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Old 01-05-2003, 22:20   #1
coolasfcuk coolasfcuk is offline
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Talking Slavic Languages

So, here we go, here was can discuss all the Slavic languages. Their origination and similarities/differances. Compare words, phrases, slang, ect... should be fun.

So my language is Bulgarian- belongs to the south Slavic language group, if I am not mistaken, and it uses the Cyrillic alphabet. I will add later history of the origination of this alphabet (I have posted it in short somewhere else around here before), maybe it will be interesting for people to know.
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Old 01-05-2003, 23:14   #2
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ok...

i speak croatian. i think it's also from the southern group (i'll have to check that). we use latin alphabet and i think that's the only MAJOR difference between all slavic languages. either latin or cyrilic, the languages are the pretty similar and we all can understand each other quite well
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Old 01-05-2003, 23:59   #3
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Another one from the south slavic language group. I speak Slovene and we use the alphabet as well. Our language is very similar to serbo-croatian and also slovakian in some ways. I understand quite a bit of chech and also some russian, But surprisingly polish is the least understandable to me...considering people say it's very close to Russian. I also get a felling that serbo-croatian is pretty similar to russian (much more then slovenian is). Serbs for instance also use cyrillic plus they have a lot of words like the russians.

Bulgarian is complete tabula rassa to me. I never heard anything about it. Those comments that cool made have really surprised me - I never would have thought it's similar to croatian.
Although I remember you mentioning some time back that you also (like we do), use the word "Volk" for "Wolf".

Hey guys how do you say "Sun" in your languages? Slovenian(Sonce) is pretty similar to russian (solnce), . Fuck is also quite similar - "jebati" in slovenian and I think it's something like"yebat" in russian right?
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Old 02-05-2003, 00:09   #4
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here is sunce.
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Old 02-05-2003, 02:48   #5
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sun in Bulgarian is 'slance' or 'slunce' (could be translited either way) . I will edit my message with the cyrillic spelling later, since I am at work now on a macintosh that doesnt have cyrilic. (and the 'a' in the first option or 'u' in the second, represent letter that is not present in the latin alphabet so it is not 100% translit- any bulgarian will know what it is translited like this though- but realy the sound is like... hmmm.. the only way to describe it will be to record myself at home and upload the sound file so you know what I am talking about- maybe you have it in your languages too)
fcuk in bulgarian translit is : ebati , in cyrillic spelled just like in Russian, but russians pronaunce their 'e' as something like 'ye', and they have a different letter (which we dont in Bulgarian) that is pronaunced as 'e'.
freddie I think this is a great thread- you wil be surprised how close Bulgarian is to Slovene, I am saying that just because of what I've heard from you so far, plus Bulgarian is realy really close to serbian.
About the polish- I understand some words, but not as much as serbian, macedonian, croatian, slovene (why is it called slovene and not slovenian by the way?), or russian. But czech is pretty NOT understandable for me, I think even more than polish. I do pick up on few of the words, but little. By the way- what exactly is serbo-croatian?

To keep the words coming- how about good day ? for us = dobar den in translit. If you wanna say informal hello we say zdrasti How about the other slavic languages?

Za sega tova e ! (translit for: this is it for now)
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Old 02-05-2003, 11:19   #6
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this really is a great thread:)

cool: If you have the possibility please record that sound in "slance". I'm really currious what it is.

I'm beginning to notice as well that Bulgarian is similar to Slovenian in many ways. Quite s surprise to me.

Why is it called slovene and not slovenian? Interesting question. Maybe to differentiate it from slovakian. They mix us up so many times anyway. I belive there would be a lot of confusion among non slavic folk: slovenian-slovakian

Serbo-croatian? In Slovenia we find serbian and croatian so similar that we consider them as one language. The main difference is that serbs use cyrillic characters while croatians use the alphabet. There are also differences between specific words (serbs have more turkish influence), but basicly it's the same language. The same goes for bosnian (they have turkish influence as well, but use the same language as croatians and serbs do). I as a layman can't even differentiate when a person is speaking croaian, serbain or bosnian. It all sounds the same to me, and I understand pretty much everything. Also when I was In primary school, we were still part of Yugoslavia and we had to learn other languages of our country then. We had a subject called: "Serbo-croatian", srbo-hrvascina in slovene or srbo-hrvatski. We learn it as one whole language. I learned cyrillic pretty well then, but I forgot it completely latter (that was 14 years after all), and it's only now that I'm starting to regret that

About chech language= I understand it much less then slovak language. This who languages are quite similar, but slovak is more familiar to me.

