USA - General discussion (Part 1)

[coolasfcuk]

dude, they are both gonna do a recount, are you kidding, the difference is less than 1%

well, i dont even vote, but it is also sad to see that the domestic policy is not the one driving the results.... the same people that re-elected bush 2 years ago are changing their minds now... wow

[Khartoun2004]

I would just like to a second to point out that Republican Asshole Rick Santorum got his ass handed to him on a silver platter last night ... Which I am very excited about.

For those of you that don't know who I'm talking about... Rick Santorum was one the top ranking Republicans in the senate and also one of the most conservative.

[coolasfcuk]

speaking of... Rumsfeld JUST resigned

[freddie]

It almost seems like the dark empire is crumbling and the age of enlightenment is once again upon us.

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

speaking of... Rumsfeld JUST resigned

Hell Yeah! Rumsfeld's not stupid, he knows that with the Democrats in control in the house, the ethics commitee is going to be after him and he'd be impeached anyway and thrown in jail. next on the chopping block Karl Rove...

[Khartoun2004]

Democrats take Senate!!! We know control both Houses of Congress. Finally we have our checks and balances back and Bush and Cheney are going to have watch very carfully what they say and do now.

[coolasfcuk]

I just saw this so i thought id comment...

Originally Posted by Rachel

I know Americans find this hard to comprehend but 9/11 wasn't the first plane hijacking Do we see other so called democratic countries demanding info about everyonre?

it's funny how your america haterage has made you roll your eyes at such event... sorry, but no one is denying there have been hijackings before or after.... the difference is - none of them with such magnitude or impact

in fact, some of o the dicussins here are so disturbing, it isnt even funny ... thank god there are nath and freddie to try to put some sort of objective reasoning.. otherwise its like the blind making fun of the blind

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

i love how the people that dont even live here or havent even been here once are trying to predict such results..... maybe you spoke a bit too early there, spy... or is that what you were hoping for?

Yeah but I didn't predict any results. I just said that Bush's war mongering techniques still work wth the American people. My point was that if Bush uses that argument as his main argument, it means it still works, otherwise he wouldn't use it. And I still stand by that. America still loves Bush, if there was a third term Bush would probably be re-elected...now that there is not, I'm not sure. And last but not least, this cover says it all:

And why do I have to live in America to understand America? We have your culture at our doorstep

[coolasfcuk]

Originally Posted by spyretto

=And why do I have to live in America to understand America? We have your culture at our doorstep

its for a reason.... and its gonna stay there for a lot longer... so please stop shitting on your doormat .. the shit gets spread all over your home

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by spyretto

My point was that if Bush uses that argument as his main argument, it means it still works, otherwise he wouldn't use it. And I still stand by that. America still loves Bush, if there was a third term Bush would probably be re-elected...now that there is not, I'm not sure.

What planet are you living on? Bush has an approval rating of 22%. It's the lowest of any US President. All I hear from people is how much they hate fucking Bush and his agenda. Which is evident in the fact that the republicans got their asses handed to them in the last election. But go ahead and think that you know everything about "Americans" and our government when you don't even read our newspapers.

Believe it or not, our press is still free to say whatever they want. If they weren't it would be nothing but Bush's bullshit that things are going well in Iraq blah, blah, blah. But it's not, all I see everyday are stories about US soldiers getting blown up along with other Iraqis by suicide bombers. The economy is going to shit and we need to get Bush out of office.

And why do I have to live in America to understand America? We have your culture at our doorstep

I think my points above are enough to refute this statement. It is quite obvious to me that you do not understand American culture or polictics. Our culture and polictics weren't created 6 years ago. Sorry, we've been a country for 230 years now, not 6.

I also think it's funny that save for a few, you Europeans are constantly bashing Americans, America and our government, when all of your constitutions were based off of ours... Especially the French. At least we didn't murder the entire British royal family to achieve our independence... Now who's more violent. We don't have race riots lasting for weeks on end here, and cars getting blown up by our immigrant population.

If America is such a horrible place to live I wonder why people are still trying to immigrate here legally or illegally? They must be insane

[Khartoun2004]

Senate Democrats Revive Demand for Classified Data

And so the inquiries begin. I wonder what Bush is going to pull out of his ass this time? Stay Tuned for the comedy hour hosted by the Republican Party

On a side note, newly elected Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is on the Judiciary Committee and until recently was the Attorney General here.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

Senate Democrats Revive Demand for Classified Data

And so the inquiries begin. I wonder what Bush is going to pull out of his ass this time? Stay Tuned for the comedy hour hosted by the Republican Party

War against terror! Deus ex machina for every occassion.

