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View Full Version : Missing members and why they left - discussion


Unplugged
07-12-2004, 17:26
I liked these members, but they're gone! :eek: WHY?!?!?!

I have a possible explanation for kirillov, but I don't know about the others.

So, kirillov felt bad after some girls in this forum told him he should stop talking about wanking, and I heard he deleted all his posts and went away. Actually, although it wasn't always on the right time, I thought the guy was pretty funny! At least, original. It's always nice to have some random moments on the forum. Personally, I would laugh my ass off everytime I was reading a serious discussion, with the usual opinions and theories, and then some random comment comes: "Hi, I've just wanked" :lol: It's like... WHAT?!?! :lol: So, I think people were too old-fashioned with kirillov, he was just an original guy, he wasn't trying to offend anyone!
kirillov, if you're reading this, please do post again! :done:

As for guesshoo, she was a really sweet, funny person who used to post often, and was one of the regulars on the Q&A Game. I loved her! But she hasn't said anything for ages. Anybody know anything from her?

And what about taty994945 (I had to check the member list to get the numbers right :p ), aka John, that randomly hilarious australian guy? What happened to him? He was sooo addicted to the forum, he seemed to enjoy himself a lot here, so why did he leave without even saying a word?
I remember kishkash used to chat with him on MSN... Maybe she can make things clearer. :ithink:

So, if anyone has some informations on the departure of these members, please reveal them! Also, if you think these members don't belong here and would like to explain why, go ahead. And if you share my thoughts about having them here, speak out as well! :p

Kate
07-12-2004, 17:31
I dunno about the others, but kirillov has completely disappeared off the member's list. :ithink:

haku
07-12-2004, 17:32
kirillov and taty994945 still visit the forum, they just don't post anymore, they've become lurkers.

guesshoo still visits too, but she's only active on Tatu.us now.

I dunno about the others, but kirillov has completely disappeared off the member's list.That's because he has deleted all his posts, members with 0 posts do not appear in the members list.

Kate
07-12-2004, 17:39
That's because he has deleted all his posts, members with 0 posts do not appear in the members list. Oh. Didn't know that.

I hope he didn't delete all his posts because of what I said. Even though I still stand by my opinion about his sudden, inappropriate outbursts. In fact, I thought he took my comment very well, and posted on the forum for quite a while afterwards, didn't he? :hmmm:

QueenBee
07-12-2004, 17:39
Well, I've no idea what happened to them actually... I agree with you on Kirillov, but he got on peoples nerves I guess. I found him funny though, and how brave of him to post such things in the middle of a serious discussion :hmmm:

Taty372850195715365783, well I used to chat with him on MSN aswell but we weren't really having any serious discussions of sorts... Mostly about vodka and stuff (*cheers* for you tatynumbers) so maybe he drank himself to death? :p

Guesshoo was such a sweetie! I really liked her, and it's really too bad that she's gone, she was very calm and respecting.

Now, does anyone know anything about Jockdxstylez? (Sorry but I'm not sure if I got her username right... it's been a while) She moved somewhere without Internet but was supposed to post now and then? :spy:

Other than that, alot of regular users are gone... Frankly I can't remember all their names now. I'm guessing TvA will never return, and Rosh is posting less, I'm guessing it's because of her busy life. ;) Then we also have Powerpuff Grrl, but she posted mostly in the general forum (don't we all?)

And what about Cniaju and my husband Cirrus? Cniaju said something about not being able to go online just as often as he used to... He was such a smartass. :p And I hope he returns.

My husband Cirrus was da bomb. I MISS YOU! :kwink:

Unplugged
07-12-2004, 18:48
kirillov and taty994945 still visit the forum, they just don't post anymore, they've become lurkers.
:eek: Well I hope they read this and reply, then! I want them back! :nunu: :p

guesshoo still visits too, but she's only active on Tatu.us now
Really? But she seemed to enjoy herself here. Personally, I will never understand how people can enjoy themselves on Tatu.us :ill:

I hope he didn't delete all his posts because of what I said.
It wasn't just you. Several people said he was inappropriate, and he probably felt like he was bothering. I'm just guessing, though. It's what makes more sense to me.

Guesshoo was such a sweetie! I really liked her, and it's really too bad that she's gone, she was very calm and respecting.
I agree :( She was calm and respecting, and not gullable, which is a great thing.

Now, does anyone know anything about Jockdxstylez? (Sorry but I'm not sure if I got her username right... it's been a while) She moved somewhere without Internet but was supposed to post now and then?
True. I guess she got over the whole tATu thing and didn't feel like having other discussions here.

I'm guessing TvA will never return
Yeah, most likely. Maybe he lost his love for Yulia Volkova? :p He was so funny.

Rosh is posting less
Rosh is busy with her new love :love: hihi! But I'll pressure her to vote on the Forum Awards, at least!

And what about Cniaju
I believe that he can't access the internet that often since he moved to his own place.

and my husband Cirrus?
He still comes by and says hi once in a while :p

taty994945
08-12-2004, 00:05
I’m still here. I’ve just decided to never talk to anyone ever again. Nothing personal. :) Kirillov isn’t coming back because he’s been a naughty boy. ;)

Unplugged
08-12-2004, 00:19
I’m still here. I’ve just decided to never talk to anyone ever again. Nothing personal.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

What do you mean, "nothing personal"? :confused: At least you could explain why :( I've always appreciated you

Kate
08-12-2004, 02:59
taty994945, we all loved you here... :( What went wrong?

taty994945
08-12-2004, 06:04
katbeidar and staringelf nothing went wrong, I just felt bad [personal reasons] and decided to keep quiet. :) Anyhow, it's very fun to read everyone's posts these days. :p I am also kirillov if you didn't get the hint. :p

Kate
08-12-2004, 06:08
taty994945, aaaaaaawwww. Don't feel bad. :heh: We appretiate all kinds of people here, and diversity is what makes TatySite.net such a great place.

nath
08-12-2004, 07:09
I am also kirillov if you didn't get the hint. :p
Hi-hi...too funny !...:done:

Mossopp
08-12-2004, 09:23
:p I am also kirillov if you didn't get the hint. :p
When "kirillov" first started posting the thought crossed my mind that it might actually be you. I don't know why that thought occurred to me though. Maybe I'm psychic. :none:

marina
08-12-2004, 10:06
i never knew taty994945 but i was sure that kirillov is somebody's else little shadow ....he just tryed a little bit too hard to look real .. playing the dork with mental age of 12 year old

freddie
08-12-2004, 11:32
Now, does anyone know anything about Jockdxstylez? (Sorry but I'm not sure if I got her username right... it's been a while) She moved somewhere without Internet but was supposed to post now and then? :spy:

*misses* :(

Unplugged
08-12-2004, 15:52
nothing went wrong, I just felt bad [personal reasons] and decided to keep quiet.
Well, why?! I'm sorry but I can't understand. I don't remember anyone saying anything to you to make you feel bad and not wanting to participate anymore :confused:

LOL And you being kirillov does make sense! :laugh:

Mossopp
08-12-2004, 16:12
Can I ask why there was ever a need for "kirilov" in the first place? I know no forum is complete without one bam-pot constantly exclaiming the virtues of masturbation but why create an alterego in order to do so?
:ithink:
And if anyone else here is using a pseu-diddly-udonym speak now or forever hold your peace.
I'm kinda bugged-out by the thought that several of you might actually be one and the same person. What if there are really only 3 members here? - myself, taty994945/kirilov and the crazy evil genius who devised 'staringelf' and 'queenbee' and 'Ice_Cream' and 'haku' and 'teeny' and every other "member" on this forum!
None of you are real! None of you!!!!! It's all a hoax!!

*hides in a box and awaits the end of the world*

forre
08-12-2004, 16:21
forre and katbeidar is one and the same person for instance. :D

Mossopp
08-12-2004, 16:22
forre and katbeidar is one and the same person for instance. :D
Aaaaaaaaaaarrghhhhhhh!!
*brain explodes*

teeny
08-12-2004, 16:51
I'm kinda bugged-out by the thought that several of you might actually be one and the same person.yeah I know.. and it's such a pain in the butt to keep logging in and out each time I want to say something as a response to myself. No wonder I'm keeping a low profile now :heh:

QueenBee
08-12-2004, 17:03
*Evil grin*

Unplugged
08-12-2004, 17:13
I didn't even know it was possible for one to have 2 accounts with the same IP. Doesn't Igor track this? :gigi:

Anyway, tatynumbers and kirillov, please come back! :p

nath
08-12-2004, 17:30
forre and katbeidar is one and the same person for instance. :D
:eek: :bum:

kishkash
09-12-2004, 03:16
*misses* :( *hugs* yah JD was a laff :(

and PFFFFFFT to tatynumbers LOL yu made a foo out of them all [snaps for u ;)]

luxxi
09-12-2004, 09:15
I didn't even know it was possible for one to have 2 accounts with the same IP. Doesn't Igor track this? :gigi:



You can always go to your neighbour and acess from his computer. Like I do when I want to post as freddie. :laugh:

:newyear:

Kate
09-12-2004, 09:20
forre and katbeidar is one and the same person for instance. :D That would be a wonderfully interesting case of a split personality. :gigi: :laugh:

Kate
09-12-2004, 09:25
freddie, is that really you or is it luxxi replying to himself? :p :hah:

luxxi
09-12-2004, 09:29
freddie, is that really you or is it luxxi replying to himself? :p :hah:

No, it was me posting as freddie. :yes:

:newyear:

Kate
09-12-2004, 09:31
luxxi, I see. :spy:

Mossopp
09-12-2004, 10:32
Oh. My. God. I am so confused right now. :hmmm:
You are all evil.

spyretto
09-12-2004, 11:02
I just got the scoop on kirillov. He became a benedictine monk and decided to dedicate the rest of his life into warning young people against the perils of musturbation. He has just finished writing a diatribe on the subject while he's intending to further his research by reopening the long-sought correlation between masturbation and blindness. That is a true story and only wankers refuse to believe it.

