USA - General discussion (Part 1)


Nope, My first language is Spanish.
And im not from America. Im from Mexico living in America.

You were born in America and live in America and speak English as well as anyone else in America. At least you have said you were born in America and Speak it that is. Anyways. I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my statements but it does upset me when people make Americans sound like they think they're superior for loving their country. There is a difference between supporting you're country and government and agreeing with them. I support America becuase it is my home, I don't agree with the choices made by the government but just because I do support them dosen't mean I am a bad person. Thats all my point was.

I never said i was born in America. I dont know where you got that from, I've always said i was born in Mexico.

This is completely irrelevant. I stated numerous times when we debated about your legal status as a citizen in America. You told me that you were born in America in Texas and that you grew up speaking English. Even if that isn't the case, you've lived in America for a LONG number of years, and you are fluent in the language.

I never said i was born in Texas, i still dont know how you got that. Besides i dont have to be born in the U.S to have a legal status. And I never told you I grew up speaking English, I didnt start speaking English till I was in the 6th grade because I've always been in ESL classes before. And even in that particular case come on, Its Texas, where most of the population only speaks spanish, its all over the place. Heck there are even stores that have nothing but spanish. Yes I've been here for a Long number of years, but its not the same growing up learning English as growing up already knowing english. Both of your parents are English speakers, my parents didnt know English, they had to learn it to have their business.

Thinking of going to the States to check if the things are as bad as some of you say.

First of all..you didnt read right..
Second, I live in Texas, i know what is happening here ok..most of the population speaks spanish, and yes they also speak other languages.
Third "my parents didnt know English, they had to learn it to have their business" I said THEY HAD TO LEARN ENGLISH!!!. Meaning they learned it in order to run their business
Fourth, I moved here to the U.S when i was 4..incase you dont know what ESL means..its English as a Second Language, i was learning it. Meaning i was in classes that spoke spanish to me most of the time. Its not very hard to become a citizen, specially when you have a family member whose is already a citizen. My dad moved to the U.S way before my sister, mom and I moved here. He was already a citizen and married to my mom. We decided to leave our country to be with my father, and open up a business. My father was able to since he has been here alot longer than my sister, my mother, and I. I seriously dont know how you got "Teacher". I told you back in Mexico she was a nurse..by the way Catering is a business.
To make things shorter and more understandable, My dad has been going in and out of the U.S alot, before my mother had me he was in the U.S already a citizen. We moved to the U.S Huston first then moved to DFW 1 month later. Where they decided to have their own business And you're still with the "Iraq" thing? like i said before, i spell it however i feel like it..ok

PS: I've lived in the U.S for 14 years

It isn't, on the contrary it is quite a great place to be with some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. How great, or how nice depends on where in the States you end up. (IMHO, stay the hell away from Pennsylvania).

The only thing that got to me when visiting there is noticing that racial segregation is still alive and kicking.

Yup, thats true. Some Mexicans can be assholes, just like whites and blacks. Most whites are very nice, and very respectfull, if you go to an all Mexican/Black (lower class) place dont be surprised if you get shot at, well at least here arroud where I live. Some places its very peacefull, calm, and enjoyable ^-^

That comment itself was racial segregation.



I've lived in big cities and I'm not sure what you meant by it powerpuff. Could you elaborate so I understand a bit more?

How is it racial segregation if its true, im not saying it in sarcasm or anything. I have nothing against my own race or blacks, some of my friends are black and they will tell you the same thing.

when are you coming? come visit MEEEE :D

this is so fucking ridiculous - how many times do we have to say that being in different states in america is like being in a different country!
and please, stop presenting South Dakota as something great - i am sorry, but for the main part it is a big, steaming, pile of SHIT! and i am saying that from personal experience, i am probably the only other person here that has actually been there ;)

Cools... You effing Rock!! :coctail: I'd give you rep points, but I can't at the moment... but they are definitely on the way to you :D

My coolie baby, come to join us to N.Y , the 20th of february to help me to make walk the baby Olga in the streets of New York when it will be -1° outside...if not she will stay in her hotel bedroom with the covers to the nose....she needs a slavic pulsion....Da!! :D

