Unofficial site of group TATU


Unofficial forum of group TATU
Go Back   Unofficial forum of group TATU General Forum Politics and Science


Nuclear facilities


ReplyPost New Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 15-01-2006, 00:10   #41
xmad xmad is offline
**?!**
 
xmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sweden
Age: 41
Posts: 505

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
So you have a different opinion?
Was not clear my idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
I wouldn't go that far but they sure aren't considered equal in that sociaty. Not that this is anything unusual in middle-eastern cultures.
As I've said so many times, in Iran so many things are forbidden.but it isnt what we can call Iran culture.People do not want those stupid rules but they have no other chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
We're straying off-topic here, though. We were talking about Iran's nuclear facilities and their right in having it I believe.
I agree with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
Your nationality doesn't give you a final say on things even if you're only one here that is actually Iranian.
It gives as long as I know what you are saying is not right.
~~~~~~~~~~~
We're all mad in our own way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 00:14   #42
simon simon is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: England
Posts: 401

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
Well, if we had prevented North Korea, Pakistan, and Israel from having nuclear capabilities, then it would be reasonable (even logical) to prevent Iran from having them as well, but we didn't, those 3 countries have nuclear capabilities (including North Korea which has a total nutcase as an absolute leader). So if those countries can have them, so can Iran, there is no reason to target Iran and only Iran.
So youre argument is that since North Korea's nutcase leader secretly acquired the Bomb (from Pakistan, who secretly got it from China, who got it from Russia) it's blatantly unfair and discriminatory to prevent Iran's nutcase leader from getting it too? Yes, why not let every nutcase leader have the Bomb? It would be inconsistent not to. What possible harm can it do? Yes, Ahmedinejad has threatened to wipe out Israel, but that's a trivial detail compared to the important principle at stake here - that every nutcase leader should be allowed to have nuclear weapons.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 00:18   #43
xmad xmad is offline
**?!**
 
xmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sweden
Age: 41
Posts: 505

I agree with what Amber said.
But did Iran say we want nuclear weapons?
They say we want nuclear energy.
~~~~~~~~~~~
We're all mad in our own way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 01:40   #44
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
I'm sure. And Sadam said he wanted to "liberate" Kuwait.
It's not really what they SAID that matters. It's what they're capable of doing with the technology once they master it. Just having the potential to build an A-bomb is a powerful bargaining chip on it's own. Not to mention the official stand-point of Teheran for 18 years was that they don't research nuclear energy to bulild nuclear weapons, only to be proven wrong 3 years ago, when initial plans for a bomb were found.

I mean what did you expect them to say? "Yes we will of course build an atomic bomb and drop it on Tel Aviv" *accompany that with an evil laugh*
~~~~~~~~~~~
freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 01:41   #45
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
The Dream is Over, :~(
 
PowerPuff Grrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 682

Doesn't matter either way, the West cannot do anything about it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 01:58   #46
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
Doesn't matter either way, the West cannot do anything about it.
This just bolds another problem of international politics: UN is a totally outdated and inefficient institution. Cases like this were one of the reasons UN was established in teh first place: to directly or indirectly force a country that could pose a threat to peace or destabilize the area. Most military actions tend to be an act of a sole superpower chasing it's own interests (USSR in Afghanistan, Vietnam or USA in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq...), rather than a case of a clear consensus between all the nations of the world to take actions against a country. The only such case that I can remember was operation Desert Storm in Iraq.
~~~~~~~~~~~
freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 01:59   #47
simon simon is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: England
Posts: 401

The crisis was precipitated when it was discovered that Iran had been lying to the IAEA about its nuclear activities for 18 years. Then it was discovered that they had instruction manuals from Pakistan on how to build a nuclear bomb - they said they'd been received by mistake. The EU finally gave up on negotiations when Iran turned down a Russian offer to enrich their nuclear fuel for them. Enrichment is crucial. You enrich uranium slightly to make nuclear fuel. You enrich it to 99% to make a nuclear bomb. Why does Iran think it so vital to do their own enrichment?
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 04:51   #48
Rachel Rachel is offline
Ice_Cream
 
Rachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ипсщич, Суффолк, УК
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,832

Send a message via ICQ to Rachel Send a message via AIM to Rachel Send a message via MSN to Rachel Send a message via Yahoo to Rachel Send a message via Skype™ to Rachel
Offtop:
I guess Iran better be careful or the USA will drop some missiles somewhere in Iran like they did in Pakistan which killed 18 people and then claim Zawahiri was hiding there somewhere.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Tatutaty: "Horny Rachel is her name. Masturbating is her game. Fucking, sucking, licking too. Wouldn't you like some Rachel screw? *batteries not included*"

PuddleQueen | Rachel | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ rm6405@hotmail.com ]

My music playlist on Last.fm
  Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2006, 13:02   #49
xmad xmad is offline
**?!**
 
xmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sweden
Age: 41
Posts: 505

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
It's not really what they SAID that matters. It's what they're capable of doing with the technology once they master it.
Can you really judge?
as you see :
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
the West cannot do anything about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
Offtop:
I guess Iran better be careful or the USA will drop some missiles somewhere in Iran like they did in Pakistan which killed 18 people and then claim Zawahiri was hiding there somewhere.
Offtop:

The USA and Iran both of them are crazy,lets see what will happen.
~~~~~~~~~~~
We're all mad in our own way.

Last edited by xmad; 15-01-2006 at 15:00.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2006, 01:50   #50
simon simon is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: England
Posts: 401

Israel could bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. They're worried that Iran could have usable nuclear devices within months. It probably wouldn't stop Iran getting the bomb eventually, but it would delay them a long time. Iran would retaliate with terrorism against Israel, but after Ahmedinejad's call to wipe Israel off the map, they don't want to take chances.

Last edited by simon; 16-01-2006 at 02:10.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2006, 02:23   #51
haku haku is offline
iMod
 
haku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Normandie
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,851

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
Iran would retaliate with terrorism against Israel
Bombing Iran's nuclear facilities would be an act of war, therefore whatever Iran would do to Israel in retaliation would not be terrorism, just a counter attack to an act of war.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2006, 13:22   #52
marina marina is offline
Re-Offender
 
marina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shanghai , China
Posts: 2,103

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
therefore whatever Iran would do to Israel in retaliation would not be terrorism, just a counter attack to an act of war.
If worse come to worse they can all well, as Reagan said, make sure they have enough shovels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2006, 22:50   #53
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,493

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmad
Can you really judge?
as you see :


The USA and Iran both of them are crazy,lets see what will happen. [/off]
The difference being that Iran is like that temporarily while the US is permanently. In fact they're the biggest disruptors/protectors of world peace. They disrupt peace in the first place to re-establish it later ( in their own terms of course, and according to the value of the dollar ).
And not to forget that the biggest threat to peace that our world is facing in the last 50+ years is the West's own creation. ( Israel )

Quote:
Israel could bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. They're worried that Iran could have usable nuclear devices within months. It probably wouldn't stop Iran getting the bomb eventually, but it would delay them a long time. Iran would retaliate with terrorism against Israel, but after Ahmedinejad's call to wipe Israel off the map, they don't want to take
chances.
That would be a picnic for the "allied forces" . Because Israel can retaliate on its own with its own nukes without the help of the U.S. And I doubt that the other Arab nations/Europeans would react to it other than condemning the move. ( as they usually do ). More innocent people will die for nothing and Dick Cheney will take the responsibility of rebuilding and remodernising Iran

Quote:
Bombing Iran's nuclear facilities would be an act of war, therefore whatever Iran would do to Israel in retaliation would not be terrorism, just a counter attack to an act of war.
It depends who does it. If the US does it, its an act of peace not war
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 00:48   #54
simon simon is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: England
Posts: 401

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
