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PowerPuff Grrl
25-01-2005, 21:27
Call it the Conservative's inflation of the issue or just the predicted reaction to gay marriage coming to actualization, polygamy is now being examined to determine whether or not it should be legalized in Canada.

What do you think about; should polygamy be legalized where you live?
A poll was conducted and according to it's results 1 in 5 Canadians surprisingly have no problem with it.

I personally have no problem with it either, if consenting adults want to get into that sort of relationship then really there is no harm done. However, unlike gay marriage, I won't get particularly upset if it isn't recognized by law.

Unplugged
25-01-2005, 21:46
I am totally for it. It's practiced anyway, so why still be illegal? It makes no sense. As you said, as long as people know what they're doing... And even if they don't know what they're getting themselves into, polygamy being illegal isn't gonna stop them from doing so.

QueenBee
25-01-2005, 21:51
I don't really know.. I personally have no problem with it, I mean, people do as they wish right? As long as everyone is aware of what's going on and they aren't hurting anybody then sure. Personally I don't really see the point of it... I mean, marriage can mean alot of things for people, but generally it's either tradition or to feel connected to a person, and share such an experience. So.. I think the thought of that kinda dies out if you're gonna share that experience with a bunch of other people. :none: Then there are the emotional things, how are such relationships gonna last when there are several partners involved? But in the end I guess it's different strokes for different pholks, I mean, surely there must be people who have no problem with their husband/wife being married to somebody else at the same time, and being open about it.

nath
25-01-2005, 21:51
Does polygamy exist in a country in the meaning 1 woman for 5 husbands ?... just ask cause really don't know..
...just know , in real , the case of 1 man for 4 wives ....not sure that it was "consenting adults wanted to get into that sort of relationship"...I speak about women choice....Feel it as it was more a kind of tradition....May be it was easier to live in Africa ...but it seems sometimes more difficult to live in France (or women discover here they could have another choice for their own life)...I mean I just say about the 4 or 5 cases that I know in real life...and each time , when women arrive in France and see they have the possibility to escape from this situation with help of "social help", they ask for their independance with their children...cause life with other wives isn't easy ...

Of course , it's just an experience and i don't say nor pretend it's reflecting the general tendance of polygamy lived in france.

I think Polygamy is forbidden in France.

Unplugged
25-01-2005, 22:11
Well, if polygamy is illegal, then adultery should be illegal as well :ithink: Why such double standards?

Better make the whole thing legal, then.

Khartoun2004
25-01-2005, 22:32
I don't personally have aproblem with polygamy, however if legalized (at least this is true of the US) polygamy could cause a lot of legal problems. For example when one gets married your spouse becomes your next of kin and should something happen to you, they ahve every legal right to make medical and financial decisions on your behalf. If you die and you don't have a will, everthing goes to your spouse.

What happens if a person has more than one spouse? Does the first wife get everything? If so what's the point of having more than one legal spouse? I think there are several legal questions that should be given serious thought and discussion to before any country chooses to legalize it.

My other question is, why does it need to be legalized in the sense that, the government has to acknowldge the multiple spouses? Wouldn't it be easier, from a leagl stand point, to have one legal spouse and the others one could easily be marry in a church without the marriage license, there by making the other marriages religious marriages?

Mossopp
25-01-2005, 23:01
Never mind the legal implications - I think the very idea of having more than one sexual partner at a time is disgusting. I'm beginning to wonder if the human race has lost all decency.
Why don't we all just run naked in the street, fucking random strangers?! Why don't we all revert back to living in caves and communicating via grunts and crude pictures?! Obviously emotions and relationships mean nothing anymore!
Call me old fashioned but I believe that relationships - especially a marriage - should be completely monogamous. Otherwise a) it's not a relationship cos your partner clearly doesn't give a shit about you if he/she is happily screwing other people and b) we're no better than animals if we can't control our urges.

