Opinions on the expression of chauvinism, racism, homophobia, etc.
 

haku: This forum sets limits to the expression of certain opinions like chauvinism, racism, homophobia, etc. This thread is an outlet to express opinions about those limits and where the line is drawn between what's acceptable and what's not.
For information, a similar discussion happened three years ago, except that this time many people were asking for stricter limitations to the expression of homophobia and racism.


QueenBee: Continuation of this thread that got very off-topic after the closing of this thread.


[nonconfrontational tone] to you it is. to me its blatantly "discriminating" and personally insulting. would it be too much to ask if the thread be closed? [/off]

Rachel: Satire of religion, politics etc is not the same thing as direct insults based on race/gender/orientation.

first and foremost, what hate thread? i simply ridiculed male genitalia and sexual performance. nothing wrong with that. it's a personal opinion at the very least. secondly, i post no hate. this thread is obviously different. this is an analogy the symbolizes something that people think but do not say. sure, the undertones can be offensive, but it can't be SO offensive that people get upset over it. after all, its message is subtle, not overt, and this is its very nature. because the undertones of the message are cast through humor albeit not of the light variety, this is simply a comical and suggestive critique on religion. so, it is not the same thing as what i posted. i came right out and said, "cock is disgusting" and people get heated and upset. now, had i presented my message in a humorous "it's not only the size of the sausage, but what it's attached to that is disgusting" fashion, people would scoff at best and roll their eyes, rather than close the thread, call the thread uber feminist (despite not know that that really means) and that i hate men. if anything, it is one giant example of how and why i am not at all attracted to men, intimately or physically. that is not hate. it is what i am. ok, getting off topic here..in conclusion, these two threads are not the same because one is dripping in satire and the other is blunt. which means, if you speak your mind, the thread will be closed. and if you present your message with satirical overtones, people will get a kick out of it. :done:

which is why i would like to have this thread closed. people closed your thread [to which i took no offense] for unjust reasons. forre didnt like the opinions being expressed, which i respect, but why isnt she allowed to make her own opinion? but if thats how its got to be then fine. which is why i would like this thread to be closed. i find it DIRECTLY and personally insulting, satirical undertone or not. and every comment commending this thread is just another stab. do i have to have a million rep points to have my opinion and feelings count? or is it the little stars??

to be honest, i dont give a damn about this thread. like everyone else i can choose not to read it. my point is, if your going to keep this thread open then keep lux's open. if your going to keep lux's thread closed then this thread should be closed on the same grounds.

says who? to me its exactly the same. my religion is a part of me just like my race, gender or orientation. just because religion means nothing to you, it doesnt mean that it shouldn't matter to me. no matter what form its in, and insult is an insult and hurts just as much.

race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status r equally protected in the modern world

Ok, here it goes. Who is offended here directly because a person was born like that (like in Lux's thread), please RAISE YOUR HAND!

This is a satire. Try to see the difference, ok?

P.S. I will not open Lux's thread, no matter what. The reason is simple - we need to draw a line somewhere, ok?

so before it can be considered "descrimination" whatever is being descriminated against has to be innate? what?

i see the difference, but just because it has a damn punch line im NOT allowed to be offended?!

i understand you have to draw a line..and i consider this to be over that line which is why id like this thread to be closed.

Pretty much so. Where is discrimination? Does it say Christianity is better than a sucky Buddhism for instance (sorry guys for a lousy example)? Does it draw any comparison with that? Please specify. What exactly are you screaming about here?

1.) I think the text in question was relatively neutral, not exposing any religion out there. Yeah, Rachel did compare it to christianity (which would granted be an obvious reference in this case), but no religion is mentioned in the text at all. It's more a satirical jab at dogmas in general, which could apply to almost all popular monotheistic religions (judaism and islam not excluded) out there and numerous politheistic ones. It doesn't discrimminate against anyone. It just shows a point of reference of an atheist.

2.) I'll go on the record here and say I wasn't really offended by Lux's thread, but rather annoyed because of it's sheer stupidity and somewhat obvious aim to provoke. We had another member doing the same shit even more blatantly so I'm sure you all get the gist of it. That wasn't a subtle satire of males, that was just bland i-think-men-suck-and-imma-show-you-why-by-raising-some-ridiculous-points-i-made-up-this-afternoon exercise. I'm not even saying a good satire about men and their deficiencies couldn't be made. It most definitely could. And it could be clever and witty. But that was just bad taste. How can one argue such dubious shit without feeling redundant for doing so? Think about it... try comming up with an argument against these two things a) God Exists. It is true because the Bible tells us so. and b) Semen is gross. Know what I mean?