Bombing Iran's nuclear facilities would be an act of war, therefore whatever Iran would do to Israel in retaliation would not be terrorism, just a counter attack to an act of war.
Get real. Targeting civilians is terrorism. The Iranian president has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and you don't think Israel has the right to try to stop him getting nuclear weapons? You would instead support Iran retaliating by getting Hamas to say blow up a school full of Jewish children? Maybe not a school? Perhaps a disco? Or a wedding party? Military targets like that are what Hamas usually goes for.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 00:57   #55
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,493

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
Get real. Targeting civilians is terrorism. The Iranian president has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and you don't think Israel has the right to try to stop him getting nuclear weapons? You would instead support Iran retaliating by getting Hamas to say blow up a school full of Jewish children? Maybe not a school? Perhaps a disco? Or a wedding party? Military targets like that are what Hamas usually goes for.
No I don't think they have the right to stop him. By the same analogy I should find you in the street and assault you because I don't like what you say.
How about blowing up a hospital or a shopping centre? I'm sure the Iranian president can control not only Hamas but Al Quada and Osama Bin Laden himself. And yeah, that's it , order then to blow up Israel to pieces.
Now, that I think about it, we should stop them yesterday. Lets throw a few bombs and we can check about the weapons of mass destruction later.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 01:03   #56
simon simon is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: England
Posts: 401

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
And not to forget that the biggest threat to peace that our world is facing in the last 50+ years is the West's own creation. ( Israel )
So you think Israel was behind the Cold War? The Vietnam War? The Cambodian genocide? The Afghan War? The Gulf War? The Bosnian war? The Rwandan genocide? The genocide happening today in Darfur? All those events have killed more people than all the Arab-Israeli wars put together. But it's more fun to demonise the Jews, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
That would be a picnic for the "allied forces" . Because Israel can retaliate on its own with its own nukes without the help of the U.S. And I doubt that the other Arab nations/Europeans would react to it other than condemning the move. ( as they usually do ). More innocent people will die for nothing and Dick Cheney will take the responsibility of rebuilding and remodernising Iran
Israel would try to take out the Iranian nuclear programme with conventional weapons, not nuclear ones. Rather like they took out Saddam's nuclear programme in 1981. The world condemned them for that too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 01:13   #57
simon simon is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: England
Posts: 401

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
No I don't think they have the right to stop him. By the same analogy I should find you in the street and assault you because I don't like what you say.
If you say you want to kill me I have the right to try to disarm you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
How about blowing up a hospital or a shopping centre?
Hamas has blown up shopping centres too, like discos and wedding parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
I'm sure the Iranian president can control not only Hamas but Al Quada and Osama Bin Laden himself. And yeah, that's it , order then to blow up Israel to pieces.
Iran supports Hamas and give it money, whereas Iran and Al Qaeda are enemies. The fact you find the idea that Iran has influence over Hamas funny reveals your massive ignorance of Middle Eastern politics.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 01:26   #58
haku haku is offline
iMod
 
haku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Normandie
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,851

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
Get real. Targeting civilians is terrorism. The Iranian president has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and you don't think Israel has the right to try to stop him getting nuclear weapons? You would instead support Iran retaliating by getting Hamas to say blow up a school full of Jewish children? Maybe not a school? Perhaps a disco? Or a wedding party? Military targets like that are what Hamas usually goes for.
Well, Iran's nuclear facilities are also civilian facilities, Israel would be killing civilians too if it destroyed those facilities. Israel has no rights whatsoever to destroy industrial facilities in another country, Iran is a sovereign country and Israel has no saying in what Iran does within its borders.

And Israel is just as careless about its targets as the Hamas, the difference is that when Israel attacks Palestinians, it's called an 'assassination' with some 'colateral damages'. The reality is that Israel does not hesitate to launch a missile from an helicopter just to kill *one* person in a Palestinian street, it doesn't care if 20 other people die in the explosion, no more than the Hamas cares who is killed in one of its attacks, both sides have plenty of blood on their hands.