*me want to go to the Little Odessa*...da! I like gangsta ;)

nath, I caaaaaant! I am in school and cant take long trips (esp. because i am teaching now as well)...so come to CALIFORNIA! It is way warmer here anyway :D

now to talyubittu - dude, stop listing those towns becuase it is not in your favour! :lol:
lets see:
Cleveland, Ohio is SO fucking midwest! Jacksonville, Fl, ouch - east and south east are two different things ;)

wow, you've been to quite the cities: Chicago, large city, but still a MIDWEST large city. Minneapolis :laugh: MIDWEST city... Atlanta... south! Charlotte..WOW fucking SOUTH again! to tell you the truth, south might actually be worse that midwest, so shhhhhh

yes, sir! Imma goinna keem them mouths shut! but dont use that horse language at me, 'cause i aint living there with you guys and those damn horse buckles you like to wear up there http://www.bucklesofestes.com/horses.htm :lol:

darling, i already feel bad enough chatting for my entertainment with a kiddie, but since i am selfish i will tell ya, i've lived in more places you can count on your fingers and toes - anywhere from communism to your god damn midwest shit to the complete oposite. oh yeah, and i have traveled plenty, lets say definitelly way more than you have.... kisses honey, just dont be such a bully, cause i bully back them ones like you! LoL

Though I can certainly understand your frustation towards the South and the Mid-West, coolasfcuk and Khartoun2004 (especially gathering from the last two presidential elections and their unfounded resentment to the "liberal elites"), I don't think it helps to disparage everybody in your country that don't reside anywhere near the coast. Especially when you are doing it to the people that vote Democrat. Just because a city isn't San Fransisco, Boston, New York or L.A. doesn't mean it can't be fun, interesting, or even cultured. In fact, anybody can have fun anywhere in the world with the help from cool locals and an imagination. Granted in the Middle-East, it would be more convenient if you were a man. Nonetheless, you don't need the figurative big glowing neon signs that point to "fun."

I had a more exciting time visiting Madison, Wisconsin (freaking Wisconsin, you cannot get more Mid-West than that) than I ever had in an ultra-blue, near-the-coast state like New Jersey. And I won't even mention Pennsylvania.

That being said, New York was awesome and New Yorkers even moreso, I hope you enjoy every bit of it nath and forre.

And Talyubittu, I find it hard to believe that you don't see any racial segregation in any of the places you have been in. Either you just don't notice it when it is there (which I can't really fault you in) or you're in complete denial. Judging from your posts, you seem like the type of person that loves their country too much to recognize any apparent faults it may harbour.

Lol. I know my country is NOT perfect by any means. But I get extra defensive when people go over the edge and say things they don't even know about. Like American politics. And then just for spite they run off saying that places are boring. Boring is an oppinion. I enjoy living in a place that pays above the national income, has top education, excelent health care and medical facilities, it's a clean place and I wouldn't move to the east or the west coast if given the option. America is a place made up of many cities and each of them offers importance. I'm sorry my city is so boring to you and so completely unworthy of being in existance. Perhaps thats why we're in the top 6 in the nation for Emergencey Response from D.C. and many other things. I know the USA is not perfect, but it's not a horrible place to live like some of you make it out to be. I should know - I live here, remember?


And thank you for your post PowerPuff. I'm glad someone dosent think I'm trying to be an arrogant prick for no reason.

PowerPuff Grrl, :kwink: you are talking to someone who has lived in the mid-west long enough... and as happy as i am that i left it, i also would not deny i had great friends and met a lot of intelligent people.
now.... one, the fact is, it just happens that in urban areas and along the coast is where the intelligent population is in way higher persentage... two, i just responded to some pretty funny comments and as i said in the post above, i respond to those the same way they were written - aka i bias the reply as i please

ta-da :p

Talyubittu, are you kidding me? all i think is that you are ... let see... my guess would b e between 15 and 17 :heh: that's why i said i feel guilty chatting with you
and i really wanna see your answer to the race prejudice in S.D. , because man... if you tell me there is any.... LOL!

Age dosen't prove inteligence. If you cannot recognize that people come from all over the place and represent many different things. Some of the greatest people to influence American history came from these so called places you find "unimportant".

