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what's wrong with the wolrd?


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Old 10-02-2003, 00:16   #1
FREDDYLOU FREDDYLOU is offline
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Question what's wrong with the wolrd?

the USA is about to go war with Iraq? if we do go to war would germany or france
would be they be there for the world? i've been watching
the news and both of them would'nt enter it. i been thinkin
and i think that would be wrong to go to war,but if it's
the only way to deal with this ,then let the world know that
the usa would be ready....freddylou why would the world do this?
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Old 10-02-2003, 09:30   #2
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There were always problems with the world.. No ona can live in peace these days.
Why would the world do this? Hm, are you sure it's a worlds fault? I dont think so..
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Old 10-02-2003, 17:54   #3
Silenced Sonix Silenced Sonix is offline
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Nuke 'em all! Stupid capitalist pigs!
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Old 10-02-2003, 21:36   #4
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Why can't we all just be friends? (Rhetorical question. No need to answer it. :P)

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Le noir, la gloire... On se demande bien.
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Old 10-02-2003, 23:46   #5
Umit999 Umit999 is offline
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i don't wish america go war with iraq

if they hit iraq

i think in meadle east have new fuckup

bye
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Old 11-02-2003, 06:53   #6
FREDDYLOU FREDDYLOU is offline
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we all don't want to go to war, but there is one thing that
makes us do it. that is every time that some asshole in the world wants to make conflicts. we r the ones that have to go
in an clean up the mess.. freddylou
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Old 11-02-2003, 07:06   #7
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That's intensely one-sided of you. It takes two parties for a conflict to even BE a conflict. Two sides that do not get along. It's never just one person/country's fault.

~Echo.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Quietly weaving,
Tiredly leaving,
Another today,
Again tomorrow
Together dismay,
And raining sorrow.


Le noir, la gloire... On se demande bien.
Mais comm' je t'adore, lorsque je m'endors...
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Old 11-02-2003, 08:27   #8
FREDDYLOU FREDDYLOU is offline
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thank-u for the responds..i'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
i also like to say is that many country's fealth the same way.
overall i was wrong to previsous remark. i wouldn't like to
see the war, but if any outcomes to the war i hope that
it comes to a peacefull ending....
freddylou
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Old 11-02-2003, 12:09   #9
Lena4me2 Lena4me2 is offline
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Aren't we focusing on the wrong

things anyway?

America (and Tony Bush) just want to blow people up - they have yet to come up with a convincing argument for war and personally I'm not surprised France, Germany and Belgum have said no and tried to table something constructive.

If Tony Bush wasn't so up George's back side maybe he'd see the wood for the trees too.
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Old 13-02-2003, 05:10   #10
Myhrr Myhrr is offline
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how sad

Screw USA. it's just the Bush thing: "Ohh, My Daddy crayfished other countries so I have to do it too!" If any country in the world deserves to be bombed it's US. They've got more nuke than anyone else for God's sake!

"How about lets blow them up with a bazuka?"
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Old 13-02-2003, 23:08   #11
Echoed Echoed is offline
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Be careful. Not all of the US are for this "bombing" business. As I've mentioned, there are always two sides to a story. I'd rather no one get bombed and we all just get along. (Obviously, that will never happen. But it sure sounds better than bloodshed.)

~Echo.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Quietly weaving,
Tiredly leaving,
Another today,
Again tomorrow
Together dismay,
And raining sorrow.


Le noir, la gloire... On se demande bien.
Mais comm' je t'adore, lorsque je m'endors...
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Old 14-02-2003, 00:08   #12
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We all would love peace, but that is not possible...

I agree with this quote:

actually is:
"Man is at war because each man is at war with himself."
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Old 17-02-2003, 21:30   #13
6 Shooter 6 Shooter is offline
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To be perfectally honest...

I think dat the US is going to war and i hope they dont start a draft either!!
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Old 18-02-2003, 00:48   #14
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I agree completely with you 6 Shooter!
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Old 18-02-2003, 03:49   #15
shizzo shizzo is offline
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Hmm.

I actually see more broadcasts on television about American who are against going to war than about those who support it. George Bush, his advisors, and others "in the know" about the ongoing dispute are in all truth representing a democratic country in which the majority, democratically, are against the possibility of war. But, considering that the principles that for so long were the foundation of democracy are now being tossed out for the supposed sake of the country, American citizens aren't sure of the exact motives which the U.S. gov't is employing in the current situation. Some say it's a war against Saddam's reign in Iraq, some says it's to prevent possible nuclear disaster, some says it's so that the U.S. can become a name in the Middle Eastern oil industry... it's just an undefined situation at the moment.

