Pop quiz, kiddies!

[Kappa]

Who said this, about homosexual people who don't "naturally reproduce"?

Our planet is already over populated. You have to admit that we don't need people on earth who are just taking up space. That's a bad way to put it, but that's how it is. Morals are the only thing in the way...

a) Hitler
b) _______ <<< Put your favorite dictator in here
c) Pinochet
d) None of the above

Now, for the real question: is someone in here stupid enough to believe in this statement?

Let me state my beliefs and status: I am homosexual because I love women and am a woman myself. I am pro-choice, because I believe in a woman's decision to keep or abort a baby. I am, presently, a teenager who plans to have only one or two children, even tho' "I present homosexuality". And lastly, I believe that this statement completely overrules itself: if we don't need homosexual people to reproduce, the straight people left might as well use the space left to overcrowd our poor planet, no?

Last of everything, I am very pissed off. If someone in here has a remedy for homosexuality, please come here and show me how to be cured. If homosexuality was a state of mind, we could easily be manipulated to love this or love that.

One more thing that I am purposedly adding to raise the forum in arms. The same person from whom I read the statement I posted, said we homosexuals and bisexuals are the same than zoophiles and paedophiles.

My patience towards straight people is seriously wearing thin.

[freddie]

Originally posted by darje
[/b]My patience towards straight people is seriously wearing thin. [/b]

Sis this is just as prejudiced as the above posted statement about homosexuals "taking to much space". This is not a common opinion of MAJORITY of straight ppl. As ridiculous as this might sound... there are HOMOSEXUALS AND BISEXUALS who are homophobic as well... at least some of them who are in denial. I'm sure you could find one or two who'd come up with similar statement.
So what I'm trying to say is that homophobia is just another example of intolerace that can be seen in ppl of all walks of life and to just slander straight ppl like that is not any more right then being homophobic. People are people, yes?

Otherwise I've written all I thought about this subject here.

[Kate]

freddie, thanks for the "privacy" talk before.

[freddie]

Originally posted by katbeidar
freddie, thanks for the "privacy" talk before.

You said basicly the same things before in the 3 way conversation as well Kate. You just exaggerated your views a bit later. But they are still your views aren't they?

[QueenBee]

Umm.. I don't know what to say. I believe there is space for everybody. Of course we would want bad people like dictators to disappear, since they aren't needed, at least from our point of view. I know many people who LOVE Saddam Hussein so it all depends on what kind of situation you're in. I'm not saying Hitler was free to do what he wanted, but there were people who thought he was a genius, so their opinion is totally different. There is no wrong or right in these discussions, everybody thinks differently.

I don't believe homosexuals take up space. That's just insane if you ask me! You are free to love whoever you want. Everybody doesn't need to have children, and besides, there are many homeless children or those that were left for adoption because the straight people who gave birth to them didn't want them.

*No idea where she is going*

Many straight people are not like that at all, Darje. I'm open-minded, I don't even believe there is such thing as "those people" even if they all thought the same thing. Everybody is different, every gay person is an individual, and so is a straight person. Don't say that "My patience for STRAIGHT people is wearing thin", because only SOME straight people are homophobic. That's like saying "Gay people are like this.." or "Black people are like that.." That is completely unfair and stupid to say. In my school you hear "Fag!" in the corridors everyday, but there are many intelligent people here who accept homosexuality even though they're straight. People don't have any right to judge anybody because of their sexual orientation. I am straight, am I against homosexuality? No way. So why did you say that you're losing patience with the straight people because they are against homosexuality?

I don't think the planet will be overcrowded anytime soon! Even if EVERYBODY was straight and had alot of children, the earth would be far away from overpopulated. Why? Because people die every single day, in war, because of diseases, murders, suicide.. People are born and killed everyday. Just commenting on what you said about straight people overcrowding the earth if there would be no gay people. If you don't want to overcrowd the earth you don't need to use gay people to prevent births! That was a joke...

Hmm, I seriously don't know where I'm going with this.. Just speculating about life a little. There's no such thing as taking up space in my opinion. The earth is big and life gives you alot of opportunities, and besides, if gay people aren't needed, are STRAIGHT people needed? Puh-lease! What are we doing here anyway? What kind of purpose is there? NONE! We just live here and die here.. and that's the end of that story! But maybe God has something in mind for us, I don't know..

*Wanders off*

[Kappa]

QueenBee, honest to the bone, it's not your kind of straight people I'm starting to be unpatient to. Kate said what I posted up there: what I want to know is, what the FUCK did I do, what the hell did my kind do to her so that she believes we're not as worthy as her straight friends, to be respected and have our place in earth?