Unplugged
25-01-2005, 23:04
Hey Lorna :p How did your whole gigs and job interviews go? :laugh: Tell us

Ummm... Well I think it's stupid too, but people should have the right to choose, even if I don't agree with it. And I think that, once the law is changed and it becomes legal, obviously a lot has to be done regarding the other laws concerning marriage, inhereting money, etc etc

Mossopp
25-01-2005, 23:10
Hey Lorna :p How did your whole gigs and job interviews go? :laugh: Tell us

It's been a hectic and somewhat bizarre couple of days, let me tell you!
When I get my head together (and after I sleep for a solid 12 hours) I shall regale you with the tales of my travels. :rolleyes: ;)

Unplugged
25-01-2005, 23:27
It's been a hectic and somewhat bizarre couple of days, let me tell you!
When I get my head together (and after I sleep for a solid 12 hours) I shall regale you with the tales of my travels.
I can't wait!!! :eek: :p

QueenBee
25-01-2005, 23:38
This kind of reminds me of other tabu subjects... and they all involve sex! Like this is something you *know* is going on but you want nothing to do with it. :lol:

haku
25-01-2005, 23:40
There is not a single country on the planet where polygamy is legal for both genders, either it's men who can have several wives (but it's forbidden for women to have several husbands), or women who can have several husbands (but it's forbidden for men to have several wives). But both genders being allowed to have several spouses? It doesn't exist anywhere. Why? Because it quickly becomes a social mess.

In western countries, it would be impossible to legalize polygamy for only one gender, that would be discrimination, so it would have to be legal for both, but can you imagine what it would give?

So let's say that Husband A is married to Wife A, Wife B, and Wife C.
But Wife A is married to Husband A, Husband B, and Husband C; Wife B is married to Husband A, Husband D, and Husband E; and Wife C is married to Husband A, Husband D, and Husband F.
But Husband B is married to Wife A, and Wife D; Husband C is married to Wife A, Wife E, and Wife F; Husband D is married to wife B, Wife G, and Wife H; Husband E is married to Wife B, Wife I, and Wife J, and Husband F is married to Wife C, and Wife K.
But Wife D is married to... etc, etc, etc.

Now imagine all those Husbands and Wives each having 2 or 3 children, can you imagine the level of complexity or the relationships thus created?

I don't think any modern country is going to legalize such a potential social mess.

spyretto
25-01-2005, 23:54
Never mind the legal implications - I think the very idea of having more than one sexual partner at a time is disgusting. I'm beginning to wonder if the human race has lost all decency.
Why don't we all just run naked in the street, fucking random strangers?! Why don't we all revert back to living in caves and communicating via grunts and crude pictures?! Obviously emotions and relationships mean nothing anymore!
Call me old fashioned but I believe that relationships - especially a marriage - should be completely monogamous. Otherwise a) it's not a relationship cos your partner clearly doesn't give a shit about you if he/she is happily screwing other people and b) we're no better than animals if we can't control our urges.

oh common, we can't go naked on the streets! But I propose that polygamy is legalised and the attire of the Arab robe be made compulsory...is that thread supposed to show how liberal minds we are? :confused: :p

PowerPuff Grrl
26-01-2005, 00:46
Just so it is known, the whole polygamy thing was brought up by the Mormons out West. Polygamy is legal in the State of Utah in the US (American posters; please correct me if I wrong here), of course a state mostly inhabited by Mormons. I do not see why Islam or Africa have to be specifically brought up.

As for running around naked, Mossop I am sorry to disappoint you there but Canada has legalized women going topless. Not just in the beach (beaches in Canada, HA!) but out on the street too. Granted no woman has tried it yet for the past 5+ years, it is just allowed out of principle. So, how's that for liberal, spyretto? :coctail:

I don't think any modern country is going to legalize such a potential social mess.

I don't think any country would overlook that situation if it were to ever legalize polygamy. Some set of limitations would be established to avoid complications like that, for instance; group of people in marriage cannot join in another group of people... who are married. Oh and uh, only x number of people maximum in polygamous marriage. I don't think it necessarily has to be 1 wife and x number of husbands or 1 husband and x number of wives. Mix it up a bit! 2 wives and three husbands, etc...
I think the law can work its way around it, hell I'm having fun just making some up!

haku
26-01-2005, 01:09
Some set of limitations would be established to avoid complications like that, for instance; group of people in marriage cannot join in another group of people... who are married.Ok, i would agree to that.

