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17-02-2004, 12:15 | #101 | |
tATu - Fan
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,276
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Quote:
No one can expect that someone standing up for tolerance is jewish, black or gay himself. They made a difference and that counts. Even though some people would love to turn the clock back and all those who came out or started living their lives as they wanted to would go back in the closet, shut up and stay alone for the rest of their lives or marry the "traditional" way and so on. It doesn't matter whether Y/L were a couple or not, we believe in the message of a movie knowing well that it's not reality we see. I'm thankful for what they did and I don't give a damn what they do in private, same goes for Ivan, even though looking at Pasha reminds me of the Placebo song "Change your taste in men" - but that's not really my business. |
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17-02-2004, 12:49 | #102 | |
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Perceptive, clever and eloquent as ususal. *applauds* xena225 |
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17-02-2004, 13:53 | #103 | |
iMod
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Location: Normandie
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Yes, Tatu made a difference, but for only a few months, it could have been so much longer. I'm not saying they should have continued to pretend of course, making a difference on the long run would have required that the girls were really gay in the first place. The project was doomed to fail from the beginning because of that fakeness, of course it never mattered to Ivan because making a difference was never a goal of the project. And i already said it, but for young fans, seeing Y&L transforming from two teenage gay girls to two adult straight women is so damaging! It's like a living cliche! The image they give now is "It's ok for girls to experiment with other girls when they are teenagers, but once adult women they have to switch to men." |
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Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ] |
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17-02-2004, 14:24 | #104 | |
I don't waste my time
Join Date: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,284
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Quote:
This is really sad. I can understand why Rachel (Real_Lesbian) got so upset. She came out to her parents because of t.A.T.u. - and then she sees they were faking |
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17-02-2004, 14:42 | #105 | |
tATu - Fan
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,276
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Quote:
They won't turn their whole lives back just because Y/L are in a f/m relationship. Gay-icons like Melissa Etheridge, who obviously didn't think Y/L were gay, didn't have any problem with tATu. |
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17-02-2004, 14:52 | #106 |
motylik
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Rob, I agree with you. They have/had the right message. It changed things. Honestly tatu never changed. They had those we have bfs one day and we are lesbian the other day talks all along. They never started something they didn't finish. People just saw what they wanted to see and still do.
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"Asking the right questions will make all the doubts go away." ~ German teacher "Having the right doubts will make all the questions go away." ~ My best(est) friend ^^ |
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17-02-2004, 15:18 | #107 | |||
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Location: England
Posts: 401
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Quote:
There was more to the 'message' than tolerance of same-sex relationships. If you went deeper, it was more existentialist, lesbianism was used as a metaphor. Anatomy's portrayal of Yulia showed this perfectly: she was an existentialist hero, unafraid to explore her sexuality, prepared to take heroin just to make a point about personal choice over addiction, even prepared to lay down her voice and career for her country! It was about making brave choices, not giving a damn about consequences. That doesn't mean the message was genuine. But the deep message was quite well-developed in some of Ivan's interviews (particularly with Malcolm McLaren in The Face) and in some of the songs (30 Minutes and so far as I could understand it in Ne Ver Ne Boisia). I think he probably was expressing genuine philosophical and political ideas, even though he didn't really care about gay rights per se. Quote:
Tatu was a joke, but I think it was a joke with a point. I was reading an article in the New Yorker about the Yippies, who derived their ideas about political protest from Dadaist and Surrealist art techniques. The stunts, the use of shock tactics, the joking are all reminscent to me of avant-garde art. Quote:
What shocked me, though, was Lena saying in Anatomy that she thought what they were doing was sinful. I thought that was very damaging. |
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Last edited by simon; 17-02-2004 at 15:26. |
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17-02-2004, 15:30 | #108 | |
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xena225 |
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17-02-2004, 15:48 | #109 | |
motylik
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xena Lena is not the man *shakes head* no way *laughs* |
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"Asking the right questions will make all the doubts go away." ~ German teacher "Having the right doubts will make all the questions go away." ~ My best(est) friend ^^ |
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17-02-2004, 15:55 | #110 | |
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Quote:
xena225 P.S. Lena is SO the "man". Don't let the boobs fool you. |
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17-02-2004, 16:55 | #111 | |
we shout
Join Date: May 2003
Location: we shout
Posts: 3,632
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Lena looked like a 'man' in Japan .. |
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I will forget my dreams Nothing is what it seems I will effect you I will protect you From all the crazy schemes You traded in your wings For everything freedom brings You never left me You never let me See what this feeling means |
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17-02-2004, 17:11 | #112 |
no....