Look at this:

slovenian:
Good Morning= Dobro Jutro
Good Day= Dober Dan
Good Night = Lahko Noc (noc pronounced noch)
Good Bye = Nasvidenje

russian:
Good Morning - Do'broe u'tro
Good Day - Do'briy De'n
Good Night - Do'broy No'chi
Good Bye - Dosvida'nie , Poka'

slovenian:
hello = zdravo, pozdravljen/pozdravljena(feminine)
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Old 02-05-2003, 13:06   #7
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freddie,

Good Morning - Do'broe u'tro
Good Day - Do'briy De'n
Good Night - Do'broy No'chi
Good Bye - Dosvida'nie , Poka'
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Old 02-05-2003, 14:42   #8
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Ok, I'm back, too busy lately, so I didn't get a chance to record the 'sound', over the weekend I will, or type in Cyrillic, but I guess translit is the best way to do it anyway (since so few can read Cyrillic anyway ) Here we go:

Good Morning = Dobro Utro
Good Day = Dobar Den (a repeat)
Good Night = Leka Nosht
Good Bye = Dovizhdane or also could be trnslited as Dovijdane

pozdravlenja for us means = congratulating someone

freddie- I understand pretty much anything in serbian too, and if you say it is very close to Croatian, then no wonder why I understand that one also. All those- serbian, croatian, macedonian, bulgarian- are lalmost like different dialectsto me.

You shouldn't be surprised our languages are close- after all when the Slavics came over our lands- they were one 'tribe' (I am lacking the correct english word) so I will give you our word, I bet you will get what I mean one 'narod' . They all spoke one language, with few differences between different groups among them- for example on the Balkans, when the Slavic people settled here- the main groups were Bulgarian Slavic, Croatian Slavic, and Serbo Slavic (those were all South Slavics)- they were constantly fighting with the Byzantine Empire (that is before any of them could be recognized as independant states.) I reread some history last night - and even from those very early days when they settled- even though they had the same language- the Bulgarian Slavic group altered few characteristics- like couple sounds were pronaunced differently, and they also lost their 'padej' or 'padezhi'- grammar forms. That explains it, why today we don't have those anymore- thank god- because padezhi for me are nightmare.

Few more words:
How are you? = Kak si?
Good. And you? = Dobre. A ti?
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Old 02-05-2003, 15:46   #9
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First of all thanks to Web GoddesS for correcting my russian. I wrote it like I heard it, purely by intonation; I corrected the ones in my post as well- hope you don't mind.

coolasfcuk: I know exactly what you meant with one "narod". You said that there were three language groups on the balkan territory: Bulgarian Slavic, Croatian Slavic, and Serbo Slavic...hmmm I wonder where that puts us the slovenes. Because our language differs very much from croatian and serbian (those two are much more alike and slovene is pretty different from them...although still similar of course...). As far as I remember from the top of my head around the year 1000, we spoke "stara cerkvena slovanscina" (old catholic slavic). I can still understand that language vaguely and it was like slovene mixed with a bunch of other slavic languages.

I get the fact that southern slavic languages have quite a bit of similarities, what I don't understand is why are some of those similarities even in russian and other slavic languages that had nothing to do with the balkans. I know we were a part of one "narod" at some point, but that was probably thousads of years ago and from then on some slavic people moved to the west (like chechs, slovaks, polish...), some to the east (like russians, ukraininans...), and some to the south (like bulgarians, serbo-croats, slovenes) - although nations weren't defined then yet... So it's amazing how some similarities remained after such a long period of time.

Also: could you give me an example of what 'padezhi' means? I think I know, but I'm not really sure.

slovene:
How are you? = Kako si? - you can also say kak si? informal
Good. And you? = Dobro. Pa ti?

Too similar
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Old 02-05-2003, 16:33   #10
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freddie ha ha yeah, too similar, see...

