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Lux
09-01-2006, 10:52
before i start rambling about what the scene is like in the city, the bottom line is that lesbians are clicky, exclusive, and well, highschool.
that was true at university of michigan. that was true in columbus. that is true in the city. the CITY. sigh. one of the hottest nights at a popular bar hosts a good dj and friendly bartenders. many, many girls show up. many of them are decent to attractive. but they come in with their group of friends and they don't talk to anyone else. they sit there in their groups all night and talk, to each other. not many people talk to others outside of their groups. it's more of a people watching event than a meatmarket, because there's not alot, or hardly any, number swapping and "hello, how are you"s.



what the hell.



girls are nonaggressive in general when it comes to meeting new people so how is any of this going to evolve.


however, it is understandable that for such a fledgling culture, it has only reached an early stage in development, which is the teenage, highschool stage. that is, the girl-girl culture is only developing and has not reached the full on meat market age. it's not as social as straight bars or clubs. girls who go to lesbian bars who are queer feel just comfortable enough to go with a few likeminded friends and have a night out. there isn't quite the comfort level yet to hit on whoever they see fit. there is a minority that do but they are just that: a minority. this observation, coupled with how nonaggressive girls are in general (something like..it's in their nature) makes the evening, well, odd at best. certainly not easy.


that is a bit of my commentary for now..




thoughts? rants? confessions of difficulties? general anxiety with the way things are? feel free to spill.

Rachel
09-01-2006, 12:13
I think one of the problems are there because many straight girls go to gay clubs & bars. I know someone who hit on another girl in a gay club only to get punched in the face by the girl and then had her shouting "you get your filthy hands off of me, I don't to women!" at her. :none:

I think there's often a little apprehension to talk to new people, people stick in their own groups. I know my friend does now after that little incident. :bum:

zelda05
09-01-2006, 12:42
Straight girls in gay clubs and bars?
What the hell are they doing there?..

Rachel
09-01-2006, 12:48
I think some go there with their gay male friends, and others do it to get away from annoying straight guys for a night, only get get offended if a girl is attracted to them :rolleyes:

zelda05
09-01-2006, 12:58
No offence to straight girls. But what a bunch of idiots!.
They should somewhat expect it! If they are easily offended then they should not be there in the first place.

taty994945
09-01-2006, 13:02
.....

Rachel
09-01-2006, 13:03
I've never met a homosexual person in my lifeYes you have, whether you know it or not.

taty994945
09-01-2006, 13:09
.....

rosh
09-01-2006, 13:17
i think people tend to be quite cliquey in general. most like to stick to their own because its familiar and comfortable.

in cape town, i have noticed that _people_ very much like to stick to their own. sometimes thats a gender thing, sometimes its an orientation thing, sometimes its a culture/community thing. most times though, because we have racial lines so firmly entrenched into our psyche, its a race thing. [and i hate the race card so much. living in london i didnt even think of race at all in the time i was living there. people are just people to me.]

however lets get back to the gay community.

on the whole [in my experience -- big disclaimer], i have found that lesbians tend to hate men. hate is a strong word. we can substitute it for various other choice words/phrases like "dislike, abhor, feel disdain towards, detest etc etc" okay pedantic moment over. i get this strong feeling that a lot of women end up being lesbians due to their dislike of men rather than their love of women. ive certainly seen that happen in cases where women have been in abusive situations with men and decide to turn to women as the softer more protective option. the reality is of course that men and women can both be equally abusive but the logic makes perfect sense to the victim of abuse.

ive often had arguments with other lesbians about my

1. friendships with men
2. relationships with bi women.

on point one, they regard men as the oppressive enemy and im a traitor by having male friends. i view this as complete rubbish. not every man is abusive.

on point two im still a traitor and stupid to boot since bi women will cheat on me with another man. err and a gay woman wouldnt possibly cheat on me with another woman ? right.

ive also noticed a trend within the little pockets of lesbian groups where they will all sleep with each other at some point or another.

will write more later. am babysitting a hyperactive little 14 month old niece. who wants to post to tatysite too :) [shes trying to grab the keyboard while im holding her and typing :)]

Rachel
09-01-2006, 13:36
Have to say I don't really agree with much of this:

i get this strong feeling that a lot of women end up being lesbians due to their dislike of men rather than their love of women.If that is the case you can't call them lesbians. If a woman dislikes a man it doesn't suddenly make her wanna suck a girl's nipples. Yeah, I know it isn't all about sex, but it plays a big part.

ive certainly seen that happen in cases where women have been in abusive situations with men and decide to turn to women as the softer more protective option.If that is indeed true that is crap for the real lesbian community as those kind of women will break other women's hearts.

on point one, they regard men as the oppressive enemy and im a traitor by having male friends. i view this as complete rubbish. not every man is abusive.Personally I have trouble getting on with straight men. I love gay men, but me and straight men just can't be friends :none: Too many bad experiences.

zelda05
09-01-2006, 13:53
i get this strong feeling that a lot of women end up being lesbians due to their dislike of men rather than their love of women.
Then those women are being something they are not. I highly doubt that few bad experiences with men will compel a woman to become a lesbian. And start licking pussies. (sorry, but I had to say it).

rosh
09-01-2006, 14:19
thats cool, no one has to agree with everyone after all. as i said in the beginning, i was speaking from my own experiences [people watching, talking to other girls/women and just life in general]. speaking for me : ive always been gay and havent ever felt any attraction towards men. i get along better with men in general both gay and straight.