Recreating Israel 2000 years after its destruction was an historical mistake, one that we've been paying with 50 years of terrorism. Israel was artificially recreated on Arab lands, that land was stolen to Arabs, tenths of thousands of Arabs who had been living there for centuries were expelled (and hundreds were killed) to make room for those new Jewish immigrants. Arabs have always rightfully seen this as a profound injustice, and it is that injustice which is the root of fundamentalism and terrorism.

If Israel had not been recreated, if Arabs had not violently been robbed of their lands, the Middle East would be a relatively peaceful region, Muslim extremism would be a marginal problem, and terrorism would have no desparation to thrive upon.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 02:31   #59
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,493

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
If you say you want to kill me I have the right to try to disarm you.
If I say I want to kill you, even the police wouldn't do anything about it and if you try to disarm me when I don't have a weapon and you hurt me I can sue you and you can end up in jail. So it's not quite the same thing, is it? furthermore you wouldn't even know I told the truth if I said to you I'll get a gun tomorrow and kill you. There's no evidence or real intent just my words.
Not to mention that the Iran president did not not even say that all Israeli's should be killed. It's like me saying, "I have some petrol at home I'll get it tomorrow and go and burn your house". Then you'd try to hunt me down on the basis of me saying that? Or try to protect youself? Well, the Irani didn't even say that either, it's like he said that "your house deserves to be burned", because he said the Israel should be wiped off the map, correct? That's the equivalent of what he said. We got there at the end
That's what you're proposing the U.S ahould be doing. Hunting me down = the cowboy way. Protecting youself = diplomacy. I guess you prefer strict measures. So maybe next time you get into a row with somebody for whatever reason, you'd take the law into your own hands, right? It's not a civilised way though.



Quote:
Hamas has blown up shopping centres too, like discos and wedding parties.
It's true, but it's not controlled by the Irani government. An air fighter though, indirectly controlled by GW Bush, blew a house and killed 18 innocent people the other day in Pakistan. And wasn't even considered an act of aggression. Oh, sorry, wrong intelligence



Quote:
Iran supports Hamas and give it money, whereas Iran and Al Qaeda are enemies. The fact you find the idea that Iran has influence over Hamas funny reveals your massive ignorance of Middle Eastern politics.
might have influence over Hamas in the way Yassir Arafat had influence over Hamas. Which is not much of an influence, as Arafat could not control them.

Last edited by spyretto; 18-01-2006 at 02:44.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2006, 02:51   #60
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,493

Quote:
Recreating Israel 2000 years after its destruction was an historical mistake, one that we've been paying with 50 years of terrorism. Israel was artificially recreated on Arab lands, that land was stolen to Arabs, tenths of thousands of Arabs who had been living there for centuries were expelled (and hundreds were killed) to make room for those new Jewish immigrants. Arabs have always rightfully seen this as a profound injustice, and it is that injustice which is the root of fundamentalism and terrorism.
Absolutely. Because the West promised a haven for the Jewish after the holocaust, they had to go into the lion's nest and take it from the other Arab countries. The creation of the Israeli country was forced, not conceded. And what about the Palestinians? Is that fair to them? to live under constant threat and struggle?
And the reason for all that? Not because the Jewish suffered but because they control global commerce, and they're ruthless in doing so. It's always about their fucking money.
Hitler wanted to get rid of them for the same reason as well. All the bullshit about the Aryan race was, well...bullshit... and he was VERY aware of that.

Quote:
If Israel had not been recreated, if Arabs had not violently been robbed of their lands, the Middle East would be a relatively peaceful region, Muslim extremism would be a marginal problem, and terrorism would have no desparation to thrive upon.
Agreed. The Arab people are A LOT more sophisticated and civilised that the West takes them for. But when you're constantly faced with injustice you have to resort to whatever means can be affective.

Last edited by spyretto; 18-01-2006 at 03:02.
  Reply With Quote
ReplyPost New Thread

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
USA - General discussion (Part 1) Kate Politics and Science 1013 26-01-2007 13:01
Catastrophy in Asia QueenBee Politics and Science 39 26-01-2005 00:26



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:18.




© 2001-2008 Unofficial site of group TATU

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.