And no - I do not see any racial prejudice in SD. Not where I live at least.

LoL now you are putting words in my mouth

where did i say those states are 'unimportant'?

ha, you are humouring me! lets for the fun of it compare statistics:

Where you live, aka Sioux Falls, SD almost 90% of the population is WHITE! (according to the 2000 census - last completely calculated)
http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/popIn...locIndex=12976

Where I live less than 50% of the population is WHITE! (according to the same 2000 census)
http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/coun...iscoCounty.htm

please, recognize that we arent talking about #, but persentage :heh:
so what diversity are we talking about.... diversity in the belt buckles? :laugh:

oh, and age wasnt about intelligence, but it;s about maturity and experience and common sense..live a little kid.. and travel a little :heh:

p.s. just to add more diversity comparison, since this is a gay-ish forum:

Where you live, people in same sex partnerships: score 56 where a score of 100 is the national AVERAGE.. you're like 50% below the AVERAGA! WOW http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/gayIn...locIndex=12976

Where I live: score 479 :D http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/gayIn...locIndex=10816

and you cant say that it's san francisco, it's the gayest, because look at providence, Ma, their score is: 2292 :lol: speak about gay town! then again, their diversity is limited, they dont have enough straight people LoL http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/gayIn...?locIndex=3099

SEE... I told you Providence was the gayest city in the US!! :lol: SD guy... if you really want to see diversity come to my extremely over the top gay city. Hell come visit the entire state of Rhode Island, it's infested with Queer People :laugh:

:coctail: Thanks for making my night Cools.

oh thats right, Rhode Island, i dunno why i thought Ma LoL ... and to think i almost went to school at RISD ... that would've been fun, eh LoL

the questions is... where are the most femmie gay girls in usa... i think L.A. is on top of what ive seen so far ... hows providence, K?

Well, to give credit to Talyubittu, cools, you can't have racial segregation if there are no black people to segregate.
;)

According to this article (halfway down) however, South Dakota does have some issues with the Aboriginals and the state's growing attraction of White supremacists. But that isn't a problem that is unique to South Dakota. I'd even venture to say that Canadians, specifically central Canadians and the Quebecois, are highly susceptible to harassing the First Nations (not so much with the attracting skinheads, thank God).

But tell me what you thought of cities like Jacksonville, Cleveland, Minneapolis, and Charlotte. You'd be hard pressed to gloss over those cities. Chicago I have been in (there was segregation but at the same time some wealthy ass Black people too) to and Atlanta is predominantly Black.

This interesting site has charts and percentages of how segregated each city is by calculating how exposed each person belonging to a race is to people of other races and to his/her own. Thus the greater the difference, the more segragated.
For example Cleveland, Ohio you can see that Black people will mostly be exposed to other Black people and Whites to other Whites even though Cleveland (judging from the last column) is marginally more populated by Black people than anyone else.

This isn't what I based my personal observations on and quite frankly I really don't care if people are/aren't exposed to other races. What gets to me is the institutionalized, embedded racism that has permeated from the pre-"Brown vs. The Board of Education"/Jim Crow era of race relations.

:lol: you're right, cause the 3 black people that live there are ropped off and have to be home schooled ;)

I think this discussion about inteligence distribution favouring coastlines (or anykind of geographical separation for that matter - North-South as well) is a bit skewed. Even if we're talking about about averages. It'd probably make a bit more sense to discuss possible average inteligence fluctuations in bustling metropolises with +500.000 inhabitants as opposed to rural areas. And this probably goes for the world as a whole, not just the USA. Large masses of people living in relatively confined spaces tends to shape the populace into an entity that's not just more inteligent, cultural and spiritual but also less prone to bigotry and narrow-mindness. Just goes to show you humans develop better and faster in large "herds".
This probably has something to do with educational system and people leaving smaller communities to go study in larger cities. Simply brain-drain. We had a nice representation of that in Slovenia before the world wars when everyone who was smart enough (and could afford it) went to study in Vienna and got germanized in the process. There was simply no city important or large enough to host a renowned university. Hence the nation's decline in any kind of scientific or cultural activity was striking. And this intelectual eclipse lasted for as long as Ljubljana University didn't get it's proper international status as a serious educational institution.