Offtop:
I won't comment on the thread being closed, though.

Religion or belief in general is something you as a person choose to believe in. Christians believe that everyone who aren't christians are wrong and will burn in eternal damnation. Heh, okay, maybe not directly, but you know what I mean :) Even so, that's okay ... non-believers don't take it personally. But when someone makes an example to question your belief in general - not an attack on you as person - you shouldn't take it personally either.

Now, race and sex are things you DON'T choose. It's something you always have to live with - if you like it or not. Most people like it. Hehe, some very rare examples change "their outside".
To question these things as better or worse than anything else would be VERY wrong, and therefor a very different topic.

Now, I believe in the equal rights for every single person on this earth, and respect for religion, sex, race and sexuality. But there's a huge difference between innocent satire and direct insults. Hey, people joke about sexuality and races all the time. You don't think about it, but it excists. It just isn't bad, and most important thing of all; people don't take it personally!

I think people should be more openminded about humorous things and try not to care too much, but again raise a big voice against discrimination - like direct, stupid and meaningless insults just because of frustration, anger and hatred. Now, let me add that I'm one of those who actually thought that some of Lux's points was funny :) But I understand the desition that was made. A similar desition based on the same reasons on this thread would not be correct tho...

I can see why madeldoe would find this offensive. It's basically equating the love of God to kissing some guy's ass and that believers don't follow the word of God for altruistic purposes but rather for their own selfish interests, among other things.

If this were something aimed to a particular group of people within Christianity [cough]AmericanChristianFundamentalists[/cough] then I don't think anybody would have a problem with it. However this is applied to every Christian, fundamentalist or not, which includes a moderate like madeldoe.

And does it really matter if she chose Christianity or not? I mean, technically we kind of chose the country we're living in; even if we were born into it, we could always change. But if a thread opened up saying, oh I don't know, "Canada is the worst Goddamn country on face of Earth" or some shit (don't get any ideas!) I'd be offended. Deep down we are all just a tad bit nationalistic and to insult something somebody identifies with would be to insult the people him/herself.

PS: You know I love you right Lux? I was kind of taken aback at what was said in your thread. I however, was waaaay too freaking offended by people who equated that to being feminist.
In any case, because there are a number of males here Lux's thread got locked. If most of us considered Christianity as much as madeldoe then yeah this thread too would be locked up. I am well aware that it was a woman who locked up the thread, but I still think the statement holds true... to a degree.

But Lux's thread was more in that sense, seeing as it stated that "Women are just better, women smell better, dicks are ugly" - here nobody said that Christians are worse than everyone else, plus the content of the post itself never said that it was actually Christianity (although, yes, it "obviously" was - but it was said in a more witty way, if the other thread would have been the same, I would have seen it only as a little interesting read and a joke). I know that Rachel made the title include Christianity, but the content in the post, which I believe was not written by her, never did say so.

Sorry if no-one understood what I said, my writing has lately been pretty bad.

Also, I don't think anyone or very few were actually OFFENDED by what Lux wrote, but I think it was written in a dumb way. It wasn't witty, clever or funny at all, just.... stupid.

I agree up to an extent, however this text doesn't explicitly imply selfishness per se. It questions religion in a humorous way and as I said before expresses an atheist viewpoint of religious dogmas. There's really no comparison with Lux's thread imo. There's a world of difference.

Actually... there are way more females here than there are males and I hardly believe any male would get OFFENDED over stuff like this (even if it was put forward in such a blatant way). I for one seriously had no problems with it personally. It didn't offend me in the slightest. I'd also say no one would be offended with a thread entitled "women do it better" that'd actually had something clever to say (hey, I'm the first one to admit women do a lot of stuff way better than men. :p) I think what got people shaking their heads was the sheer outrageousness of those points she made. Like I said... there's hardly any point to argue them. Anything said in reply would be redundant.

The title of this thread indicates it is about Christianity and Rachel concluded with remarks (that is if it was her remark's at all) at the end to not believe in the Bible because it doesn't make sense. This is about Christianity. But for the sake of argument, let's just say it isn't. This thread would then be an attack on faith alone which implicates every religion and would therefore be moreso insulting.

I don't think it really matters whether the joke is comparing one religion with others. It's basically calling a particular one as bullshit and that's still offensive to some people.

