The rights of animals (discussion)

[QueenBee]

Don't ever talk to me again.

Are you being serious?

Guns are needed sometimes to protect though.

That's just bullshit.... guns are completely useless in nature. If a person or an animal is attacking you, there are other ways to protect yourself. But my strategy is to avoid any waters where there are sharks, or forests where there are bears.

I didn't know about this story before, and I think you're the greatest guy, but some people should learn to respect other people's opinions... there's really no point in deleting your account because someone said something that you didn't agree with. If you want to leave, you don't need to log in again... I mean, we have members here who visited once, registered an account, and never came back.

[Winkie]

Right, it's not like anyone cares bout my opinion, but here it is anyway:

Shooting rabbits:
When you're alone in the woods and starved to death, feel free! You need to eat to stay alive and nature's about living and killing, in fact.
When you're just bored as hell, please get a life! You are NOT supposed to kill other creatures just for fun! What's the use of it?

Acting like a 3 years old:
I don't know how old you are Zero, but please act as if you are at least 15. You behave like a 3 years old, and I don't think they should have access to the internet. If they do, I'm gonna talk to their parents.

Deleting posts:
Why would you delete your posts? You typed it, had the time to think about the things you were going to say, so why delete it? Because you feel like it's a competition you should win? That's not what this is about.
As far as I know, and as far as I am concerned, this is a forum. A place where you can talk and give your opinion on something. People don't have to think you're right. You don't have to think other people are right. Zero, if you don't agree with Rachel, that's fine. But don't act this childish please. It's not really convincing or something.

Rachel's signature:
I want one! Where can I buy 'em?

[QueenBee]

I think he deleted his posts because he didn't think it was gonna be such a big deal. Makes it a bit difficult to follow the debate though!

*gonna go hug my cats now*

[spyretto]

I don't agree that all people's lives are worth the same ( never mind the rabbits )
For example metalheads' lives are more worthless than the others.

Peace.

Totally agree Winkie He already deleted his posts so I brought them back as they made the thread totally unreadable

Rachel that's called over-exercising your powers as a mod. If he wants his posts deleted, so be it.

[Winkie]

Why are they more worthless?

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by Winkie

Shooting rabbits:
When you're alone in the woods and starved to death, feel free! You need to eat to stay alive and nature's about living and killing, in fact.
When you're just bored as hell, please get a life! You are NOT supposed to kill other creatures just for fun! What's the use of it?

Oh I totally agree there. We are animals just the same as foxes, we need to eat.

But killing something for your own sick enjoyment is just fucked up. There is a direct link between animal abuse and violence directed to humans, that is a FACT. So I think that shows what the average hunter is like.

Originally Posted by Winkie

Why are they more worthless?

Winkie, ignore spy, he's just being his usual sarcastic self and trying to start a fight

[the unforgiven]

May I ask this lil' question : who is vegetarian here?
just curious ^^

Offtop:
Rachel I agree with Winkie your signature is awesome, praise Tatutaty brilliant poetry

[Winkie]

Okay I'll ignore him..
But I agree with you, killing just because you enjoy it is SICK, it's fucked up, it's cruel. If you have to kill to eat, that's okay. I can't say I really say "yeah let's go kill the rabbit and cook it" but well, if I have to choose between dying or staying alive, I'd kill something to eat.. That's the way the world works. But I'd NEVER kill just because I'd love to do it..
And if you think about it, as far as I know (maybe I'm wrong) only humans do it. Animals never kill for fun. They kill because they feel threatened, or because they need food, or because they are in a fight, but you'll NEVER see a snake kill a mouse or anything, just because he feels like killing.. There always has to be a reason and "I'm so bored" isn't a good reason..

Naïs, I've been a vegetarian for over a year, but then I decided that it is human to eat meat, and I stopped. Like I said, people need to kill, in order to eat. A plant or anything else is alive too, just in some different way, so if I'd not want to eat anything that has been alive, I'd better stop eating at all..

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

May I ask this lil' question : who is vegetarian here?
just curious ^^

I was for a few years but I got really unhealthy :/ I just don't like vegetables & fruit enough :/

I now only eat pork and very rarely beef. I actually didn't eat beef from the age of 6 til about a year ago because I like cows so much :/

Originally Posted by spyretto

Rachel that's called over-exercising your powers as a mod.

No, it's called making a thread readable.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Winkie

Why are they more worthless?

Cause they have a negative view of life.
Life's too short to be sad.
Etc.

[QueenBee]

I don't agree that all people's lives are worth the same ( never mind the rabbits )
For example metalheads' lives are more worthless than the others.