As it is well known, he always had a tendency towards religious matters, hence his username kirillov, a tribute to Cyril, Christian missionary to the Slavs.

Funny enough, he also confirmed the rumour that forre and katbeidar is the same person - His real name is Sartor Guidar, by the way. It also rhymes with Kate Beidar.
and that's the scoop :)

After these important developments it is now believed that the fans of Russian group t.A.T.u. do not exceed the number of thirteen, each using several nicks to write on various sites which have still to go caput. It is estimated that each real person uses an average of 329 different nicks. We're talking some dedicated fans...these fans tend to often fight each other personas in the name of entertainment and in keeping the interest in the group on high levels. By "high" meaning that the estimated number of lurkers in these sites are an average of 2.39 each week.

And that's the scoop on that one too...

Mossopp
09-12-2004, 11:10
....musturbation......
Does that involve mustard?
Kinky. :none:

spyretto
09-12-2004, 11:34
no, that'd be mustarbation...and because you got into the task of spotting it , I won't go into the task of changing it :)

QueenBee
09-12-2004, 23:59
Jekyll and Hyde much?

PowerPuff Grrl
10-12-2004, 03:08
Then we also have Powerpuff Grrl, but she posted mostly in the general forum (don't we all?)


Um, I'm right here. I haven't been that absent from the forums, have I?
Figures, I never really make much of an impression on people anyhow. That and I never really cared much for Tatu so I pretty much avoided the Tatu discussion forum (too many bad memories from that other forum). Funny thing, I only realized a couple of weeks ago that Tatu broke up, or whatever, after reading some negative posts about them from people who I thought were hard-core fans. I felt so worried for those posters thinking the fans would attack with a vengence. Silly me.

Is Echoed still around?
And where the hell is cniaju?

I'm just surprised somebody noticed I was gone.

kishkash
10-12-2004, 03:29
I only realized a couple of weeks ago that Tatu broke up, or whatever :eek: they broke up? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo *can be heard in the distance still yelling*

anyway PPG..just make sure u keep posting :kwink:

teeny
10-12-2004, 09:55
And where the hell is cniaju?*searches memory*
he moved to a new appartment I think. He still post once in a while when at his parents place or with Niko.. I think :lalala:

luxxi
10-12-2004, 12:12
Jekyll and Hyde much?

More like Jerkoff and Hide..... :spy:

:newyear:

Mossopp
10-12-2004, 12:47
Now that's a pun! Nice. :laugh: :D

Lux
10-12-2004, 15:07
i miss mossopp, teeny, rachel, xena, echoed, cool, haku, THEvolkovaADDICT, veggiedelite, QB, nataku, rob
who else who else
together or separetely

Mossopp
10-12-2004, 15:26
i miss mossopp, teeny, rachel, xena, echoed, cool, haku, THEvolkovaADDICT, veggiedelite, QB, nataku, rob...who else who else

How is possible to miss me? I'm here practically every single day.
I do appreciate the sentiment though. Thanks sweetie-dahling! :kwink: :D

teeny
10-12-2004, 15:35
How is possible to miss me? I'm here practically every single dayyou can still be missed when you sleep or so :kwink:
Guess the old me is missed. The old me who was calm and (what was the other word, Miguel?) durring discussions. I'm happy with the new me though. Sorry to those who are not.

Kate
10-12-2004, 15:44
Lux, what? Most of those people are still here...

freddie
11-12-2004, 00:27
Does anyone still remember FadingAway? That kid from America. He was a mod on The Island Of The Arts even, for a while. He disapeared in May 2003.

Then there's Yulenia (or something like that. :P), my favourite girl JockedStylz of course. My lesbian lover Darje. Karxwp. Lenochka, Uhaku, Bitty and Volkotina. Then there's the mod of all mods Echoed, which some people succesfully drove away with their ignorance and lack of respect (besides the fact that she had less time for the forum things at that point). There's also someone else on this forum I sorely miss, but shall remain unmentioned for undisclosed reasons...

There are still a BUNCH of other people who made this forum as special as it once was... Cniaju, Tranz, Cirrus, Crni (he doesn't come much on lately anyway).

Hmmm... who else...TvA, Xenna (banned unrightfully - it'd really be great if she'd get unblocked), same goes for Rob and Nike75.

Mossopp
11-12-2004, 00:34
I do wish TvA would come back. He was a top bloke and I really miss his contribution to the forum.
I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding Xena's banning but Rob is certainly missed. He helped me out once and I am very greatful for his generosity.
I often wonder about darje too. We had a slight *aherm* altercation a while back and she vanished completely soon after. It'd be good just to know she's ok.
Parrish122 is another member I really miss. She was really supportive of me when I was going through a particularly rough patch last year. It'd be great to hear from her again, if only to express one more time how greatful I am to her.

freddie
11-12-2004, 00:37
Oh yeah. Parrish, as well. And Russkayatatu could be pronounced missing.

thegurgi
11-12-2004, 00:39
I miss Jocked a lot, she was was my best forum pal long before Denial ever was, we watched Eurovision via Internet together, it was very exiciting, and i was the last person she talked to before she left (she said, i'm disconnecting now, i'll miss you)... It was sad! I also miss Karwxp! i didn't think about it til Freddie mentioned, she was great!

... this thread brings a lot of nostalgia, to another time a long time ago

Rachel
11-12-2004, 00:40
Believe it or not Lorna, TvA has actually got a job now!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I speak to Parrish pretty much every day of MSN :)

freddie, Brenna is often on MSN too :)

Mossopp
11-12-2004, 00:41
Believe it or not Lorna, TvA has actually got a job now!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
You're fucking kidding! No way!!! What's he doing?

Rachel
11-12-2004, 00:46
You're fucking kidding! No way!!! What's he doing?He's working in a hotel. I gave him an ulltimatum months ago that if he didn't get a job within 2 months I'd never speak to him again LMAO :D Well, a few nights ago, after having him blocked for the past month or so, I get a txt on my phone from him at about 3am telling me to unblock him and that he's got a job! Seems it did the trick! LMAO

Rachel
11-12-2004, 00:49
Tell her to add me. :pWill do :)

Mossopp
11-12-2004, 00:51
Philbert has a job.
Wow.
This is gonna take a while to sink in. :laugh:
Tell him I wish him all the best and it's about time he got his lazy arse off the sofa! :D

Rachel
11-12-2004, 00:54
... it's about time he got his lazy arse off the sofa! :DExactlly! I don't think it's fair I pay my taxes so he can sit on his fat ass and claim benefits! :mad:

Lux
11-12-2004, 03:59
this is a reunion. lovely.

freds, i miss many of those you have mentioned. however, i speak to a few regularly.
reminiscing reminds me of when this forum was different. times have changed.

cybernetic nostalgia sure is sweet. maybe its human nature. maybe i was younger. maybe i should focus and write my paper. :none:

ps. i'm glad some of us are still here and this forum is alive and kicking :cool: :wantkiss: :flag: :rev:

Mossopp
11-12-2004, 10:51
Exactlly! I don't think it's fair I pay my taxes so he can sit on his fat ass and claim benefits! :mad:
Hell yeah! People like that piss me off too! :mad:
*goes into a silent rant about work-shy good-for-nothings who earn more on benefits than I do working my arse off day after day....!*

spyretto
12-12-2004, 00:14
Oh yeah. Parrish, as well. And Russkayatatu could be pronounced missing.

ruskaya posts from time to time..I gather she's too busy with her studies...as for the rest, well, they obviously got disappointed, pissed off or fed up with Tatu and they left. What more natural than that?

On a bright note, there are lots of cool members who are still here ;)

Ningyo
12-12-2004, 00:45
Lenochka, Uhaku, Bitty and Volkotina.

Uhaku is very much alive and busy. She's got a girlfriend and a job now. And well, there's also her second novel...

Echoed
12-12-2004, 09:20
Oh. Um. Hi?

Thanks for the mention, PPG, Lux. Slovene Face. :P Hah.

I'm not really here though. Carried away by the sands of so-much-school-work-and-general-work-that-I-want-to-stab-myself-in-the-face-with-a-fork. And time. ^_^'

Hi to those people I sometimes harrass on MSN, though I don't know how I manage the time for it. School hates my face.

Hope y'all are doin' well out there. And that school and work do not hate your collective faces, because that's just uncool.


EDIT: On a side note, what UP PowerPuffGrrl, my Canadian SOUL Sista. What be goin' down in dah hood, homie-G-dawg-gir'frien'?! Jigga, what. Okay. I'm done now.