also i think its important to realise that sometimes women end up with other women not necessarily due to an overwhelming attraction, but due to sometimes the first person who comes along and loves you, happens to be another woman. i actually know a couple who ended up this way.

zelda you would be surprised for the reasons anyone would start batting for the other team. after all, there is such a huge surge in the amount of girls and boys who are suddenly "bi curious" just because its trendy. [just to give one example of course. we can debate till the cows come home whether or not this qualifies as them being real gays or not but honestly at the end of it all who really cares about the definitions. i believe you love who you love. or youre attracted to someone not just cause of their sexual-physical attributes. just because ive never been attracted to a man doesnt mean one day i wont be. i really just dont know. all i know is for now, ive only ever fallen in love with women]

look, these are my observations, not hard and fast rules. there are as many shades of grey for any statement any of us makes, or any opinions we hold on the world as there are people out there :)

Lux
09-01-2006, 19:27
i have noticed that quite a few women turn away from women to men because of whatever happened that was psychologically damaging, whether it's rape or what. that is what makes sexual orientation a tricky topic. when women turn to women out of default, are they still gay? if homosexuality isn't a choice then doesn't this crumble that argument? i'm not sure where i stand on the matter but it is quite tragic and unnatural if a woman turns to another woman just because she doesn't have luck with men or doesn't like men anymore after some experience.

zebu
09-01-2006, 23:55
i dont believe in turning to men or women, ppl r just sexual. all those categories, who needs them. why limit urself to one sex, when u want someone, sex dont matter, u never know who u gonna fall for next.

Rachel
10-01-2006, 00:00
I'm not a believer in all that :no:

Lux
10-01-2006, 02:05
it's not a belief. i've known quite a few girls who've been raped and became averse to men. period. and they turned to women. simple as that.

Khartoun2004
10-01-2006, 02:13
it's not a belief. i've known quite a few girls who've been raped and became averse to men. period. and they turned to women. simple as that.

I dated a girl who was raped as a child and the thought of being with a guy made her sick. However, I guess she got over her fear of men because she's been with the same guy for over a year now.

My point is you never know what is truly in another person's heart. Human Sexuality is a complicated thing. Look at me... I'm going from lesbian to completely asexual... you never know, so why does it matter?

Lux
10-01-2006, 02:40
i am just saying, it exists. people were saying it doesn't. it does. very much so. that is all.

Rachel
10-01-2006, 17:52
I'm going from lesbian to completely asexual... you never know, so why does it matter?Well seeing as you posted this (http://forum.tatysite.net/showpost.php?p=267085&postcount=8) 4 days ago, I don't think you're anywhere near asexual, love ;)

KillaQueen
10-01-2006, 18:15
I don't think you're anywhere near asexual, love
Rach, i sense a deja vu. let's hope there won't be another argument a la mossopp.

Rachel
10-01-2006, 18:22
Rach, i sense a deja vuYeah, me too :none:

Lux
10-01-2006, 18:54
LOL@ you guys...who cares. HAHAHHA :none:

coolasfcuk
11-01-2006, 06:18
Oh my.. you guys.....

first of all - I am not sure I am getting this? do you want the Queer bars to be a 'meat market' place??? that is such a HORRIFIC stereotype! I dont go to bars or clubs to HOOK-UP .... and quite frankly, I dont see that as high school-ish. Any bar you walk to by yourself, you are going to seeing groups of friends that went there together .... some are more 'moody' and inclusive, some would speak to you and so on - it very much depends on the situation. I have noticed that a lot of butch-dykes at the lexington are very moody and all, but it's because they are somehow territorial... then again, not everyone is like that.

On the point of straight people, or speciafically girls, in lesbian bars - are you guys serious?!?! Read what you are saying - esp YOU zelda, it's been a while since I've heard such an offensive and discriminatory comment as:
No offence to straight girls. But what a bunch of idiots!.
They should somewhat expect it! If they are easily offended then they should not be there in the first place.

Because of one moron at a club ... there are plenty of gay women would tell you to FUCK OFF if you were pissing them off as well .... or even better, you could've been in a STRAIGHT bar (oh wait, that's the majority of bars anyways) and a guy could've been hitting on you - would you yell: "Get off me, asshole, i dont do men!" .... and then he would say: "Oh, fucking idiot! You should NOT be here in the first place if you dont wanna hook up with men and are so offended by it!"
:blabla: I wont even comment anymore on your ignorant comment, but you can see it has made me just a little angry, darling ... oh yeah, and i have taken my straight girlfriends to a lesbian bar - one because they wanted to go with me, and two, because it is JUST A bar... it just happens to be very queer accepting and open-minded ....

I am not sure if you guys realize this, but if you read what has been said around here... :eek: I might admit that I am not attracted to certain types of lesbians (though lately I have been surprising myself with enjoying/linking people i thought i could never like before), I am definatelly accepting to anything... sexuality is so much more complicated than that. I have femmie friends, butchy friends (barely butchy or very bucth) ... gay boy frieds, tons of straight boy friends, straight girl friends..... blah blah blah... people are people. It is fun to have a 'common social' group - aka QUEER people hanging out together - but lets not build up walls around us :flag: .. and even worse, built the walls, and then hate all the different queers inside the walls :gigi:

p.s. still wouldnt mind checking the L.A. scene though - as I still stick to my desire to see more styling lipstick lesbians sipping on some DIRRRRRTY Martinies LoL :chupa:

freddie
11-01-2006, 08:03
I agree with Cools on this one. I think that was what Mossopp tried to say when she was talking about gay segregation. Building walls around any minority whether it'd be racial, sexual or religious just brings harm to both parties: estrangement, tensions, fear (homophobia in it's psychological term is still just that A PHOBIA;fear), missunderstandings and buiding of harmful stereotypes.

