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I don't have time right now so I'll come back later this week end to discuss about what happened , for exemple, in France.
I'm really upset that all was mixed and manipulated by some media and a lot of Poiltic Men!

I have just 2 questions-ideas:

Originally Posted by crni

every country has it's nationalists that have the urge to spread hatred towards imigrants and "coloured" people...

I don't think it's so simple crni...I even think what you say could be VERY dangerous...
I explain : of course , I know you aren't dangerous but to spread systematically this idea is dangerous in the way that : for exemple in France, a lot of associations as "Touche pas à mon pote!" have spreaded , have pushed , have amplified such ideas: take care French hate all what is coloured and won't respect you!....

It's so easyyyyy....of course we are all afraid by all wwhat is different.but people adapt themselves with time and WITH WHAT THEY SEE!!!

So the problem is that with all this brain wash and MANIPULATION from POLITICS to get votes for elections, we have some persons from immigration who arrive in France and immediately situate themselves as VICTIMS!!! ..;I mean BEFORE they even learn to speak french they have in their brain, by all the propaganda, that they are VICTMS!!!

So first I would ask: Are you sure that ALL people really want to integrate a country?
I mean when you arrive into a country , at the origine it's because you have choosen this country...it "fits" to your choice...so may be you have to make some effords to try to INTAGRATE yourself....and when i say that no confusion.....France is a country where people have a Loooooooooooooottttt of freedom and a looooottttt of respect for the traditions of other countries...

Now if you come into France because your own country doesn't even know that the word "freedom" exits in a dictionnary , mostly for economical reasons, and , just exited from the plane you become to claim.. "France is a Sh*t, all people here are just Racists....we are treated Badly....."
I just ask to them....are you really sure that you want to integrate this country ?and I just have to say to them: "You are just fucking liers!!""...

Sorry but i'm really upset. France isn't The States, France isn't South Africa!!!
A LOT of things are made for immigrated people....for people , in general , who have not too much money....

Okay i know this incomplete post could look very HARD....but i have really no time now to developp...andd i'm upset by the manipulation of all this bombing problem by Intellectual journalists or unhonest politic men who absolutely BLIND they eyes from the reality.
Ideology is good but haas its limits too.

I just give you 2 exemples:
I have in my class a little pupil. He is originary from Mali. I think they are 6 children in the family with one mum who isn't working.
He lives with another wife who has too 6 or 7 children.
Do you know where these kiddies were during the riots in Paris? The week end, they took the subway to go to 30, 25 km in other suburbs to watch as a spectacle the riots....because "dixit" they thought it was great and funny to look the cars burning...okay it's their right to chhose a such show to show to their children.

During the next holidays, they will all go FOR FREE in the Mountain , for skying....
All will be paid by the social side of the town..
Me I'm in the middle class...if i want to send my kiddie in the same place , with the town, I would have to pay for one week between 500 and 700 euros.
So they are 6 children X 500 euros= 3 000 euros.

They have no work, they have a free flat, they don't pay taxes, they live with social indemnities and they go in holidays for free to the snow and ....they complain....i don't say other people I say THOSE specific persons.
I've never seen such wonderful smiles on the faces of these kiddies than when they explain how their friends are burning the bins for the fire men come and they could launch stones on them for fun!!

Yesterday evening I was in a shop to buy food in Paris ; A blond woman was shopping ...3 young guys -around 13, 15 years old- entered in the shop...
Not to buy something, just to have fun in disturbing people...so they have pushed FREELY and voluntary the woman...and after they were playing ti hide themselves from the security guards...the woman tried to speak with them..and told them "Why are you acting like that? You want to be respected and you don't respect yourselves other people"...she was 40 years old, she spoke to the kiddies in saying "VOUS" ( it's the polite way of you in french)
They answered to her in a very threating and agressive way and said "You're just a dirty racist!! Take care of you , we are waiting you outside the shop, Bitch!" (they used the "tu" which is the way of "you" you use with friends , damily or people you know).
The woman was scared and asked if a security guard could bring her to her house...

2 years ago, NO SECURITY GUARDS were in this shop...now they need it cause they have agresssions from teenagers all the days. and the cashers are themselves immigrated people but they are disgusted by a such behaviour.

So I don't think you can speak about "IMMIGRATION" in a general way in France.
You have several KINDS of immigrations.
The ones who have made the riots in France are a part of delinquant younth of immigration (they are almost teenagers in gangs) BUT this phenomen was USED by the media and politics to translate a problem linked to ALL the IMMIGRATED PEOPLE.

So I'm sorry to tell that but the ones who've made the riots in France belong to the criminal part of immigration ( sorry for my english I mean the teenagers or people between 13 and 30 years old but who live thanks to SOCIAL AIDS + steal (mobile phones, we call that in french :'tombé du camion" 'fallen from the truck"..it means all the brand clothes or computer or tv or camera which are stolen whe they are brought by trucks to the shop and are sold after "hand" to "hand" with a shorte price" ) .

It isn't the one who try to integrate the society by their studies or even simple jobs.

BUT the first part indeed, by its actions for FUN ( to be a hero as in the american movies) or for its own financial interests BRINGS PREJUDICE To THE IMAGE of the other immigration which really wants to be integrated!!!

crni, I've said "no" at the beginning of this post to you ...but indeed I have the same fears as you;..
DO you know what they say right now at the radio???
They say that these last months the potential people who could Vote for FRONT NATIONAL ( Extreme Nationalist Party) has increased!!!!

That's why I'm fucking UPSET!!!.... Because people here are AFRAID.....not about the difference of culture....but because of the criminality which has increased a LOOOOOOttttt these last years....
And they mix the criminal part od immigration with the all immigration!...

I'm fucking UPSET because i don't want this party drives my country!!!

So people claims we are such racists....the sentence of France is "Liberty,Egality, Brotherwood"
about EGALITY.....some complain it doesn't exisst here...I agree that it mght be more difficult to find a job when you have an arabic name than a french name....but in the same time, if a young teenager-30 years old -the style who was in the previous riot- breaks freely telephone places, windows, burns cars for fun , steal sradios in breaking car...he will get LESS problem with the justice than if ME I do 10% of what they do...
I would get a lot more problems with the LAW..here.

SO I could ask myself, is there EGALITY here?

To resume:
1/France isn't SOUTH AFRICA about respect of the human rights and social aids
2/ You can't speak about ONE IMMIGRATION IN GENERAL: you have sevral different types of immigration
3/WHen you arrive into a country you have RIGHTS..I agree.....BUT YOU HAVE DUTIES TOO.....one of this duty is just to respect the Law.

The problem is that a part of immigration wants the RIGHTS without aplying themselves the DUTIES.
ANd this is THIS PART(issue from the immigration and who prefers the money won easely than the efford of job or studies) who BRING the most negative aspect , sight on GENERAL COMMUNITY of IMMIGRATION.

I'll come back....cause it's very long to explain and I think France has a specific mentality so a specific problem with immigration.