Missing members and why they left - discussion

Mossopp · 13-12-2004, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by luxxi

Besides you forgot to add "and people with more than one account" in title. We are talking about such people right?

Exactly.
I still don't understand how someone was able to get away with posting under multiple user-names. Am I the only one who finds that genuinely creepy?

Unplugged · 13-12-2004, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by crni

the atmosphere here has changed...towards negative side

Could you explain better? What exactly do you mean with a "negative side"?

See, if I say the only good things happening with tATu in 2004 (as in, propelling their career forward) was leaving Shapovalov and Lena starting to record some demos for the new album, I'm being negative?

If so, could somebody please state what other positive things have happened with them - in terms of a music career, that is. Go ahead then, I'm curious

EeZeReal · 13-12-2004, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

Tell him I wish him all the best and it's about time he got his lazy arse off the sofa!

I concur...and atleast I'm out of the perpetual rut now

Quote:

Originally Posted by staringelf

TvA would come back, which is highly unlikely.

Why would you make that assumption?

nath · 13-12-2004, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by staringelf

Offtop:

If I don't like something, some people or some attitudes, I say it. If in my opinion certain people are gullable, why shouldn't I say it? ..... It's just an opinion.... Whenever I think I should mention something I don't like, I will mention, be it some website, a person, an object, whatever. I have the right to do so, and so does everybody else.

Of course,you have the right...

Quote:

Originally Posted by staringelf

Offtop:

Anyway, this is a discussion about the members who we miss, do not start the forum wars again.

If you could think I want to start a "forum(s)(latin word) war" or "a war to this forum", you absolutely don't know me.
I was just trying to have a sane and frank discussion about the atmosphere of this forum, for this forum.
Think discussing kindly without hidding eyes is good sometimes.
But if this discussion is absolutely "off topic" or if people prefer escape from this discussion, it's absolutely not a problem for me: I've said what I have to say.

Just want to add a "Thanks" to all the ones who had the courage to express their opinion about this subject (even if they thought the opposite of my opinion) and to send a tender

to the ones who were "afraid" to express their opinion(as Bitty explained with such intelligence)

EDIT:Offtop:
I like you too, Miguel...that's why I was frank with you . Truth.

Unplugged · 13-12-2004, 23:46

Offtop:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunwalk

But if this discussion is absolutely "off topic" or if people prefer escape from this discussion, it's absolutely not a problem for me: I've said what I have to say

Nathalie, it is off-topic (at least for now, lol, the thread is not called "Missing members and why they left and why other people like or dislike other forums), I don't wanna escape anything, I've just had enough of this discussion. I already explained my point of view sooooo many times in sooo many threads, I've even sent it to you in a PM explaining my reasons and apologizing for having disturbed you in any way, because I like you. The people here know what I think, what I like, people know me. I also know what you like here, and it is not always what I like, but so what? The difference is, you are somewhat 'politically correct' here, while I am not. But that's just me, and I'm myself everywhere, personally, on the phone or on the internet - if I feel strongly about things I don't like, I express myself in a strong, obvious, honest way, without any attempts to make it sound better just so that I can please everyone. If I think "That's stupid" I say "That's stupid", while some people think "That's stupid" but then only say "Well, perhaps it's a little unappropriate" just so they can please everyone or not cause discussion. It's not my purpose in life to please everyone, and it's not my purpose to cause a discussion when I make the comments I make either. But sorry once again if I have bothered you, because I like you

Quote:

Originally Posted by EeZeReal

Why would you make that assumption?

Heeeeeyyyyy

Well, because that's what everybody said, including Rachel

I thought nothing kept you here anymore. But if I'm wrong, then I'm glad

teeny · 13-12-2004, 23:48

wb, Phil

About time you showed up

Mossopp · 13-12-2004, 23:50

I don't understand why certain members are being villified because they no longer feel any affinity with tATu. IMO it's perfectly understandable that a lot of people don't want anything to do with the band anymore (hell, is "band" even an accurate description of them these days?!).
Spyretto said that it wasn't the fact that tATu lied about their "relationship" that was insulting to the fans, it was the way they chose to admit this lie - in a sensationalist "documentary" that was really nothing more than 58 minutes of crappy, badly edited camcorder footage.
Sorry, but I spent a hell of a lot of money, invested a hell of a lot of time and ruined my pefect 'credible rock/metal fan' image by defending Julia and Lena up untill the docu was released. They owed me more than some shitty, low-quality home video that wasn't even made readily available to anyone outside of Russia!