I never said Lux's post wasn't offensive.

ETA:
"If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars"?
This is pretty darn explicit, less so than Lux, but still nonetheless.
Whether or not it is funny is a matter of taste but I think the message is pretty clear.

I know that there are more females than there are male, but the fact that there are a significant amount of men browsing these forums does affect how the site is managed. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that madeldoe is the only open Christian is the entire English Forum, if the ratio of Christians to Athiests were that of Female to Male than it is pretty reasonable to assume that Lux's thread would still be open.

Though for the past couple of years this site has been administered exceptionally well, I do find that this site has a history of leaving hateful posts unchecked because nobody of the group targeted were there to speak up.

PowerPuff Grrl, so if the thread name was changed and the comment at the end was removed would it be different or not?

And btw, no I never wrote any of that, it was just a copy & paste. :rolleyes:

Imo it's really not. It's just a metaphore. Carrot and a stick theory. And to be honest... that IS the essence of religious dogmas as they are preached about today... and imo that's what Rachel had in mind when she spoke about "the bible". The fact that religions didn't neccesary originate as carrot and a stick affairs is also true... and yes.. I do believe there are people out there who're religious for all the right reasons. Bu those really shouldn't be offended at this thread, since it's exposing only one side of christian dogma. The side which themselves more than likely don't feel comfortable with either. I still claim the text jabs blind faith rather than one's own personal beliefs.

Yes it is possible that madeldoe is the only one of this particular interest group, so she spoke up. I'm not saying she doesn't have a right to feel offended (eventhough the potential for anyone to get offended is vastly more remote than in Lux's thread) If she does feel so she's welcomed to explain to us all the good parts of christian beliefs. But trust me on this one... Lux's thread closing was not in any way connected to any male interest groups expressing discontent. It was more to do with the fact that it was redundant and not on an appropriate discussion level. It had absolutely no potential to evolve into an interesting debate. It did have a huge potential though to evolve into a flame war... and I don't think any males would be involved in the flaming, to tell you the truth.

But therein lies the problem, the joke doesn't make any distinction between the hypocrites and the genuine believers; the Bible is false so everybody who follows it are duped into becoming shrewd people looking out for themselves.

ETA:
Oh, I'm not saying the Lux's thread was unfairly locked because of some male-insecurity driven agenda or anything, or that it was unfairly locked at all. It's just that because there are enough males on this site for people to consider and that if any had a problem with it their disapproval would be heard and would carry more weight. Whereas, madeldoe is the only open Christian on site and so her disapproval wouldn't be as heard nor would it carry as much weight seeing as most of us (myself included) have a particular distrust towards religion.

The only difference it has made is that it now includes the entire Judeo-Christian-Islamic axis; that's quite a feat there!

That's the thing with satire. It's meant for inteligent people. And inteligent people will be able to differentiate between a satirical critique of certain aspects of religion and blatant attack on one's personal integrity and beliefs. It's a fine line I admit, but one that wasn't really crossed in this case. If anything the text was aimed at fundamentalists who take everything written in the bible literaly, more often than not extracting only excerpts which suit them. True believers have faith because it's in them... it's engraved in their moral fibre... they're not believers because they've read a few excerpts from an ancient book, or believe what their friend told them like John and Mary. That's one positive aspect one could extract from the text if you look at it closely enough.

It wouldn't and wasn't unheard. As you've noticed I'm not at all disencouraging her protestive posts or even ridiculing them. Up to an extent I can even understand why she'd be offended. But what she wanted was the lock up of the entire thread and comparing a satire thread which could be mildly offensive with another thread which was closed for other reasons as well... which is a whole different ball game.

So madeldoe and I are idiots!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I keed, I keed.
I'm just trying to get people to see where madeldoe is coming from.

In any case, that's the same reasoning Lux used. So I guess the closure of satirical threads can be determined by how funny and how well comprehensive they are rather than how offensive they may be to some.

I'm no lawyer but uh, that's setting up bad precedence there.

I disagree with that. Although it is true that madeldoe is the only open Christian here, I don't think the thread was locked because the men here thought it was inappropiate, or that there are enough men here to think so. Most people actually did (think so). It was dumb, and like freddie said, did not have a chance to lead to discussion. I don't see how we can compare these two threads, at all.

I thought there was room for discussion. Lux was very prepared to indicate that it was meant as a joke and I myself was about to post about how Forre and/or nath were dead wrong about insisting that it was a very feminist approach to sexuality.