I personally am against war in general for the fundamental fact that it's a pathetic way to settle a dispute. Killing innocent lives so that a given side can gain what it seeks is in no way whatsoever fairly justifiable. There are several ways that the U.S. could come to terms with the Iraqi situation, but the government here is becoming more and more stubborn and caught up in the ongoing issues that it's losing sight of what the American people are believing, which by law is the supposed basis of reasonable action in a democratic state.

// Loki
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Old 18-02-2003, 13:59   #16
Neoperestroika Neoperestroika is offline
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Regardless of the war with Iraq, I think the US is taking big risks with North Korea. Stationing more troops in the South and announcing the exercises with the Southern troops is dangerous. It's clearly intimidation tactics, but with such a volatile regime in the North it could easily backfire.
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Old 22-02-2003, 04:22   #17
Myhrr Myhrr is offline
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why can't they just light all the nukes

so everyone can die and we'll be at peace? *roll eyes*
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Old 22-02-2003, 12:43   #18
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Thumbs up Articles by Terry Jones

TELEGRAPH.co.uk

Why grammar is the first casualty of war
By Terry Jones, Monty Python member, writer and performer
(Filed: 01/12/2001)

WHAT really alarms me about President Bush's "war on terrorism" is the grammar. How do you wage war on an abstract noun? It's rather like bombing murder.

Imagine if Bush had said: "We're going to bomb murder wherever it lurks. We are going to seek out the murderers and the would-be murderers, and bomb any government that harbours murderers."

The other thing that worries me about Bush and Blair's "war on terrorism" is: how will they know when they've won it? With most wars, you can say you've won when the other side is either all dead or surrenders. But how is terrorism going to surrender?

It's hard for abstract nouns to surrender. In fact it's very hard for abstract nouns to do anything at all of their own volition - even trained philologists can't negotiate with them. It's difficult to find their hide-outs, useless to try to cut off their supplies.

The bitter semantic truth is that you can't win against these sort of words - unless, I suppose, you get them thrown out of the Oxford English Dictionary. That would show 'em. Admittedly, the Second World War was fought against fascism.

But that particular abstract noun was cunningly hiding behind the very real Nazi government. We simply had to defeat Germany to win. In President Bush's war, there is no such solution. Saying "We will destroy terrorism" is about as meaningful as saying: "We shall annihilate mockery."

Moreover, in its current usage, terrorism cannot be committed by a country. When America bombed a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory under the impression that it was a chemical weapons establishment, that was stupid. But it was not an act of terrorism because the US Government did it officially. And it apologised for it.

That's very important: no self-respecting terrorist ever apologises. It's one of the few things that distinguishes legitimate governments from terrorists. So, it was difficult for President Bush to know whom to bomb after the World Trade Centre outrage.

If Bermuda had done it, then it would have been simple: he could have bombed the Bahamas. It must have been really irritating that the people who perpetrated such a horrendous catastrophe were not a nation.

What's more, terrorists - unlike a country - won't keep still in one place so you can bomb them. They have this annoying habit of moving around, sometimes even going abroad. It's all very un-American (apart from the training, that is).

On top of all this, you have no idea who the terrorists are. It's in their nature not to be known until they've committed their particular act of terrorism. Otherwise, they're just plain old Tim McVeigh who lives next door, or that nice Mr Atta who's taking flying lessons.

So, let's forget the abstract noun. Let's rename this conflict the "war on terrorists"; that sounds a bit more concrete. But, actually, the semantics get even more obscure. What exactly does President Bush mean by terrorists? He hasn't defined the term, so we'll have to try to work out what he means from his actions.

Judging by those actions, the terrorists all live together in "camps" in Afghanistan. Presumably, they spend the evenings playing the guitar and eating chow around the campfire. In these "camps", the terrorists also engage in "training" and stockpiling weapons, which we can obliterate with our cluster bombs and missiles.

Nobody seems to have told the President that the horrors of September were perpetrated with little more than a couple of dozen box-cutters. I suppose the US could bomb all the stockpiles of box-cutters in the world, but I have a sneaking feeling that it's still not going to eradicate terrorists.

Besides, I thought the terrorists who crashed those planes into the World Trade Centre were living in Florida and New Jersey. I thought the al-Qa'eda network was operating in 64 countries, including America and many European states - which even President Bush might prefer not to bomb.

But no: the President, Congress, Tony Blair and pretty well the entire House of Commons are convinced that terrorists live in Afghanistan. And what is meant by: "We mustn't give in to the terrorists"? We gave in to them the moment the first bombs fell on Afghanistan.