I don't want to get into another argument about 'Anatomy'. The original arguements about it were bad enough - so bad in fact that I almost left here for good. I have no desire to drag that up again.
My point is that it has long been established that there are now 2 types of people here - those that are still tATu fans and those that are purely here for the camaraderie. I see no good reason why these opposing groups need fight and bicker with one another. Why make this place even more "negative"?

EeZeReal · 14-12-2004, 00:03

Thankies Tina and Mig

I was just doing the rounds on all the old forums I'm on, and thought I'd make an appearance here

Mossopp · 14-12-2004, 00:05

It's definately good to hear from you again, Philbert!

crni · 14-12-2004, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by staringelf

leaving Shapovalov and Lena starting to record some demos for the new album, I'm being negative?

no, that's not it. it's just how i feel about general feelings about tATu. i'm not directing anything towards you or anyone else, that's just my current state of mind... i cannot explain it better...

btw... greetingz, phil

la aurora · 14-12-2004, 00:14

People leave because the place becomes less interesting. Place becomes less interesting because many good people leave. It's some kind of circle and it's hard to say what was the first - an egg or a chicken.

Reasons are hard to find, still one is obvious - The Anatomy of TATU that was some kind of borderline between the past and the present of tatysite. Things were changing slowly even before it. TATU's inactivity, screwed up concerts - this all was making tatysite less and less of fan site. Still I don't think anyone will argue if I say that Anatomy was some point where the proccess stopped and something exploided. After that day there was no way back anymore. Somewhere inside everyone knew already, we had many articles and other sources telling the 'truth' we were laughing at, the one eveyone believed only after Anatomy came out. I don't know what was so special about it. Guess Mansky is just some damn good documentarist if he managed to unfluence lives and minds of so many people at once. He did the job greater than all tabloids together. He just repeated things that were already said and still he was the one who made ppl believe him more than TATU-girls themselves. I mean, c'mon didn't they say they did have bfs before the documentrary?

Mmm back to topic. After this documentary tatysite changed. I do see why some fans who really loved TATU got frustrated and left the place forever. But if u look back, u can notice that there were few of those who can call it 'their case'. If u make a list of people that used to be active members of tatysite (posting long thought-out threads), u'll probably see most of those hadn't come through frustration after Anatomy. They were either quite calm about the group from the beginning (I mean that they weren't bothered by 'are they or aren't they' question that much and were attracted by music and the great team that used to hang out at this forum) or they took the news calmly and just concentrated on other good things about the band. I guess the question is why THOSE people left the forum fully or particulary. General threads posters gone... do u really think the reason is TATU?

I guess one has to leave the forum for a while to see how drastically things changed here. It's hard to notice when u keep being the part of it and change urself along with whole forum changing. Nathalie is some kind of exception. May be her being an adult with sensitive soul is the reason. I don't know. U got more than one post from people who sees this forum from outside and I wonder why the idea of at least considering their opinion being right didn't hit u.

I won't talk about my reasons to leave this place for a while coz those were mostly personal. Still I can share what I saw when came back. Many people gone, yeah it does hurt. But what matters much more is that ones that stayed changed. Place just slowly turning into something like any other forum around. There used to be many people, different people, sharing and prooving their opinions, arguing, feeling hurt.. everything. Now I still see familar nicks but I can't see same people behind them. I can't even differ one from another often before I check the nick one more time. May be it's the forum of one's dream now. Everyone agreed that TATU suck, life is unfair and all we can do is sit and laugh making cruel remarks. Bitterness and dissability to feel filled the the place. But hey, nobody is hurt at least. All people that dared to have different opinion were called idiots, were laughed at and left the place. tatysite is in peace. And I remember the times where we had all those discussions about if tatu-bashers should be tolerated and their opinion respected. Tolerance gone and all who saved any love for the band too. And u know what, I don't see those people coming back even if TATU suddenly releases 5 albums they were recording all this time one day lol Forum community is broken.