Some racist things were uttered in the past but were never really dealt with because there were not enough Black people to speak up, though admittedly the site was really young and there were about two moderators. Still however, this behaviour has continued with some anti-Semitic posts uttered here and there and considering that ypsidan04 is the only overt Jew and only posts once in a while, anti-Semiticism was tolerated. Same with anti-Islamic statements and since rosh and xmad are the only Muslims here, with xmad not really giving a shit, that only makes one person and rosh's presence is ever disappearing. And now with Christianity and madeldoe.

Now contrast that with homophobic and anti-male remarks stated and you'll see that there is a direct correlation between how posts perceived as hateful are dealt with and the demographic of posters. Not to say that any of you guys are anti-whatever, just that you'll speak up if something affects you particularly and most of you have the benefit of being backed-up by other people equally offended.

Not that I'm saying it should be locked, but that we shouldn't be deciding what thread needs to be closed based on how many people are offended, or at least turned off, by it. If half of us, or even a quarter of us were as Christian as madeldoe would this thread would be closed too?
I tend to think so.

I understand where she's coming from and I completely supoport her right to stand up for her personal religious beleifs if she felt they were being challenged. With valid arguments though. Not requests to close down the thread, with arguments that some other thread was closed down for identical reasons (which as I said, is not the case).

Wait... Lux said what? Did she imply her thread was satirical in any way? I'm sorry but I don't see any satirical or even humorous aspect in her thread. It was just a collection of absurd (mostly factually incorrect, sometimes completely subjective) statements which were presented as fact. No satiric value in that whatsoever, is there?

I don't get it. Why do you think so? There are a bunch of males here and none of them had nothing whatsoever to do with the thread's closing. No one even complained about it. It was closed down mainly cause of it's absurdity and I didn't see any indication from lux stating it should all be percieved as a joke. Not even a subtle one, just said it's her own personal opinion while presenting it as a well-known fact.

As far as I remember, there *were* some anti-jew statements on this forum, and they were dealt with. I don't understand what you mean (specifically).

Saying that nobody does anything to deal with such things as discrimination, only when enough people "care" or feel offended, is kind of like a slap in the face for a moderator, since they try to keep the forum as clean as possible, and free of such things (I too am a moderator but take no credit for keeping things in order as I haven't been moderating the General Forum for so long).

Last couple of sentences from this post in the thread.
I took it as a satire but I guess Lux has the final say.

The thread though didn't have to be closed down by males and I doubt any even had the chance to post in it seeing as how it was closed down real fast. Because there are a bunch of males it is more likely for people (male or female) to consider them than to consider, for example, the one lonely Kiwi so as to prevent a flame-war, a pre-emptive lock-down if you will. Because there aren't that many Kiwis, people wouldn't know what exactly offends a Kiwi so if something comes up that's anti-Kiwi nobody would recognize it as being offensive.

We as Athiests may not recognize this joke as being anti-Christian because regarding this site we don't interact too much, if at all, with devout Christians. Even when we talk about Christianity or about religion, it is never in a positive light.

PS: Queenbee, my posts aren't meant to be a harsh critiques of the moderation (to which I have stated earlier have been doing an excellent job in the past couple of years). I'm just saying that it is really hard to notice one person's objection to a post when it is drowned out by numerous others that do not object. Regradless of how super-PC any moderator is, it's impossible to regulate everything, I recognize that. Obviously madeldoe has yet to argue why this thread should be closed if she so wishes but that doesn't make it less wrong for an Athiest to say that a Christian should not be insulted by what is essentially an anti-Christian post.

Still the basic point remains that Lux's thread wasn't locked because of it's offensive nature, but rather cause of it's stupidity (pardon the expression). Did she mean it as humorous? Well, it certainly didn't appear to be, despite that last few sentences, however she was already accused of feminism by then, which WOULD make her say that in her defence anyway. If it was meant in a humorous way, then let me tell you, it was a really kauffman-esque performance. :p
I guess we should give her the opportunity to make her intentions ragarding that clear.

I think there are heaps of christians that would smile when reading this text 'cause they simply see the irony, yet don't take it personally. I don't believe that any christians would be convinced that their belief had been proven wrong, or that it was hurt in any way, just by reading this innocent text. I wouldn't in light years call this text an attack against christianity. This text was only a weak attempt to examplify the irony of it.