The instigators of September 11 must have been popping the corks on their non-alcoholic champagne. They had successfully provoked America into attacking yet another poor country it didn't previously know much about, thereby creating revulsion throughout the Arab world and ensuring support for the Islamic fundamentalists.

Words have become devalued, some have changed their meaning, and the philologists can only shake their heads. The first casualty of war is grammar.

[This is an edited version of an essay by Terry Jones, extracted from Voices for Peace: an Anthology (Scribner, Ј7.99) published in aid of Warchild.]

----------

Sunday February 17, 2002

The Observer

To prevent terrorism by dropping bombs on Iraq is such an obvious idea that I can't think why no one has thought of it before. It's so simple. If only the UK had done something similar in Northern Ireland, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.

The moment the IRA blew up the Horseguards' bandstand, the Government should have declared its own War on Terrorism. It should have immediately demanded that the Irish government hand over Gerry Adams. If they refused to do so - or quibbled about needing proof of his guilt - we could have told them that this was no time for prevarication and that they must hand over not only Adams but all IRA terrorists in the Republic. If they tried to stall by claiming that it was hard to tell who were IRA terrorists and who weren't, because they don't go around wearing identity badges, we would have been free to send in the bombers.

It is well known that the best way of picking out terrorists is to fly 30,000ft above the capital city of any state that harbours them and drop bombs - preferably cluster bombs. It is conceivable that the bombing of Dublin might have provoked some sort of protest, even if just from James Joyce fans, and there is at least some likelihood of increased anti-British sentiment in what remained of the city and thus a rise in the numbers of potential terrorists. But this, in itself, would have justified the tactic of bombing them in the first place. We would have nipped them in the bud, so to speak. I hope you follow the argument.

Having bombed Dublin and, perhaps, a few IRA training bogs in Tipperary, we could not have afforded to be complacent. We would have had to turn our attention to those states which had supported and funded the IRA terrorists through all these years. The main provider of funds was, of course, the USA, and this would have posed us with a bit of a problem. Where to bomb in America? It's a big place and it's by no means certain that a small country like the UK could afford enough bombs to do the whole job. It's going to cost the US billions to bomb Iraq and a lot of that is empty countryside. America, on the other hand, provides a bewildering number of targets.

Should we have bombed Washington, where the policies were formed? Or should we have concentrated on places where Irishmen are known to lurk, like New York, Boston and Philadelphia? We could have bombed any police station and fire station in most major urban centres, secure in the knowledge that we would be taking out significant numbers of IRA sympathisers. On St Patrick's Day, we could have bombed Fifth Avenue and scored a bull's-eye.

In those American cities we couldn't afford to bomb, we could have rounded up American citizens with Irish names, put bags over their heads and flown them in chains to Guernsey or Rockall, where we could have given them food packets marked 'My Kind of Meal' and exposed them to the elements with a clear conscience.

The same goes for Australia. There are thousands of people in Sydney and Melbourne alone who have actively supported Irish republicanism by sending money and good wishes back to people in the Republic, many of whom are known to be IRA members and sympathisers. A well-placed bomb or two Down Under could have taken out the ringleaders and left the world a safer place. Of course, it goes without saying that we would also have had to bomb various parts of London such as Camden Town, Lewisham and bits of Hammersmith and we should certainly have had to obliterate, if not the whole of Liverpool, at least the Scotland Road area.

And that would be it really, as far as exterminating the IRA and its supporters. Easy. The War on Terrorism provides a solution so uncomplicated, so straightforward and so gloriously simple that it baffles me why it has taken a man with the brains of George W. Bush to think of it.

So, sock it to Iraq, George. Let's make the world a safer place.

----------

Sunday September 22, 2002

The Observer

I would like to pay a tribute to the courage of Tony Blair. During these dark days in the build-up to war against Iraq it is reassuring to find ourselves with a leader who demonstrates such fearlessness in the face of tremendous odds.

Despite bitter opposition,Tony Blair has demonstrated that he will push ahead stalwartly with whatever the US intends to do. Even though the majority of his fellow countrymen are against the war (despite last week's propaganda campaign in the media), Mr Blair has shown not the slightest sign of wavering from his determination to do whatever Mr Bush wants. It is true that he has regrettably had to cave in over the question of debating the issue in Parliament, but he has fearlessly shown his contempt for the process by not allowing a vote. Mr Blair realises that he needs all the nerve he can command to resist demands for democratic discussion, if Mr Bush is to have any opportunity of dropping bombs on Iraq before the mid-term elections.