Lux
11-01-2006, 10:57
how else do girls meet girls? if bars aren't conducive to that kind of thing how are girls supposed to meet girls? what kind of natural environment is there

zelda05
11-01-2006, 13:11
it's been a while since I've heard such an offensive and discriminatory comment
Good lord! :rolleyes: I did say no offence!. So you were not suppose to find it offensive. :coctail: Beside, my comments were amid at those who supposedly got offended by Rach friend. Anyway, my whole point was if a straight woman gets hit on by a female in a gay bar/club then she should not be offended because WAKE UP it is a gay bar/club. They should somewhat expect it. There is no justification for hitting/beating the hell out of someone.

a guy could've been hitting on you - would you yell: "Get off me, asshole, i dont do men!" .... and then he would say: "Oh, fucking idiot! You should NOT be here in the first place if you dont wanna hook up with men and are so offended by it!"
Why yell and get cranky? Just simply tell him that you are not interested. What is the point of telling him "I don't do men." :rolleyes: If I am in a "straight" bar. I would not be offended if a guy hit on me because as an open-minded person I should expect it being that I am in a envirnoment in which these things are normal. Beside, I can't blame the person for hitting on me as I don't have the lable "lezzie" written on my forehead.

but you can see it has made me just a little angry, darling
Yeah. It is obvious.

coolie, I sincerely apologize if my comments have offended you (Obviously it has; otherwise, you wouldn't have taken the time to write such long message). I have nothing against straight females as all of my so-called friends are straight. And I live in a town of straight people. :( :laugh:

Rachel
11-01-2006, 13:19
I think that was what Mossopp tried to say when she was talking about gay segregation. Building walls around any minority whether it'd be racial, sexual or religious just brings harm to both parties: estrangement, tensions, fear (homophobia in it's psychological term is still just that A PHOBIA;fear), missunderstandings and buiding of harmful stereotypes.Well, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. But yep, everyone has their own opinion and that is mine.

zelda05
11-01-2006, 13:26
Well, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.
I agree!

Lux
11-01-2006, 19:05
what was offensive? did i miss something

catmincenz
12-01-2006, 00:35
Personally I have trouble getting on with straight men. I love gay men, but me and straight men just can't be friends :none: Too many bad experiences.

Same as me and i'm a Gay guy Myself, I can't relate to them. I can get on fine with Lesbians, Straight Girls and Gay guys but not straight guys?

Rachel
12-01-2006, 00:40
It's the whole mentality.

*Waits for not every straight guy is the same speech* :rolleyes:

Lux
12-01-2006, 01:47
i get along fine with straight men, for about two weeks. until they decide it appropriate to have feelings for me then friendship goes to hell

Rachel
12-01-2006, 01:49
Yeah, that's one of the problems I have :bum:

Lux
12-01-2006, 01:52
well for me i just have men all the time LMAO :no:

zelda05
12-01-2006, 12:42
i get along fine with straight men, for about two weeks. until they decide it appropriate to have feelings for me then friendship goes to hell
Same problem here :bum:

EDIT: eeek, I have 500 posts!

KillaQueen
12-01-2006, 13:24
Lux, Rach, zelda, but do you tell the straight guys that you're gay? or you try to be friends without them knowing? because i have noticed that most straight guys you befriend tend to develop feelings if they're in the dark about your sexuality.
lol, this reminds me telling one of my male straight friends that i'm a lezzie just so he'd stop flirting with me. then he understood and stopped. and realized he was in fact gay :lol:

rosh
12-01-2006, 13:41
ive had guys try to score me even harder when i tell them im gay. most of them are respectful that theyre never going to get anywhere though and we have a grand old time discussing and perving girls together :)

KillaQueen
12-01-2006, 13:56
ive had guys try to score me even harder when i tell them im gay.
that's also true lol.

haku
12-01-2006, 14:28
I don't want to disturb this thread with a straight male comment, but i think you can find people who try to convert others in all groups, not just straight men, there are straight women who try to convert gay men, and even among gay people, there are gay men who try to convert straight men and gay women who try to convert straight women. In all groups you have people who see converting someone of the other 'team' as an interesting challenge, i've heard gay men say things like "the difference between a straight man and a gay man is a six-pack of beer" and gay women say things like "women are straight until they're not" showing that just like some straight people think that gay people are gay until they meet the right straight person, some gay people think that straight people are straight until they meet the right gay person.

Also, it's not unheard of for a gay man to develop feelings for a straight male friend even though he knows that nothing could ever happen, and gay women also sometimes develop feelings for a straight female friend, it's not only straight men who can develop feelings for someone of the opposite orientation.

rosh
12-01-2006, 14:58
amber : very valid points. im quite careful around strangers who are jittery about my orientation and make sure nothing i say or do can be misconstrued as "hitting on them". once the air clears though and my intentions are obvious [i.e. friendship] i have a grand old time flirting with men and women. both know im not serious seeing as im involved anyway

Rachel
12-01-2006, 15:43
Lux, Rach, zelda, but do you tell the straight guys that you're gay?Yep, which on most occassions makes them more determined.

