Major U.S. Chain Store Sued Over CD Lyrics

Mossopp · 11-12-2004, 17:23

I read this on MSN News. It's so petty and ridiculous that I had to laugh.

Wal-Mart Sued Over Evanescence CD Lyrics

Wal-Mart Stores Inc., which promotes itself as a seller of clean music, deceived customers by stocking compact discs by the rock group Evanescence that contain the f-word, a lawsuit claims.
The hit group's latest CD and DVD, "Anywhere But Home," don't carry parental advisory labels alerting potential buyers to the obscenity. If they did, Wal-Mart wouldn't carry them, according to the retailer's policy.
But the lawsuit claims Wal-Mart knew about the explicit lyrics in the song, "Thoughtless," because it censored the word in a free sample available on its Web site and in its stores.
The complaint, filed Thursday in Washington County Circuit Court, seeks an order requiring Wal-Mart to either censor or remove the music from its Maryland stores.
It also seeks damages of up to $74,500 for each of the thousands of people who bought the music at Wal-Marts in Maryland.
"I don't want any other families to get this, expecting it to be clean. It needs to be removed from the shelves to prevent other children from hearing it," said plaintiff Trevin Skeens of Brownsville.
Skeens said he and his wife, Melanie, let their daughter buy the music for her 13th birthday and were shocked when they played it in their car while driving home.
Wal-Mart, of Bentonville, Ark., has no immediate plans to pull the CDs from its shelves, spokesman Guy Whitcomb told The (Hagerstown) Herald-Mail. He said the company will investigate the allegations. No hearing dates have been set.
"While Wal-Mart sets high standards, it would not be possible to eliminate every image, word or topic that an individual might find objectionable," Whitcomb told the newspaper.
He told the Herald-Mail that the song sample online was censored by Walmart.com, a separate division of Wal-Mart.
Whitcomb didn't return telephone calls Friday from The Associated Press.
The lawsuit also names as defendants Wind-up Records LLC, the New York-based company that recorded the music and decided not to apply parental-advisory stickers; and distributor BMG Entertainment, a subsidiary of Sony BMG Music Entertainment, of New York.
Sony BMG declined to comment on the lawsuit. Wind-up didn't return calls from the AP.
The Skeens' lawyer, Jon D. Pels of Bethesda, said he aims to "take this case national, even if that means going state by state."
He dismissed Whitcomb's suggestion that Wal-Mart stores didn't know about the censored version of the song. "They are a multimillion-dollar corporation and they certainly can communicate among their various entities," he said.

It's good to know that, even through all the turmoil and unrest going on in this world today, people haven't lost sight of what's important. It's not the threat of war, hunger, poverty, drugs or even gun violence that's the issue in America right now. No, the real issue at hand here is that under no circumstances should any 13 year-old girls be allowed to buy a CD which features 2 (yes, there were only 2) uses of "the f-word"!
It's no wonder society is going to hell when Amy Lee can't keep her language clean!

QueenBee · 11-12-2004, 17:44

The sad thing is that I'm not surprised.

Unplugged · 11-12-2004, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenBee

The sad thing is that I'm not surprised.

Me neither. After sueing and fining TV networks for showing a nipple, everything is possible in that country

spyretto · 11-12-2004, 20:38

I think the lawsuit is technically right and ethical. If they're required to have a sticker to say " Parental advisory: explicit lyrics" and they didn't include it, then the lawsuit is right.

My opinion on the whole parental advisory issue is a whole different matter. It's America we're talking about...

We're not all living in America after all

Mossopp · 12-12-2004, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyretto

I think the lawsuit is technically right and ethical. If they're required to have a sticker to say " Parental advisory: explicit lyrics" and they didn't include it, then the lawsuit is right.

Do you own the CD in question? Because I do and Amy only says the word "fuck" twice, and she says it so fast that you can barely make it out.
'Anywhere But Home' is a live CD and a pretty poor one at that. You can barely make out the lyrics for the incessant crowd noise in the background.
Anyway, 'Thoughtless' (the song in question) isn't even an Evanescence track - it was written by Korn several years ago. Evanescence shouldn't be copping the shit for this - it should be Korn.
More to the point, why should anyone be copping any shit for this? It's a word - one stupid word - that everyone has heard so many times in their life that it no longer holds any meaning, let alone causes offence!
It's rock music. It's not watered down for the masses and sanitised for the kiddies. If Amy Lee wants to say "fuck" then let her!
I want to know why everyone is fussing over 2 uses of the "f-word" on the CD when the exploits and shennanigans on the accompanying DVD are far worse. None of it bothers me - in fact I found it fucking hilarious! - but why aren't the extreme right up in arms about Amy and Co defacing a Bible, trashing hotels, cross-dressing, getting shit-faced on jello-shots and just generally being a public nuisance? Surely that's worse than saying "fuck" a couple of times?
And is any of it really worth $74,500? I don't think so.