~Echo.

nath
12-12-2004, 09:35
ARW.....Welcome my Echo!....:heart:....hope to see you here more often....Try during Holidays....we miss your intelligent Humour !....Kiss :rose:

To speak frankly, I feel as Tatysite has changed last year....:sad:
First , we tought it could be about the fact that t.A.T.u doesn't sing anymore and aren't gay...
Indeed, I don't think it's the reason...and the most I speak with people , the most they all say to me the same thing....They left taysite because...they didn't find anymore interest in the posts..
Before , here, people were sharing most about their impressions about Music, about society or general big problems...there was more creativity in the Art Section....
Having the part about Russion songs gave a new breath to tatysite ...but it isn't enough...

tatysite helped a lot of tennagers to build themselves as grown up persons....that's why , for my part, i found it very interesting....
if , to help them , we just have now threads about: Does Yulia has true or faulse hair?...may be it isn't enough....
I'm not against this kind of thread at all....not what I say ...but I'm enough sad it became the "predominent" kind of subject....

*This post isn't at all an agressive post....*...it's just a way of reflexion about the future of tatysite.....I don't want criticize people who create posts here cause i don't create threads by myself, so it would be unfair for the ones who create threads here...but i would like to say...may be we should think together about the destiny of Tatysite... and try to think about its orientation...and for that , try to check , without cheating, the Real Causes why so much people of quality left tatysite...

Just cheek this thread....and see by yourselves....a lot of people who don't post anymore...have appeared again!...it's a fact....that means they are around ...not all eaten by the external life...but they don't post anymore........ :(

They are still linked to this little family by their "invisible" presence but don't post ....
So may be, we should try to think all together about what happened on tatysite....why so much people left tatysite ?.....to avoid this site of quality'd finish as tatu , itself...(and I hope they release a new album, of course)...

And I would like to say, too: Russkayatatu,Sunny Poison, Volkotina, Bitty ,Echo, Puff, Uhaku, Parrish, Jock, a girl with a number in her name"@$*#" (sorry i don't remember the number...),Darje, Karxwp, Lenochka,Cool, cniaju...and a lot of others....please...try to come back more often....you were an indispensable, a necessary part of the squeletor of tatysite....
Please, come back for tatysite ....for the depth and intelligence of your posts....Tatysite needs you ..:yes::rose:

I miss Xena , too.

Mossopp
12-12-2004, 12:05
tatysite helped a lot of teenagers to build themselves as grown up persons....
if , to help them , we just have now threads about: Does Yulia has true or faulse hair?...may be it isn't enough....
I'm not against this kind of thread at all....not what I say ...but I'm enough sad it became the "predominent" kind of subject....
You know what? I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I know I for one found these forums an amazing source of knowledge and support during the phase where I was gradually coming out to everyone and, although I wasn't a teenager at that point, I certainly did a lot of growing up.
I'm not saying that I no longer need the advice and friendship of the people I've met here, but you do get to a point where the reason you stick with something is because you've already been with it for so long rather than you actually strongly rely on it anymore.
Also, a lot of people flocked to tatysite in the beginning because tATu were actually relevant and people could relate to them. We had new members joining all the time even if they didn't necessarily stick around or post more than once or twice. Now we hardly get anyone new coming here because tATu are no longer important. Hell, most people think they don't even exist as a band anymore! It's no wonder noone new joins and a lot of the old members are leaving.

freddie
12-12-2004, 13:28
Dunno. I posted a lot about religion, politics, life, sexuality... I think it's more about the fan-base shrinking then anything else. You have to understand that most people visited the tatu part of the forums, and only frequented the general parts of the forum as pass-time. It was tatu that gave real dynamics to this place. I know some people who stopped frequenting the forum just cause tatu aren't as popular and nothing new is happening in tatu world. And some of those people were regular posters on the general forum as well. They just lost will to come here, since the original reason at them being here in the first place was pretty much gone.

I think the forum still has some pretty interesting topics. :)

teeny
12-12-2004, 21:34
I think part of my problem with most threads, is that I feel like they were created for the purpose of getting more posting members. Instead of before where it seemed like people really had something to say in the matter and therefor one felt like joining the discussion.

It could be that we already discussed important matters fully and are left with the wig situation. Then again, since it seems like most members share the same opinion about tatu, the news about them dies, as soon as they are posted, and members are left fighting having to discuss anything they have in common besides the music.

*out of ideas*

Lux
13-12-2004, 04:16
i think the nature of forums is just to have something to talk about. content is important, but when people flock together in the interest of a group and that interest morphs into interest in each other, content quality is not the top priority. in fact, it takes a backseat. when there is less of the group to talk about, it is natural to talk for the sake of talking. making fun of a group/people arouses interest because of its humourous intent, keeping the forum alive. it is also humorous in itself to join in the collective lighthearted attitude.
what is discussion, really? presenting various opinions on serious matters? backing up those opinions with rationale and reason? or is it counting how many ways one can laugh at or mock a piece of trivial information?

i miss the members mentioned previously because in discussions, they presented and supported opinions with rational thinking. if not rational thinking, then rational humor. it was not as though the tone of the forum iron clad, but the sake of discussion was taken seriously. there was a time when i looked forward to sharing opinions and receiving logical responses.

kishkash
13-12-2004, 04:54
clarify please

coolasfcuk
13-12-2004, 05:39
there was a time when i looked forward to sharing opinions and receiving logical responses.
:rose:

very good. I just want to add that, maybe it is just me and my current state of stress and evaluation of my life to this point, but ... I can honestly say that i simply dont want to post here anymore, because it seems to me like the level of intelligence has drastically dropped (yes, that's exatly what Im saying) And then I thought to myself "oh my fucking god, 2 years of my life are gone and so many hours were wasted in me participating in something like that .... something that wasnt intellectually stimulating?! :dead:" And I got angry at myslef...but...
in fact, I want to thank you for your posts, Lux and sunwalk, because even though it might not really make me change my mind completely, it does remind me that this place used to be different... maybe i was different too.....

Anyways, as i said, maybe it is my state of mind right now, I mean after all ... this is just an internet site about pseudo lesbian X pop group :laugh: Either way, I am back to being sooooooooooo pre occupied with actual work and schools and that my time for 'play' is now very limited or non-existent at times ....

And finally, not to sound too dark, there are good things that came out of this site, few relationships, which are strong enough to exist without this site anyways :D :heart:

luxxi
13-12-2004, 09:04
i think the nature of forums is just to have something to talk about. content is important, but when people flock together in the interest of a group and that interest morphs into interest in each other, content quality is not the top priority. in fact, it takes a backseat. when there is less of the group to talk about, it is natural to talk for the sake of talking. making fun of a group/people arouses interest because of its humourous intent, keeping the forum alive. it is also humorous in itself to join in the collective lighthearted attitude.
what is discussion, really? presenting various opinions on serious matters? backing up those opinions with rationale and reason? or is it counting how many ways one can laugh at or mock a piece of trivial information?


:yes: IMO people post here so that ther is something going on. So you have people posting about evolution/creationism, priests preaching on beaches, supermarket chain getting sued over PAEL label, US elections, girls dumping "dodgy CD" boyfriends......

Also many of US are here becasue of inertia. If we were here for so long why leave? Maybe something interesting will pop up.

:newyear:

forre
13-12-2004, 09:19
People come and people leave - it happens on ALL forums. Some loose interest in the main subject, some people don't find any spare time for hanging around and some just switch to something more interesting for them at the moment. So it's pretty normal and doesn't mean that the world is going under yet. That's just a normal order of things.

Bitty2002
13-12-2004, 09:33
I check the forum on occasion. I haven't left it completely, because it was important to me at one time...and I met my g/f here, and there are still some people whose posts I enjoy (but mostly I come on here to read the incredulous posts made by some people, which of course only make me angry- I enjoy tormenting myself).

I can only speak for myself, but I left because I no longer liked being here. There was/is too much condescending negativity and belligerent attitudes. One of the main reasons people like to say about why so many of the fans left tatysite is that is was due to the decline and truth coming out about Tatu. I can say for myself that is was not Tatu’s change that made me no longer want to be here, but the change in people’s bitter attitudes. People have the right to be upset, but personally I wasn’t that upset and had no desire to sit here in the wallowing self-pity and bitterness that has surrounded the forum. It depressed me to the nth degree. Months after the “truth” was revealed people continue to be filled with bitterness. That is their prerogative, but personally I don’t want to be around it. I’ve gotten over any disappointment I may have had and would rather not dwell on it. Also, because of the amount of bitterness people continue to have, they tend to nit pick and mock and make fun of Tatu. While many of you may still like Tatu, the general feeling around here is negative towards them still. I continue to follow Tatu because I still like them, not because I hate them and wait to watch them fall on their faces as I sit back laughing. Not my cup of tea. And, to be completely and totally honest, a year ago, whenever Kate would post, people couldn’t believe how rude she was. Now, a lot of you have become mini-Kates, her little minions. I rarely enjoyed Kate’s posts (sorry Kate) and now that there are hundreds of them, it makes me want to run away.

And, my favorite thing is how certain some of you are about the ‘truth’ now. Half of you were fooled before, what makes you such a good judge of character now? I have never liked when someone speaks as if something were definitely true, whether talking about Tatu’s boyfriends or being together. I doesn’t matter what side you are on, it matters that you speak as if you know 100%, and you simply can’t. Yet, you sit there so smug and sure of yourself. I think the one thing I learned from Tatu was not to believe everything I see, hear, read, etc. 100%. I can lean towards something, speculate on one thing, think one thing when you add up all the clues is more likely to be true, but the only thing I know for sure is that Lena and Yulia are female…or are they? Hmm, that is true. Never mind, I can’t know anything for sure.