Lux
12-01-2006, 16:27
no because i'm not gay

zelda05
12-01-2006, 16:47
I don't tell them that. But I specifically do tell them that I have no interest in guys. So they shouldn't expect anything. But guys will be guys. At my previous job, a man in his 30's + hit on me :bum:

rosh
12-01-2006, 16:53
I don't tell them that. But I specifically do tell them that I have no interest in guys. So they shouldn't expect anything. But guys will be guys. At my previous job, a man in his 30's + hit on me :bum:

yeah well thats everywhere. when i was 16 my english teacher hit on me. she was married. i didnt even realise i was gay yet and she was hot ! but the attention made me uncomfortable esp when she started running her nails down my neck during class while walking by my desk. i eventually told her to back off.

point being : unwanted attention is unwanted attention regardless of who it comes from.

Rachel
12-01-2006, 16:59
but the attention made me uncomfortable esp when she started running her nails down my neck during class while walking by my desk. i eventually told her to back off. I probably would have loved that, especially at 16 LMAO Older women are SUCH a big weakness of mine :dead:

zelda05
12-01-2006, 17:04
when i was 16 my english teacher hit on me.
You are not from US are you? American teachers are :bum:
They always hit on little kids. :laugh:

Rachel
12-01-2006, 17:04
She's from Cape Town.

zelda05
12-01-2006, 17:21
Aahh, Interesting.

haku
12-01-2006, 18:54
no because i'm not gayYou're not gay? Your numerous man-bashing penis-phobic posts had never given me the impression that you had any affection for the male gender. :p

Rachel
12-01-2006, 19:29
LOL Yeah, I don't understand her either :p

freddie
12-01-2006, 21:13
Some women are into men in appearance but hate their genitals. Some STRAIGHT women don't exactly find a penis appealing. just as some lesbians don't exactly feel aestetically content seeing a vagina (infact I know at least 2 lesbians who're like that). You get all sorts. Physical attraction is all a matter of being attracted to the body as a whole, not just that one small part. :p

That's as far as genitals are concerned. But men-bashing is not exactly a domain of the lesbians (regardless of what most here said, most lesbians I know get along famously with me and I'm a straight guy). I've experienced just as much (if not more) men-bashing from straight women. Cause they're the ones who have to deal with men more closely in a relationship environment.

Lux
13-01-2006, 09:45
speaking for some women? as though you know some women :no:

man bashing? show me the posts. just because the penis is disgusting means i hate what it's attached to. please, spare me.

haku
13-01-2006, 15:44
Some women are into men in appearance but hate their genitals. Some STRAIGHT women don't exactly find a penis appealing. just as some lesbians don't exactly feel aestetically content seeing a vaginaAnd i've always thought that there is something fundamentally flawed right there, if seeing the genitals of the gender you're supposedly attracted to makes you wanna puke, something is not quite right. Yes, attraction is not limited to genitals, but you can't totally exclude them either, how can you love someone while finding their genitals totally gross…
I'm not saying it doesn't exist though, there are indeed people who are attracted to the body type of one gender while being atracted to the genitals of the other gender, the huge success of shemales nowadays shows that there are many people attracted to females with male genitals, and ultra butches can be considered the opposite of shemales, 'hefemales', males with female genitals.
Of course, having 4 genders, male, female, shemale, hefemale, opens up a whole new lot of gender combinations and creates new categories. Traditionally, straight means attracted to the opposite gender and gay means attracted to the same gender, but what about a man attracted to shemales for example? Is he straight because he's attracted to the opposite body type, or gay because he's attracted to the same genitals, the reality is probably that they deserve some categories of their own as they do not fit in the traditional straight and gay ones.


just because the penis is disgustingAnd that's man-bashing right there. :p
Seriously, you find the penis disgusting but you wouldn't mind having sex with a man?

marina
13-01-2006, 17:40
Of course, having 4 genders, male, female, shemale, hefemale, opens up a whole new lot of gender combinations and creates new categories

Rolling Stone has published about the Wachowski brothers.

Turns out Larry Wachowski(co-director of the blockbuster Matrix movies) met a dominatrix (who was married to a female to male transsexual), broke up two marriages, and is now LIVING AS A WOMAN.
confusing as as hell (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/9138137?rnd=1137100156948&has-player=true) :coctail:

Lux
13-01-2006, 22:38
the penis is aesthetically unappealing. that's all. nothing to do with functionality. it is disgusting to look at.

this is a double post because it deserves its own space.
(freddie: imo it doesn't)
Lux - well in my opinion it does. and for you to insert your personal say in MY post just cause you're a mod now makes this communistic. what freedom is there if mods are going to insert themselves into private posts? that are purely opinion anyway? what pettiness.
this is a thread about social commentary. can we please refrain from genitalia? and please, straight men, stop trying to say what you think you know about what LESBIANS think. that is not commentary because it is not observation. you don't know many lesbians, nor do you frequent bars and LGBT events. don't forget, you are straight males. unless you're transgendered, you've hardly any insight into what lesbians think. so..let's stop right there.

haku
13-01-2006, 23:50
and please, straight men, stop trying to say what you think you know about what LESBIANS think. that is not commentary because it is not observation. you don't know many lesbians, nor do you frequent bars and LGBT events. don't forget, you are straight males. unless you're transgendered, you've hardly any insight into what lesbians think. so..let's stop right there.
Ok, i'll refrain from participating to gay topics from now on.

tainted_chick
14-01-2006, 00:51
ooo getting a bit hot headed in here :D

Lux
14-01-2006, 01:03
Ok, i'll refrain from participating to gay topics from now on.


thanks. no hard feelings. but its not what you've said, not you in particular. it's just when people step into the minds of gay women and try to speak for them when they don't have a clue what the fuck they're talking about. but no, it's not you. you're fine.