spyretto · 12-12-2004, 01:05

I don't own the CD in question, but I know that at times they put warning stickers where there's only a minimum amount of swearing and at other times they forget to label clearly more "obsence" material as you very well pointed out...maybe they only target the most popular records -like Evanescence's - or maybe the small shop owners take the stickers away? Maybe some decision makers are narrowminded bigots and others are not? They're not very consistent, in any case.

Yeah, it's all rock n' roll but I wouldn't quite go with your statement about letting anything go - if that's your statement

Do Evanescence have a new album? I think I saw something on TV...is it as good?

Mossopp · 12-12-2004, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyretto

Do Evanescence have a new album? I think I saw something on TV...is it as good?

'Anywhere But Home' is the new album, although technically it's not "new". It's a live recording of the bands concert at The Zenith in Paris during the 'Fallen' World Tour. There are a few lesser known tracks on it including 'Farther Away', 'Breath No More', 'Missing' and the Korn cover 'Thoughtless'. Apart from these it's just the same old same old tracks from the 'Fallen' album that have already been played to death.
'Anywhere But Home' is only worth buying for the DVD that comes with it. The CD may be rather disappointing but the DVD is awesome. As well as having the entire Zenith concert presented in 5.1 surround sound and anamorphic widescreen, it also includes all of the bands videos to date and over an hour of behind the scenes footage and interviews.
It's the behind the scenes stuff that makes the whole thing worth buying. Ever wondered what it'd be like to see Amy and the rest of Evanescence dress up in gorrilla costumes and destroy everything they come into contact with? Probably not. But it's one hell of a funny sight, I can assure you! The whole DVD is filled with crazy stuff like that. I can't remember the last time I laughed so hard!
"My clothes smell like an ass-crack!!!"

ypsidan04 · 15-12-2004, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

I read this on MSN News. It's so petty and ridiculous that I had to laugh.

[size=1]Wal-Mart Sued Over Evanescence CD Lyrics

Yeah, and I don't give a shit. About this stupidness or Walmart in general. I don't care, that's a great song.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyretto

I think the lawsuit is technically right and ethical. If they're required to have a sticker to say " Parental advisory: explicit lyrics" and they didn't include it, then the lawsuit is right.

You don't put a sticker on a CD that has two instances out of 13 or 14 songs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

Do you own the CD in question? Because I do and Amy only says the word "fuck" twice, and she says it so fast that you can barely make it out.

I'll tell you what, when I heard that song live in July, I didn't pick it up. I wasn't until the first time I heard a recording of it online that I realized those words were in there. So you're right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

'Anywhere But Home' is a live CD and a pretty poor one at that. You can barely make out the lyrics for the incessant crowd noise in the background.

I don't think it's that bad.

Quote:

I want to know why everyone is fussing over 2 uses of the "f-word" on the CD when the exploits and shennanigans on the accompanying DVD are far worse. None of it bothers me - in fact I found it fucking hilarious! - but why aren't the extreme right up in arms about Amy and Co defacing a Bible, trashing hotels, cross-dressing, getting shit-faced on jello-shots and just generally being a public nuisance? Surely that's worse than saying "fuck" a couple of times?

I can't call you a liar.

QueenBee · 15-12-2004, 23:42

Well, if you look at it from another point of view it's still fair, because if you need to put a sticker where there are explicit words, then you should do it nomatter how many words there are in the first place.

I still find it stupid, though. Censorship suxxxx!!!111

thegurgi · 16-12-2004, 01:01

Well, maybe you need to understand the type of people who SHOP at wal-mart. It's mostly families with children and seniors. It's not the kind of place that would even need to sell these things. Plus, and i've seen this with my own eyes and done it, a child finds a cd and shows it to their parents and they either say yes or no, and those little labels help a lot. Cause trust me, this isn't an issue for teenagers or non-children bearing adults, but for parents , and in which case i think this is perfectly understandable for there to be such a label. This isn't censorship this is a warning label ... they can still have those words... Wal-Mart just won't sell it, cause they don't need that kind of stuff, it's a family and convience store not a record store

coolasfcuk · 16-12-2004, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

It's rock music. It's not watered down for the masses and sanitised for the kiddies. If Amy Lee wants to say "fuck" then let her!