I know this guy in Australia, he's catholic and laughs of every anti-christian comment I come with. He thinks they're just funny, 'cause they are awfully cliché, as he has great knowledge of the black metal scene. He's a metalhead... why hasn't he said that my comments are insulting, and why does he keep listening to the music? Because he doesn't take it personally, and he don't believe that some atheist from norway with satanic overtones could convince him or even make him feel less of about his absolute belief here in this world, and his way of looking at reality, the truth and that people will go to a better place when they "cross over to the other side". It's something private and important for him, and he doesn't care about other people's remarks. I respect him ooo-so-much for that! :)

Even Jerry Seinfeld brought up the issue of anti-semitism and how everyone spoke about anti-seimitism even from the slightest attempt of a jew-joke. I mean, everyone got offended by nothing. He examplified it by talking about anti-dentitism on one of the episodes of Seinfeld. Funny, and very self-ironic. It was pretty clear what he ment... and Jerry Seinfeld is a jew.

I'm just saying that people shouldn't take things so personally. Just laugh and forget about it! :)

I don't think it got to the point where people were actually in a position to refute the sheer stupidity of that thread because it was closed early...as for the current thread...jee, I think you people must be really bored. Nice analogy and witty story no doubt, rather insulting towards religious people, who are outnumbering the atheists by the vast majority on this planet.

PS. what's wrong with a war of words...it's fun and it's all virtual anyway..I find this thread quite disappointing compared to the flame war we could have had.

It's all good bit I'm outta here. We are in the translating business right now. I can only assure you that Lux's thread won't be opened, more than that I'm going to trash it next week. Have fun here! :rose:

i am really tired
 

i beg to differ. i was accused of something people do not even know the meaning of. pardon MY thread, it was MY expression. you closed a thread because it was stupid? let's see, how many stupid things do people post on this forum that do not get locked? too many to count. and there are plenty of topics in the past that have been stupid and offensive but did not get locked. THAT is stupid. pardon the expression.

i think you do not care. no one does. no one asked me. no one gives a shit. people reacted with "Lux hates men" or "Lux is an ultra feminist" and did not bother to ask why i posted the thread.

that makes no sense. i do not comprehend your english sometimes. i was accused of feminism AFTER i posted the thread, not during or before it. what you wrote does not make sense. also, need i remind you that a few people enjoyed it. a few others did not find it offensive. but again, since you claim it was closed due to its supposed stupidity, whether it was offensive is irrelevant. yet somehow, it seemed that it was closed because of its offensive nature. maybe the mods disagree? first, you (mods) said it was offensive and now you are saying it was closed because it is redundant and stupid? what redundancy is there? no one else posted anything like this before. and certainly no one expressed their opinions on why they prefer women before this. pardon my tendency to express my most thorough expressions. i am expressively incline to express.


are you in my head? i think not. assuming what i would and would not do is ridiculous. you do not know me and do not know what i will and will not do. i thought you mods were supposed to be unbiased and fair. and definitely would not incorporate personal objective insight into the matter.


so even if i wrote it to be funny, you say that it is not? LMAOO now you are considering the fact that i wrote it without any intent whatsover, leaving it totally up to the minds of this forum to interpret. funny or not, now you see its humorous potential? :done:

this is forum. i could have done that already. you do not have to give me opportunity. ever. this is a forum. free and open to all. i do not need your permission to post anything. and who is we? who are you speaking for?

on a side note. having debates such at these are tedious because english is not the best language for some members on the forum. that is, it is simply difficult to understand what people write. grammar is important. as is being able to accurately convey what you think. in cases where it is difficult for people to express their opinions, ideas get blurry and the debate itself goes to hell. english is not my first language but i know it better than any other language. i think i have mastered the english language to a degree sufficiently enough to express my views clearly and accurately.


definition of feminism:
men and women should be equal in every realm: public and private. that is, men and women should be equal both in the professional world and the domestic world. example: women should not be left at home to take care of the kids and clean the house, and they should not make $0.75 to the $1.00 for the same work that men do. in one word, equality between men and women.

So lets suppose - for the sake of the discussion - that your thread wasn't offensive or stupid
( ie the "arguments" did make some sense, and nobody would get offended by the way the arguments were put forward ). How exactly was your thread promoting the "equality between men and women" :rolleyes:

it is not and i never said it was. since there was not a clear definition present on this forum, i decided it best to establish what it means. please re-read the thread. i never said it was feminist. it is clearly, not. however, others did.