Rachel
14-01-2006, 01:07
Lux, as a gay woman can I get away with saying I don't understand you as much as Amber does? :spy:

Lux
14-01-2006, 01:21
oh christ. no.

Rachel
14-01-2006, 01:22
Ok then...*pretends to be able to read you like a book* :rolleyes:

Lux
14-01-2006, 01:26
i won't direct this at anyone but, when people state things as assumptions of what queer women think as a whole or even a portion of them, i don't see how that is observation. it's saying what YOU (not you but whoever says it) think they think, without every knowing. i am NOT saying i know, because i know jack shit. but as someone more inclined to be similar to queer women in a few respects, i can relate better. i can maybe even relate more, but in general i can relate better.

Rachel
14-01-2006, 01:29
If you're not directing at anyone then you might aswell not say it. *Really doesn't get your post* :bum:

freddie
14-01-2006, 01:31
his is a thread about social commentary. can we please refrain from genitalia? and please, straight men, stop trying to say what you think you know about what LESBIANS think. that is not commentary because it is not observation. you don't know many lesbians, nor do you frequent bars and LGBT events. don't forget, you are straight males. unless you're transgendered, you've hardly any insight into what lesbians think. so..let's stop right there
This is a discussion forum. We share opinions here. This is not a court. You don't have to be an expert nor have any "insight" on the subject at hand to be granted the opportunity to discuss it. I mean does any one of us REALLY have any serious "insight" on half the topics we rant about? I should think not. That's why we discuss it. Each opinion is unique and represents a different viewpoint on the subject. Why not share it? It's what we're here for.

Lux
14-01-2006, 01:33
i dont think it is social commentary when you try to get inside the minds of groups as a whole without much experience or exposure to them. or without even studying them, objectively. for example, i don't try to say what black people think because i know little about them and what they think, and what they've experienced. i can throw numbers around and analyze research and data but that's it. that is all i'm saying. it is not social commentary when people try to get inside the minds of a group they are far and few from and try to assume what they think, without really knowing.

and please. if i directed it at someone i would be 1. banned 2. ridiculed 3. harassed 4. disliked and well, 5. banned.

directing it at someone is no good on this forum, i've been here long enough to have learned that.

Some women are into men in appearance but hate their genitals.
how do you really know this. it's a generalization and what does it really mean? nothing. how did genitalia even come into question? lol it is probably true, as it is a generalization, but it seems ridiculous.

Some STRAIGHT women don't exactly find a penis appealing.
but they would gladly have it inside them, back in forth, for hours at a time. :rolleyes: it is appealing to them, is it not.

just as some lesbians don't exactly feel aestetically content seeing a vagina (infact I know at least 2 lesbians who're like that).

what kind of lesbians are these? LMAO :none:

You get all sorts. Physical attraction is all a matter of being attracted to the body as a whole, not just that one small part.

it's a complete package. i can't like women and not like the vagina. it's a complete package, is it not? there would be serious problems if people didn't like the genitalia and like the *person. because sex and gender are closely intertwined. although gender goes beyond sex boundaries, they are closely tied.

But men-bashing is not exactly a domain of the lesbians (regardless of what most here said, most lesbians I know get along famously with me and I'm a straight guy).

it sure isn't. i am serious. straight men are good as friends sometimes. i get along better with them sometimes.

I've experienced just as much (if not more) men-bashing from straight women. Cause they're the ones who have to deal with men more closely in a relationship environment.

oy. that sucks...coming from straight women. :bum:

freddie
14-01-2006, 01:38
I don't think Amber was trying to get inside the minds of groups of people. I think he just expressed his opinion on the matter. Maybe in a contraversial but still non-offensive way. If we start going down that road no one willl be free to say ANYTHING anymore without brushing the thin line of political correctness. Chill out a bit. You can still express and explain your counter-opinions, proving him wrong, if you so please.

Lux
14-01-2006, 01:42
i thought you were doing it, not amber. but again, *thought = past tense. lets *try* to have a debate instead of a heated mess.

coolasfcuk
14-01-2006, 01:43
This is a discussion forum. We share opinions here. This is not a court. You don't have to be an expert nor have any "insight" on the subject at hand to be granted the opportunity to discuss it. I mean does any one of us REALLY have any serious "insight" on half the topics we rant about? I should think not. That's why we discuss it. Each opinion is unique and represents a different viewpoint on the subject. Why not share it? It's what we're here for.
:D Bravo! I dont need to say anymore, except, I am also 'queer woman', lux, but your post of asking straight males not to participate in the discussion is nothing less than ridiculous! No one is an expert here, like freds said, besides, Amber for example might be MORE queer woman than you anyway! how do you know that he isnt? what is a queer woman anyway? It's not black or white, there are SOOOOOOOOOO many shades of GRAY! :rolleyes:

Lux
14-01-2006, 01:47
1. i didn't ask.
2. it just annoyed me, a tiny bit, tiny. tiny is key here but i am over it.
3. see what i mean? i didn't ask it, and if it is interpreted as such, oh well. but that was not the point of it. and certainly not the reason behind it.

freddie
14-01-2006, 02:21
i thought you were doing it, not amber. but again, *thought = past tense. lets *try* to have a debate instead of a heated mess.