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lansing, MI
Age: 39
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Posts: 2,861
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Sigh, i can't believe you're all back in that discussion again.
:: rolls eyes and backs away :: I don't need to get involved in this.... |
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http://www.broke-hip.com |
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17-02-2004, 23:12 | #114 |
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I can't believe we are having this discussion again, either. I would like to know why the girls lied so often though. The interview Lena gave after Eurovision (on Radio 1, UK) was quite something ! To me that means there is no real message or inspiration for young gay women left. They could have said they were going through a phase and moved on with some dignity. One more lie wouldn't have made much difference !
As for this reality show ... Just remember they were No 1 here this time last year. Just what has happened ?! Thanks Kat for your translations and everyone else of course. |
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http://www.xsorbit6.com/users/tatu/index.cgi |
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17-02-2004, 23:19 | #115 | |
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17-02-2004, 23:56 | #116 |
Loved and Admired by All
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Yeah...I was always confused by what Lena meant too. I was never sure if she meant the life they were living - like the lies and deception or something else.
I must say, I find all this amusing. I mean they were always vague and never gave straight (no pun intended) answers. And, to me, they're still being pretty vague - like they're playing us. Also, the whole message thing - yeah, it always existed and still kinda does - the reasons behind it doesn't matter; just the fact that it's there. So, I think ppl should stop over analyzing these things too much and just sit back and enjoy. * If you think about it, it's pretty funny. * (BTW, I think the lack of success in the west was the fault of the media) - Just my opinion...I'll go back to my shell |
18-02-2004, 02:04 | #117 |
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Gay fans may not be more important than straight fans, and both gay fans and straight fans were hurt by the events of those last months, but gay fans were hurt to a much deeper level.
Some gay fans *did* come out because of Tatu, they were looking up to them as role models, they thought Yulia and Lena had been through what they were going through, showing them that it was possible to live your gay love openly like straight people do (and it can mean something as simple as holding hands in the street despite the fear that it may trigger a violent reaction from people around you). Those fans took a huge blow when they realized that their role models were fake, that they had never experienced themselves what they were talking about (Lena talking about the problems they had with their parents because of their relationship... what a mean joke!). Now i know that some of you think that those fans have only themselves to blame, they shouldn't have believed such an "obvious" joke, they only saw what they wanted to see and for you Yulia and Lena were in fact always "honest" in their ambiguity. Think what you want, it remains that those fans are *still* deeply hurt and sometimes even more confused than they were before they knew Tatu. Those fans were often alone, struggling with their sexuality with no one to talk to about it, Tatu was for them a window that showed them that there was some hope, now they feel that they are back in the dark. As for homosexuality becoming more acceptable, well, a gay man was burn alive because he was gay a few weeks ago here. There is still a long way to go, and Tatu certainly aren't helping anymore. |
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Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ] |
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18-02-2004, 02:14 | #118 | |
Sad Little Monkey
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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18-02-2004, 02:19 | #119 |
kis$ it
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simon - i see your point. i wonder whether americans take sex seriously AND are obsessed with it..that leaves no room for ambiguousl-queer-but-not-anymore pop duos
xena - LMFAOOO@your joke. i agree with denial the message is clear, doesn't matter what kind of agent carried it, like a movie. although as much as i used to want to believe they might have been partially genuine, i still think they had a pretty close relationship. |
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The Complete™ forever I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ] |
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18-02-2004, 10:14 | #120 | |
motylik
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"Asking the right questions will make all the doubts go away." ~ German teacher "Having the right doubts will make all the questions go away." ~ My best(est) friend ^^ |
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