Rachel: Decided to make a new thread of this as we're going totally off-topic. Posts originated from this thread.

I don't want to say.. I'm sorry.. But if you want to figure it out, the first game of my country at the World Cup 2006 in Germany is played against her native country.. That's all I'm saying about this.. I'm done :p



I'm not talking about that.. I'm talking about those stupid morons in our government.. The people who thinks is funny to raise insurance with a minimum of 50% while not increasing peoples' paychecks.. I'm talking about the dumbasses who voted yes to introducing the euro, which then lead to that same euro destroying our economy, causing many families to not have enough money left to buy food, let alone clothes and other things.. I'm talking about the people who want to open up our borders to people from eastern european countries so they can work here because they are much cheaper than Dutch people, which makes a lot of Dutch people lose their jobs.. No offense to people from eastern europe, they're just trying to make a living too, but I've been born and raised in this country and I've been trying to find a job ever since the euro was introduced, working crappy partttime jobs in the meantime, it's damn hard!! The place I work parttime at right now, there are many MANY Polish people working there fulltime.. They're taking our jobs and I'm not agreeing with it!!!!! How am I ever going to pay for the insurance they raised with 50% if they're giving away our jobs?!

Rachel.. Please stop commenting and questioning everything I say, trying to make me look stupid..

Oh that's different - politicians and policies then :)

Ahh, I get you now! :yes:

BTW, Lots of Polish people here too, they're not stopping any British people finding any jobs though :no: They often do jobs British people wouldn't wanna do.

In Canada its the same thing. We have the Chinese ppl selling their products cheaper here so its putting under all our business. Ford Canada is closing a lot of doors cause it is cheaper to make the products from china.

Oh come on people, stop being xenophobic, everyone is human and has a basic instinct to survive. If you were from Poland or China are you telling me you wouldn't go to another country if that meant you would have a better life?

I think you would.

^ There's some sort of crisis with cars here too.. I don't know what's it's exactly about though.. We don't have that much Chinese here, but a lot of companies are moving their crap to Poland and Czech Republic etc because it's so much cheaper there, they don't give a crap about the Dutch people who are left without a job here.. And all politicians do is yell that it's going better with Holland and bla bla.. Those jerks should come live in the real world for a few months instead of sitting in their fancy leather chairs, and then rethink the bullsh*t they keep on blabbering :rolleyes:

There are loads here right now.. You can't go on the highway over here without seeing white license plates with the PL next to it :none: One even cut me off today :o Or was that a Dane? So many white license plates in Europe!! But they can't drive either though :p

you dont want to say, but you said anyway? My gut reaction was saying Serbia, but for some reason i hoped it was Bulgaria ... then it would've been more fun. :gigi: i'll leave it to the serbians around here for now...


well, by all you've said so far, you are very bitter towards Eastern Europeans. :heh: dont even have time or energy to get involved with all this, but... seems like you arent qualified for 'your jobs' if you cant get them ... can't just blame the eastern europeans

Im not sure how many plants in the states have closed but I think even GM has closed 16 plants cause of this. Right now Ford here in London Canada is in talks about closing their doors. You know these big industrys are horrible. When a guy is having a stroke or heartattack on line they get mad if workers stop to help the guy cause that means the line shuts down and the company is loses money. So is that really what a persons life is worth to these places. Oh its okay if you have worked there for 30yrs they appreciate that but if you die on the line your an a..hole cause now the company lost money from stopping the line to help you.
Im not complaining that the chinese are making things cheaper. I mean where would I be without Dollarama :D and plus I would drive a Honda Civic anyday over a canadian/american made car. (although I drive a mustang) Im just saying that what is going to happen to our economy if this keeps happening.

EU citizens are EU citizens, they can live and work anywhere they want within the EU, that's the whole point, no internal borders. What people need to do is stop thinking that another European is a 'foreigner', they are not, they are another EU citizen, just like you.

I left a hint.. You never heard me say anything..



I'm not bitter against eastern europeans.. If I was, why would I be on this forum which revolves around eastern european girls? I'm not attacking eastern europeans either, I'm attacking the politicians who make it so easy for them to work here, while they really should take care of the people who actually live in the country they are supposed to work for.. And I am qualified for the jobs I applied for, they always find a reason not to hire me.. I'm too expensive.. :rolleyes:

Ok, coming back to the first thing I quoted from you.. I am "attacking" a few eastern europeans, but only because they hurt me personally.. I would do just the same if they were German or English or American or whatever :rolleyes:



So I'm supposed to go to Poland or Czech Republic or wherever and work for scratch while they come over here and cash in my paycheck? I don't think so :rolleyes: If they want no borders, they should raise the pay to the same level everywhere!!



True, true.. My ex was damn hott, lol!! And not to mention Yulia and Lena and this actress/public figure here in Holland who is actually from Ukraine.. Her name's Victoria Koblenko and she's smokin' :cool:

Were you ok about you ex working in Holland? :p

She doesn't work or live here actually.. She's in Australia..

Did you meet her? :bum:

And she's in Australia, hey? Another well-off country. How do you feel about Eastern Europeans moving there?!

