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18-01-2006, 07:17 | #61 | ||
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-Constructing anti-semitic pathologies about the Jews to conceal Christian hypocrisy was a "mistake." -Frequently executing pogroms against the Jews was a "mistake." -Attempting to wipe out the population of them was a ... "mistake." Finally giving back their home after how many years of overt discrimination? Mistake towards Arabs? No. ->Colonising the Middle East and Africa for years only to divide the land between feuding ethnic groups; leaving them to determine who'll win to rule the land or reduce them to gathering scraps of land here and there; HUGE MOTHERFUCKING MISTAKE!!!! Quote:
At least back your rampant anti-semitism with some logic, not some Nazi-sympathising bullshit! |
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18-01-2006, 09:55 | #62 | ||||
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18-01-2006, 10:06 | #63 | ||||
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18-01-2006, 10:22 | #64 | ||
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18-01-2006, 12:32 | #65 | |
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Anyway I think there's something else behind all these things that you dont know. Well, Here comes a question:What's the connection between sport and politic? I found this question over the net: "Should Iran be banned from soccer's 2006 World Cup over its nuclear activities?" And they let you to vote. The source:http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me.../iran.nuclear/ I cant believe how they can say that. |
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18-01-2006, 12:43 | #66 | |
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Stop putting words in my mouth |
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18-01-2006, 12:52 | #67 | |
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I can't think of any other reason. |
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18-01-2006, 12:58 | #68 | |||||
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It seems that some people can't let off their prejudices and personal beliefs and try to see things from a different perspective. I'm not saying that the U.S is responsible for everything, of course not. Everybody plays their part. But we're discussing different interpretations here. No, I'm sorry, I can't agree that the world is made in black and white terms like some - including Bush and the terrorists - want us to think they believe. Cause I don't believe that Bush or the terrorists believe that either But it serves their purpose. Quote:
And that would be more fair than what the westererns did with the creation of Israel. Jerusalem was an historically religious centre of the Jews, not the capital of an empire. It should be an independent cosmopolitan state in itself, allowing the peaceful coexistence of all its people, as it was historically. But that is never going to happen under the present status quo, the armament industry that is called Israel and the reaction of the Arab states. Are the Jewish the only nation that didn't have a land? No, they're not, they're just the most powerful, the ones that matter to the Americans. The others don't matter at much... |
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18-01-2006, 14:29 | #69 | ||
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18-01-2006, 16:58 | #70 | |
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18-01-2006, 18:03 | #71 | ||
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Personaly i think that only one big Arab state (from Marocco to Arabia) should have been created at the end of colonization, one state for all Arabs and of course no Israel. No Israel, because like Spyretto said, if we go around recreating ancient kingdoms of the Mediterranean region, we have a lot of work! Why not recreate Phenicia or the Hittite kingdom? Or if it is about 'giving back' lands to people, why not give back to Greece the territories in Western Anatolia that were stolen from them by Turks? Prestigious Greek cities like Troy or Ephese or now in Turkey, how outrageous is that? Or maybe we should start by expelling all people of European and African descent from the American continent and give back their stolen lands to American natives? After all if it is justifiable to give back to Jews territories that were lost 2000 years ago, surely it's even more justifiable to give back to native Americans territories that were lost only a few centuries ago. Quote:
It's Mister A and Mister B deciding that they should steal a part of Mister C's land to give it to Mister D, and surprisingly Mister C does not agree… What a jerk! Arabs have said it many times, if Europeans felt so bad about what happened to the Jews, they should have given them a part of European land, not Arab! |
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18-01-2006, 18:25 | #72 | ||
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And I do stand by my earlier comment 100%. You can find a million reasons why certain nations are not very sympathetic towards the Jews and I stated my own opinion about THAT. I absolutely stated no personal opinion about the Jews, because generalising like that that would be stupid. If you can't read between the lines , it's not my problem. Then again, I can safely say that I can sense that you DO harbour a certain hatred towards ethnic groups on your own. The fact that you're proposing that the US. should preemptively attack Iran on the basis of mere speculations and things that their leader said is preposterous. The fact that you disregard that innocent people will most certainly die during the attacks is disgusting. So my conclusion is that although I do not harbour any anti-semitic views myself, you do indeed harbour some hatred-apathy-indignation towards the Iranian people. Which makes me wonder whether they have done anything to you personally. Quote:
statement 1: I believe that the Americans did not promise a land for the Jews because they suffered - are they the first? - but because they control global commerce. You can see that in every big corporation the Jewish are on top. That means that they're very capable people when it comes to business. And "ruthless" refers to that indeed. They wouldn't care about anything else when it comes to business. That was the situation prior to WWII, that is the situation now. statement 2: "It's always about their fucking money". That doesn't refer to the Jewish but to everybody. It's all about controlling the wealth in every conflict around the world. So that statement refers to everybody, got it? The third statement expresses my personal opinion that Hitler used the racial facade to try and exterminate the Jews for the reason stated above. Hitler depended upon mindless racial hatred to achieve that goal. It could have been a religious one instead like others do. That time it was racial. But the underlying reasons behind the racial hatred were economical Hating you because of the colour of your skin or your ethnic origin is nonsense. Hating you because you deprive me of something is more common sensical. Does it make more sense to you now? |
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18-01-2006, 20:53 | #73 | ||||||||
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18-01-2006, 21:06 | #74 | |||
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It was placed next to my previous sentence but it didn't specifically target the Jews. Having said that, it does read like it was, so the placement of the sentences together was a bit unfortunate. I don't have to justify myself to you if I were an anti-semitic, nor apologise or whatever. I'm just explaining what I meant when I wrote that paragraph. Even If I were an antisemitic it'd be my own problem. But I'm not. Then again, if you like to think so much about me being one, fine. I'm an antisemitic to you and a non-antisemitic to myself. I don't have to convince you, in particular. You're beyond convincing. I also never said that Hitler thought the same as me and hated the Jews for the same reasons I hate the Jewish. I never said I hate the Jews. Go back and read again what I wrote. You completely made that up, and you contiue going in circles about it. Quote:
So what made you a hater of Arabs and the other nations in the region? Have you lived in the region to consider yourself an expert of the politics of the region? Or you do that in the comfort of your home in England? You seem to be taking GW Bush's and the Americans stance: Israel are our allies and we will support them whether they're right or not. This is the wrong politics. And this is the last time I will reply to you about this issue. I think I made myself crystal clear. |
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Last edited by spyretto; 18-01-2006 at 22:17. |
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19-01-2006, 00:08 | #75 |
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Okay, this discussion is getting a little heated. Chill you guys, okay? I'm sure spyretto didn't mean to sound anti-semitic, though I understand how one might percieve his statements as such. It's just a discussion. No need for unneccesary tension!
I'd just like to comment on the legitimacy of creating the Israeli state and it's comparison to possible revivals of old kingdoms or even giving native americans their land back. There are two sides of this (delicate) story. It's not like the jewish people just flooded the place after WW2, driving the Arabs out. The teritory that is today's Israel has always been at any point in time a native home to AT LEAST 10.000 jewish people which could trace their ancestors back 3000 years... the number was usually much higher than that. And furthermore - the influx of jewish migrations to Israel happened in two significant stages: 1800's and 1933+... so it wasn't strickly a matter of a country that came to be soley because of the holocaust. I think that the main problem that will forever render the middle-eastern problem unsolvable is and will be unwilingness to compromise. From both sides. Both sides look at the matters very absolutely and ideologically (also religiously which is of course dangerous as hell). Arabs will always feel like they were "raped" by the forming of a jewish state. They'll forever feel the resentment because something that was theirs was taken away from them. Jewish people will forever claim they just rightfully took reign of something that was theirs since all eternity. The truth? Somewhere in the middle. There are no definite rights or wrongs. Both sides lost a great deal and both sides got huge injustices done to them... they were a product of an inefficient institution called the League Of Nations (though honestly... is UN any better?!) The fact is... Israel EXISTS. And nothing will ever change that. Arabs living in the area should come to terms with that. That's the way the historical dice rolls. It's futile discussing which ethnic group had a RIGHT to establish a counry and where it could establish it... because lets face it: most modern countries were gained by conquest, murder, deceit and manipulation. If we start playing that game it's better to just dissolve every national entity which forms a country because it's obviously been established in a non-moral way. Also... Jewish people living there were put there by a political circumstance... not God... that's something THEY should realize. Solution: compromise and understanding. So simple and yet so hard. |
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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19-01-2006, 05:14 | #76 |
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Thanks, freddie. I was beginning to feel a little apprehended over here with people trying to force an opinion about me to me and to others. Even if I did mean exactly my comment about the money as it read - which, as i said, I didn't - it wouldn't be an antisemitic view; let alone a Nazi sympathiser view. Preposterous. But people have their own agendas and they weren't even willing to try and see the point I was stressing in the first place, even after I explain it 100 times; by that, missing the gist of the discussion. They prefer to easily dismiss a view that challenges their own as an "antisemitic dream" even when it's a valid one, without providing an alternative of their own. It's the easy way out to label someone as whatever and turn a discussion on the Israeli-arab conflict to a personal attack on the basis of simply presenting an alternative view to the one that suits them - about former historical events - while they can easily get away with presenting a much more dangerous view on how the world should move forward from now on; and ultimately missing the point of the discussion and turning it into something else.