General polygamy where anyone can marry anyone is just way too complicated, but some kind of "group marriage" which would be nothing more than just a marriage with more than 2 people is perfectly acceptable to me.

A group marriage (groupiage? lol) would simply be the union of 3 or more people (a upper limit would have to be set though) and a person would not be allowed to be part of more than one groupiage at a time.

In that case that would be fine by me.

spyretto
26-01-2005, 01:11
Just so it is known, the whole polygamy thing was brought up by the Mormons out West. Polygamy is legal in the State of Utah in the US (American posters; please correct me if I wrong here), of course a state mostly inhabited by Mormons. I do not see why Islam or Africa have to be specifically brought up.

As for running around naked, Mossop I am sorry to disappoint you there but Canada has legalized women going topless. Not just in the beach (beaches in Canada, HA!) but out on the street too. Granted no woman has tried it yet for the past 5+ years, it is just allowed out of principle. So, how's that for liberal, spyretto? :coctail:

Liberal my foot...You can see topless women sunbathing in parks if it's a very hot day even here in the UK. But they do their utmost to cover themselves. Beaches are also a place where they can sunbathe topless, I don't see why we have to bring it to the streets too? And who would do it? Only some exhibitionist...As for polygamy, you're also forgetting China. It was all about male polygamy but maybe there was female polygamy sometime in the ancient matriarchal societies? ( like in Greece, the Aegean civilization which was purely matriarchal ) But the first thing that comes to mind when you think of polygamy and where it is practised today is the Arab world. Do they practise it in Utah as well? And they don't want to legalise abortion? Not to forget that Americans have crazy laws... :rolleyes: :p

QueenBee
26-01-2005, 01:28
Holy crap... that would mean we could all be relatives... *Shiver*

simon
26-01-2005, 03:15
lPolygamy is legal in the State of Utah in the US (American posters; please correct me if I wrong here), of course a state mostly inhabited by Mormons.
I'm not an American, but I do know that polygamy is illegal in Utah. They were required to make it illegal to join the United States and the Mormon church renounced the practice. However, polygamy is still practiced by some Mormons and the state of Utah doesn't prosecute them. So it's illegal but unofficially tolerated.

As for polygamy, you're also forgetting China. It was all about male polygamy but maybe there was female polygamy sometime in the ancient matriarchal societies?
Polyandry was practiced in Tibet, but it wasn't as wonderful for the woman as it sounds. All the husbands were brothers and she had to cook and clean for all of them.

Never mind the legal implications - I think the very idea of having more than one sexual partner at a time is disgusting. I'm beginning to wonder if the human race has lost all decency.
Why don't we all just run naked in the street, fucking random strangers?! Why don't we all revert back to living in caves and communicating via grunts and crude pictures?! Obviously emotions and relationships mean nothing anymore!
Call me old fashioned but I believe that relationships - especially a marriage - should be completely monogamous. Otherwise a) it's not a relationship cos your partner clearly doesn't give a shit about you if he/she is happily screwing other people and b) we're no better than animals if we can't control our urges.
Wow! Strong feelings, Mossopp. I don't agree, because some people manage to have successful non-monogamous relationships. A hundred years ago people said the same sort of things about divorce and remarriage or sex before marriage that you're saying now. They had the idea that sexual relationships should be lifelong and aimed at procreation. We have very different values now. Everyone nowadays openly behaves in ways that would have shocked our great-grandparents to the core. I think that monogamy may continue to be regarded as a romantic ideal, like marriage, but the social taboo against infidelity may go the way of the taboos against divorce, contraception, illegitimacy and premarital sex.

spyretto
26-01-2005, 03:58
yeah, for example: Angelina Jolie :laugh:

noki_the_cat
26-01-2005, 05:05
POLYGYNY IN THE MORMON MOVEMENT:
In Bountiful, British Columbia, Canada


http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly1.htm

Sick bunch!!! :mad:

coolasfcuk
26-01-2005, 05:19
http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly1.htm

Men must have at least three wives and as many children as possible in order to enter the highest level of heaven, and to have the opportunity to evolve into a God.