Yes I met her.. In Munich of all places actually :p She has an aunt living there..


I don't live in Australia, I don't deal with it (not anymore anyway) so why should I have an opinion.. What should I feel about them moving there? It doesn't affect me.. I don't have a problem with people migrating, as long as they are willing to adapt to the place they're migrating too.. And many many people (here) are not willing to do that..

Because her living there is no different to Eastern Europeans in Holland.

As long as it's not in my back garden :lol:

Like have Dutch number plates?!!! :lol: :lol:

Omigawd Rachel, you are like so funny :rolleyes:


There is a difference.. There's space, economics, etc.. :rolleyes: I don't know the last time you had a look on a world map, but Australia is a bit bigger than Holland.. And we're packed here :rolleyes:

Eastern Europeans don't go to these places because they actually have always dreamed about moving.. They go there because they need the money to support their family. I don't know how rich/poor Holland is, but I bet it's richer (or used to be) than any of the countries of the eastern europeans that move there...

These people are desperate for money, I mean it's not like they are business men traveling around the world, they're actually (usually) pretty poor people, at least if you compare to west europe. I'm sure they're not too thrilled about being there either. :rolleyes:

They showed on the news last year some Polish people who were working here ilegally. They came here because they had a difficult life in Poland and could hardly pay for their food (LOL I'm making Poles seem like some poor-ass people, sorry). So they came here to build things, and got a very lousy paycheck. They had very long days (12-18 hours) and they lived in an abandoned train.

Migration, my opinion: Absolutely wonderful. It's time we gave something back to the people we were stealing from in the first place.

Migration is a natural thing. Swedes moved to the States, Russians moved to Israel, Israeli moved to Germany, Germans moved to Austria, Vietnamese moved to Russia, Polish moved to Sweden! Yeah!

I have a Polish doctor here and I'm thanking God every time I need a dr. appointment because Swedish doctors are simply dumb. Kill me, but they are!

Okay, aside of all those silly examples, I got to say that immigration is a natural thing for survival purposes. It's ruled by our nature. Then, migration is a bless for small countries with native population. I mean some countries of 5 millions people, marrying each other? I don't think there's a lot of future in that.

well, even the Swedes migrated to Sweden, didn't they? The Greeks to Greece, the Polish to Poland etc.

And they all inhabited that particular piece of land for a reason ;) So why must they all deny their ancestors wishes and move away? :p j/k

Well, it's more or less like this: We export our trash there, they have nothing to export cause we took it all from them in the first place, so they export people. Makes perfect sense to me.

ppl who move out r usually ppl that r uber poor and havent managed to create a normal life in their country, cos theyre not capable or smthing i guess the reasons r diff for each. mostly they give their native coutry bad reputation. im mostly talking bout ppl that i see move out of my country and see them when they come back for holidays. its usually ppl from villages, with not much education and no manners. they usually go there to clean or smthing like that

worst part of it is that ppl from countries they go to then think all the ppl from our country r like this.:rolleyes:

Sorry to say but it's a little bit of a complete bs. I'll explain why. Many countries require some achievement before you can apply for a resident visa or you got to have money to be able to have a decent start in another country. I can't call all those people poor and not able creating good life in their own country.

...not to mention that the top capitalist countries are nowadays targetting the most able people from developed countries, provide them with university scholarships etc., basically recruiting them to work for them.

Just think of the population of China and India...and their best people working for the interests of the U.S., Britain and others.

i dont know what achievements have thousands of ppl that moved from here to germany, one goes and bunch of them follow thats how it went and still goes on. and i didnt say all, but most for sure. ;)

zebu, You maybe spoke on a small scale moving to a neighbour country. We are speaking on a global scale. So do you say that poor Croatians moved to Germany without a penny in the pocket or what? I was translating for a soccer player from Croatia a couple of years ago to get a contract with a Swedish club and he wasn't doing that bad in his own country either. I live in a "right" country and I see all those "poor" immigrants. 90% of them had enough money in their own country.

As some of you may know I'm planning to immigrate to USA or (more than likely) Canada in a matter of a few years. And I agree with the notion that it isn't an easy task to do. First of all you need to make a hell of a lot of money in your native country before you could even think of immigrating, not to mention the immigration laws are ridiculously strict for an average Joe like me.... so really poor and uneducated poor people are counted out by default. I'm not planning to immigrate for economic reasons (Slovenia is doing well enough in that department and I could probably live relatively better in Slovenia in a few years than I will in my adopted country.) My reason is purely cultural: I want to experience some cultural diversity. It's not exactly stimulating to be surrounded with 95% white slavic people all the time (not that there's anything wrong with white slavic people, but I like all people... I need diversity).