And lastly, because I feel that nothing is 100% true, I still enjoy speculating on their possible relationship (past or present and to what extent they may have had or have one). And it’s soo funny how some people were sooo sure they must be straight, straight as a ruler even. Yet, Yulia for sure has never said she was not bisexual, in fact she has said more to the fact that she is bisexual. Lena, she hasn’t said anything conclusive either way. But she did say that she and Yulia were going through the same things of questioning friendship or sexual attraction (and this was AFTER their supposed coming out as fakes). Yet, if I were to say anything of the like on here, I would most likely be scoffed at, mocked, and made to feel foolish. Because it’s soooooo obvious I am delusional. Well, I know I’m not and hate being around people that continue to try and imply that I am. *shrugs* So, I’ve gone over to tatu*us where a lot of fans like myself have been run off to. Oh, that’s also something awfully annoying and part of the reason I left. I never really visited the .us forum back when tatysite was bearable, simply because tatysite was my place. But I love how people from tatysite like to go over to .us simply to laugh at how stupid the forum is and how much better tatysite is. That does NOTHING to make me want to come back. In fact, it makes me think tatysite is run by a bunch of petty, threatened assholes, who like to feel “better than” – like tatysite has a serious case of penis-envy and need for a feeling of superiority. I hate to break it to you, but you aren’t any better…you may have been (at least for me), at one point in time, and may have been able to maintain that status, but that was because tatysite used to be a mature forum. Does tatysite not realize that stooping to mockery isn’t mature? It’s the epitome of immaturity.

Not to mention it was run by wannabe mini-tyrants.

Of course this is all just my opinion. No offense meant to be taken. People asked why some fans left, and I felt the need to be honest.

**disclaimer** Anything I say in the post is not directed to ALL members. It is aimed at specific people or just the overall feel of the forum in general. There are always members that do not fit into the generalization I have. But that generalization or general feeling the forum gave me is what drove me away.

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 09:45
"Killirov" is messing with our minds again.
Why post only to erase your message again 30 seconds later? :spy:

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 09:49
Mossopp, sorry I'm on drugs and feel paranoid.
Really. :rolleyes:
I'm going to find it hard to take anything you say seriously from now on.

forre
13-12-2004, 09:55
I can only speak for myself, but I left because I no longer liked being here.
A clear case that the interest was switched to something else that you liked more. The forum served its purpose for you in its own time. You took what you needed and then left, the forum haven't changed that a lot - it's always been a place where opposite opinions meet and where the group has always been praised and criticised equally. Stay on any forum long enough and you'll notice the same tendency - nothing new in this world but sooner a matter of personal perception.

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 09:56
Mossopp, I don't blame you, and I am a fucking dumb cocksucker I know. :(
So why keep posting under the name that made you known as such.
Everyone was cool with taty954591blahblahwhatevernumbersitwas. Go back to using that name and being yourself. Noone wants you to leave the forum completely.

Bitty2002
13-12-2004, 10:02
forre - That actually isn't really the reason. My point was that my interests have pretty much remained the same and the forum changed. Before, my interests and those of the forum were in harmony. Now they are not. I still like Tatu the same as I did before. So I haven't switched my interests. Simply put(even though it is mopre complex, but...), Tatysite used to be a mix of opinions, of course, but it generally leaned towards the positive- most people were fans of Tatu in a more positive way. Now, the median of opinions has shifted to a more negative stance. I have remained on the positive part of the opinion spectrum, so I no longer felt at peace here.

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 10:09
I'm sorry you feel that way taty994945. Take care of yourself, ok. :rose:
No hard feelings.

luxxi
13-12-2004, 10:15
WTF? :ithink: :spy:

:newyear:

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 10:16
WTF? :ithink: :spy:
It's a long story.

forre
13-12-2004, 10:29
Bitty2002, The grade of your need being on the forum changed. What I was trying to say is that the forum can hardly be blamed for that people leave. Even if you like the group as it was or as it is - there's nothing to discuss right now because the group has been inactive for some time and there's nothing new to discuss. We'll see how it will be when the group releases their second album if they ever will. For me - the interest in group just remained the same, a sort of sport - where it will all finish and how the forum can be developed in accordance with new conditions.

teeny
13-12-2004, 10:45
it does remind me that this place used to be different... maybe i was different too....yeah, so even though things are worse at the moment it did use to be better at least.

Bitty2002
13-12-2004, 11:12
forre - I think we're misconnecting here. I understand what you are saying, and I agree that that is probably the reason for a lot of people's inactivity on the forum. However, that is not my reason. If it were the degree of my need to be on the forum that changed, I would not have moved to tatu*us. I moved there because my need remained the same and I did not find it being fulfilled here.

But you are right, a forum is just a sort of metaphysical entity dependent on its members. So I cannot blame the forum and certainly not every member, that would be ludicrous. But I do attribute the negativity to certain members and that, for what ever reason, this meeting ground is one in which negativity is bred and cultivated. I can keep asking why and take it back to Tatu's revelation of supposed fakeness or their inactivity, because I believe that is what initially caused the shift in atmosphere here. However, I cannot blame those events completely, because beyond this particular forum, I have not continued to experience this degree of negativity (there is negativity everywhere, just not to the extent it is here) months after the initial shock and bitterness. I do not want to discredit anyone's feelings- because I know a lot of people were very upset, and they can be. But I simply do not choose to feel that way and therefore do not feel comfortable around that atmosphere. My point was that, while it is understandable that fans all over were upset by anatomy, inactivity, cancellations, the works, some places have moved away from the negativity, while it persists on this forum. Because of that, I left. I was attributing my decision to move away from the forum on a series of factors, the main one being the change in atmosphere here...which in my opinion is undeniable.

I am not asking the forum to change. Sure I miss the way it was. Currently, I'm just happier elsewhere.

forre
13-12-2004, 11:22
Bitty2002, take a ride on here whenever the mood strikes you. That's all I can add. Good to see you here from time to time! :)

Bitty2002
13-12-2004, 11:31
forre - I intend to. I mean, I will post occassionally on upbeat threads. I have not written this place off or anything. Like I said, I still hang around. I just feel more like observing a community rather than being a part of one...if that makes any sense. Thanks though.

taty994945
13-12-2004, 11:40
I wish to say that I will resume posting as taty994945. I want to be a part of this forum again. Kirillov is dead.

QueenBee
13-12-2004, 11:50
Wow - this thread makes me wonder why I'm still here when half the people think it sucks! :lol:
Maybe I'm just living in my (and Denial's) own little world... :spy:

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 12:27
Wow - this thread makes me wonder why I'm still here when half the people think it sucks! :lol:
It makes me wonder why I'm still here when most people's reason for leaving is that the overall mood is just too negative. I'm the one who creates about 90% of the negativity around here. I feel guilty that so many people have left because of it. :(

teeny
13-12-2004, 13:14
I'm the one who creates about 90% of the negativity around here.wrong negativity, mossopp. At least from my point of view.

QueenBee
13-12-2004, 13:31
Mossopp, I don't think it's your fault at all. Actually, I was thinking, thanks to some people (you included) the forum isn't completely messed up yet. I admit it has changed, but it's probably because there are so many people leaving. I still love it, though. And I plan on never leaving. :kwink:

It's easy to blame others for negativity on the forum, but I think we are all a part of it. People and things just change, so it's only natural that it's not the same. I know I love all the people here incredibly but people have more important things to do. :(

Kate
13-12-2004, 13:34
And I plan on never leaving. Neither do I. :D

luxxi
13-12-2004, 15:58
I wish to say that I will resume posting as taty994945. I want to be a part of this forum again. Kirillov is dead.

Till next time you forget to take your meds and schitzophrenia kicks in again. :rolleyes:

:newyear:

Unplugged
13-12-2004, 17:42
I wish to say that I will resume posting as taty994945. I want to be a part of this forum again. Kirillov is dead.
Yessssss, great! :cool: :10x:

spyretto
13-12-2004, 18:11
I agree with the ppl who say it's the tatu factor that made people lose interest in the forum. The topics have been consistent all the while but back then it was more interesting to debate whether Tatu were lesbians and stuff like that. Now we can't have this discussion going and lets be honest, the band itself is rather stale than fresh now, not to mention their songs.

The forum is still a busy one, considering. I checked back today after a day and there were more than 170 posts. There used to be 300 and 400 before but that is another matter.
Now that we all have established that the girls of tatu are really uninspiring and uninspired typical Russian teenagers -with all the characteristics that go with it - I can't see how people can maintain that positive attitude. In my opinion it wasn't the fact that Tatu were "fake" in the first place, we knew that more or less. it's how they decided to come out in the open about it, without respect to their fans. There's no way for those fans - who excessively loved tatu for what they appeared to be back then - to be lured into another tatu phantasmagoria...

So the forum is destined to continue its waning course, even if the singers make their long awaited comeback and even if it's any good or interesting. The majority of those dedicated fans will never come back.

Unplugged
13-12-2004, 18:28
In my opinion it wasn't the fact that Tatu were "fake" in the first place, we knew that more or less. it's how they decided to come out in the open about it, without respect to their fans.
I agree :yes:

There's no way for those fans - who excessively loved tatu for what they appeared to be back then - to be lured into another tatu phantasmagoria...
Except the gullable fanatic ones at tatu.us :rolleyes: :laugh:

Yeah, well, I'm here for the people whom I like. It's like going to this café you know... there might not be much going on, but you still go there cause you know the people and like the atmosphere. Same thing :D Currently I must say I'm happy with the members we have here. I'd only be happier if tatynumbers would post more and TvA would come back, which is highly unlikely. I'd rather be in a place with few good interesting people than many uninteresting people.