Splendid idea. For this reason I won't reply to your post disecting my statements. If you want an answer/explanation to those I'll gladly send you a PM. Case closed.

So... social commentary... more insights anyone? :D

PowerPuff Grrl
14-01-2006, 04:26
Can we still talk about genitalia?... I'd really like that.

Amber's a dude?
I'm so sorry, I had no idea!

Kappa
14-01-2006, 04:33
Wow, I could smell the bullshit in this thread all the way from Livejournal. :spy:

Lux
14-01-2006, 10:09
in the scene here at nyc, i give up. i give up cause there is no point whatsoever. and if you want a good time here in the city hit me up but it is a waste of fucking time.

coolasfcuk
14-01-2006, 10:23
in the scene here at nyc, i give up. i give up cause there is no point whatsoever. and if you want a good time here in the city hit me up but it is a waste of fucking time.
:blabla: you're full of shit! YEah I am drunk, so warn, me! I am sorry, lux, but you gotta more uP! its not a waste of time... and when you're erady for it, itsw FUN!

:cocttail:

Lux
14-01-2006, 10:40
1. i like girls who are girls, not girls who look like guys/arefat/chubby/weirdlooking
2. there aren't many girls like that who are OUT int he scene here
3. so i am not the one full of shit because ppl here have seen the scene in LA and there are far more pretty girls there than here.

this belongs in the daily troubles thread:hmmm:

freddie
14-01-2006, 10:49
Wait... are you talking about the same NYC? A bustling metropolis with over 21 million people? I'm sorry but eventhough I have no insight on the matter something tells me there really ought to be some drop dead gorgeous lesbians/bisexuals in the mix there.

Lux
14-01-2006, 11:10
Wait... are you talking about the same NYC? A bustling metropolis with over 21 million people? I'm sorry but eventhough I have no insight on the matter something tells me there really ought to be some drop dead gorgeous lesbians/bisexuals in the mix there.

1. nyc population - 8.2 million
2. there aren't because girls are not OUT. i mean, the ones who show up in the lesbian scene are fully comfortable and open. many, many girls aren't. i mean, most girls aren't. the ones who are out are aware, and gayer than gay.
3. there aren't drop dead gorgeous lesbian or bi girls
4. the percentage of decent girls i.e. non butch/mannish/old/fat/weird is small. like 25% on a good night, usually less.
5. i know a few promoters in the scene, who throw lesbian parties and have been around for years. they know everything to everything. and i've partied with them nearly every day for the past week. trust me. there isn't much. mostly because girls aren't OUT like guys are out. and they shouldn't be..but that's another story.

catmincenz
14-01-2006, 12:37
/me is confused :o

Rachel
14-01-2006, 12:37
You're not the only one :bum:

freddie
14-01-2006, 13:41
Same here...

There aren't any nice looking girls because none of them are out? All the good-looking lesbians are in the closet? Or what are you saying?

KillaQueen
14-01-2006, 14:00
Ok, i'll refrain from participating to gay topics from now on.
whaaa??? but i don't want you to, Amber. you ARE our own lesbian identified man. can't have a gay thread without you. for what it's worth, i want you continue posting :yes:

Rachel
14-01-2006, 14:02
KQ, I :heart: :heart: :heart: your Mr Tumnus avatar! :gigi:

KillaQueen
14-01-2006, 14:05
KQ, I :heart: :heart: :heart: your Mr Tumnus avatar! :gigi:
why thank you, Rachel. i love it too :love:

zebu
14-01-2006, 15:15
i never been to gay places or plan on going. dont see whats so appealing, maybe kissing and touching freely without thinking if someone will kick u or smthing. but ive been doing that in all places i go out (well not too much tho, xept when too drunk) and i never had any trouble, so..
anyways, once i went to see a movie at this queer film festival here, i was expecting mixed audience, like normal cinema night or maybe more student crowd. was i wrong. it was full of butchymanlooking girl/women who totally freaked me out. they had hostile faces, and the guys were freaky looking too, xept one who came up to ask us smthing. we felt like such outsiders there.

so really, why do u need places like that, isnt it better to go to some openminded club, which isnt srtrickly gay, but where u know what kind of ppl go out and that they r cool about homo/bi ppl.

PowerPuff Grrl
14-01-2006, 22:35
I have heard, heard that the lesbians in Montreal and Quebec City are very femme and very hot, but all the women in Quebec are gorgeous regardless of their orientation. Unless you speak French though I wouldn't recommend you going to Quebec City, they'd cut you. Montreal is bilingual.

freddie
14-01-2006, 23:07
I have heard, heard that the lesbians in Montreal and Quebec City are very femme and very hot, but all the women in Quebec are gorgeous regardless of their orientation. Unless you speak French though I wouldn't recommend you going to Quebec City, they'd cut you. Montreal is bilingual.

I've seen some pics of Montreal ones. I'd tend to agree. Lipstick lesbians all over the place. Dunno what is it about this province... maybe it's the whole enlightened mix of all possible cultures of the universe, maybe it's just that french women in general are very pretty and most genuine Quebec people are of that descent... I have no idea. But yeah.... hot.

