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China echoes Russian missile concerns


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Old 07-06-2007, 09:20   #1
taturocks8 taturocks8 is offline
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Tuesday Jun 5 19:46 AEST

AP - China has echoed concerns raised by Russia over a US plan for a missile defence shield in Europe, saying such a system could trigger an arms race.

The White House plans to place a radar system in the Czech Republic and interceptor missiles in Poland - two Eastern European countries that were in the Soviet orbit during the Cold War era.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said the plan had "aroused great concern and attention."

"China believes that the impact of a missile defence system on strategic defence and stability is not conducive to mutual trust of major nations and regional security," she said. "It may also give rise to a proliferation problem."

Over the weekend, Russian resident Vladimir Putin warned that Moscow could take "retaliatory steps" including aiming nuclear weapons at US military bases in Europe if the shield was realised.

Moscow believes the shield in Eastern Europe is meant for Russia, and says it has no choice but to boost its own military potential in response.

The US says the network is meant to protect NATO allies against a missile launch from Iran.

Once Cold War rivals for the allegiances of the socialist world, China and Russia improved relations dramatically in the 1990s and forged what they call a "strategic partnership."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=160814
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Last edited by haku; 07-06-2007 at 19:59.
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Old 07-06-2007, 10:22   #2
Talyubittu Talyubittu is offline
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Why don't we all just get rid of all our weapons and learn to get along nicely? I find it amazing that violence between people in the public is punishable by the Government but violence between foreign Governments is considered diplomacy? Thats just backwards.
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Old 07-06-2007, 13:13   #3
simon simon is offline
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About Russian complaints in recent weeks about US plans to deploy anti-missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic. The US says they are focused at potential Iranian missiles aimed at North America. Russian spokesmen insist they are intended to destroy Russian missiles retaliating against the US in a nuclear exchange.

A lot of people have taken this seriously because they don't realise the technical error, although the Russian military surely do. The flaw in this Russian claim is simple: missiles launched from the Czech Republic, say, cannot ever hope to intercept missiles launched from Russia against America, because the Earth is round.

If you look at a flat map and use a ruler, a missile flight path from Russia to North America might indeed seem to fly directly westwards and cross Poland and the Czech Republic. But run the path on a globe, with a string, and you can see that the true paths run to the northwest from Russia, out over Iceland. The only destinations of long-range Russian-based rockets that cross the Czech Republic would be Brazil or Venezuela: not likely enemies.

Russian military missiles are fast-burn boosters, so there is only a two- or three-minute interval when an infrared-guided anti-missile could actually see and hope to hit its target. The flight path is so far north of the proposed bases that to reach the missile in that interval would require a rocket four times as fast as any ever built. If this interval is missed, the would-be anti-missile would then be in an even more hopeless chase of the Russian missile. Nobody is building such an anti-missile, and probably nobody knows how to even start. So by principles of rocket science, the recent Russian complaints can be shown to be false.

Anyway, Russia and Chine have far more missiles than could ever be shot down by the missile defence system the US is planning. It can only hope to work against an enemy with only a handful of long-range missiles.

The real reason why Russia is making a fuss is because it doesn't want US bases defending against Iranian missile attack in Poland and the Czech Republic as they would strengthen the military ties between the US and those countries. Russia wants to prevent that happening because it wants to separate its former satellite states from the western alliance. That's why Putin is now threatening to target nuclear missiles at Europe if the bases go ahead.

Last edited by simon; 07-06-2007 at 13:34.
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Old 07-06-2007, 19:14   #4
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
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Russia has offered Azerbaijan to the US as a site for the missile defence system.

Sorry simon, while all that sounds credible there's a glaring omission as to why it has to be built in Europe. Iran's missiles do not threaten Europe do they?
More like oil interests in the Middle East and the obvious, Israel. If Bush was so concerned with Iran why wouldn't the US build defence systems in places Iran would target the most?
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Old 07-06-2007, 19:47   #5
haku haku is offline
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Well, i am personally opposed to those planned US bases in Europe because they won't be under NATO command but under direct US command, i have no problem with NATO bases in Europe, that's normal, but US bases in Europe are unacceptable to me.

That being said, Russia and China are of course making a big fuss about nothing.
First of all, i have my doubts that this US missile shield actually works, second, this shield can only intercept a few incoming missiles and Russia and China have thousands of them.

Shield or not, Russia and China will still be able to launch several hundred missiles on Europe in a single attack and kill everybody in a couple of hours, good for them and too bad for us i guess.

Russia is threatening to aim nuclear missiles at Europe… Ok, and the difference with now would be? The USSR had hundreds of nuclear missiles aimed at Europe on constant stand-by and ready to launch within minutes, i don't believe that Russia has changed any of that, there are probably fewer missiles (but still enough to annihilate the entire continent) and they're probably not as ready to launch as they used to be, but they're still aimed at Europe.

As for China, its military is working on anti-satellite weapons and attack satellites to launch attacks from space, China is in no place to lecture anybody on increasing military power.

And Russia which seems to have found a new friend with China should watch its back and look at what's happening in Outer Manchuria, the day is not far when there will be more Chinese than Russians in Siberia as China's main weapon remains its demography.
(To avoid detection, infiltrate the enemy with small groups of 1 to 2 million men. Chinese strategy guide)


It's obvious that we are going toward a new arms race, several new powers like China and India are going to want to be as powerful as the US, and the US will want to keep its superiority, this can only lead to escalation.

