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Originally Posted by zelda05
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OR how greatly they value their religion.
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You are mentioning the very people who considered themselves "good muslims" yet they went against everything that Islam stands for.
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The people who value their religion are the same people who aren't representing the true nature of Islam, whatever that is. It is unfortunate that the people who make the biggest impressions from Islam are the people who completely tarnish its image. However, it isn't as unfortunate as that the fact that these people are the
only people representing Islam. All moderate voices are kept absolutely shut. Whether they are willingly silenced or not is ambigious. Muslims that have dissented from the Fundamentalist's position are outcasted and are sent death threats; Salman Rushdie, Irshad Manji, that female Cleric who lead prayers in New York, etc. All form of dissent are squashed. It is believed that disagreeing with a fellow Muslim is "haram" (sinful). So Muslims would rather perceive cartoons is painting Islam badly than seeing that crazy fundementalists beheading random Western infidels isn't exactly good for their image either. There are moderates who disagree with this, there are plenty of them in fact, but they don't say shit publically. It took five years after 9/11 for Clerics to establish a Fatwa against terrorists, and those Clerics were in the West.
Nobody is asking Muslims to not get offended by the cartoons, even Westerners were offended. They even started off alright with the boycott and that got them an apology. By the level of violence that was created from all of this, and other stupid events like Miss World, is absurd. This isn't the reaction of people who value their religion. This is the reaction of people who truly believe that beauty pagaents and cartoons can undermine one of the biggest religions in the world... there is no reason or logic behind that, it is simply born out of insecurity.
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Originally Posted by zelda05
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How interesting. It is unimaginable for Arab media or any media (owned by the muslims) for that matter to mock or depict a negative image of Jesus, Adam, David, Joseph, Isaac and other prophets (P.B.U.T) because they also consider them as Prophets. Muslims MUST have high regards for the Bible and Torah.
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They can't mock any of them because they are all in the Quran. Technically Islam only recognizes religions that worship the God of Abraham, very limiting. Even so, Muslims still critisize Christians through gross misinterpretations; e.g. They see the phrase "Holy Trinity" and think Christians worship three Gods, thus making Christianity invalid. Furthermore, they believe the Bible has been tampered with (something
Christians speculated) and is therefore completely false. Not to mention that in their eyes, both the Bible and the Torah are outdated.
And that's just Judaism and Christianity.
It's unbelieveable what they think of Buddhism and Hinduism.
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Originally Posted by zelda05
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"The Babri Mosque was a mosque constructed by order of the first Mugal emperor of India, Babur, in Ayodhya in the 16th century. It was destroyed in a riot by hostile Hindu extremists on December 6, 1992."
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Though as horrible as that, you cannot say that it was an isolated incidence. This was part of one giant violent clash between Hindus and Muslims ever since Partition. Both Hindus and Muslims have committed equally atrocious acts against one another. That doesn't even compare to how Arab Christians are treated in the Middle East, who (with the exception of the Lebanese) have done nothing to Muslims other than exist, which I guess offends them:
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December 16, 2001, a newly built church was destroyed in Al-Ubor City by the mayor of the city (Mr. Galal Sayed Al-Ahl )and his police forces. They used the same excuse that the church was illegally built, even though the church had the proper permission. The Egyptian government did not investigate the mayor, who was appointed by President Mubarak, for wrong doing.
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February 25, 2001, over 1000 policeman, several Lieutenants and Generals stormed the Church of St. Bola located in Shobra Elkhaima (Qalyubia) with 5 bulldozers. They destroyed the 5-story building and threatened the life of its priest. The order to destroy the church came from the governor of Qalyubia, who is appointed by President Mubarak. The church had all proper construction permission. The Egyptian government did not investigate the governor for wrong doing.
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August 28, 2000, over 500 Moslems attacked and destroyed a small church at the village of Kaser Rashwan, in the city of Tamyah, El Fayoum province. The rioters also destroyed 7 homes owned by Christians and injured 4 Christians with serious injuries in the village. No one was arrested or tried for any crimes.
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July 27, 2000, an Egyptian Christian Copt was shot dead and three others were injured in clashes with their Moslem neighbors over the construction of a church. Fakhri Ayyad Mus'ad, 38, was killed in the gun battle that broke out when Moslem farmers discovered that unlicensed construction work by a Copt in a nearby field was a church. No one was arrested or tried for this crime.
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April 12, 2000, Egyptian police surrounded the Church of "Ezbet Al Akbat" on the outskirts of Cairo, after three Coptic Orthodox priests and over 400 Copts from the village of 'Ezbet El Akbat', opened the doors of the church which was closed for over 10 years for no obvious reason. The standoff ended after three days and the church is still closed.
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February 28, 2000, hours after Pope John Paul II left Mount Sinai, Egypt, heavily armed forces of the Egyptian police stormed the only Coptic Church in Al-Tor city (south of Sinai) and destroyed the altar of the church. After destroying the altar, members of the police confiscated the altar’s sacred vessels as well as consecrated priest and deacons clothing. The police arrested the local Bishop (Bishop Makary) for three hours and accused him of building a church without permission. No investigation of the matter was open by the Egyptian government.
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January 1, 2000, hundreds of Muslims attacked a predominantly Christians village killing 21 Christians and burning a church. No one was arrested, charged or convicted of the murder of the 21 Christians.
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February 13, 1997, gunmen attacked St. George in Abu Qurkas, in El-Minia killing 11 Christian youth during a youth meeting. No one was arrested or tried for any crimes.
And Egypt is a secular nation that allows Christians to worship.
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Originally Posted by xmad
Really.and I cant change it.If I was christian or whatever,I could be a muslim but if you are muslim you cant change it(in Iran).
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I freaking hate it when religions have this claim over your faith like, "I don't care what you say, you're..."
Catholics also have that, once you're baptised Catholic your Catholic for life. But really if you're born Muslim and you convert to Catholicism, Catholics would recognize you as being Catholic and visa versa. Who the hell cares what the religion you left thinks of you. In the end you are whatever you define yourself as.
PS: Yo, seriously we should take this to another thread if we continue discussing about Islam. Just a suggestion.
freddie: Agreed