PowerPuff Grrl
15-01-2006, 01:06
maybe it's the whole enlightened mix of all possible cultures of the universe, maybe it's just that french women in general are very pretty and most genuine Quebec people are of that descent... I have no idea. But yeah.... hot.

No it isn't the cultural diversity, though it is diverse it isn't as much as Toronto, the girls there are hot though, but not as breathtakingly hot as Quebec. I think it's a French thing.

Lux
15-01-2006, 01:17
queer girls aren't as out as gay men. many girls are not OUT at all, they aren't out on the scene, they aren't out about their sexual orientation, and frankly, they don't want to be "gay" or "lesbian." they keep it private. in turn, they are hidden. so the ones that do appear are all gayer than gay. and butch.

rosh
15-01-2006, 08:59
queer girls aren't as out as gay men. many girls are not OUT at all, they aren't out on the scene, they aren't out about their sexual orientation, and frankly, they don't want to be "gay" or "lesbian." they keep it private. in turn, they are hidden. so the ones that do appear are all gayer than gay. and butch.


and how are you managing to speak for all of us ? im out, im not gayer than gay [geekier than geek though] and im not butch. i dont have a mullet / buzz cut / abundance of waistcoats / doc martens / insert your butch stereotype here :rolleyes:

are you speaking for your little community or lesbians in general ? because i think youre _very_ mistaken.

my experience in south africa and england has been the following : its easier to be out as a gay girl than as a gay man. heck its even chic depending on which impressionable minds youre hanging out with.

im not part of the scene though i do frequent gayfriend restaurants and a lot of my friends are gay/bi but i dont take part in prides nor do i go to gay clubs. im out at work. im out at home. about 98% of the gay/bi girls i know are out too. and thats in both countries.

Lux
15-01-2006, 12:36
well, why is it at gay bars, gay events, that MOST of the girls who show up, even for things like the L Word premiere at a bar, are NOT feminine. they are either 1. butch 2. dykey 3. both 3. mannish 4. older?

i am not SPEAKING for anyone. i have been out and then out some more and then stayed out for awhile, and that is what i've noticed. i've also stayed hidden from LGBT or gay anything for awhile. i've just seen both sides. most of the girls i've hooked up with have been random and almost never through a gay bar or a lgbt event.

that is, i met them without being out and gay. what does that say

rosh
15-01-2006, 13:28
it says not everyone likes clubbing ? but it certainly doesnt mean that you need to frequent gay bars or gay events in order to prove youre out as a gay person.

not all gay people like "the scene". some of us would rather join a sports club, a book club, a movie club a whatever club. ive met my friends at school / tech / the internet / via common interests. there are many ways to meet people. and id rather meet like minded people than gay people just cause theyre gay.

my orientation is coincidental to my existance. it is not my existance. and you would be very surprised where youre going to meet someone you end up clicking with.

and why do most of the women you end up seeing at gay clubs look a certain way ? stereotyping i suppose. its like asking why everyone who goes to a star wars convention ends up dressing up like the characters. some are genuinely comfortable with what theyre wearing and the "look" they have decided suits them best. others are just trying to fit in.

xmad
15-01-2006, 13:31
Lux, what's wrong with being butch?They are cool.:gigi:

coolasfcuk
15-01-2006, 18:35
it says not everyone likes clubbing ? but it certainly doesnt mean that you need to frequent gay bars or gay events in order to prove youre out as a gay person.
or it says that we, QUEERS, as people first, and so meeting someone does NOT have to be through 'queer bar'!

ive met my friends at school / tech / the internet / via common interests. there are many ways to meet people. and id rather meet like minded people than gay people just cause theyre gay.
Bravo! :) I completely agree, in fact, the one time I met someone at a gay event.... :eek: :flag: it ended up such a fucking disaster! 1. WE had NOTHING in common, besides the fact that we are gay :rolleyes: .... 2. I ended up being so ANNOYED by that person by the end of the night LoL .... 3. REgardless of the fact that it was obvious NOTHING would come out of this, she was still insisting on making-out with me, which resulted in me laughing in her face! very classy, i know... lol
Looking to hook-up is plain BAD to me, whether y ou are gay, lesbian, transgender, staight boy or a girl. anyone that sets out to go to a bar or club to hook-up is plain... well....yeah

Lux
15-01-2006, 19:35
nothing wrong with dykey/butch or anything, just that i'm not usually attracted to it :gigi:

Kappa
15-01-2006, 21:02
But you treat us like we shouldn't be liked by anyone else either. :spy:

Aaaaanyway. I agree with Rosh... having "I'm gay, you're gay, let's try something!" as coupling criteria is usually disasterous.

xmad
15-01-2006, 21:51
But you treat us like we shouldn't be liked by anyone else either.
:yes:
So I'm gonna report you(Lux) to our president(Ahmadinejad):bebebe: :laugh:

Lux
15-01-2006, 22:14
i just don't like it. i speak for no one else. it's my personal thing. i don't choose it but most of the girls i attract to simply aren't butch or dykey. that is all. :10x:

xmad
15-01-2006, 22:20
I dont like the girls who dont like us.That's all.:10x: :laugh:

Lux
15-01-2006, 22:24
well you're not gonna find many of those :kwink: :gigi: i'm not generally attracted to butch dykey girls just like i'm very occasionally attracted to men. aka i'm not attracted to most of them.
why do people take this personally? i'm not dissing dykey/butch girls I JUST PERSONALLY AREN'T ATTRACTED TO MOST OF THEM.


i like girls who are like me. so, basically i'm in love with myself. ah, vanity. :girl:

coolasfcuk
16-01-2006, 09:12
i'm not dissing dykey/butch girls I JUST PERSONALLY AREN'T ATTRACTED TO MOST OF THEM.
'dyke' in the 'queer' world means 'lesbian' :heh:

Lux
16-01-2006, 12:02
dyke in the queer world means alot of things. dyke carries a negative connotation usually but in the queer world, it's ok. i don't care either way. i'm not generally attracted to butch/mannish women. that's just me.

zebu
16-01-2006, 12:26
i'm not generally attracted to butch/mannish women. that's just me.

same here. id rather go out with a guy, then a guylooking girl. why take a fake imitation if u can have the real thing.

Lux
16-01-2006, 13:25
same here. id rather go out with a guy, then a guylooking girl. why take a fake imitation if u can have the real thing.

thank you. :rose: i felt i was alone in this in terms of speaking up. and you did. thanks.
i was talking to a girl earlier tonight and during our conversation it was unclear how a girl can look boyish/mannish and even act it, but when they strip down to have sex, they are still a girl. so, for the girls who like butch/mannish girls, when they have sex with them they are still having sex with females and not males. that doesn't make sense and i don't understand it.

xmad
16-01-2006, 16:52
id rather go out with a guy, then a guylooking girl. why take a fake imitation if u can have the real thing.
fake imitation? :hooligan:

Kappa
16-01-2006, 17:12
why take a fake imitation if u can have the real thing.

Thank you for taking in count that some of us like dressing in a masculine way, but not that it doesn't mean we want to be men. :rolleyes:

xmad
16-01-2006, 17:27
darje, you are butch,right?

coolasfcuk
16-01-2006, 19:08
dyke in the queer world means alot of things. dyke carries a negative connotation usually but in the queer world, it's ok. i don't care either way. i'm not generally attracted to butch/mannish women. that's just me.
that's not what i meant - dyke carries a negative connotation usually, but it is not only ok in the queer word, in the queer world dyke does not imply butch, dyke means ANY lesbian, that's what i meant.

http://www.butch-femme.com/Faq/terms.htm - fun terms for you guys

Lux
16-01-2006, 22:09
why do girls like to dress like guys? i am very curious

xmad
16-01-2006, 22:18
why do girls like to dress like guys?
I do like to dress like guys.and I do, because it makes me feel so good.

Lux
16-01-2006, 22:50
i don't understand that.

zebu
17-01-2006, 01:44
I do like to dress like guys.and I do, because it makes me feel so good.
do u wish u were a guy?

Lux
17-01-2006, 01:49
please explain that. i don't understand it. please don't take it as an offense because i am just curious, and not judging you for it.

xmad
17-01-2006, 02:12
do u wish u were a guy?
Hmmm good question!!what do you think?:confused:

Lux
17-01-2006, 02:16
Hmmm good question!!what do you think?:confused:

how are we supposed to know? we don't know you as a person because 1. we've not met and 2. we have idea who you are.

i, at least, am only curious.

xmad
17-01-2006, 02:23
at least you can guess.what do you think of this type of people?we've not met but you've seen the people who are like me.
I'm sure you have ideas.well,share them.

freddie
17-01-2006, 02:33
at least you can guess.what do you think of this type of people?we've not met but you've seen the people who are like me.
I'm sure you have ideas.well,share them.

Depends on what do you mean with "like you". If you mean butch then I doubt every butch girl has same or even similar aspirations in her sexuality.

Lux
17-01-2006, 02:43
yeah. it's not for us to guess. it is an open ended question, and i was curious about your insight. i have no idea otherwise.

KillaQueen
17-01-2006, 10:30
i can give you my opinion on the matter. i am not what you'd call butch. i'd like to think i am somewhere in between (androgynous?). i mostly use unisex clothes. i simply HATE women clothes, i find them too short, too tight, too uncomfortable, bad colours etc. yet you may find me wearing a tight top, even though i rarely find one that suits my tastes. and i also wear tight jeans, but only when i'm bored of the loose ones. generally, i find unisex and men's clothes more appealing, and i don't wish i were a man. i just think they suit me better when i look in the mirror.

marina
17-01-2006, 14:04
LOL :D KillaQueen , I have seen several of your pics and I can assure you that you are miles away from being butch !

KillaQueen
17-01-2006, 15:41
LOL :D KillaQueen , I have seen several of your pics and I can assure you that you are miles away from being butch !
thanks, Marina! i'll take that as a compliment. heck... it IS a compliment :rose: :coctail: don't wanna seem butch now.. lol. but not femme either. LOL. ahem. ;)

Kappa
17-01-2006, 18:40
darje, you are butch,right?

Very much so.

Also, I very much doubt people around here have forgotten the pictures I posted of me as a drag king.

xmad
18-01-2006, 00:13
do u wish u were a guy?
I cant answer the question by saying "Yes" or "No".Sometimes yes I wish and sometimes not.
There are somethings(physically and characteristically) in both (men and women) that I dont like.But I dont really like/want to be like other girls.
Lux,zebu did you get what you wanted to know?

Lux
18-01-2006, 00:33
sure. it was an open ended question.