And WHO isnt letting her to say the word 'FUCK'???

She can say 'fuck, fuck, fuck" all she wants and people wouldnt give a FUCK! This isnt the issue at hand, AT ALL. The issue is simple, following simple standards reinforced by the law...and it involves Wall-mart, not amy Lee, it could've been Hubba Bubba's CD for that matter ( but definatelly not t.A.T.u.'s CD, as the lable censorded it so it wouldnt have that sticker! OMG, i cant believe you bought watered down cd for the children!)
If there is a law that says CDs which contain words like fuck should have a warning sticker at places like wall-mart (which is NOT a record store but a place where you are more likely to buy pampers for your baby), then those people have the legal right to sue! No one is telling Amy Lee to water down her music (which by the way i find shitty anyway and cant see who would want to waste their money on it) or sanitise it for the children.

spyretto · 16-12-2004, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

And WHO isnt letting her to say the word 'FUCK'???

She can say 'fuck, fuck, fuck" all she wants and people wouldnt give a FUCK! This isnt the issue at hand, AT ALL. The issue is simple, following simple standards reinforced by the law...and it involves Wall-mart, not amy Lee, it could've been Hubba Bubba's CD for that matter ( but definatelly not t.A.T.u.'s CD, as the lable censorded it so it wouldnt have that sticker! OMG, i cant believe you bought watered down cd for the children!)
If there is a law that says CDs which contain words like fuck should have a warning sticker at places like wall-mart (which is NOT a record store but a place where you are more likely to buy pampers for your baby), then those people have the legal right to sue! No one is telling Amy Lee to water down her music (which by the way i find shitty anyway and cant see who would want to waste their money on it) or sanitise it for the children.

I concur to that!! We don't need any more of that liberal BS - although I consider myself a liberal somehow

but If you want to fight the bigots you gotta do it in their own game, not crying like p****s about everything; instead to identify the problem, work out the solution, hit at the right time, never run but smile

. Small time record shop owners do that anyway.
Though I wouldn't go as far to say Amy's music is "shitty", I understand that opinion too. As they say in Greek, " about taste, pumpkin pie"; meaning that one person's "awesomeness" can be another person's "shitness". But from what I've heard so far, I wouldn't say that this album is particularly any good, and if I'm not mistaken, the guitarist and main musical force of that band has departed due to "artistic differences". I might be wrong about both the departure and the album's quality, though.

Either way, stickers on CDs are a good idea. You can buy those knowing that they're even more disturbing to conservative bigots...otherwise they'd go completely unnoticed...

coolasfcuk · 16-12-2004, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyretto

I concur to that!! We don't need any more of that liberal BS - although I consider myself a liberal somehow

but If you want to fight the bigots you gotta do it in their own game, not crying like p****s about everything; instead to identify the problem, work out the solution, hit a the right time, never run but smile

. Small time record shop owners do that anyway.

ha ha spy, i consider myself a liberal somehow as well. I was just stating simple facts. Im not exactly sure what my opinion is on those stickers, to tell you the truth, I am not even sure how they work, does every store have them or not, because as you said, small record stores, privatelly owned are not the same story as wall-mart store for pampers. Same for the major movies and their ratings in the west, I grew up in Bulgaria, where there is NO such thing as a movie rating ... and to tell you the truth I have been carded going to the movies once!!! ha ha, i just bursted out laughing.... and if you only knew for what movie 'Blair Witch broject'

... i laughed even harded when i was exiting the cinema!
Agree on how 'bigots', or anybody else for that matter, should be fought with their own game.

Mossopp · 16-12-2004, 22:35

I think certain people's negative opinion of Evanescence is skewing their views on this subject. But that's by the by.
Since the age of 4 I've been listening to all different forms of rock music and, as I'm sure everyone is aware, most rock bands aren't scared of using colourful language. So let's see, I've been listening to "explicit" lyrics for the past 18 years......... has it done me any harm? No. I mean, for Christs sake, there's a hell of a lot of worse shit out there in the world that kids are being exposed to every day. Just cos their right-wing, conservative parents wrap the kids up in cotton wool and won't let them listen to any naughty words isn't gonna help them in the real world. When I was 12 (or thereabouts) I bought a Cypress Hill album (I know, what was I thinking?