But yeah... on average I don't see why a large city in the midwest - say Chicago - would be any less enlightened than cities like Boston or San Francisco.


Offtop:
Talyubittu since you're obviously failing to see my mod remarks I'm going to try this one more time. It's "OPINION" damn it!&/%$

Offtop:

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddie (Post 337663) I think this discussion about inteligence... Talyubittu since you're obviously failing to see my mod remarks I'm going to try this one more time. It's "OPINION" damn it!&/%$

Freddie, if it's so much fun to point at other people's spelling mistakes, I want to join:

[:znaika:] Intelligence is not based on Intel, although pretty smart guys there, but on lat. inter-legere, rl > ll (assimilation, you know!) so correctly: intel-ligence [/:znaika:]
*hides from wrath of the intellectuals*

haku: Argos, where were you when Talyubittu was trashing another member for spelling Iraq wong?

Offtop:
Washing my own dirty clothes, didn't know that I had to send some kids to the corner!

freddie: Yeah, what Haku said. I apologize for my mistake but it was a typo. His is reccuring. And it wouldn't be remotely as annoying as it was if he didn't badger another member with proper English spelling of Iraq.

A lot has happened since 2000. Being it was seven years ago, quite a bit has change. Not only has the city expanded in culture. But the population has grown as well. Just becuase I don't live in an area with as many things as places you live does not mean I do not comprehend them. You seem to live in a different place than I do but we both understand English. So why do you talk to me like I am a two year old. Racial segregation isn't big here...it's not a problem. Homosexual's are also not common here, but it dosent mean they don't exist. we have everything any othe town does. Even if we aren't as big and flashy as where you come from.

I understand that it's also an oppinion freddie. I've stated that a billion times. Coolasfuck seems to need a reason to belittle me. Just because she is from a more urban area than I am does not mean I am stupid. I'm sure I have a much better understanding of American political themes than she does. She can look up statistics from a census 7 years ago. Thats nothing special When you have an understanding for how somthing works is when you are able to relate to it. She dosent need to tell me the demographics about where I live.......I live there remember? I know what they are. I'm not trying to be rude, but it's a bit annoying when her arrogance is speaking for a matter she knows little about. She has never lived here and never will. She has no right to make critical remarks about where I live nor more than I have the right to make them about where she does. Obviosuly I'm content with where I live, otherwise I would leave, I don't understand what she has to prove by saying my city is pointless becuase it's not what she considers a wonderous place. If she wants to start an argument thats fine, but don't jump on me for defending myself against an oppinion that was stated to START an argument.

And Haku: I was not thrasing him. I was completely baffled by the fact that he's lived in the USA for 14 years, claims to have taken AP Government and had no clue who Saddam Hussein was, where Iraq was or even how to spell it. It's not like I decided to go crazy on him for a typo.


Thank you. It's nice to see someoen recognizes that I have lived in places other than where I currently reside. Perhaps these reasons you are discussing are why I left?

It's a discussion board. Meant for people who want to share their opinions with others. Hence it's ill advised for you to take such things personally. Especially when posted on a forum which deals mainly with two Russian pseudo-lesbian pop stars.
You probably have a lot of insight on geopolitical circumstances in your State and it's near vicinity, yet sometimes one needs to look to an outsider to give a non-biased view. Though most of the time the truth is somewhere in the middle - hence it helps to share different viewpoints on a topic.

You presented your arguments in a very harsh manner and Coolz returned the favour. It's not my place to judge who's right or wrong, but one thing I know is that she didn't "belittle" you personalty, but rather expressed her views (though granted in a very straight-forward, non-PC fashion). You two just have clashing opinions. But you know the old saying... OPINIONS are like assholes. Everyone has one.

I disagree. She's telling me I have no clue what diversity is because according to a census by her, I don't live in an area she considers major, not to mention blatant other things going on that shes throwing around. This isn't even what the topic is about. Why don't we get back on topic before we all start arguing, or just drop the entire discussion here? Deal?

