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Originally Posted by haku
I also agree that no EU members would have ever gotten involved in the Yugoslav conflict, that's precislely the point. What i meant is that *if* the EU had not existed, if European powers had remained totally sovereign states, then they would have intervene in Yugoslavia, each one siding their traditional allies. The EU prevented that, it totally neutralized any "power play" in Europe and Yugoslavia in particular during the war over there.
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That's precisely my point. I don't think they would. The issue of Yugoslavia wasn't THAT important to begin with. I mean it was but not up to a point where someone would go into an armed conflict to promote their ideas of territorial politics in the region. Doesn't matter if EU existed or not. European people in the 21st century just aren't as deseperate economically or as hungry for land as they were back in 1910s, 1930s...
But teh point is they SHOULD intervene as a common strike force once it was imminent Yugoslavia was falling apart. Somewhere aroud 93 even the US and France recognized there is no hope left for a peaceful solution that'd result in a united Yugoslavia again. That was the time to take action. Instead what the international communuty did was sit and watch as the bloodshed occured. I'm not saying EU should have an active military role (though I do agree with you on this point that in time Europe should have a NATO-like military organization of it's own consisting of all members contributions), but it should have a more active role in first mediating and then urging UNs Security Council to take immediate measures against the onslaught occuring.
I still think the EU is great for what it did for stability on the continent (especially between France and Germany), but in this case I think it learned a valuble lesson on when status quo may not be the right solution.
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Originally Posted by haku
As for blaming the EU for not stopping the war in Yugoslavia, well, first of all, and i mean no disrespect, nobody forced Yugoslavs to kill and rape each other the way they did, the responsibily lies first on the ones who commited the acts.
I remember that when i was younger, Yougoslavia was considered in Western Europe as one of the most advanced and open countries of the socialist block, with a good level of life and education compared to other socialist countries.
Nobody in Western Europe was expecting Yougoslavia to break into a civil war (especially since other socialist countries were transitioning relatively peacefully), and when the war started in Yougoslavia, the general reaction in Western Europe was… disbelief. Disbelief in seeing well educated Europeans going back to the most atrocious behavior in no time, neighbors massacring neighbors they had known for decades, men who used to be decent workers or students becoming gang-rapists, torturers, and mass-murderers only a few weeks later…
Again, nobody in Western Europe was expecting to see Yougoslavia drown in such senseless violence so rapidly, mass-rapes, mass-executions, in the late 20th century in Europe, everybody was stunned and simply did not understand the reason of such madness.
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Yugoslavia was a melting pot of nationalistic tensions since the 70s. Sometimes in the late 80s and especially in 1989 after Milošević gave his infamous speech at the 600 anniversary of the Battle for Kosovo pretty much everyone in the country knew an armed conflict was extremely likely. It was like a giant squeeze. A bunch of nations trying to gain independance while Belgrade desperately trying to cling back to the old order of it's de facto reign on the region. Something had to give. It was different in the USSR (and consequently in all it's satelite countries) since official Moscow went along with the split. Belgrade didn't. Add to that the extreme racial hatred between Serbians and Croatians and their innate (almost fanatical) nationalism and there you have it. I'm not saying either nation consists of a bunch of murderous barbarians, cause I do know plenty of awesome people of both nationalities, but there is a certain deep-rooted seed of hatred between them - one which could be easily exploited by extreme politicians like Tuđman and Miloševič as well as their herdes of paramilitary militias and psycho generals commanding them, which went on a murderous rampage of ethnic clensing and systematic rape operations. Bosnia was just caught in between - a struggle for power between Serbia and Croatia (At one point they made secret plans to split it in in two and share it between them).
What I'm saying is that international mediators that came SHOULD realize the possibility cause it's not something that started in Slovenia in June 91. It's been steadily escalating for more than 30 years. Many people who were well educated on the regional events warned the EU as well as the UN to take affirmative action and they just didn't want to get out of their mould of status quo politics. Many European leaders were pictured shaking hands with people who're now locked up in Haggue for genocide and crimes against humanity. I'm not saying they were malicious in their causes. Just extremely naive.