A woman's role is to serve a man and be submissive to his needs.

Women who disobey men will have their souls burn in Hell for eternity.

Children are usually required to leave school at the age of 13 or 14.

Their marriage ceremony consists of the woman placing her hand in the man's hand in what is called "the patriarchal grip."

A man is not permitted to have sexual intercourse with one of his wives if she is pregnant.

"If...an older man seduces a 13-year old girl....in his own mind he doesn't commit sexual abuse.....he views himself as married." (Comment by Ron Barton, special investigator of "closed societies," at the Utah State Attorney's Office)

Because all the plural marriages, except perhaps for the first one, are celestial, and not legal unions, FLDS men are not polygamists; they are only adulterers in the eyes of the state. Adultery is not a criminal act.

:bebebe: God bless my mommy and daddy for having ME, because I wouldnt want to be born into THIS massive shit!

thegurgi
26-01-2005, 05:24
My question is, is it just Polygamy (1 man and many women) to be legal, or both it and Polyandry (1 woman and many men) ... or is this just will it get a new term like "Mass Marriage" or something...

spyretto
26-01-2005, 06:03
POLYGYNY IN THE MORMON MOVEMENT:
In Bountiful, British Columbia, Canada


http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly1.htm

Sick bunch!!! :mad:


Oh the sick mofos :D ...and we had them coming to our house when I was little for conversion.
They all dress alike and behave alike, it's like the Aryan race from hell.

Polygyny is the right term - for one man and many women - thegurgi...polygamy refers to both sexes so when they say they investigate whether blah blah blah they obviously mean both sexes.

rosh
26-01-2005, 08:30
as far as i know, polyandry is still practised in nepal as well [just as an aside]

i think the principle of having several wives to one husband evolved during war times [in some areas] due to the higher ratio of women to men. everyone is going to have their own spin on things i guess and add traditions and "laws" etc about how this all should work. and generally yes, women end up being the subserviant ones.

haku
26-01-2005, 13:17
Yeah, people often confuse polygamy and polygyny nowadays. I suppose it's because during historical times, polygyny became much more common than polyandry, and so when polygamy is mentioned people immediately think of polygyny.

That being said, in prehistorical times, it's polyandry that was the rule. In those days men spent most of their time hunting and fighting with rival tribes, early deaths were pretty common. Women never left the dwelling and relied completely on men for food, women had to have several husbands because if they had only one and he died during a hunt or a fight, she wouldn't get any food for her and her children, so it was just common sense to have several husbands to limit that risk.
For men however it made no sense to have several wives because there was no way one man would be able to feed several women and their children, so polygyny was unknown.

It's only with civilization that polygyny started to develop. With civilizations appeared clear hierarchy among men, some men became leaders, they had power and wealth, so it became possible for them to have several wives. Also, those men had to transmit their power and wealth to their descendants, so having legitimate heirs became a major concern. It became customary for those men to have several wives to insure that they would get several male heirs. Those men also tended to live longer, so it also became customary to take a new young wife (and in those days that meant something like 12 yo) when the first older wife was no longer so appealing and fertile.

In most civilizations, not only polygyny developed, but polyandry decayed. First because with agriculture and breeding it became easier for one man to feed one or more women and their children, but also and mainly because the notions of property and heritage appeared. Men wanted their properties to be transmitted to children they were sure to have fathered. With polyandry, since women had several husbands, a man was never sure which children were his, and with properties to transmit that became unacceptable for men. So not only polyandry decayed, but in most cases it was even declared illegal and adultery became a serious crime for women.


So both polyandry and polygyny originally had logical reasons to exist, reasons that made sense in the social contexts of their times.
But now in modern societies where people are free to screw around as much as they want in any number and gender combinations, i'm not sure there is even a need to have any kind of formal union between people (whatever gender and number).