Evolutionary Biology replaced by Bible Studies in American Schools.

[Kate]

goku, you have no idea how religious I was. I refused to believe anything that disprooved God for a very long time, up until I was 14 years old. Lol. I even refused to go to restaurants that had Buddah statues in them, and most of the restaurants in Taiwan have some kind of religious idol in their main hall. I was such a pain to my parents. Lol. But after we came to NZ, things started changing. And the moment that I told myself that there's no Heaven, I really wanted to... I dunno... destroy myself, I suppose. It was terrible. But I got my head around it. As I'm sure all humanity will someday.

Now I hope to become genetic analyst for paleoantropologists. The more evidence we'll have, the more people will stop believing silly religious nonsense.

Originally Posted by goku

And why do you bring God into this?

This is personal. Between me and "God".

[goku]

katbeidar, now I can understand where you are coming from.

Personal experiences define who we are. I haven't yet had a revelation, well one that will make me cease to believe in the endless possibilities of realities and truths, but if that comes I'll tell you and join you in paleoantropology. I myself had wanted for a long time to become a diplomat, to create peace in our world. But after taking a small course on aviation I realised becoming a pilot was what I wanted. A cosmonaut ultimately. I've always loved the stars, I hope to go someday.
Some of our influences may be "religous nonsense" that causes some people to believe something, but for me religion isn't involved. Which kind of got me thinking, there is a lot of people that won't change their beliefs because religion makes them feel safe, secure. Your quest is to change their minds to science and not make believe. I say let them think what they want; the futile quest for knowledge is an individual one.

Just kind of wondering, how long did you live in Russia?

[Kate]

Originally Posted by goku

I say let them think what they want; the futile quest for knowledge is an individual one.

I agree. It's impossible to change people's minds, especially if the person is deeply religious. My grandma is very religious, and why would I want to burst her bubble? She's happy believing that she'll go to Heaven. I say, why not? As long as she is happy, I'm happy, and everyone's happy.

Originally Posted by goku

Just kind of wondering, how long did you live in Russia?

Less then 7 years. After that I lived nearly 9 years in Taiwan, and just a bit over 3 years in New Zealand.

[spyretto]

Well, guys, you have to leave a little window open for the possibility that there might be some truth in a belief that exists ever since the beginning of time, sort of speak.


As for evolution, there's so much research to be carried out and so much evidence to be gathered, that I'm sure you'll have your hands full for the duration of your career, Kate.

One million years to create a simple tool, then another million to create another tool? Hominids migrating from Africa to China? pfff

[Kate]

spyretto, actually, it took a while to create the first tool, and little less time to create the second type of tool, then the tool started flooding in, followed by the use of fire and then the agricultural evolution shortly afterwards - and it's been exponentially growing ever since.

And Christianity came about only 2000 years ago, it's the youngerst of all religions. The first God was the Sun. And the second god was the woman.

[spyretto]

I'm not defending Christianity at all though...As a matter of fact I prefer the Olympian model, it's funkier Not to mention that they also believed in an "unknown god".

"First there was Chaos, an unordered mass of things. Then came - I suppose after a big bang Gaia ( earth ), Eros ( life ) and Tartaros (the underworld ). You see even those early civilizations believed in the afterlife."

[Kate]

spyretto, interesting.

[spyretto]

Well, the Egyptians took the afterlife as seriously if not more seriously than the Greeks. And every single civilization from the beginning of human history -even primitive ones - believed in deities and the afterlife. Nothing to do with Christianity, actually

Doesn't that make you wonder a bit?

[Kate]

spyretto, unfortunately, no one came back from Heaven and/or afterlife to tell us about it. So far, it's just a popular belief, cuz who wants death to be his/her END? No one. Everyone likes to believe that there's something more after death, that life is eternal. It's not. We die, we decompose, we're gone forever as an individual. All creatures on Earth are just a pile of atoms, if you will, that are functioning together.