I would like to say a special word about another side of Tony Blair's courage - his moral courage. Tony Blair has the guts to stand on platform after platform repeating the words of the President of the United States even though he must be well aware that in so doing he makes himself a laughing stock to the rest of the world. Tony Blair has the balls not to be influenced by the knowledge that people imagine he is the US President's parrot and that his knee jerks only when George W. pulls the strings. It must take a very special kind of stamina to withstand that sort of daily humiliation. It is time we gave Mr Blair credit for it.

Tony Blair's dedication to carrying out the policies of the White House proves time and again that he has the courage of their convictions. He is prepared to back Mr Bush's arguments to the hilt even when they are palpably nonsensical. When Mr Bush cites Saddam Hussein's contempt for UN Security Council resolutions as the justification for his own determination to do the same, Tony Blair urges the President's case, for all the world as if he couldn't see the ridiculousness of it. When Mr Bush cites Iraq's failure to comply with UN Security Council resolutions as the reason for going to war, Mr Blair backs him up, boldly ignoring the fact that Turkey and Israel have got away with ignoring UN resolutions for years.

It is this refusal to be intimidated by the illogicality of the US position that perhaps displays Mr Blair's courage at its best. He is Mr Bush's faithful echo when the President demands that Saddam Hussein immediately cleanse Iraq of all terrorist organisations, even though he knows the UK never found a way of eradicating the IRA, and that, in any case, the terrorist organisations that perpetrated 9/11 were operating out of the US and Germany.

Mr Blair also refuses to be unnerved by the irony of Saddam's chemical weapons being anathematised by the nation that employed Agent Orange so liberally in Vietnam, where the ravages are still apparent. Mr Blair is unafraid to support a 'War on Terrorism' waged by the nation that has routinely used terrorism as a tool of foreign policy in Chile, Colombia, Nicaragua and Cuba, to name but a few.

But my admiration for Mr Blair's courage reaches new depths when I consider what he has to wrestle with over the matter of the sanctions against Iraq. As a practising Christian, he must need tremendous fortitude to bear the knowledge that his policies are the certain cause of death to so many Iraqi children. In 1996, the World Health Organisation concluded that since the introduction of sanctions, the infant mortality rate for children under five had increased six times. In 1999, the Mortality Survey, supported by Unicef, reported that infant and child mortality in Iraq had doubled since the Gulf War.

In May 2000, a mission to Iraq sponsored by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) found that in South and Central Iraq at least 800,000 children under five were suffering from chronic malnutrition.

Despite the fact that George W. Bush's father claimed that the United States had no quarrel with the Iraqi people, it is the Iraqi people whom he and his successors have determined to punish, and Tony Blair, to do him justice, has not flinched from following their lead.

The Gulf War witnessed one of history's heaviest bombing campaigns, a 43-day bomb-fest, largely by units of the US Air Force, left something in the region of $170 billion-worth of damage. The subsequent enforcement of sanctions has meant that much of that damage has never been repaired, and it is the lack of safe water, housing, food and medicine that is exacting the greatest toll among children and the elderly.

It is therefore very much to Tony Blair's credit that he refuses to be intimidated by these statistics. He has had the grit to stick by those US policies which target the most vulnerable sections of Iraqi society, and he has courageously ignored the logic that sanctions aimed at a civilian population in order to oust a dictator who cares little for his people are pointless.

It is a bold and audacious stance that our leader has taken up and it is clear that nothing will move Mr Blair from that posture - not democracy, common sense, compassion nor shame.

----------

I'm losing patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush

Terry Jones
Sunday January 26, 2003

The Observer

I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's running out of patience. And so am I!

For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is.

As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one.

Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours.

They'll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people. Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want!

And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq is the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never threatened us.

That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.

Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass destruction - even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as much justification for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush has for bombing Iraq.

Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by eliminating 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever long-term aim because how can you ever know when you've achieved it? How will Mr Bush know when he's wiped out all terrorists? When every single terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once he's committed an act of terror. What about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want to eliminate, since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers, have already eliminated themselves.

Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a future terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective until every Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims might convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims?

It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be really safe until I've wiped them all out.

My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply using the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up.

Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come.

It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.



=^..^=
~~~~~~~~~~~
Björk

Last edited by Mr. Cat; 22-02-2003 at 12:56.
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Old 04-03-2003, 22:04   #19
L_Katina L_Katina is offline
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'F*CK THE WAR!'

'War is murder!'
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