[Talyubittu]

I love America. But not the America Bush is controling.

[Khartoun2004]

Anyway... More bad news for the G.O.P (Grand Old Party indeed ) This article was published on 365gay.com Ethics Committee: GOP Turned Blind Eye To Foley.

You all might remember the scandel about Rep. Mark Foley (R-Florida) sending explicit emails to House Pages that broke in early October and aided in the Democratic take over of the House... I expect several GOP leadership heads to role soon. *cough*Hastert*cough*

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

What planet are you living on? Bush has an approval rating of 22%. It's the lowest of any US President. All I hear from people is how much they hate fucking Bush and his agenda. Which is evident in the fact that the republicans got their asses handed to them in the last election. But go ahead and think that you know everything about "Americans" and our government when you don't even read our newspapers.

Believe it or not, our press is still free to say whatever they want. If they weren't it would be nothing but Bush's bullshit that things are going well in Iraq blah, blah, blah. But it's not, all I see everyday are stories about US soldiers getting blown up along with other Iraqis by suicide bombers. The economy is going to shit and we need to get Bush out of office.



I think my points above are enough to refute this statement. It is quite obvious to me that you do not understand American culture or polictics. Our culture and polictics weren't created 6 years ago. Sorry, we've been a country for 230 years now, not 6.

I also think it's funny that save for a few, you Europeans are constantly bashing Americans, America and our government, when all of your constitutions were based off of ours... Especially the French. At least we didn't murder the entire British royal family to achieve our independence... Now who's more violent. We don't have race riots lasting for weeks on end here, and cars getting blown up by our immigrant population.

If America is such a horrible place to live I wonder why people are still trying to immigrate here legally or illegally? They must be insane

You people attacking me for what exactly? Because I'm criticising your precious president Bush or perhaps I'm criticising your culture?? In a truly democratic country Bush should have been impeached a long time ago for his role in Iraq and even if his popularity goes down to minus 20% you can't convince anybody. You say people hate Bush now, where were those people three years ago when he was re-elected with an even larger approval than in the first election? You think we're gonna forget what you did in Iraq and how you've screwed up the world because now you say it was a mistake and that you hate Bush? And about Bush's popularity? Bush popularity means absolutely nothing, we know very well that his popularity had reached record lows before, that didn't stop him from being re-elected.
About your culture, if you can explain what your unified culture is in your vast, dichotomous, uneven country and how it is defined to encompass all of your people in equal terms -then yeah, I will admit I don't understand your cutlure. Do you understand my culture? You don't even know where I'm coming from, how would you ever understand. you will have to understand 55 different cultures dear, to start getting a grasp of even remotely understanding my culture. But I know you would not be bothered to try, after all your culture is the best, correct?
Last but not least, no matter how big your influence is in our lives - no matter how much "shit" we get in our homes, the shit will eventally come back to you.
I suggest you climb off your high horses and try to see what's going on around you. About the violence and stuff, you must be kidding. You're the most violent country in the history of civilizaton. Have you ever heard of the bloodless revolution?
We based our constitution in your constitution? The French? You must be dreaming surely, are you sure it wasn't the other way round? LOL
You don't even have your own language, you don't even have your indigenous peoples - cause you slaughtered them all. You got EVERYTHING and I mean every single thing from our own cultures and you're saying what? The Chinese and the Africans have every right to criticise our culture. YOU DON'T. You have nothing of your own, you took everything from us.
and please somebody tell me how I can be wrong on this.

Yes, the war against Iraq just prior to the invasion had an approval rating among American people of 76 per cent. So I somehow don't believe that either of you were in the minority of the 14%, Khartoon and cool. So don't shed your crocodile tears now.You weren't expecting to be dragged into this mess for at least the next 20 years? Well, you should have known better.

Originally Posted by freddie

It almost seems like the dark empire is crumbling and the age of enlightenment is once again upon us.

I say it's all bullshit, it's a vicious circle. Now the empire is crumpling, now that they've done all the damage? The evil Republicans? Let me say bullshit again, the fair Democrats are very capable of waging their own stupid wars in some foreign country overseas; it's a necessity for this superpower to survive. I predict that will happen early in their first term after they get back to power.

And the bullshit story continues.

[freddie]

You sound bitter Dr Dark.

The way I see it... each country - or should I say establishment - is innately manipulative, selfish, coruptive and just plain bad. Of course not ALL people within the establishment, but general tendencies always point that way. I think it stems from the essence of what we really are -individuals competing to survive in an unforgivably competitive world. A country is just a greater manifestation of that basic principle. The reason why everybody's fingers are pointed towards the States these days is the fact it's the only remaining super-power and can hence take advantage of certain international situations more so than other countries can (not that other countries WOULDN'T... it's just that given their political power and military/economic/social power they CAN'T.)