Now the main way to entertain urself is to bash that other fomum. Looks ugly to be frank. I do understand admins of the site doing it. It's their job and touches their interests. I do understand people who's materials were 'stolen' (even if I don't get why something u did and give for free anyway should be shared only with some group of people and other people having same interest can't use it. There was a time I was writing long detailed reports on Podnebesnaya show and I was actually happy to see that those were useful for people on more forums than 1) but I really don't see why whould people be so cruel and rude to guys they were used sharing same forum space with. I don't see why someone who wasn't writing news, making caps or something would attack people they were that once were bringing more ideas to the forum just because they stopped enjoying it here. I mean they come here and try talking with u normally and all u can say back is 'ewwwww, go back to that idiots forum and leave us alone'. Generalizing much eh? It's just childish. How can u, people that used to base their opinions on the fact that nothing is what it seems, that even one person can act differenly in different situations and must be judged for each single action separately (not even talking about stupidness of attempts to judge some group of people as a whole) can jump on such conclusions now?

I could write twice bigger topic to be frank, but I doubt even this one will be read. So I stop and u can go throw rocks at me lol

P.S. I'm not another tatu*uknowwhat forumer. I'm regestered there but can't remeber last time I checked the place. I'm tatysite kid and I always felt here at home. Tatysite gave me everything: confidence, some skills, real frienship and love. I'm also in no way trying to start another forum war here. I just believe that this actually has to do with old good people leaving the place. May be among those 'idiots' some smart people found their space to have thought-out talks without being laughed at and having to fight all those stereotypes that are so in fasion here at the moment. Ones who didn't, left tatu-space forever.