QueenBee
13-12-2004, 19:32
Yep, yep.... yep.

But it doesn't feel that great either when people leave 'cause Tatu aren't interesting, when you thought they actually liked you. :p

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 20:38
How many times has this thread's name been changed now?
That's why I don't post here anymore - thread name's change too many times. It's just confusing.

haku
13-12-2004, 21:00
How many times has this thread's name been changed now?
That's why I don't post here anymore - thread name's change too many times. It's just confusing.
Twice.

Thread created on 07 december as "Wanted Dead Or Alive - What happened to Kirillov, Guesshoo and Taty994945?"

Title changed on 10 december to "Missing members thread", because people went off topic big time by talking about much more people than the three originally mentioned (who turned out to be only two).

Title expanded on 13 december to "Missing members and why they left - discussion", because sunwalk made a post requiring to start a discussion on the reasons why people had left the forum.

What do you prefer me to do? Stop people from going off topic, or expand the topic to fit the actual content of the thread?

nath
13-12-2004, 21:01
okay....i'm happy to have begun my previous post 'cause i've felt in the answers of lux, cool, bitty..a lot of similar thought s of mine...so i feel a little more secure with myself in the fact i didn't become suddendly crazy and build absolutely faulse world in my head without any reasons...

For exemple staringelf , this sentence..I agree :yes:
Except the gullable fanatic ones at tatu.us :rolleyes: :laugh:
...why?...why such mockeries for tatu.us?...you don't like tatu.us ...it's your right but why such nasty side?...as if all the people of tatu.us were so stupid...don't they have right to have another kind of relation towards tatu ?....isn't it possible to let them live their "passion" in peace in another way, in another site?...

I appreciate criticizm but the problem is that i have the feeling that some people make a confusion between : being critical and becoming nasty...
feel as a kind of fashion, contagion : the most you are nasty = the most you have personnality..

I agree :yes:
I'd rather be in a place with few good interesting people than many uninteresting people.
I agree...really think there are a lot of interesting people here...truly think it...but even if a lot of members here don't see a changement, i still feel that the Mentality's changed...some people are the same, with their intelligence, their critical eye...but may be they 've chosen to exploit them ...may be not in the best way...in the best direction...

I don't say that only about tatu...(even if i was really shocked by the fake tatu pics...not because i'm a puribond , puritan person...not at all...but if you had a girlfriend, a boyfriend or even a person that you like as your mother or sister , would you like to see them in a such "positions"?....if you had some day to meet tatu...would you have the courage to give to them the pics and to tell them : "I've created these pics?"...as if the web was a protection for every action...would you do the same in "real life" with no "virtual people" and with the same feeling of "no guilt at all"?...)

...i say that too for little things, details as nasty comments about "fat people" for exemple...don't you sometimes think that may be there are some " a little round" members here...who've found a kind of refuge on tatysite, warmness , friendship...and who could be so, so hurt by such comments , even if they reply nothing?...

That's such little things which make me sad...and give me a moral problem....i absolutely dislike to write such posts...it isn't pleasant, you know, really.....my goal isn't to say : it's bad as you act...not at all (if not i would leave and would say nothing cause i won't have anymore interest in such behaviours)..but more...do you realize the consequences of some of your sentences for some other people? ...
I hate to write such posts but I do ...if i'd stay mute, just keeping my sad thoughts for me , i would feel as if i would accept and even agree such behaviour of free nastiness...
The worse is that i'm sure this nastiness isn't even counscious...at least, I hope so.

PS: my main purpose in the posts of this thread never was a free criticism but a kind of collective reflection about the atmosphere of the forum...

Bitty2002
13-12-2004, 21:02
Except the gullable fanatic ones at tatu.us

That's exactly what I am talking about. Maybe there are some gullible fans there, but that is because that forum is still somehow attracting new members and they know little about what has transpired and little about Tatu. You can't say you knew everything back in the beginning, so that isn't fair. Unless of course you are talking about some of the more seasoned fans, like myself, who don't believe with all certainty as you do and therefore are dumbasses. In that case, you have only shown exactly why fans like myself hate being around people like you and have left this forum. I think some of you take every opportunity you can to make stupid pot-shots at another forum. Why is it a competition? I never saw it as such. Many members are on both forums. It wasn't until this stupid feud (mainly by this side, because most .us people don't really seem to care or see it as a competition.) that people felt the need to pick sides. What is the point? Does it make you feel better or bigger or cooler? It's like picking on the fat kid, what do you get out of it? They aren't doing anything to you. It only makes you look like a puny, petty jackass that needs to feel superior because they actually feel inferior.


spyretto - I have to agree with you on that. I think that played a big part. It was fun to debate back then about all sorts of things. And personally I think different stuff can still be debated (not necessarily about their relationship even, just a lot of things in general) however, many fans feel like after feeling betrayed or jerked around so much, what's the point in debating. So I think that is responsible for the decline in the quality of thread topics. This has occurred on most tatu forums. But even so, the atmosphere here is more negative than elsewhere.

But I will say that I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty. Or put down the forum even. I just PERSONALLY do not like how its changed. I think a lot of fans have changed and this forum has changed with them, so it is a perfect place for them. There's no reason to feel ashamed for enjoying being here. I just didn't change, thus don't enjoy it, make sense?

sunwalk - Thank you, you said what I also feel beautifully. And...what I think a lot of people feel but are too afraid to say. Either because they think it is considered cool on this forum to be nasty and therefore to go against that they are suddenly "uncool" or because they still have close friends here and do not want to be completely honest because they are afraid to upset those friends. I have no alliances here and therefore have no issues with being completely honest. You on the other hand, do still frequent this forum and yet had the courage to be honest. For that I applaud you.

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 21:12
What do you prefer me to do? Stop people from going off topic, or expand the topic to fit the actual content of the thread?
Dude, I was kidding!
Change the thread titles as much as you want. It makes no difference to me.

luxxi
13-12-2004, 21:22
What do you prefer me to do? Stop people from going off topic, or expand the topic to fit the actual content of the thread?

Leave things as they are. Things went a bit OT. So what? It's not as if they got OT big way. And even if they went do you have a psychological urge to keep things as tidy as possible with as few things sticking over the edges and being able to pack them into little boxes? Sheeeeesh....... :rolleyes:

Besides you forgot to add "and people with more than one account" in title. We are talking about such people right? :rolleyes:

:newyear:

Unplugged
13-12-2004, 21:48
...as if all the people of tatu.us were so stupid...don't they have right to have another kind of relation towards tatu ?....isn't it possible to let them live their "passion" in peace in another way, in another site?...
Sure it's possible, and I hope they are happy people. Nonetheless, I think most of them are abnormally gullable and obsessed in an unhealthy way, and I don't think that makes me "nasty" or any other words you may call me. If I don't like something, some people or some attitudes, I say it. If in my opinion certain people are gullable, why shouldn't I say it? Just like I won't blame anyone who crictizes me, anywhere... Who cares?! It's just an opinion. Anyway, this is a discussion about the members who we miss, do not start the forum wars again. Whenever I think I should mention something I don't like, I will mention, be it some website, a person, an object, whatever. I have the right to do so, and so does everybody else. You don't see me complaining when people here say they like that website, or do you? No.

crni
13-12-2004, 22:08
sunwalk, i totally agree with everything you said... you've put it very well ;)

i'd just like to add my opinion... it's true that the atmosphere here has changed...towards negative side, but still. that's why we have discussions, where people can express their (honest) opinions on various subjects...
everyone CAME here because of one same reason and that is tATu, and stayed because of the group but also for the other good people they met here... things changed, and people left :( the whole concept of anatomy is very brutal but that's how it is, and we have to deal with it.
personally, i don't think there's currently anything about tATu worth discussing... mostly some jibberish :( yet i've stayed here and have hope that there will be some new material... in the meantime i keep posting on some other parts of the forum, cause i don't want to lose the connection with this forum, and i believe tATu+members=tatysite

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 22:21
Besides you forgot to add "and people with more than one account" in title. We are talking about such people right? :rolleyes:
Exactly.
I still don't understand how someone was able to get away with posting under multiple user-names. Am I the only one who finds that genuinely creepy?

Unplugged
13-12-2004, 22:36
the atmosphere here has changed...towards negative side
Could you explain better? What exactly do you mean with a "negative side"?

See, if I say the only good things happening with tATu in 2004 (as in, propelling their career forward) was leaving Shapovalov and Lena starting to record some demos for the new album, I'm being negative? :dknow: If so, could somebody please state what other positive things have happened with them - in terms of a music career, that is. Go ahead then, I'm curious ;)

EeZeReal
13-12-2004, 22:38
Tell him I wish him all the best and it's about time he got his lazy arse off the sofa! :D

I concur...and atleast I'm out of the perpetual rut now :rolleyes:

TvA would come back, which is highly unlikely.