Not to mention the case of small rogue countries like North Korea which is currently launching test missiles over the Sea of Japan pretty much every week just to get noticed.
Japan *has* noticed and is getting very nervous, to the point that the country is planning to buy a bunch of super hi-tech ultra expensive stealth fighters F-22 Raptors, look at those bad babies.

I just saw that the US is also planning stealth destroyers, i'm just wondering exactly how stealthy those really are.
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Old 07-06-2007, 23:49   #6
Talyubittu Talyubittu is offline
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Quote:
arms race
Psh. I thought the cold war ended back in the 90's...


Quote:
Well, i am personally opposed to those planned US bases in Europe because they won't be under NATO command but under direct US command, i have no problem with NATO bases in Europe, that's normal, but US bases in Europe are unacceptable to me.
I agree. The U.S. does not allow other countries to stick missiles in direct firing location of themselves, so Europe should not either. I honestly don't see much difference in the Cuban Missile Crisis vs. What the U.S. is trying to do now. Even still. I don't think the world will ever come to Nuclear War. I think it's just a big way to scare people into doing something. Any country who launches a nuclear weapon puts them self at high risk. The only reason Japan didn't during Hiroshima's bombing was because they didn't want to risk full scale war. I quite Hirohito.

Quote:
Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.

Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers.
Why can't the worlds problems be solved without violence? I thought the Governments of our nations were established to make the world and it's country a place that functions peacefully. It's now a popularity contest, and it's something the people shouldn't allow their Governments to do.

Last edited by Talyubittu; 08-06-2007 at 00:03.
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:53   #7
simon simon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl View Post
Sorry simon, while all that sounds credible there's a glaring omission as to why it has to be built in Europe. Iran's missiles do not threaten Europe do they?
More like oil interests in the Middle East and the obvious, Israel. If Bush was so concerned with Iran why wouldn't the US build defence systems in places Iran would target the most?
The radar and anti-missile bases need to be reasonably close to Iran, so as to be able to catch the missile in the boost phase, when it's most vulnerable. Bases in the US would be much too far away.

Iran announced in 2004 that it had developed missiles with a 2000 km range, capable of reaching south-eastern Europe. They are an upgrade of the Shahab-3, which already had the 1300 km range needed to strike anywhere in Israel. Why would Iran have done that and announced it if they weren't threatening Europe?

There are intelligence reports that Iran has acquired missiles with a 3000 km range from North Korea, which are capable of reaching most of Europe.

Iran recently tested a suborbital rocket, which seems to be a stepping stone to a satellite launcher - something that also could be used as an intercontinental missile capable of reaching anywhere in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyubittu View Post
The U.S. does not allow other countries to stick missiles in direct firing location of themselves, so Europe should not either. I honestly don't see much difference in the Cuban Missile Crisis vs. What the U.S. is trying to do now.
The enormous difference is that the Soviet missiles in Cuba were offensive nuclear missiles aimed at American cities. These will not be missiles aimed at Iran or Russia, they're defensive anti-missile missiles, intended to stop Iranian nuclear missiles fired at cities.

Quote:
I don't think the world will ever come to Nuclear War. I think it's just a big way to scare people into doing something. Any country who launches a nuclear weapon puts them self at high risk. The only reason Japan didn't during Hiroshima's bombing was because they didn't want to risk full scale war. I quite Hirohito.
That's incorrect. Japan didn't have nuclear weapons.

Last edited by simon; 09-06-2007 at 11:09.
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Old 10-06-2007, 21:44   #8
Khartoun2004 Khartoun2004 is offline
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I agree that the there should not be US controlled bases in Europe, including missile defence systems... But I might support a NATO controlled one.

I think it suspect that the very place Russia wants to place a missile defence system is right next to Chechneya sure sounds to me like Putin wants a place he can put offensive missiles to strike Chechneya without necessarily having them traced directly back to him... but that's just a thought.

Also, I'd like to express my sincerest "What the fuck?" at Russia's threat to blow up Europe if a defence system is put into place... Do we really need to go back to the cold war? It seems like that is the road Putin is charging down. Quite sad actually, I thought the world was past that childish bullshit by now, but I guess not.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:49   #9
freddie freddie is offline
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It's simple. Russia and China are overreacting to turn attention away from their internal problems (civil right's breeches in China, tyrany heavy oil dependece, poor quality of living and a farce of a legal system in Russia). While I certainly don't condone US plans to build missile launch sites on Euro soil, I also think it's not as tragic as some are portraying it out to be. US certainly won't use those launch sites to invade China nor Russia and everyone knows that. Russia's (or rather Putin's) decleration that they could induce military measures against the EU countries was outrageous. If I was one of the leading men in Brussles right now I'd consider that a decleration of war. How very arrogant. Bitting the hand that feeds them like always. Without EU buying their overpriced oil and natural gas their economy would be in the pits right about now (nor would China be the ultra-swift developing asian tiger it is now, weren't it for it's huge trading margins with the developed world and the admission into the WTO.

At the same time I think the EU has every right to question missile sites on it's own territory. Defense issues are within the jurisdiction of the Union.
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