LOL! That's not true, spyretto!
Rapists.. I think they should all be shot. Or suffocated or whatever.
But I don't like how we see ourselves better than animals... and I can't understand why anyone would enjoy killing a living creature for fun (unless it's a bug).

[the unforgiven]

btw, I agree with Winkie
don't need to kill animals without a "real" purpose

I'm not veg, I like eating meat but I can understand people who said they are veg cuz' it's insane to kill an animal

about the gun stuff : calm down guys hehe
everybody has in own opinion and we need to respect each other
so, peace and love

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

LOL! That's not true, spyretto!
Rapists.. I think they should all be shot. Or suffocated or whatever.
But I don't like how we see ourselves better than animals... and I can't understand why anyone would enjoy killing a living creature for fun (unless it's a bug).

Well, we're not better than animals but our lives are worth more. We have what we call a moral system while the animals don't, that's why we're here discussing this, aren't we? Some animals only serve the food chain. We're civilised, animals are animals. We're more complicated beings.

For all those reasons and a lot more.

I personally don't condine the killing of animals, not only for fun but for food even ( as we can have an adequate non animal diet, so we don't need them to survive. ) But we all understand the universe is carnivorous.


So when we kill animals for food we still kill them for pleasure ( pleasure of our belly ).

[Winkie]

Let's take a breath first..

Dolphins are way more intelligent than humans can ever be. Their systems are so difficult we still don't understand. Monkeys are very intelligent. Even cockroaches are smart, they have to be! They've been on this Earth for over millions of years, and they'll probably still live when all humans are dead.
Don't ever say that we are worth more, because we are supposed to be civilised. We're not. We have war, and hunger, and stuff like that.
Animals are animals. Humans are beasts.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Winkie

Let's take a breath first..

Dolphins are way more intelligent than humans can ever be. Their systems are so difficult we still don't understand. Monkeys are very intelligent. Even cockroaches are smart, they have to be! They've been on this Earth for over millions of years, and they'll probably still live when all humans are dead.
Don't ever say that we are worth more, because we are supposed to be civilised. We're not. We have war, and hunger, and stuff like that.
Animals are animals. Humans are beasts.

That sounds like rhetoric and it goes back to a morality system. You can't compare a man to a dolphin because a dolhpin is an animal and a man is a man. It's a totally different proposition, as you wouldn't equate a plant with an animal. a plant is a living thing also but you wouldn't compare it to the life of an animal.

I think people are more sensitive to animals because their systems are similar to humans.

[Winkie]

So if we are sensitive to animals, why do we kill them for fun? Cuz that was what this was all about.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Winkie

So if we are sensitive to animals, why do we kill them for fun? Cuz that was what this was all about.

Cause we're creatures urged by desires that we can't control .
But we do have vegetarinism and veganism, which opposes that practice to such an extent that they wouldn't even eat the end product.. And we're against cruelty to animals.

So there are those people who freely indulge in their sadistic urges by hunting and killing animals for fun and those who oppose that behaviour...those who oppose it are the vast majority.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by spyretto

You can't compare a man to a dolphin because a dolhpin is an animal and a man is a man.

Why are we in a totally different category? Because you want to think of us as more important We are actually no different!

Originally Posted by spyretto

a plant is a living thing also but you wouldn't compare it to the life of an animal.

Oh man, we won't even go down this avenue

[Winkie]

Okay.
1) We are creatures urges by desires we can't control.
Killing is not a desire. I don't wake up in the morning thinking "Oh let's buy a Clock 9 and blow someone's head off." Killing is nothing but an instinct to have power over one another. It is needed in times of war and danger, but I can hardly imagine a little rabbit kill or attack a human being in such a way that killing the rabbit is necessary.

2) we do have vegetarinism and veganism, which opposes that practise. And we're against cruelty towards animals.
This is the complete opposite of number 1. If we have these things, and are against cruelty towards animals, then why do we still kill for fun? Please explain this to me. Cuz you are saying two complete different things right now.

3) So there are those people who freely indulge in their sadistic urges by hunting and killing animals for fun and those who oppose that behaviour.
Then WHY do those people who are against killing for fun, not have that desire to kill? Because if it was human, everyone would have it.. So it's not a natural thing.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Why are we in a totally different category? Because you want to think of us as more important We are actually no different!

Dolphins are obviously inferior to humans aren't they? Otherwise they would be able to achieve things of equal importance as the humans have achieved. I mean the human is a cross between an aninal and a higher being, isn't it? That's why a human is more important than an animal. That's how the idea of the god as an ultimate being originates as well.

You can't throw everything away and call what the humans have achieve a "fluke" We're animals of a higher order, because we're partly not of this earth.