) that had a massive 'parental advisory' sticker slapped accross the front cover. My mother gave me permission to listen to it as much as I wanted as long as I never repeated any of the profanities myself. She didn't sue HMV for selling me a stupid cassette tape (this was back in the olden days when people still had tape-decks

)!
Who gives a shit if someone wants to swear? It happens and you hear it every day - the only way anyone could possibly avoid it is to go around wearing earplugs 24/7. I'm not suggesting that makes it ok, all I'm saying is that it's commonplace now so deal with it.
It's bands that have crazy right-wing/homophobic/mysoginistic/racist lyrics that should be getting stickers slapped on their CD's. Not some faux-goth band who, judging on what I've seen, are some of the nicest people one could ever hope to encounter.

coolasfcuk · 16-12-2004, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

It happens and you hear it every day - the only way anyone could possibly avoid it is to go around wearing earplugs 24/7. I'm not suggesting that makes it ok, all I'm saying is that it's commonplace now so deal with it.

If someone's view on the subject is screwed, it is definatelly not mine

Lets see, the parents that are suing are on the very right, and you are on the very left ... lets just say that middle ground is the best place to be.

Of course i dont aprove of parents who try to shield their kids from all 'bad', believe me, ive met such people since ive lived in America. But you cant expect everyone to live the same way. 'Its a common place so deal with it' is such a 2D way of giving answer to the subject, it is just the same as them .. 'we shouldnt hear it, so deal with it!'
All of this is so culture related anyway. You also come from a western Euro country.... so your mom let you get the tape. should she get an award?

, well there are lots of American moms that would do the same. And if we start comparing like this, like I said, where i grew up there is NO such thing of censoring bad words or advisory stickers AT ALL, even today as far as i know.

What this is about Wal-Mart deceiving the customers, it should have a sticker and it didnt. Im not agreeing with the parents point of view, but they have every legal right to sue, that's all.

p.s. just as info for you, I grew up exposed to Metal Music since i was a tiny baby, and believe me, most the bands ive heard you mention would make my brother shiver, as they are what he considers 'sissy'/'commercialized' Metal wanna-bes, that said in case you want to argue with me for my music tastes.

Mossopp · 16-12-2004, 23:24

I don't want to get into a "more metal than thou" debate with anyone. That's not what this thread is about. When your brother can say without a word of a lie that he practically shook Alex Varkatzas' hand at a sold-out gig in front of a couple hundred people then I'll get into a debate about what's metal and what's not.

coolasfcuk · 17-12-2004, 00:17

I didnt know that shaking someone's hand is metal.

of course we wont have that debate, Metal means nothing to me, my memory is overburnt with it from childhood ... god, am i happy to not live in eastern europe anymore where you have to share room with your 10 years older brother, who is a gay heavy metal fan

... so, then, what about wal-mart and the fuck word?

Mossopp · 17-12-2004, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

I didnt know that shaking someone's hand is metal.

I knew you wouldn't know who Alex Varkatzas is.

Quote:

... so, then, what about wal-mart and the fuck word?

Ah, fuck Wal-mart!

coolasfcuk · 17-12-2004, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

I knew you wouldn't know who Alex Varkatzas is.

eh? I really like the way you 'conversate' ... sorry, but now i cant stop.

Knowing that the guy is frontman of some California, second stage Ozzfest band called 'Atreyu' had nothing to do with what you've said. I still wonder why shaking his hand IS metal? ... or makes you MORE metal? Are you saying that if I told you my brother had sex with Rob Halford once after a concert that he is the Metalest of the Metals?

and in this case then you would not even be qualified, as your hand shaking is nearly not a close experience as engaging in sex act with a metal legend? ....

Mossopp · 17-12-2004, 21:52

Whatever.
If you don't think meeting the lead vocallist/lyricist in one of the best up-and-coming and promising rock bands at their first sell-out show is anything special then I don't know what else to say to you. You and I are obviously very different.
I got to sing practically face-to-face with one of my idols. I'm so sorry you're not impressed.

And if your brother wants to have sex with Rob Halford then that's entirely his business.
Lame analogy, btw. *yawn*

Fuck it.

Let's get back on-topic, please.