A funny story a lady at the immigration office told me a while back, while I was gathering info. She was of course "off the record". She said that when I apply I should have greater chances just because I'm a caucasian European, especially in certain provinces like Alberta or British Columbia. Why? As she explained it those provinces are starting to "swim in yellow", so the goverment approved an incognito program that favours Euro-caucasian immigration. Gotta love immigrational racism, huh? Scary.

zabu described part of the issue, forre another - both are true when it comes to people from Eastern Europe. I am an immigrant from eastern europe and i surely am not a village person without education :rolleyes: in fact I am being paid money to go to school here, rather than paying to go (excuse the not so modest reply) ... but i have also seen the gypsies who illegaly fleed from bulgaria to the west. The difference is - legal and illegal ... how many and what jobs can all the illegals get?
and the example above is about Polish in Holland - well Poland is in the EU now so they can get 'your' job :heh: and that's RIGHT, if you arent happy and cannot get a job 'cause you're 'too expensive' well, honey, just go to Poland! dont worry, you will NOT have to pay 50% more taxes :heh: in fact, everything will be cheaper ... oh wait, you most likely have no idea what it means to immigrate - let me tell you, it is not for everyone ;)
edit: freds added nice reply while i was yping as well. go for it, freds and good luck! That's one of my fav things in the USA - a lot more diversity than anywhere ive been in Europe

don't we live in a civilized enough world where the word "migration" is not only archaic but left alone?

the problem of cultural preservation is heightened in eastern europe because of the close proximity of its countries and also because of how much turmoil they have gone through. that is, countries of eastern europe have not only survived wars, they have also survived political and cultural clashes. it's understandable that many of the natives want to preserve and adhere to their heritage and their culture because of the unrest they've experienced culturally and politically. those two things provide a kind of attachment to something deeper than just boundaries, laws, and a governing body. they also create an identity that is important to how people are raised and how they view the world. on the other hand, parts of the world are rapidly integrating and people are more eager to get out and experience something new. it's a clashing of times, because while history is important, so is diversity.

Anouk, what jobs exactly are you talking about here? Because if you have alot of Polish people coming in at once, "stealng" your jobs, then I imagine those are no classy jobs, more like, what, construction builders? Cleaning? Most Polish people who come to work in other countries because it pays less are generally a bit older (I'm just judging from what I've seen) - the students are busy studying, so to say, and have no time to move in order to work (for that only reason) and generally older Poles don't speak English very well, so that's why I get the feeling that there are not there for any high class jobs. I mean, what would they do? Can't run a cash register - they don't speak the language...

Sorry if I misunderstood, or if I'm speaking out of my ass, maybe you would very much like to be building houses all day.

But that doesn't apply when it means lowering yours, right?

They can't just start lowering pay anyway.. You'll get huge strikes and shit, no one will agree, not just me.. Besides, it's already tough to survive here on minimumwage because they keep raising prices for insurance and utilities, etc.. Some people have around 40 euro's left a week to buy food and clothes, which is also very hard because grocery prices went up like 40 to 50% when the euro came.. If they cut our paychecks, it'll mean Holland's downfall :rolleyes:

They can't just raise them either. First of all I don't think there is any money (I mean, I know the huge companies are rich... but I hardly think they would want to share :p) and besides, if everyone suddenly gets lots of money it will lead to inflation (I think this is what it's called in English? Sorry, I'm not sure.. :/ ) I think.

I think everybody would agree with you to raise everyone's paycheck, but to actually think that would happen, I believe that's called living in a dream... The companies are doing fine now as far as I know, besides they have people who are willing to work for them so why should they (the companies) care? They've got their money in their bank accounts and a good place in their leather seats. :laugh:

I totally agree with you that the taxes are too high! Even here in Sweden..

As you said, it's tough to survive on minimumwage, that's one of the reasons to why people go elsewhere to work, where they can get paid more than their country's "standard".

I guess life is what it always has been; some people simply have it good while others have it not so good. I guess you need to work harder than ever to get something better (or we're just complaining more because we're used to our comfortable lives). Let's just remind ourselves we are quite lucky, I mean, obviously we have enough money to pay for Internet. ;)

I know they just can't start raising pays aswell.. But these politicians keep going on and on about 1 Europe, bla bla.. Well, if they want it to be more like 1 big state or whatever, they should do something to also make it feel like it's one state and have the same things everywhere, at least when it comes to work, because obviously, if borders are open for everyone, they all would want to work where you earn most.. And since Holland is one of those countries with the highest minimum wage in Europe, they're all coming here.. It's inevitable and I think it'll blow up for the worse soon, and since I'm an actual resident here, I'll (and other residents) will be left with all the crap while the people who came here to work, can just go somewhere else because they're no strings attached for them..

Anouk, do you read what you say? I mean seriously ... somehow it is really hard for me to feel sympathy for you as many of my friends back home are making something similar to 100-200 euro a month TOTAL (meaning prior to spending a cent of it) and a lot of the prices aren't that different from EU prices (of course it is cheaper in general, but the ratio is not proportionate). Oh yeah, and my grandma's pension is something like 40 euro for the WHOLE month ... thank god she lives with my aunt and uncle ...

you didnt say what kind of work you were looking for anyway ... someone mentioned earlier, lots of the immigrants get the not so 'desired' positions ... and if it is a job for which qualifications and education/experience is required, well, whose fault is it that you arent matching the criteria? The survival of the fittest .... .