Ok, I put those 3 'cause that's what the book said- I will read some more- I had forgotten lot of this (it is amazing how different I see things now, when I am not 15 year old in school having to learn the lesson )
So the Slavics- they came from the East- settled all over whats today Russia, Ukraine, Belarus (the eastern slavics)... then they kept moving west- all the way to, as you said, Czech, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia, Bulgaria (south slavics) they even made it all the way down to Solun (greece)- the land between 'Carpati', 'dnesar', 'dnepar', the 'danube' (spelling on all of those- sorry, my history is better in Bulgarian). So the slavic moved over to the balkans around 6- 7 century A.C. Those, the slavics, were the new people in those lands, since there were already people living there. (for example where Bulgaria is now, the local people living there were 'Traki') The local people weren't that many though, and Slavic were a lot. So, in general, they were all one 'narod'- the east slavic or the south slavic- all started migrating from one place. So it is understandable languages are close- of course today there are differences, the contemproary languages are changed a lot from the original 'slavic' language spoken.
Then there was the Byzantine Empire- the East one (with center Constantinople) and the West one (Rome). Slavic people were always fighting with the Emipire- the Empire got them baptised, so they became christians- I am not sure what year exactly, bulgarian slavic were the first ones baptised. Here is where some differences come- The eastern Slavics (Russians, Ukranias, Belarus, ect),Bulgarian Slavic were baptised by the East Byzantian empire, that is why we are Eastern Ortodox, while the rest, like Czech, Slovenian, Croatian, ect were baptised by the West Byzantian Empire, so catholics.
I can say about my country, in 681 it was declared as a state, and the Byzantian Empire recognized it's independance. We got this because the Bulgarian Slavic made coalition with another 'narod', now called proto-bulgarians, who also migrated from East. Both together fought the Byzantians and established a state- so Bulgaria became Bulgaria in 681 A.C. Very early, before any other Slavic in the region had independance.

So in stead of writing more now, here are some links about the Cyrillic alphabet, and also the Glagolitic alphabet (Old Church Slavonic or also called Old Bulgarian) which is the precestor for the Cyrillic alphabet. Cyril and Methodius were two brothers from Solun, one parent was Bulgarian one Greek, they came up with the alphabet so that they can translate the bible and regular people from the villages can understand it, because before that the bible was only in greek or latin.

Glagolitic Alphabet

Cyrillic Alphabet

freddie I will try to explain the 'padezhi' next time since it is more complicated for me.
And also how the Cyrillic alphabet traveled all the way 'up there' to the Ukranians (Kievskaya Russ) and then to Russia.
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Old 02-05-2003, 17:33   #11
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coolasfcuk: Thanks for the interesting facts and the links. Infact I will use one of your great links to copy/paste something about slovenian language:

Origin
Publishing in Slovene began in 1551 with a catechism and an ABC. The first Slovene translation of the bible was published in 1584. In 1811, Slovene was adopted as the language of education, administration and the media and later became the official language of Slovenia.

Used to write:
Slovene (Slovenљиina), a Southern Slavonic language spoken by about 2 million people in the Slovenia. There are also communities of Slovene speakers in Austria, Hungary and Italy. Other Southern Slavonic languages include Serbian, Croatian, Macedonian and Bulgarian.

Sample text in Slovene
Vsi ljudje se rodijo svobodni in imajo enako dostojanstvo in enake pravice. Obdarjeni so z razumom in vestjo in bi morali ravnati drug z drugim kakor bratje.

Translation
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.




Here are some facts I still remember from the top of my head:

First mentioning of slovene language is from a seremon in writing called "Brizinski spomeniki" from around the year 1000. As cool mentioned slavic people were being baptised some by Eastern Byzantian Empire (ortodox), and some by Western Byzantian Empire (catolics) - like us. The catolic preachers, who were trying to turn slavics to christianity (we were pagans before) thought that it would be a good idea if the masses were held in the native tongue of the people. And so "Brizinski spomeniki" were born - first writing in slovene; although that wasn't real slovene yet, it was like I've said "old-catolic slavic.
First publishing in slovenian was done thanks to reformation movement across europe at the time. The reformatory priest Primoz Trubar published Katekizem and the alphabet, to bring faith closer to the masses. Then Jurij Dalmatin translated the bible 1584.

It's funny how all the southern slavic languages were greatly infuenced by religion and was left of the roman empire.
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Old 02-05-2003, 17:58   #12
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Im Polish.. uh.. Is Polish a slavic language? LOL.. Im dumb.
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Old 02-05-2003, 17:58   #13
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So you wonder why some Slavic languages write in Latin and some write in Cyrillic- here come some interesting facts that might clear this up-

CYRIL AND METHODIUS, APOSTLES OF THE SLAVS

The creator of the Slavic alphabet and the first translator of liturgical books from Greek into Old-Bulgarian was Constantine, the Philosopher, better known by his name in religion, Cyril, adopted on his death bed. Constantine-Cyril was born in Salonika (now Thessaloniki in Greece). In 863 he and his brother Methodius were sent by the Byzantine emperor Michael III to convert the Western Slavs to Christianity and arrange that the divine service in Greater Moravia is performed in their native tongue.