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19-01-2006, 09:34 | #77 | ||||||||
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[quote=spyretto]I also never said that Hitler thought the same as me and hated the Jews for the same reasons I hate the Jewish. I never said I hate the Jews. Go back and read again what I wrote. You completely made that up, and you contiue going in circles about it. You didn't directly hated the Jews, you just said they controlled global commerce, were ruthless about it and Hitler had wanted to get rid of them for it. Quote:
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19-01-2006, 12:07 | #78 | |
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And of course, the continuous turmoil and violence in the Gaza strip and the dispute of the other Arab states with regards to Israel complicates things further. |
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19-01-2006, 14:37 | #79 | ||||
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I for one have always believed that it was in fact White people, not Jews, who control the wealth and the direction this world heading towards. So I'm really interested in your take on things, honestly. Though I have heard people ramble on about this, nobody has taken the liberty of actually elaborating how exactly the Jews control the world. Of course, if I disagree with you I will let it be known. Quote:
The one thing Europe has done that was not for its own self-interest (colonisation) but for the benefit of another people and most of you regret it? Why? Because you sold out the Palestinians? Of all the people you sold out (and there were/are plenty) why are they so special? Now don't get wrong I am in no way implying that Palestinians are worthless, I just don't get why they stand out among other disenfranchised people. You guys aren't the only ones that sold them out... and you certainly aren't the last. Turkey sold Palestinian land to the Jews despite the protesting of their Muslim tenants near the turn of the century when they ruled over it. They don't feel bad about it at all and nobody, including Muslims, are calling them on it. Even Arabs sold out the Palestinians (though some for a good reason), nobody gave a shit when 2000 refugees were slaughtered with Israeli approval during the Lebanese civil war, they were more concerned about the World Cup. Besides Jordan, no other Arab nation welcomes Palestinians with citizenships. And if they do, they have been kicked out (Kuwait). Oman actually has a ban, barring any Palestinian from entering. A common preconcieved notion about Arabs is that they are all united and fight for the right for Palestine to exist. They aren't and most Arabs in the Middle East genuinely hate Palestinians. It's only the ones outside the Middle East that do under some Muslim obligation. Quote:
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I'm a first generation immigrant and so are many people in Canada so really if the First Nations' People all of a sudden had a giant revolt all accross the Western Hemisphere people like me wouldn't exactly mind. They are the only people who have any authority to tell us "go back to where you came from!" Whereas if a white person said that, we normally all just have a good laugh. African Americans on the other hand never really chose to be in the States, so I don't they'd really give a shit. Which leaves us with white people... Amber, do you really want a sudden influx of people from Quebec who speak the language in a horrible accent (according to a French person I once knew) and Americans who have no idea how to speak it let alone be as obnoxious as an American could be? Please note that many Americans of French descendence are from the southern states. "Does that croissant come with low-carbs?" |
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19-01-2006, 15:29 | #80 | |||
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Jews are historically linked with the rise of international trade. I'm copying from Yossi Schwartz's "The Origin Of the Jews; The Rise of anti-Semitism" Quote:
http://www.marxist.com/History/origins_jews2.htm On the rise of antisemitism: Quote:
But I'm looking forward to reading your alternative explanation on why such "nonsense" was spread. The Trojan war was not made because of the chastity of Helen, you know |
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Last edited by spyretto; 19-01-2006 at 15:51. |
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