P.S1. I'm not a tatysite basher and no way I was talking about the forum as a whole. There are many people here who I wasn't responding to. Still there are more than enough that will find any similarities in what I said and what they see here

~~~Peace~~~

EeZeReal · 14-12-2004, 00:23

Cheers Lorna and Petar...nice to see the old gang again LOL

forre · 14-12-2004, 01:43

People come here for something - they find what they need and leave with the time. All people came here because of Tatu and nothing else. After some people stayed and some left. The majority of the hard-core fans were gay, and this place became less gayish, if I may say so. You come - take - give - leave. Some of the visitors are still looking for a sort of recognition, and for some it became an every day habit to check the place. Friends, friends? There's msn, e-mail, aol, etc. for such things. Everything changes in this life, so forums do, there's nothing static. We'll all leave this place some day for different reasons and it will have very little to do with the charachter of the community in here as the community will change too. As for tatu.us - people come and leave that forum too and sooner or later it will see the end of its days. Even good things come to an end.

la aurora · 14-12-2004, 01:58

forre, those were few general things hard to argue with.

The only thing we have garanteed is that we die in the end..

The only thing we have for sure that nothing is for sure...

and so on...

The only thing I'd argue with is msn, e-mail, aol, etc one. Forum is a bit different form of communication. Messengers work with short messages, quite hard to express ur opinion in the right way there. There are e-mails of course that allow to share more or less thought-out messages but these are 1 on 1 discussions while forum allows to have some kind of group talk, so everyone can read opinion of everyone and share his own.

And i didn't get gay thingie.. I mean what does it have to do with all this? Yeah some gay people left as well as some straight ones. Still many gay forumers stayed here and I don't understand why is it worth mentioning at all.

forre · 14-12-2004, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny poison

The only thing I'd argue with is msn, e-mail, aol, etc one. Forum is a bit different form of communication. Messengers work with short messages, quite hard to express ur opinion in the right way there. There are e-mails of course that allow to share more or less thought-out messages but these are 1 on 1 discussions while forum allows to have some kind of group talk, so everyone can read opinion of everyone and share his own.

And i didn't get gay thingie.. I mean what does it have to do with all this? Yeah some gay people left as well as some straight ones. Still many gay forumers stayed here and I don't understand why is it worth mentioning at all.

When people find frineds they continue communication through msn, aol, etc:s. That's what I meant. Nothing to argue with actually. Group talks are not about friends - they are about expressing your own opinion and the possibility to let the steam out.

We had a lot more gay related threads before than now. If we wanted to breed such threads, we'd attract this part of the community with a great success but since this place became less gayish, gay people don't find themselves being a part of the community they need. That's what I was trying to say.

And yes, we all will die some day, virtually we'll do that sooner. That's the nature of any virtual community.

Bitty2002 · 14-12-2004, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by staringelf

Could you explain better? What exactly do you mean with a "negative side"?

See, if I say the only good things happening with tATu in 2004 (as in, propelling their career forward) was leaving Shapovalov and Lena starting to record some demos for the new album, I'm being negative? If so, could somebody please state what other positive things have happened with them - in terms of a music career, that is. Go ahead then, I'm curious

That is not what I meant by negative. I meant the attitude of members rubs me the wrong way. It is not enjoyable for me to be around people who are bitter, upset, made back-handed compliments, talks as if they are better than other people, speak as if they know the truth when they can't and then make other people feel like they are gullible idiots for thinking otherwise or even thinking slightly more moderately (it isn‘t that I love Tatu blindly or I think they were lovers all along and still are with all my feeble heart, thank you, so stop exaggerating people like me’s views Just because you see in black and white extremism, doesn‘t mean other people do). I also don't enjoy talking to people who bully other members, who say caustic comments and say, what- it's just how I feel, I'm an honest person (well, that's fine, but I don't want to be anywhere near people like you). I can't stand the snide comments about members, Tatu, other countries, other cultures, etc. I hate the pot shots. I hate the tyranny of banning members for disagreeing or for...well, whatever, I never did get a good explanation for that. I hate that you can't speak your mind without the feel of falling out of the silly little clique that has formed here, where people who think differently are mocked and scoffed at (I had enough of that in high school- or actually more like middle school).

Basically, to be blunt, I couldn't stand Kate back in the day, but she was bearable because her negativity (and I am not just talking about her negativity towards Tatu, but her negativity towards life, people in general- her arrogance, her caustic comments, etc.) was buffered by a huge group of positive people that I enjoyed discussing things with (even people who disagreed with me, mind you). Now, most of those people are gone or have changed to be more like Kate. Now there are a bunch of rude as hell comments mimicking Kate's old negativity. The few positive members who remain not longer buffer that negativity. They are drowning in it. This forum is drowning in it. I would rather not drown in it.

Even more bluntly, it is members like you that make me not want to be here. You said you liked people telling you how it is, well that's how it is. But that's fine. You aren't forcing me to stay and you do not need to change. But I can leave or avoid people like you and that is what I choose to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossopp

I don't understand why certain members are being villified because they no longer feel any affinity with tATu.

That is not why I am ragging on people. People are welcome to dislike tatu. It is that those people that dislike tatu, make people who like tatu feel like gullible idiots. Just read above, I've said all I can say there. But I do want to make it clear that I am not upset because people have a different opinion than I do. That is not the case. It is for how immature people are acting.

forre · 14-12-2004, 02:29

Bitty2002, I can't believe you "left" because of Kate?

la aurora · 14-12-2004, 02:31

There's such thing as group talks of friends. I was away from this forum for a while and I kept talking to friends on MSN, still it feels a bit differently. I don't think that now when someone from the gang (i mean a group of ppl who posts frequently and does have friends here) makes a post, he spends days and nights waiting for some ImNewMember1234599 to reply his post. He's more interested in getting a couple of funny friendly comments from that same group of people. So yes, there are people for whom friends aspect is not any less important that tatu one here.