:lol: pleeeeeeeeease, keep your OPPINIONS and i will keep my OPPINIONS :lol:
obviously you arent listening to what other people are saying, so why should i listen to what you are saying :heh:

that's right, you know everything and i know nothing, its ok, keep up that OPPINION, ok? i like that OPPINION..yeeeeeeeah, i agree with that OPPINION!
now ciao and

Okay this is going nowhere. No more personal messages. This isn't Irc. Use PM if you have a personal argument to settle. Back on topic please.

I can't say much about the USA, except from the view of an international observer. My time there was too brief to say anything conclusive and it only involved visiting two states. I have to say though. People in the two states I visited were as or more different than people in different European countries. And mind you these were neighbouring states. The only thing they share in common is history and language. Otherwise things feel entirely different on so many levels. So any kind of generatization made about a vast federation like that is totally delusional. Just as silly as making general statements about "Europeans" Offtop:
(which reminds me... a friend of mine from New Zealand is convinved all Euro peeps are blatantly promiscuous, wtf?! :p )

Infact I'd even go as far as to say people in certain regions of Europe that are separated with national boundaries (for instance mediteranean people in Spain, France, Portugal, Italy...) have much more in common (culturaly and sometimes even genetically) than two Americans from two different federal states.

Here in Texas, we say "Howdy" very often:)
Did I mention we ride horses?

US climate scientists pressured on climate change

US scientists were pressured to tailor their reports on global warming to fit the Bush administration's climate change scepticism, a congressional committee heard on Tuesday 30 January. In some cases, this occurred at the request of a former oil-industry lobbyist.

Full article here


Nothing surprising from a country that won't even ratify the Kyoto protocol even though it's the biggest polluter on the planet.
Map of the Kyoto protocol ratification for information.

You seem to confuse "country" with "government." This government has lied about global warming precisely to avoid ratifying the Kyoto Protocol. So it isn't exactly two separate things and it isn't a national trend, it is a governmental trend.

Clinton signed the protocol and even shamed Republican President Nixon created the Department of the Environment. Americans themsleves are in fact environmentally aware and conscious, though some moreso than others.

In any case, it may be too early to tell but I thought it may be interesting to see into the 2008 Presidential elections; the only thing that isn't so totally depressing about the States right now.

Democratic candidates:
Sen. Hilary Clinton
Sen. Barak Obama
Former Sen. John Edwards
Sen. Joe Biden

Republican candidates:
Sen. John McCain
Sen. Sam Brownback
Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani
Sen. Mike Huckabee


Good God let Obama win it.

The only Republican I would ever consider voting for would be Rudy Giuliani because he is liberal on many important social issues and he's just a great man in general. NY Conservatives are very different from the rest of the republicans in the US. But I would only vote for him if Edwards won the Primary... I despise that man.

I'm currently leaning toward Barak Obama, I love Sentor Clinton but she's to polarizing even in the Party to secure a win for the Democrats in 2008. Obama has a much better chance given the Republican conpetition. I've also seen him speak and he reminds me of President Clinton, he grabs your attention and makes you listen to what he's saying. So yeah OBAMA 2008!!

The problem with Hillary Clinton - don't get me wrong I adore her - is that people either love her or they hate her... Period. So I don't like her chances of stealing the independent vote away from a Republican like John McCain or Giuliani. It this point in time, it's really all about the independent voters. Party affliates will vote their party most likely with very little flip-flopping and conservatives hate her more than anyother liberal other than maybe Speaker Pelosi.

Ok, this all look rather alien from a European point of view, none is really left wing (and some are scarily far right wing), no wonder we don't understand each other, our political spectrums have little in common.


Unrelated by revealing: crazy paranoia in the US, lol.

LOL Haku, i caught about.....2% of that. Elaborate :)

Yeah, like i said, we don't understand each other (or it's my poor English).

Anyway, what i meant is that most democrat politicians who are considered 'left' in the US would end up in center right parties in Europe (and most republicans would end up in extreme right parties), European socialist parties (what is called 'left' here) have no equivalent in the US.


Some comic relief, and the retard leads the most powerful country in the world. (Thanks Rach for the link :kwink: )