All her "culture" just goes down the drain when she reveals how biggoted she actually is.

[QueenBee]

darje, well, I don't know anything about the situation between you and Kate.. And I don't want to get involved in it either, it's none of my business, it's a private affair, and you two will most likely try to sort it out in private (which I hope you do).

I don't know why anybody would feel bad against you. In my eyes you're an amazing person and I love you very much. As they say, people may be afraid and avoid what they do not know. But I don't know anything about Kate's case, so I'm not judging her.

Sorry if I offended anyone. Good luck with sorting the situation out.

[Kappa]

QueenBee, I've given up trying to sort it out with her privately. It's just impossible to jam some tolerance into that hard skull of hers. I just hope she learns on her own.

[russkayatatu]

I don't know what sort of conversations took place between katbeidar, freddie, and darje but I wish that they'd been kept in private :/

darje, I don't think it's a question of stupidity. The idea that some people are unworthy of life ( or at least less worthy than others) is an ancient one that has repeated itself in human societies over and over. That all human beings are equally deserving of life is relatively new. Btw it's interesting, the way everything keeps expanding to break down borders between states, countries, races, genders, etc. - I wonder what else will be included into the "us" paradigm in the future.

What you quoted sounds like Raskolnikov to me He killed an old, miserly woman because he reasoned that he needed the money more than she did, she who was just 'taking up space', did nothing for anybody, was petty and unpleasant. There's always great responsibility in deciding for other people, and whenever you have organized government there are those kind of decisions, sometimes, somewhere.

QueenBee, unfortunately, overpopulation is a big problem. On October 12, 1999 the world population reached 6 billion, and is continuing to grow at a rate of 1.4% - i.e., 200,000 people each day or the equivalent of a large city a week. Population grows exponentially, which means that people born in 1950 were the first to see the human population double in their lifetime, from 2.5 billion to over 6 billion now. During the 20th century more people were added to the world than the in all of previous human history. It seems likely that world population will peak between 9 and 10 billion; with intensified population control efforts, hopefully closer to 9 than 10. As things stand now, shortages of food by that point seem inevitable, as Edward Wilson wrote in his book The Future of Life. For all those people to consume on the level of the United States of America we'd need four more earths.

Things aren't hopeless, but it's a grim picture, although fighting wastefulness and uncontrol by killing off or cracking down against 'non-useful' members of society sounds like a terrible idea to me. What sort of solution is that?

Of course it's like the Nazis' euthanasia programs, and I don't agree at all. The idea turns my stomach. But sometimes, if someone perceives the problem as imminent and devastating -I don't know, if there were only food for half the people on the world, maybe, people might panic and decide in lieu of a better solution, there may have to be the question of who lives and who dies ... right now I'd bet that the 'elite' would be the lucky ones, the people with money, creditentials, maybe high test scores. Someone else may consider the 'elite' to be the ones that most closely fit the society's norm, don't have prison records, for example.

I wouldn't want to make any kind of decision like this, based on whatever ideas of 'just taking up space' I might have. In the end it's simply prejudice - at the least, and hatred at its worst. I don't think morals are just things that 'get in the way.' I think anyone who thinks that way is bold, and there are great things in boldness, but it's cruelty too. Empathy is more powerful; maybe it's my own prejudice, but I don't think destroying people is likely to solve any problem or take us very far.

I don't know what else to say. I'm sorry we're still discussing these kind of topics. It's like children, running to mom, 'see what horrible things she said, punish her, tell her she can't say that, it's not fair, ow mommy, she's hurting me.' I'm sorry, darje, but I don't think 'purposely ... rais[ing] the forum up in arms' is a worthy goal. Prejudice is always disturbing, especially when it takes a violent turn as implied in what you quoted, but ... ehh ... I don't know, but I wish I hadn't opened this thread, just to get the latest of what seems to be an ongoing dispute.

[QueenBee]

russkayatatu, wow I feel so stupid now.. There are too many people in some places, but what I meant was, if there were no gay people those damn awful straight people wouldn't ruin the world.. If you understand me.. I still stick to my opinion, nothing wrong with homosexuality.. I thought that was never an issue here, in a forum where most of the people are gay/bisexual.

[russkayatatu]

QueenBee, no, I understand ... and agree with what you wrote Earth is overpopulated, but LoL, I didn't mean to say it's the fault of straight people The birth rate should be around 2 children per woman for there to be zero growth. In the West it's more or less around there, or lower, and in developing nations it's much higher. If the rate dropped to 2 children per woman immediately the population would top off at 7.3 billion or so. But that number's 'improbably low'; you can't bring the boom down all at once.