Yes, we had gay related threads, alcohol related threads, other problems related threads. Guess after they gone we lost all gays, alcoholics and ppl having any problems at all.. nah, i don't think so. As far as this place is free from prejudices, gay people feel here as comfortable as straight ones. It doesn't really matter. This place I'd still call safe for any nationality, religion or sexual orientation.. thanks god i don't believe in

I know what u mean tho and can't dissagree that some people enjoyed this place as gay one only. Still people who came here only for that aren't the ones we are talking about in this thread.

p.S. I'm no way arguing just 4.30 am is my relaxed talkative hour, sorry

Unplugged · 14-12-2004, 02:33

I still listen to tATu, and I think only katbeidar never even considers listening to tATu and really thinks that they suck big time

But anyway, I still like the music, but me and mostly everyone here got fed up with all their lies (although we still have hope for them, me included) - they made so many false statements about how they were recording an album, how everything was fine, how they didn't know why their concerts got cancelled in so many countries, not to speak of the "yes we are lesbians, no we're not"-thing, which got so ridiculous at some point, like it was basicly "no, we're not lesbians, but our producer thinks it's wise to keep on winking at the fans to sell records" - some people didn't wanna see that, some people didn't care, some cared and got sick of that and now only care about the music that they listen / listened to and the music they will listen from tATu in the future.

The ones who still love tATu all the time, even after them lying to their fans constantly (or maybe they didn't lie, "they were confused", "they were used", "they didn't know what they got themselves into", etc), left this place and went to other sites to find people with a similar perspective. I and most of us stayed here out of a little bit for curiosity about the future of tATu, since it was such an interesting project, and also -mainly- because we developped bonds here and have fun here. I speak to several TatySite.net forum members on MSN and we got really close. And we have about the same right to stay here because there are people here we respect and who respect us and with whom we can talk without taking everything seriously and just hang out and chill, just like the others have their right to go to other sites to keep worshiping tATu blindly and make up theories and discuss what there is and what there is not to discuss based on little to no credibility - if they're fine like that, why not?

Yet I will not change my mind and stop saying I think *most* of them are gullable and overly fanatic, just like most of them won't stop saying we are.. "negative"

But what is the point of discussing this, may I ask? People are different, people make choices, and it is natural to great groups of people who share similar views, and if somebody doesn't like those choices, they can either get over it and act normally or go to some other place to complain about how A or B don't worship tATu blindly like they were supposed to (?) or discuss what has been discussed a million times, because that's the right thing to do, that's the positive spirit!

-- I think it's somewhat presumptuous to think there's some big plan to brainwash people's minds here into not caring about tATu anymore, such a conspiracy that the members don't have an identity anymore, all say the same things, and some are even scared to give a different opinion

I'm sorry, but whoever says that is on CRACK. teeny still has her opinions (who aren't always the same as mine, and THANK GOD for diversity, as long as opinions aren't based on fundamentalisms!..), Queenie still has her own opinions, everybody has their own opinions and their own individuality, and it's absurd for someone to just "drop by" one day and say the opposite.

People grow up and stop caring about things for which they have once cared about, because they reach a point of saturation. Most people who are here reached that point of saturation regarding the russian band, and stay here because they have developped a good atmosphere of sharing tastes and opinions on many issues, helping each other on the personal daily threads, discussing politics, science, religion, other sorts of music, etc. The members who have not reached that point of saturation, have departed and will continue to comment and overanalyze everything tATu do, say or not do or say, until they eventually reach that same point of saturation. It's natural. Now, if I think somebody is an idiot for still believing tATu have something going on other than friendship? Yes. If I think somebody who still overanalyzes the whole gossip surrounding tATu is wasting their time? Yes, most likely. If I think somebody who obsesses with the members of the group to an extent of speaking out directly to them in their messages, demanding them for take this or that attitude regarding their personal lives, throw virtual baby showers for Yulia's baby, etc? Yes I do. And I will never say that I don't.
Nonetheless, other people here prefer not to say that even if they think it is so, and other people simply do not agree with me and have expressed it and shall express it further if they have that strong belief.

Nobody here lacks of individuality, nobody here thinks for other people's heads, nobody here has problems with expressing themselves unless they fabricate those problems innerly. teeny for example disagrees with me and other members on a lot of stuff here, but she can go appart from that and just hang out with us and chill, just like we can forget our differences of opinions and hang out with her with no problems as well.

And she can bash me right now and call me a butthead and I'll still be her friend -- Because the thing is, both and I her know what this is: JUST a forum. There's more to life, things that really matter, so why take things too seriously and make a huge drama out of every comment?

This forum is not an overly-dramatic gathering of obsessed tATu fans, it's a place where people who have / had some sort of connection with the band just hang out and don't take things or themselves too seriously. And nobody who just drops by once in a while, and thinks it should be some other way, will change that.

I rest my case

forre · 14-12-2004, 02:43

sunny poison, Tatau community attracted lots of gay people in the first place and that's what I meant. Don't try to twist the things with alcohol and chewing gums and what ever it could be about.

As for the friendly comments - it's not about friends but waiting for the reaction and thus looking for some kind of appreciation. Majority of things in this world begin and end up with ourselves only. It's you and your projection towards the rest of the world. The community doesn't need to adopt itself to the need of every single person and it never will. Every community has its own borders and frames.

Then, if you discuss religion here - you'll bump on different religious issues and there all universal understanding ends, likewise speaking about wars and diverse sensitive issues. Where to draw the line?