Why would you make that assumption?

nath
13-12-2004, 22:38
If I don't like something, some people or some attitudes, I say it. If in my opinion certain people are gullable, why shouldn't I say it? ..... It's just an opinion.... Whenever I think I should mention something I don't like, I will mention, be it some website, a person, an object, whatever. I have the right to do so, and so does everybody else.
Of course,you have the right... :)


Anyway, this is a discussion about the members who we miss, do not start the forum wars again.
If you could think I want to start a "forum(s)(latin word) war" or "a war to this forum", you absolutely don't know me.
I was just trying to have a sane and frank discussion about the atmosphere of this forum, for this forum.
Think discussing kindly without hidding eyes is good sometimes.
But if this discussion is absolutely "off topic" or if people prefer escape from this discussion, it's absolutely not a problem for me: I've said what I have to say.

Just want to add a "Thanks" to all the ones who had the courage to express their opinion about this subject (even if they thought the opposite of my opinion) and to send a tender :) to the ones who were "afraid" to express their opinion(as Bitty explained with such intelligence):rose:

EDIT:I like you too, Miguel...that's why I was frank with you . Truth. ;)

Unplugged
13-12-2004, 22:46
But if this discussion is absolutely "off topic" or if people prefer escape from this discussion, it's absolutely not a problem for me: I've said what I have to say
Nathalie, it is off-topic (at least for now, lol, the thread is not called "Missing members and why they left and why other people like or dislike other forums), I don't wanna escape anything, I've just had enough of this discussion. I already explained my point of view sooooo many times in sooo many threads, I've even sent it to you in a PM explaining my reasons and apologizing for having disturbed you in any way, because I like you. The people here know what I think, what I like, people know me. I also know what you like here, and it is not always what I like, but so what? The difference is, you are somewhat 'politically correct' here, while I am not. But that's just me, and I'm myself everywhere, personally, on the phone or on the internet - if I feel strongly about things I don't like, I express myself in a strong, obvious, honest way, without any attempts to make it sound better just so that I can please everyone. If I think "That's stupid" I say "That's stupid", while some people think "That's stupid" but then only say "Well, perhaps it's a little unappropriate" just so they can please everyone or not cause discussion. It's not my purpose in life to please everyone, and it's not my purpose to cause a discussion when I make the comments I make either. But sorry once again if I have bothered you, because I like you :rose:

Why would you make that assumption?
Heeeeeyyyyy :D :10x:

Well, because that's what everybody said, including Rachel :gigi: I thought nothing kept you here anymore. But if I'm wrong, then I'm glad :coctail:

teeny
13-12-2004, 22:48
wb, Phil :kwink:
About time you showed up :gigi:

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 22:50
I don't understand why certain members are being villified because they no longer feel any affinity with tATu. IMO it's perfectly understandable that a lot of people don't want anything to do with the band anymore (hell, is "band" even an accurate description of them these days?!).
Spyretto said that it wasn't the fact that tATu lied about their "relationship" that was insulting to the fans, it was the way they chose to admit this lie - in a sensationalist "documentary" that was really nothing more than 58 minutes of crappy, badly edited camcorder footage.
Sorry, but I spent a hell of a lot of money, invested a hell of a lot of time and ruined my pefect 'credible rock/metal fan' image by defending Julia and Lena up untill the docu was released. They owed me more than some shitty, low-quality home video that wasn't even made readily available to anyone outside of Russia!

I don't want to get into another argument about 'Anatomy'. The original arguements about it were bad enough - so bad in fact that I almost left here for good. I have no desire to drag that up again.
My point is that it has long been established that there are now 2 types of people here - those that are still tATu fans and those that are purely here for the camaraderie. I see no good reason why these opposing groups need fight and bicker with one another. Why make this place even more "negative"? :rolleyes:

EeZeReal
13-12-2004, 23:03
Thankies Tina and Mig :p

I was just doing the rounds on all the old forums I'm on, and thought I'd make an appearance here ;)

Mossopp
13-12-2004, 23:05
It's definately good to hear from you again, Philbert! :done:

crni
13-12-2004, 23:13
leaving Shapovalov and Lena starting to record some demos for the new album, I'm being negative?
no, that's not it. it's just how i feel about general feelings about tATu. i'm not directing anything towards you or anyone else, that's just my current state of mind... i cannot explain it better...

btw... greetingz, phil :flag:

la aurora
13-12-2004, 23:14
People leave because the place becomes less interesting. Place becomes less interesting because many good people leave. It's some kind of circle and it's hard to say what was the first - an egg or a chicken.

Reasons are hard to find, still one is obvious - The Anatomy of TATU that was some kind of borderline between the past and the present of tatysite. Things were changing slowly even before it. TATU's inactivity, screwed up concerts - this all was making tatysite less and less of fan site. Still I don't think anyone will argue if I say that Anatomy was some point where the proccess stopped and something exploided. After that day there was no way back anymore. Somewhere inside everyone knew already, we had many articles and other sources telling the 'truth' we were laughing at, the one eveyone believed only after Anatomy came out. I don't know what was so special about it. Guess Mansky is just some damn good documentarist if he managed to unfluence lives and minds of so many people at once. He did the job greater than all tabloids together. He just repeated things that were already said and still he was the one who made ppl believe him more than TATU-girls themselves. I mean, c'mon didn't they say they did have bfs before the documentrary?

Mmm back to topic. After this documentary tatysite changed. I do see why some fans who really loved TATU got frustrated and left the place forever. But if u look back, u can notice that there were few of those who can call it 'their case'. If u make a list of people that used to be active members of tatysite (posting long thought-out threads), u'll probably see most of those hadn't come through frustration after Anatomy. They were either quite calm about the group from the beginning (I mean that they weren't bothered by 'are they or aren't they' question that much and were attracted by music and the great team that used to hang out at this forum) or they took the news calmly and just concentrated on other good things about the band. I guess the question is why THOSE people left the forum fully or particulary. General threads posters gone... do u really think the reason is TATU?

I guess one has to leave the forum for a while to see how drastically things changed here. It's hard to notice when u keep being the part of it and change urself along with whole forum changing. Nathalie is some kind of exception. May be her being an adult with sensitive soul is the reason. I don't know. U got more than one post from people who sees this forum from outside and I wonder why the idea of at least considering their opinion being right didn't hit u.

I won't talk about my reasons to leave this place for a while coz those were mostly personal. Still I can share what I saw when came back. Many people gone, yeah it does hurt. But what matters much more is that ones that stayed changed. Place just slowly turning into something like any other forum around. There used to be many people, different people, sharing and prooving their opinions, arguing, feeling hurt.. everything. Now I still see familar nicks but I can't see same people behind them. I can't even differ one from another often before I check the nick one more time. May be it's the forum of one's dream now. Everyone agreed that TATU suck, life is unfair and all we can do is sit and laugh making cruel remarks. Bitterness and dissability to feel filled the the place. But hey, nobody is hurt at least. All people that dared to have different opinion were called idiots, were laughed at and left the place. tatysite is in peace. And I remember the times where we had all those discussions about if tatu-bashers should be tolerated and their opinion respected. Tolerance gone and all who saved any love for the band too. And u know what, I don't see those people coming back even if TATU suddenly releases 5 albums they were recording all this time one day lol Forum community is broken.

Now the main way to entertain urself is to bash that other fomum. Looks ugly to be frank. I do understand admins of the site doing it. It's their job and touches their interests. I do understand people who's materials were 'stolen' (even if I don't get why something u did and give for free anyway should be shared only with some group of people and other people having same interest can't use it. There was a time I was writing long detailed reports on Podnebesnaya show and I was actually happy to see that those were useful for people on more forums than 1) but I really don't see why whould people be so cruel and rude to guys they were used sharing same forum space with. I don't see why someone who wasn't writing news, making caps or something would attack people they were that once were bringing more ideas to the forum just because they stopped enjoying it here. I mean they come here and try talking with u normally and all u can say back is 'ewwwww, go back to that idiots forum and leave us alone'. Generalizing much eh? It's just childish. How can u, people that used to base their opinions on the fact that nothing is what it seems, that even one person can act differenly in different situations and must be judged for each single action separately (not even talking about stupidness of attempts to judge some group of people as a whole) can jump on such conclusions now?

I could write twice bigger topic to be frank, but I doubt even this one will be read. So I stop and u can go throw rocks at me lol

P.S. I'm not another tatu*uknowwhat forumer. I'm regestered there but can't remeber last time I checked the place. I'm tatysite kid and I always felt here at home. Tatysite gave me everything: confidence, some skills, real frienship and love. I'm also in no way trying to start another forum war here. I just believe that this actually has to do with old good people leaving the place. May be among those 'idiots' some smart people found their space to have thought-out talks without being laughed at and having to fight all those stereotypes that are so in fasion here at the moment. Ones who didn't, left tatu-space forever.