This was done at the request of Rostislav, the prince of Greater Moravia, whose possessions comprised the lands of now the Czech Republic, Slovakia, part of Slovenia and part of Hungary, at that time inhabited by Slav population.

Undoubtedly, the two Slav apostles knew the Old-Bulgarian language to perfection - this was demonstrated both in the alphabet and in their translations from Greek. “You are Salonikians - addressed them Emperor Michael, - and all Salonikians speak pure Slavonic.”

It is known that their father Leo, a man of noble origin, was a dignitary in service of the Salonika Greek strategus. It is known also that in the Constantinople imperial court Constantine-Cyril (about 827-869) excelled in his learning and was often sent on important missions to the Saracens and the Hasars. His brother Methodius (815-885) was Father Superior of the monastery of Polychron in Vitinia, Asia Minor, where, when the Slavonic script was conceived by Cyril, the two brothers made the first translations of the major liturgical books from Greek into Slavonic.

Both the motives and the exact year in which Constantine-Cyril composed the alphabet (855 or 862-863) lie in obscurity. Some sources evidence that before their departure to Greater Moravia the two brothers taught the Bulgarians, inhabiting the area by the river of Bregalnitza in Macedonia, the Slavonic script, but this fact is not quite certain either. In any case, it is difficult to deny that their letters fully coincided with the sound system of the Old Bulgarian language, which - irrespective of all resemblances - already differed, in one way or another, from the rest of the Slavonic dialects.

So, Constantine-Cyril and Methodius, accompanied by their disciples, started their mission to Moravia towards 863. Welcomed with open arms by the local prince and his subjects, they were actively engaged in propagating divine worship in the Slavonic language. Naturally, this rivalry was not admired by the Western clergymen, predominantly of German origin. This first mission failed and the two brothers arrived back to Constantinople. From here they set out on a new journey, through Venezia, to Rome, carrying with them the holy relics of St. Clement I, Pope of Rome. There, Constantine-Cyril succeeded in persuading Pope Adrian II, that, as a church language, Slavonic is as adequate as Greek, Latin, or Jewish - a step more than revolutionary in the context of the then Europe, and an argument already discussed in Venezia.

Unfortunately, during their stay in the Holy City Constantine-Cyril fell ill and died (869). His tomb in the “San Clemente” basilica has been conserved till the present day and is a place of veneration for many Bulgarians, as well as for other people of Slav origin. Methodius, consecrated archbishop by the Pope, returned with some of his disciples to his flock in Greater Moravia. Outliving his brother by 16 years, he continued his work in increasingly difficult circumstances, produced by the unabating intrigues of the German clergy.

Immediately after his death in Moravia in 885, his followers were put to persecution, arrests, and tortures, and were finally driven away from the country. In Greater Moravia the Slavonic script and liturgy were gradually ousted by the Latin.

In 886 the two brothers’ disciples, who had survived, set forth to Bulgaria, the country that had been converted to Christianity two decades before. Here they were received with honours by Bulgaria’s prince and baptizer Boris I.
Having received his blessing and support in the capital city of Preslav, as well as in Bulgaria’s south-western parts, in Macedonia and Ohrid, the adherents of the two brothers from Salonika founded two great literary and spiritual schools. Thus, for example, St. Clement (about 838-916) who was sent to Macedonia, and who is known to have been Bulgarian in origin, for only 7 years educated ... 3500 pupils!

In this way, after the failed mission of Methodius and his disciples in Greater Moravia, the Slavonic script, as well as the Old Bulgarian language and liturgy developed freely and in full force in Bulgaria. It was from here that in the following centuries they spread to Serbia, Croatia, Kievan Russia, Lithuania, Wallachia, Moldavia, etc.

The creation of a new alphabet, designed for a particular language, would generally engage the efforts of many generations. If the other European alphabets were the result of a long evolution, Constantine-Cyril devised his script by one single act.

The apostle of Slavs was not only creator of their script. Together with his brother Methodius and his disciples he was the man who made the first translations into the new written language, elevating it to the sacral level of Jewish, Latin and Greek.

In this sense, the work of Constantine-Cyril, the Philosopher, left a lasting imprint on the Christian fate of Eastern Europe. It became incorporated in the struggles between the Eastern and the Western church for their diocese, and delineated the zones of religious confessions, which have marked the cultural boundaries of the continent for centuries, until the present day.