Seems that some people have lost the sense of humour completely. What's wrong with questioning our thoughts and ideas whether it be about religion or sexuality or whatever else?

Unfortunately I missed Lux' thread, it was open less than 3 hours and was closed before one single argument. Freddy, I don't know why you don't have trust in the imagination of members of this forum, that you can state that it is stupid, before a discussion has even begun. For me Lux' statements were funny and worth of some witty argumentation, and I never had the impression that she has a tendency to hatred and personal offensiveness. So I think you (the mods) missed a chance for an interesting thread about sexual self-judging.

There is a difference between personal attacks and general 'pointed' discussions about some hot topics. Why not have some courage to permit such controverse threads?

For me it was just stupid... not offensive at all. I mean, I can have a dark humor sometimes too and naturally I would laugh at that (have done so before) but I think the thread was a bit too much.

So someone used the wrong word. :rolleyes: As you already stated a couple of sentances before that one, people have trouble with language and grammar, maybe they got the wrong definition. You keep bringing up the fact though, "How was my thread feministic?", "Do you even know what feministic means?" (or something along those lines).

If it's free and open for all, then you shouldn't be surprised that others find it wrong to post such threads. Also, since you have your right here - others have their right to close any thread for whatever reasons.

Too much of what? To understand, to give a smart answer? Of wicked humour? Or what?


Who are the others? The mods and their 'relatives'? Or were there normal members too, who were offended?

"Man-hate". And yes I know she doesn't hate men.

The mods are abnormal? :gigi:
Why can't the mods find it wrong to post such a thread? Do we need others to speak aswell? Maybe not so many spoke against the thread (except moderators and maybe one or two "normal" member, as you call them) but someone did, and a moderator chose to close the thread - don't expect it to open again. It goes to the trash.

I didn't say anyone was offended. I also stated that I wasn't offended.

How should I interprete this? As far as I am concerned, the mods can talk to each other or hold 'grand monologues' as much as they want, but I thought, it's a forum, where it is supposed that people speak about topics in which they are interested in.

Sorry if I offend you, but I am not used to be dictated about what I am allowed to speak. I thought these times are over now in Europe, but it's not to late for me to learn that it's not!

I think you misunderstood me... sorry, I can be confusing as English isn't my first language. :( I meant, if a mod thinks that a thread should be closed for whatever reasons, why does she/he need to need the other members' opinions (to be allowed to close it)? The thread was locked very quickly (I think, I mean there were not many posts - I certainly saw it when it was locked) so not even all moderators got a chance to say anything, and I don't see why this is wrong.

I don't think it was locked so that opinions shouldn't be expressed... more because it was very straight forward men-suck-talking. I think there are clever ways to write such things, for example this thread.

I understood you very well, but I think it was not necessary to close the thread that early. I can't speak for Olga, but I have the impression, it was a paranoia-close, to avoid bad vibes before the discussion even has begun. Most of us members know where is heated discussion and where personal insult begins, so we don't need a guardian most of the time.

No , you got it all wrong ! You free to talk whatever you pleased but at your own place , at your home . Or on the streets . If you go to the other people house you have to respect the host of the house and his rules. I say *you* , you .....but it can be any of us. So , our hosts , our mods seems didn't like very much talks of smelly gorillas -men , their unplesant moaning and groaning during the intercorse and last but not the least -- wonderfully vile sound of flapping man's balls during this time ...Do you want to talk about this , Argos?
Do you ? I can hook up you with a couple of links . No need to thank you me.
So , our mods didn't like that and closed the thread . What do you want to do ? Walk around the forum with the banners :* Please open Flapping Balls thread . We haven't got full pleasure yet !!!*

I know the definition of "feminist", don't worry for my poor culture...
I know too the state of mind that some hard ultra-feminists could have and the hate they could feel to wards men..
Don't tell me it doesn't exist.

So I wasn't stuck to the dictionary ; I was referring to this state of mind.
Sorry to tell you that...you can tell you love men and you have nothing against them but I really wonder how you could write such disgusting things if you feel the such respect you pretend to have to wards men.

It was me.
I have replied and expressed my full disgust, dislike in reading a such post.
For your information, I'm a normal member as you and I have absolutely no more "right", no more power than you: direct or "indirect".

The first time I read your posts Argos, you were insulting all the mods for a reason where you weren't involved at all....
I see you haven't changed as you still contest about the honesty, the fair judgment of the mods about a thread you haven't read....

Zorro 's complex ?