P.S1. I'm not a tatysite basher and no way I was talking about the forum as a whole. There are many people here who I wasn't responding to. Still there are more than enough that will find any similarities in what I said and what they see here

~~~Peace~~~

EeZeReal
13-12-2004, 23:23
Cheers Lorna and Petar...nice to see the old gang again LOL ;) :cool:

forre
14-12-2004, 00:43
People come here for something - they find what they need and leave with the time. All people came here because of Tatu and nothing else. After some people stayed and some left. The majority of the hard-core fans were gay, and this place became less gayish, if I may say so. You come - take - give - leave. Some of the visitors are still looking for a sort of recognition, and for some it became an every day habit to check the place. Friends, friends? There's msn, e-mail, aol, etc. for such things. Everything changes in this life, so forums do, there's nothing static. We'll all leave this place some day for different reasons and it will have very little to do with the charachter of the community in here as the community will change too. As for tatu.us - people come and leave that forum too and sooner or later it will see the end of its days. Even good things come to an end.

la aurora
14-12-2004, 00:58
forre, those were few general things hard to argue with.

The only thing we have garanteed is that we die in the end..

The only thing we have for sure that nothing is for sure...

and so on...

The only thing I'd argue with is msn, e-mail, aol, etc one. Forum is a bit different form of communication. Messengers work with short messages, quite hard to express ur opinion in the right way there. There are e-mails of course that allow to share more or less thought-out messages but these are 1 on 1 discussions while forum allows to have some kind of group talk, so everyone can read opinion of everyone and share his own.

And i didn't get gay thingie.. I mean what does it have to do with all this? Yeah some gay people left as well as some straight ones. Still many gay forumers stayed here and I don't understand why is it worth mentioning at all.

forre
14-12-2004, 01:06
The only thing I'd argue with is msn, e-mail, aol, etc one. Forum is a bit different form of communication. Messengers work with short messages, quite hard to express ur opinion in the right way there. There are e-mails of course that allow to share more or less thought-out messages but these are 1 on 1 discussions while forum allows to have some kind of group talk, so everyone can read opinion of everyone and share his own.

And i didn't get gay thingie.. I mean what does it have to do with all this? Yeah some gay people left as well as some straight ones. Still many gay forumers stayed here and I don't understand why is it worth mentioning at all.

When people find frineds they continue communication through msn, aol, etc:s. That's what I meant. Nothing to argue with actually. Group talks are not about friends - they are about expressing your own opinion and the possibility to let the steam out.

We had a lot more gay related threads before than now. If we wanted to breed such threads, we'd attract this part of the community with a great success but since this place became less gayish, gay people don't find themselves being a part of the community they need. That's what I was trying to say.

And yes, we all will die some day, virtually we'll do that sooner. That's the nature of any virtual community.

Bitty2002
14-12-2004, 01:16
Could you explain better? What exactly do you mean with a "negative side"?

See, if I say the only good things happening with tATu in 2004 (as in, propelling their career forward) was leaving Shapovalov and Lena starting to record some demos for the new album, I'm being negative? If so, could somebody please state what other positive things have happened with them - in terms of a music career, that is. Go ahead then, I'm curious


That is not what I meant by negative. I meant the attitude of members rubs me the wrong way. It is not enjoyable for me to be around people who are bitter, upset, made back-handed compliments, talks as if they are better than other people, speak as if they know the truth when they can't and then make other people feel like they are gullible idiots for thinking otherwise or even thinking slightly more moderately (it isn‘t that I love Tatu blindly or I think they were lovers all along and still are with all my feeble heart, thank you, so stop exaggerating people like me’s views Just because you see in black and white extremism, doesn‘t mean other people do). I also don't enjoy talking to people who bully other members, who say caustic comments and say, what- it's just how I feel, I'm an honest person (well, that's fine, but I don't want to be anywhere near people like you). I can't stand the snide comments about members, Tatu, other countries, other cultures, etc. I hate the pot shots. I hate the tyranny of banning members for disagreeing or for...well, whatever, I never did get a good explanation for that. I hate that you can't speak your mind without the feel of falling out of the silly little clique that has formed here, where people who think differently are mocked and scoffed at (I had enough of that in high school- or actually more like middle school).

Basically, to be blunt, I couldn't stand Kate back in the day, but she was bearable because her negativity (and I am not just talking about her negativity towards Tatu, but her negativity towards life, people in general- her arrogance, her caustic comments, etc.) was buffered by a huge group of positive people that I enjoyed discussing things with (even people who disagreed with me, mind you). Now, most of those people are gone or have changed to be more like Kate. Now there are a bunch of rude as hell comments mimicking Kate's old negativity. The few positive members who remain not longer buffer that negativity. They are drowning in it. This forum is drowning in it. I would rather not drown in it.

Even more bluntly, it is members like you that make me not want to be here. You said you liked people telling you how it is, well that's how it is. But that's fine. You aren't forcing me to stay and you do not need to change. But I can leave or avoid people like you and that is what I choose to do.



I don't understand why certain members are being villified because they no longer feel any affinity with tATu.

That is not why I am ragging on people. People are welcome to dislike tatu. It is that those people that dislike tatu, make people who like tatu feel like gullible idiots. Just read above, I've said all I can say there. But I do want to make it clear that I am not upset because people have a different opinion than I do. That is not the case. It is for how immature people are acting.

forre
14-12-2004, 01:29
Bitty2002, I can't believe you "left" because of Kate? :eek:

la aurora
14-12-2004, 01:31
There's such thing as group talks of friends. I was away from this forum for a while and I kept talking to friends on MSN, still it feels a bit differently. I don't think that now when someone from the gang (i mean a group of ppl who posts frequently and does have friends here) makes a post, he spends days and nights waiting for some ImNewMember1234599 to reply his post. He's more interested in getting a couple of funny friendly comments from that same group of people. So yes, there are people for whom friends aspect is not any less important that tatu one here.

Yes, we had gay related threads, alcohol related threads, other problems related threads. Guess after they gone we lost all gays, alcoholics and ppl having any problems at all.. nah, i don't think so. As far as this place is free from prejudices, gay people feel here as comfortable as straight ones. It doesn't really matter. This place I'd still call safe for any nationality, religion or sexual orientation.. thanks god i don't believe in :D
I know what u mean tho and can't dissagree that some people enjoyed this place as gay one only. Still people who came here only for that aren't the ones we are talking about in this thread.

p.S. I'm no way arguing just 4.30 am is my relaxed talkative hour, sorry :)

Unplugged
14-12-2004, 01:33
I still listen to tATu, and I think only katbeidar never even considers listening to tATu and really thinks that they suck big time :p But anyway, I still like the music, but me and mostly everyone here got fed up with all their lies (although we still have hope for them, me included) - they made so many false statements about how they were recording an album, how everything was fine, how they didn't know why their concerts got cancelled in so many countries, not to speak of the "yes we are lesbians, no we're not"-thing, which got so ridiculous at some point, like it was basicly "no, we're not lesbians, but our producer thinks it's wise to keep on winking at the fans to sell records" - some people didn't wanna see that, some people didn't care, some cared and got sick of that and now only care about the music that they listen / listened to and the music they will listen from tATu in the future.

The ones who still love tATu all the time, even after them lying to their fans constantly (or maybe they didn't lie, "they were confused", "they were used", "they didn't know what they got themselves into", etc), left this place and went to other sites to find people with a similar perspective. I and most of us stayed here out of a little bit for curiosity about the future of tATu, since it was such an interesting project, and also -mainly- because we developped bonds here and have fun here. I speak to several TatySite.net forum members on MSN and we got really close. And we have about the same right to stay here because there are people here we respect and who respect us and with whom we can talk without taking everything seriously and just hang out and chill, just like the others have their right to go to other sites to keep worshiping tATu blindly and make up theories and discuss what there is and what there is not to discuss based on little to no credibility - if they're fine like that, why not?

Yet I will not change my mind and stop saying I think *most* of them are gullable and overly fanatic, just like most of them won't stop saying we are.. "negative" :laugh: But what is the point of discussing this, may I ask? People are different, people make choices, and it is natural to great groups of people who share similar views, and if somebody doesn't like those choices, they can either get over it and act normally or go to some other place to complain about how A or B don't worship tATu blindly like they were supposed to (?) or discuss what has been discussed a million times, because that's the right thing to do, that's the positive spirit!

-- I think it's somewhat presumptuous to think there's some big plan to brainwash people's minds here into not caring about tATu anymore, such a conspiracy that the members don't have an identity anymore, all say the same things, and some are even scared to give a different opinion :lol: I'm sorry, but whoever says that is on CRACK. teeny still has her opinions (who aren't always the same as mine, and THANK GOD for diversity, as long as opinions aren't based on fundamentalisms!..), Queenie still has her own opinions, everybody has their own opinions and their own individuality, and it's absurd for someone to just "drop by" one day and say the opposite.

People grow up and stop caring about things for which they have once cared about, because they reach a point of saturation. Most people who are here reached that point of saturation regarding the russian band, and stay here because they have developped a good atmosphere of sharing tastes and opinions on many issues, helping each other on the personal daily threads, discussing politics, science, religion, other sorts of music, etc. The members who have not reached that point of saturation, have departed and will continue to comment and overanalyze everything tATu do, say or not do or say, until they eventually reach that same point of saturation. It's natural. Now, if I think somebody is an idiot for still believing tATu have something going on other than friendship? Yes. If I think somebody who still overanalyzes the whole gossip surrounding tATu is wasting their time? Yes, most likely. If I think somebody who obsesses with the members of the group to an extent of speaking out directly to them in their messages, demanding them for take this or that attitude regarding their personal lives, throw virtual baby showers for Yulia's baby, etc? Yes I do. And I will never say that I don't.
Nonetheless, other people here prefer not to say that even if they think it is so, and other people simply do not agree with me and have expressed it and shall express it further if they have that strong belief.