Look at Russia - they're not even a superpower. Their only ace is endless resources of energy supply, yet they take as much advantage of it as tehy possibly can. Imo somewhere around 2050 we'll look back with nostalgia on those golden years when USA were the only superpower in the world. I'm almost certain China will be much more blatant in abusing it's might when it becomes a full blown superpower.

I'm not claiming America is perfect. I'm just annoyed when people see it as the one source of all evil on this world while all others are just standing by in a rightous pose waiting to save the world of injustice. THAT is bullshit.Think about it.

[spyretto]

I'm not claiming America is perfect. I'm just annoyed when people see it as the one source of all evil on this world while all others are just standing by in a rightous pose waiting to save the world of injustice. THAT is bullshit.Think about it.

Yeah but nobody does say that ( except perhaps some mad muslim fundamentalists ) In turn Americans still see themselves as the one source of virtue in this world while all others should stand in a righteous pose waiting to be saved by them.
Think of it that way, freddie.

And tell me, judging by G.W Bush leadership how this cannot be so. That mentality is reverberating everywhere there are Americans.
And surely they're not the only superpower. Europe and China are potential superpowers in their own right. If you want somebody to challenge them all the time and be in the brink of war with them - like the Soviets did - then yeah, you might not find that kind of superpower. But the Chinese government are not what I'd call friendly with them, and with regards to Europe, Britain their biggest ally has realised now that they have failed to influence the U.S in changing their policy in Iraq - Iraq is acknowledged now as the biggest mistake of Tony Blair's government ( read the bbc article, it's on bbc.co.uk ). Despite his big mistake Tony Blair was subsequently trying to influence Bush in many issues, Iraq, the environment and others. Tony Blair is a good politician but he couldn't influence Bush.
I'd say that USA are finding themselves more and more isolated in their superpowerful glory, while losing allies with their inconsiderate and selfish policies around the globe.

[freddie]

My point is any country would do the same were it in that position. France will take care of it's own interests. UK of it's own. So will Germany. That is so terribly evident within the ultra-liberal and humanist European Union. USA is doing the same but on a global scale. Most of the bitching other countries are doing is usually not of this-is-not-right type but rather hey-why-cant-i-do-that type.

I am absolutely convinced China -were it in the same position - would annihilate it's enemies in a much more decisive and represive way than USA does today.There would be no diplomatic discussions. There'd be no meetings within the UN. There'd be no ground infiltrations or ongoing sectarian violence. I'd be replaced with a short-sharp-(nuclear)-shock, that'd take care of all problems. I'm sure Russia would be like that as well.

We'll talk in 2050.

[spyretto]

Yeah they'd do the same...but they're not in the same position as the U.S.A. is now , cause they blew it.
And yeah, lets talk about it again in 2050. I don't want to pass as some kind of America hater ( because I'm not ).
I was just commenting on Bush's political arguments for Congress and several people here started yaking about how we don't understand their culture etc etc.. You don't need to know one's culture to know how the behaviour of a herd works. We saw it very well in the last U.S. elections. They're not different than anybody else.

I have a few doubts about Russia though. They didn't declare war against the whole muslim world after the Beslan tragedy.

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by Dr Dark

I was just commenting on Bush's political arguments for Congress and several people here started yaking about how we don't understand their culture etc etc.. You don't need to know one's culture to know how the behaviour of a herd works. We saw it very well in the last U.S. elections. They're not different than anybody else.

I'd like to point out that since you are soooo convinced Bush won because people here are in favor of the Iraq war, that is not the reason he won. Bush won the 2004 election because my (until recently) state of Massachusetts legalized gay marriage in 2004 and sent the entire right wing fundamentalist christians into panic mode and Bush used their fear of the "Gay Agenda" to turn an election that should have been about his atrocious handling of Iraq, Afganistan, the national economy, ect... into an election based solely on Christian morals. If you don't believe me go check some US sources about the 2004 election.

So actually Dr. Dark you do not understand US politics very well at all. 2004 saw the beginning of the voters, who until then stayed out of government, start to show an interest and vote only on moral issues not things that actually matter. That is the reason Bush won, his opposition to gay marriage, not Iraq. The most recent election was not about moral issues (thanks to several republican scandels), but about Iraq and you'll notice that the republicans LOST... Bush has been changing his tune ever since because the Democrats are planning to start pulling out US troops at the latest by January 2008. And also because they have more than enough evidence to Impeach him... which I expect them to do shortly after February.