Source

queenbee, yes, Polish is Slavic language. Do you still speak it? I rememeber you said you live somewhere else now.
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Old 02-05-2003, 18:33   #14
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coolasfcuk (indeed ), yes I still speak Polish.. So Im officially a part of this conversation now!
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Old 02-05-2003, 19:19   #15
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queenbee, so jump in then.... I would love to see the words and phrases from 'up there in the thread', that we translated into Bulgarian, Russian, Slovene, Croatian- written in Polish by you.
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Old 02-05-2003, 19:52   #16
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coolasfcuk: That was very interesting. I was wondering about that one for a long time.
I've known it's got something to do with Cyril but I wasn't familiar with the details.


OK, the language that I mention "Old-church-slavic" from which slovene language originates is aparantly named
Old Church Slavonic in english (I just directly translated it).
Here's something I've found about it from cool's link:

Old Church Slavonic
Alphabet
Origin
The Old Church Slavonic alphabet was invented sometime during the 10th century AD, possibly by St. Kliment of Ohrid, a missionary in Bulgaria. It later evolved into the Cyrillic alphabet. The earliest known inscriptions in the Old Church Slavonic alphabet date from the 10th century and can be found in Romania and Bulgaria.

Used to write:
Old Church Slavonic, a mixture of Old Bulgarian and Old Russian which was used as the litergical language of the Russian Orthodox church between the 9th and 12th centuries. A more modern form of the language, known as Church Slavonic, appeared during the 14th century and is still used as the litergical language of the Russian Orthodox church


And to empahsise further that serbian, croatian and bosnian are indeed one language here is somehing else from cool's link:

Origin
Speakers of Slavonic languages settled in the Balkan region during the 6th and 7th centuries AD. The division between Croats and Serbs originates in the 9th century when both groups converted to Christianity. The Serbs aligned themselves with Constantiople and the Eastern Orthodox church and adopted the Cyrillic alphabet, while the Croats favoured the Roman Catholic church and the Glagolitic alphabet.
After the Turkish conquest of Serbia and Bosnia, Islam spread to parts of Bosnia and the Arabic script was sometimes used.
The Latin alphabet was gradually adopted by the Croats, though they continued to use Glagolitic for religious writings until the 19th century.
Used to write:
Serbian (Srpski), Croatian (Hrvatski) and Bosnian (Bosanski), closely related South Slavonic languages formerly known collectively as Serbo-Croat.


ps: Queenbee indeed join in, the more the marrier
And btw, we are only representatives of south-slavic languages here + queenbee. Where are the Checks, Slovakians, Russians, Ukranians, Belorussians...?!
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Old 02-05-2003, 20:25   #17
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freddie, I have to disagree with you on Bosnian language. While similar to both croatian and serbian there are more diferences between bosnian and serbian than between serbian and croatian. IMO this is because Serbs (and Croats to some extent) tried to purge their language of words with turkish origin Bosnians "invited" them in.

cool, which alphabet do you use? Same as Serbs or Russians? I know they are similar but not same. I can read Serbian alphabet but only some Russian.
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Old 02-05-2003, 20:54   #18
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We are family! *does a little dance*

Some Polish:
Good Morning - Dzien Dobry
Good Day - Dzien Dobry (also.. we dont have any separate phrases. "Dzien" means "Day")
Good (Late) Evening - Dobry wieczor
Good Night - Dobra Noc
Good Bye - Dovidzienia

Sorry to all my Polish pholks if anything is spelled wrong
~~~~~~~~~~~
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Old 02-05-2003, 21:21   #19
crni crni is offline
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now...let's see...

Good Morning - Dobro jutro
Good Day - Dobar dan
Good Evening - Dobra vecer
Good Night - Laku noc
Good Bye - Dovidjenja

pretty similar
and luxxi you're quite right about purging turkish origins from our language. you'd laugh to some new words that are "invented" in the past 10 years just to differ from serbian or bosnian
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Old 02-05-2003, 21:25   #20
coolasfcuk coolasfcuk is offline
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luxxi we use the Bulgarian alphabet (which is kind of the 'fahter/mother' of all the other Cyrillic alphabets- if you read all the above it will make sense ) But here are the links to the 3 alphabets- Bulgarian, Russian, and Serbian.
See, Serbian is a little bit different than Russian and Bulgarian ones (has few latin influences in it), Russian and Bulgarian alphabets are indentical but the Russian one has 3 additional characters that we don't have in Bulgarian- ё,э;ы. Serbian is also missing the last few letters of the Bulgarian and Russian alphabets.

Bulgarian

Russian

Serbian


queenbee great ! See, very close, but still a little more different than the ones we have seen before. Now we need some czech and slovakian.
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