[goku]

Well katbeidar, I was going to ask you what you thought happened after death, but you already answered it. The question is so open ended, it's almost impossible to answer. It'd be like if were living before the Big Bang and had no knowledge of the universe today, and someone aksed us what we thought would happen after the Big Bang. Infinite possibilities. No one has come back after death (that scientists can confirm; anyone believe in ghosts?) so no one can tell us about it. Sure, as you said Kate, one possibility is that we just die, and that's it, no more. For me it is to immense; all I can infer is that your body becomes inactive and obsolete (but who knows, maybe in a billion years our body's will take life again). Whether there is a soul, a heaven, nirvana, etc. I cannot pick any over each other. I just look at it as something must happen after death, or you won't be there to miss anything. Just think if you had to float in a black void for all eternity, how boring.

[Kate]

goku,

Originally Posted by goku

Just think if you had to float in a black void for all eternity, how boring.

There will be no black void. Your brain cells die, and they cannot process any information any more. When you are dead, you don't even realise that you are. If you do, then you're not dead.

[goku]

Yea, if you were dead you wouldn't realise you had nothing to do for eternity. I was just saying imagine if that's what happened. Just dying would be ok I guess, but I mean that's it it's pretty short lived. Heaven would be alright but eternity is way too long, it would get boring, unless there was a spell where it's always fun, then it would rock. The best would be reincarnation, waking up as a new person and not remembering anything from your previous lives. You live forever, but you don't know you are, and you get different experiences.

[Kate]

I think every person can die. I'll be bored in Heaven for sure. Plus, people get tired of living at some point.

[thegurgi]

goku, you said basically the thought that i have every other day... i don't like it. I always get this empty feeling...

I like the hindi way of thinking, Reincarnation leading up to Nirvana, karmic debt and all that stuff...

[kishkash]

...think about it scientifically...[since many of the arguments in this thread have been scientific in nature thus far]

totall energy in = total energy out = energy can neither be created nor destroyed. The theory of reincarnation supports this.

[Kate]

Originally Posted by kishkash

totall energy in = total energy out = energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Ok so far.

Originally Posted by kishkash

The theory of reincarnation supports this.

You lost me. What? How?

[goku]

Originally Posted by katbeidar

You lost me. What? How?

I believe kishkash is trying to say that your energy (i.e. spirit) is not destroyed after death, so it assumes another form through reincarnation. Also, since energy cannot be created, the energy present today is the same that has always been here.
Am I right?

[Kate]

goku, spirit is not energy. It is a reaction a brain has to different hormones. Energy is what is made in the form of ATP in mitochondria. Your spirit can be raised by drugs. Lol. And that is, the drug travels through your blood, activates receptors on the plasma membrane of your cells, causes them to start protein synthesis and make hormones or other such signalling molecules that target the brain and cause it to release endorphins and so on.

Actually, there's a really good theory, IMO, on the web. It says that for every thing there's an oppisite. Like, for a force to the left, there's a force to the right, like equilibrium. So, after big bang, there must have been two types of matter created - matter as we know it, and anti-matter. As a matter of fact, anti-matter has been produced in miniscule quantaties in Sweden. Anti-matter is basically the same as matter, expect that it's atomical structure has a negative nucleaus and positrons orbiting it. When anti-matter and matter meet, they produce large quantaties of energy, which gives potential for anti-matter to become a non-radioactive, polution-free enegry source for the future.

I'm not very good in physics, but I'm sure if you search Scientific American you'll find theories with supporting evidence about the big bang and so on.

[luxxi]

Originally Posted by spyretto

Not to mention, that obviously, human development has long broken that barrier of "natural selection".

Yes, it's called culture and from it developed nurture. We take care of individuals that can't take of themselves and would othewise die if there would only be natural selection.

[goku]

katbeidar, that doesn't really have anything to do with reincarnation, but I like it. I've always loved physics. Yes, you are pretty much right on what you said. Just to be specific, the scientists in Sweden create anti-Hydrogen, which you probably know is the 1st element and the most simplistic of them all. We are still a long ways off from creating an anti version of all the elements, and even longer before they have practical use. And to add, everthing has a specific opposite. If some random matter comes into contact with some random anti-matter, nothing will probably happen. However if hydrogen and anti-hydrogen met, then large quantities of energy is produced (what else happens is still being determined). But if you meet your anti-self, do not shake hands!

For things like this I'd recommend reading any of Stephen Hawking's books (A Brief History of Time and The Universe in a Nutshell are good). He makes complicated matters of quantum physics easy to understand.