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freddie
26-02-2006, 00:56
I had a chat with someone about that eternal primal question boggling minds of psychologists for centures - are people born bad or good. Without taking the aspects of upbringing and society's influences into account. I am quite aware there's no empirical way of discussing shit like this, since society and our parents or other providers do undeniably have a role in shaping us into what we become later on. But lets - for the sake of the argument - exclude all these other aspects that shape a personality into a recognizable form and focus solely on the potential of an average new born homo sapiens, with no Earthly experiences to speak of . A genuine tabula rasa, and yet a forming personality. What is it thinking? Are it's thoughts pure and altruistic or selfish and driven by it's primal urges? There are three main philosophies tackling this problem: 1) man is born good and pure; this was mostly a thing of religious ideology loosely based on the idea that God designed the human based on his own image. 2) man is born evil and innately selfish; a stance put forward by evolutionists who believe a man (like any other living creature) is designed to survive the game of life, death and extinction by egotistically considering himself the centre of his own subjective universe, paying attention only to his own needs. His two primal motivations being: self-preservation & preservation of the species. In order to survive he needs to be ruthless and uncompromising, putting his own needs forward. 3) man is born completely neutral. There are no good or bad tendencies from the beginning.. Anything is possible. Existentialists go even further: they don't recognize the role of society or upbringing making a vital imprint on a personalty. "Man is nothing else but what he makes of himself" - the first principle of existentialism.

Being a child of corrupt communism and later ruthless liberal capitalism, growing up in a dog-eat-dog world where back-stabbing and grotesque selfishness are almost norms of our civilization, I could hardly disagree with the second philosophy. Man is born with a tremendous potential to be bad. All that can't possibly be explained with influences of society and upbringing. This is an amusing paradox. Who brought up our parents? Who brought up our parents parents? What IS society anyway? It's the mirror of ourselves. It's a median of who we are - our collective consciousness. And it doesn't look pretty, does it? Prime evil (so too speak) is engraved in our DNA as a necessity in order for us to survive "in the wild". Instruments of evolution strive for successful survival of the species and this can only be achieved with making the species behave in a certain (productive and efficient) way. Other peers are perceived as threats or rather - obstacles which need to be overcome to achieve one's goals. A species will only stick together when faced with a common threat and then dissolve into competition again as soon as that threat passes.

That's the basic blue-print to how we work (imo). A new-born is designed with one purpose only - to survive and further it's genes. However...

... how do Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi or Nelson Mandela fit in this picture? Altruism is that one thing which can't really be explained since the essence of altruism seemingly contradicts basic human nature. It's mysterious and illogical. I see it as a decision of an enlightened consciousness which in this way tears apart the shackles of evolutionary urges. As another level of existence, that defines our personalities based on our actions which defy the basic grossly selfish and evil nature predetermined for us at birth. In other words: we're all bad by default. But we don't have to be. It gives a whole new meaning to the sentence: "we are ALL God".


So okay people... what are your ideas on the subject? Are people inicially innately good or innately bad? And no... I won't hold it against you if no one replies to this thread. Infact that's why I strategicaly positioned it in the General Section, since it's one of those questions no one ever asked, or bothered to think about anyway. :p

forre
26-02-2006, 02:03
Funny but we spoke today about similar things. I don't believe that people are born good or bad. People are born pretty blank - tabula rasa. Remember this Latin expression which is given to children by early philosophers? The rest is the result of their biological heritage and environmental experience. I'm used to say that all people are both good and bad but some of them choose to show their good sides more often than the other ones and vise versa.

QueenBee
26-02-2006, 02:13
Umm, I'll probably have a hard time explaining myself and it will probably seem like I'm changing my mind throughout this post and any further posts in this thread, but that's 'cause English isn't my first language so keep that in mind, please. :D

Basically I think people are born both good and bad - I mean, have you ever met someone who is good all the way? Maybe until you notice that there is something that you don't like about them, when they reveal a bad side of theirs. Same with "bad" people - there is usually something you like about someone who seems bad, if you know them well or if you get to know them.

Plus it depends on what you consider good and bad. Stupid example but racists are considered awful by some and wonderful by others. Maybe it all comes down to opinions...

Edit cause I thought of other stuff:

I think when you are born you aren't neither good nor bad, you're just uneducated. You're too young to comprehend what's good and what's bad, you haven't mad up your opinion about anything.

Obie
14-04-2006, 21:50
People are not good or bad since they're born....... they're just beings ready to collect info from everywhere,,,, smells, touch, sights,,,.... If you're taught that your acts will have consecuences that may or not affect you and the rest of the people you learn to be fair, kind and so to teach the others to be like that. Parents have a big responsability so PROTECT YOURSELF!

KellyJ
14-04-2006, 22:53
I was born good but I can be very very bad :laugh:

Some ppl believe that the stars and you birth sign has a lot to do with what type of person you are going to become. I believe that you are born good and along the way its up to you to make your own lifes choices and some of those choices could be good and some bad. Everyone chooses their own path to follow.

Rachel
14-04-2006, 22:56
I think it has a lot to do with your parents and the way they bring you up.

Like if someone think it's normal to steal because their parents do it and it's all they know in life.

exileut
14-04-2006, 23:13
I think it has a lot to do with your parents and the way they bring you up.

Like if someone think it's normal to steal because their parents do it and it's all they know in life.

All I know is Rachel was born gay
and I like it

forre
14-04-2006, 23:15
All I know is Rachel was born gay
Really? OMG *fainting*

I really thought that the only gay in the world were Yulia and Lena from Tatu.

Oh, my, Rachel, congratulations!

Rachel
14-04-2006, 23:20
I really thought that the only gay in the world were Yulia and Lena from Tatu. :lol: :lol: :lol: If that is the case, count me straight! :laugh:

exileut
14-04-2006, 23:30
Really? OMG *fainting*

I really thought that the only gay in the world were Yulia and Lena from Tatu.

Oh, my, Rachel, congratulations!

I guess I was misunderstood?
no arguing with a red name though

QueenBee
14-04-2006, 23:45
no arguing with a red name though
You got that right :laugh: :D

exileut
14-04-2006, 23:51
You got that right :laugh: :D

edit: Yeah I dont want her to slay me

KellyJ
15-04-2006, 00:19
Racheal I totally agree with you. I think ppl are raised a certain way. I think it is up to them as an individual to change their life although they might not know any different

Obie
17-04-2006, 22:42
All I know is Rachel was born gay
and I like it

To be or not to be...... GAY...,,,, Shakespeare should read this forum,,, isn't he already dead?

Glamour
23-04-2006, 19:11
Racheal I totally agree with you. I think ppl are raised a certain way. I think it is up to them as an individual to change their life although they might not know any different
I'm absolutely sure that people are greatly influenced by the society surrenderring them,and in most cases it is society that teach them how to act

KellyJ
23-04-2006, 19:34
Glamour

Oh I agree but each person has their own mind so when they get older they can choose thier own path. I know this guy whos whole life he had parents who were dealing drugs and using them. So for the most part of his early teens he was doing it but then he relized he wasnt going anywhere with his life and now he is this big shot Lawyer with an amazing wife and 3 kids. Im not saying everyone has these choices but I think you are in control of you and everyone has a choice to do what they want with their lives. And yes society has a big role in that