Edward Wilson writes well, and I like what he has to say, in this book and others, so if anyone is interested in what's likely to happen, what the problems are, what we should do, I recommend it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with homosexuality either, and sorry if I wasn't clear about the big bad straight people overpopulating the planet ...

[Bitty2002]

Has no one thought of the idea that maybe we aren't useless and taking up space...but rather adding our intellect and often higher IQ's and better economic status to improve the world, while NOT reproducing like these straight people who have 8 children by the time they are 24? (Not generalizing about straight people, but specific people who embody those attributes). We are useless-- the world is over populated? Maybe we are, instead, the solution to over-population. To repeat, we can add our intellect and ability to improve the world NOW, without adding to the over-population of the future.

Sure most gay lifetime partners will end up having one or two or more kids, but it is controlled. There is no fear of accidental pregnancies. Not to mention, remember gay people are the reason for AIDS. We are the savors and solution bringers to over-population, by spreading a disease, yay! Go gay people. Kill all these excess people! *end of highly sarcastic tone*

[haku]

Well, technically i'm straight, and my IQ is pretty low i'm sure. But i don't intend to have any kids (transmitting my genes to a child would be so unfair), i'm doing what i can to decrease the population.

[goku]

Ok. Everyone read The Wanting Seed by Anthony Burgess (also wrote A Clockwork Orange). It deals basically with the same concepts. Only in his world, homosexuals are treated highest in the social class, because they aren't adding to the population. It also shows how nothing goes to waste, and touches on concepts that might occur in the future (and it was written in the 60s!). Check it out. You might like it.

[Bitty2002]

goku, interesting! Thank you! Although Clockwork orange gave me nightmares, lol. The the author is clearly creative beyond words.

[spyretto]

Stop fighting kiddos. We all know that you love each other

The statement is a contradiction in terms and makes no sense to me.

[Kate]

I thought for a long time whether I should reply to this thread. Cuz I don't want to cause another huge forum quarrel.

What happened between me and Darje is unclear even to me. Call me stupid.

She asked me what I though about homosexuals. I told her I am fine with them. But then she started asking me "honestly? honestly?", and I told her honestly that I feel wierd towards homosexuals. I have every right to be.

I feel wierd because I don't understand how they feel, I never will understand how they feel. I can't just try to understand, as I will never be a homosexual. And it is unfair to ask me to try harder. Why don't homosexuals look at themselves through my eyes? I see people who are odd in their sexuality. And most of the time humans are repulsed by odd things.

I respect homosexuals because most of them have to go against people like me. And I myself won't be able to that.

But I can't help being the way I am. I honestly, honesly feel wierd about homosexuals.

Like, I can totally talk to them on MSN. Be friendly with them, when I dont' think about the fact that they are homosexuals.

Why don't the ones who are homosexuals here try to understand my views for once? Instead of forcing your views on me.

And Darje, I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I feel like I feel about homosexuals, just like you feel towards women when you yourself are a woman. We both an't help it. So, let's just leave it at that and move on.

[teeny]

Originally posted by darje
Now, for the real question: is someone in here stupid enough to believe in this statement?

Must be pretty stupid, because I don't even know what the real question is about
I better read this again in the morning. Perhaps I'll understand it better by then.
Thought pop quizzes were normally pretty easy ones to answer and you just had to answer as quick as possible to score a point

[Kappa]

katbeidar, I see no reason to either forgive you or tell you you're right. I've stood your thoughts way too long. You've been offensive and right out biggotted. But desiring me and my kind are wiped off earth just because we don't mean to have the same reproductive goals the people with your sexuality (and at that, not even all of them) do, is over the boundries of homophobia; it's plainly hateful.

spyretto, thank you. You understood the same I did. -_-

russkayatatu, think whatever you want. I want it to be put in clear that someone in this forum believes that homosexuals aren't worthy of being treated humanly. Just that.

[shizzo]

If homosexuality was a state of mind, we could easily be
manipulated to love this or love that.

Heh. You mean it's not a "choice" that's made, something that
I can't actually switch? I'll be like this 'til I die?
Damnit. I wanted kids someday!
All my paternal instincts, rendered defunct.

[Trying to get people to "understand" views from each side
asks people to not only think outside their own perspective,
but also to be logical. And, to be blunt, that isn't exactly a
fortй common to everybody. :P]

I think that orientation is flexible. I doubt that alternative
sexualities are "unnatural", and I don't expect everybody to
think the same as I do about this topic. And at the same time,
I realize that human interaction causes differences in opinion,
reaction, mental process... and I also know that a lot of people
are just dense in the head and can't be bothered with logic
and reason. :P