Nobody here lacks of individuality, nobody here thinks for other people's heads, nobody here has problems with expressing themselves unless they fabricate those problems innerly. teeny for example disagrees with me and other members on a lot of stuff here, but she can go appart from that and just hang out with us and chill, just like we can forget our differences of opinions and hang out with her with no problems as well. :D And she can bash me right now and call me a butthead and I'll still be her friend -- Because the thing is, both and I her know what this is: JUST a forum. There's more to life, things that really matter, so why take things too seriously and make a huge drama out of every comment? :p

This forum is not an overly-dramatic gathering of obsessed tATu fans, it's a place where people who have / had some sort of connection with the band just hang out and don't take things or themselves too seriously. And nobody who just drops by once in a while, and thinks it should be some other way, will change that.

I rest my case :10x:

forre
14-12-2004, 01:43
sunny poison, Tatau community attracted lots of gay people in the first place and that's what I meant. Don't try to twist the things with alcohol and chewing gums and what ever it could be about.

As for the friendly comments - it's not about friends but waiting for the reaction and thus looking for some kind of appreciation. Majority of things in this world begin and end up with ourselves only. It's you and your projection towards the rest of the world. The community doesn't need to adopt itself to the need of every single person and it never will. Every community has its own borders and frames.

Then, if you discuss religion here - you'll bump on different religious issues and there all universal understanding ends, likewise speaking about wars and diverse sensitive issues. Where to draw the line?

Bitty2002
14-12-2004, 01:53
forre - I didn't leave because of Kate, lol. I'm not that simple. I stayed here for years with Kate being here, lol. She is just the epitome of Kateness. What I was trying to say was that, Kate's unique attitude had spread like a disease here. And I will reiterate that I do not think that all members are like that. But enough are to make it no longer enjoyable.

I always valued this place for its discussion and debating. I have always loved a good debate. But I also live by rules of debate. It is impossible to debate or discuss with someone who turns away and plug there ears, humming, and saying I can think whatever I want, I'm entitled to it!! Well, I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I would like a mature debate. All that maturity dissipated. It's like arguing with children...I no longer see the point. They are going to keep poking Jonnie no matter how many times I tell them that isn't nice. Even doing this is futile, but I guess part of me can't shut up because I do wish things were different.


staringelf - I cannot even begin to reply to that long post. There are way too many things packed in there that show how completely and totally impossible it is to communicate myself to you. The problem is that I am a moderate person. I think in shades of grey. I do not live in the extremes you seem to. THe problem is that because you think in black and white- for example, because I still like Tatu or defend them, I must be blindly devoted or fanatical or delusional or just plain stupid. You try to pigeon hole me into this view of what you think the remaining pro-tatu people are. I am not, and therefore nothing I say matters, because I can say something moderate and you will shove it into your preconcieved notion. I could go point by point, refuting and debating all you just said, but I have no desire to, because it's like beating a dead horse.

I said my reason and people will warp it into whatever they want and whatever suits them. I'm gonna go watch some tv.

forre
14-12-2004, 02:02
I always valued this place for its discussion and debating. I have always loved a good debate. But I also live by rules of debate. It is impossible to debate or discuss with someone who turns away and plug there ears, humming, and saying I can think whatever I want, I'm entitled to it!! Well, I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I would like a mature debate. All that maturity dissipated. It's like arguing with children...I no longer see the point. They are going to keep poking Jonnie no matter how many times I tell them that isn't nice. Even doing this is futile, but I guess part of me can't shut up because I do wish things were different.
The debates are always welcome here. This little essay of yours above is about one person only. Maturity? All right, if you see a blunt remark you are welcome to ask the person to explain why he/she thinks so. That's about maturity too. It's always very easy to point the finger than to contribute with something. Then, if you are among people with different backgrounds, different ways of speaking, different ages and nationalities - I think you should expect some sort of confrontation from time to time. Why not to try to learn how to deal with it?

I said my reason and people will warp it into whatever they want and whatever suits them. I'm gonna go watch some tv.
That's exactly what you were complaining about a little earlier when speaking about ignorance on this forum. I could call it an ignorance from your side too if I wanted to but I won't.

It looks like many things are depending on us only.

la aurora
14-12-2004, 02:09
forre, I told u they I do understand what u mean by talking about gay people on this site. I didn't argue that some of those just found their 'home' in the very beginning of this site. What I meant is that many gay members are still here at the moment. This forum didn't turn to something discriminative when it comes to this aspect.. yet. So people that were important part of this forum, used to post in threads concerning all matters possible, must have had different reasons to leave no matter of their sexuality. Those who were here JUST in hope to find people of same sexuality and were discussing only those matters could leave for the reason u mentioned but I don't think that no oh-so-straight members would mention them in this thread.

And I wasn't twisting things. Gay problems discussions were as important for some people as any other. That's what I meant. That's all.

As for friends.. look at post above yours. It belongs to staringelf and I guess he made it quite clear that yes, he has fun hanging out with people he calls friends here. I don't see the reason to continue this argument. Do u wanna say that all people are here only for TATU at the moment? I don't think so or the forum would be quite empty by now. It's the good way to communicate with friends or many would leave the forum and just read news from time to time from pure curiosity.

I wasn't speaking about religion here and I never had intention to draw any lines. All I said that there's no religeous discrimination here at least in extreme forms. Wasn't i right?

forre
14-12-2004, 02:16
sunny poison, Yeh, okay - virtual friends, not that he will miss teeny otherwise but having some chit-chat on here for the sake of fun. It has nothing to do with friendship.

*wiating for staringelf to claim that he will miss teeny*

Edit:
As for that Fake Tatu pictures thread - some of us opposed the idea and found it tasteless but since Igor and haku thought it was okay, so it remained but as you see it's not a very popular thread after all. If you prohibit such things, people start to scream that we have censorship and discrimination. :bum:

Unplugged
14-12-2004, 02:30
I am a moderate person. I think in shades of grey. I do not live in the extremes you seem to. THe problem is that because you think in black and white- for example, because I still like Tatu or defend them, I must be blindly devoted or fanatical or delusional or just plain stupid. You try to pigeon hold me into this view of what you think the remaining pro-tatu people are. I am not, and therefore nothing I say matters, because I can say something moderate and you will shove it into your preconcieved notion. I could go point by point, refuting and debating all you just said, but I have no desire to, because it's like beating a dead horse.
1. I don't know you, you don't know me
2. I never mentioned you before
3. I am not as extreme as you think, and I don't think of tATu fans as either / or, therefore I used the term "most of them" when I referred to the people who comment on that other forum (in my opinion), and not to everyone who is "pro-tATu" as you say - and what exactly is "pro-tATu"? I like the band's music, I wish them to be successful, yet I complain about their several lies they gave us and messed up management - does that make me anti-tATu? Nope. I am as "pro-" as you are. I just don't devote my time to their 'adventures' with passion anymore, I became skeptical about their future. Nonetheless, can't wait for the new albm and I wish them to be very successful, because I see in them something different from the mainstream euro/american pop that dominates the show biz. Just because I changed my posture, does not mean I am against them.
4. Personally, from your speech, I think you are more interested in tATu than most people here at this moment, but I don't think you're gullable and delusional and "plain stupid", like you said. I had never even said a word to you before right now :ithink: And no, I don't think that about what you, based obviously on what I've read from you, since I don't know you.
5. You just put words in my mouth, said how I am, what I will do, etc. If something has a pre-conceived notion of somebody here, then it's clearly you :) I hold nothing against you or anyone. I just don't like gullable, delusional, people who obsess too much about things and take everything very seriously. You're not gullable, delusional and whatnot, but you do seem to be taking this discussion pretty seriously. So, that would be the only one thing that I wouldn't enjoy about you. But I'm not picking on you or anyone. Just like when I say I don't like *most* of the sort of behaviour and posts and that other forum and explain why, I'm not picking on them, I'm just mentioning that. Just like everytime someone talks about Bush, I say the guy's an asshole etc. When people talk about tatu.us, or something reminds of the average sort of topics and kinds of discussions there (I've only been there a few times, but it was pretty clear lol), I say I think most of them represent gullable minds and fanaticism in their message. If you like the place and the people there, the least you could do is accept my opinion, not take it so seriously and be mad about it, lol. But whatever, it's your choice :p Just don't be so grumpy, girl, it's not worth it, you can't change people. I don't want to change you either, the only thing I would change *if* I wanted to would be for you to take yourself and others less serious here, since this is just a normal conversation, not a daytime soap opera. :D

la aurora
14-12-2004, 02:42
now staringelf :D

I think the one that u said was on CRACK is me :) as it was me who was talking about people loosing identity here and others afraid to express their opinion.

No matter how frustrating it is but me got only sume cold sugafree tea here :( And it keeps me in quite sober mind reminding me how shitty life can be if u got only that damn tea instead of other cool things u could have *sigh* whatever

U mixed everything together.. tatu*us, missing members, identity.. I'll try to make it clear.

1. I'm not the hurt tatu*us forumer who came here to defend my forum. I don't give a damn about that forum, honestly. I care only for this one and when I see ugly childish behavior coming out of here, it's no fun

2. I'm not blind tatu-fan who feels offended by tatu-bashing here. I'll tell u more - I never was. I didn't come here back there in December 2002 to find fellow tatu-fans. It was absolutely different reason for me - curiosity. I was interested in TATU as in project, russian one, that broke-through internationaly. I was interested in how people from 'there' see it and whole media mechanism. I ALWAYS knew girls had bfs as I kinda live in Moscow and some of my close friends know or knew some of those bfs personally (bfs were changing as u can guess). Being a student specialized in journalistics I wouldn't have a problem finding girls' phone numbers or adresses as too many ppl know it anyway. I never cared. Coz those weren't girls that were keeping my interest. It was project itself, media politics, concept and people I've met here, ppl i enjoyed helping with russian and it was also a good way to learn english for me. Yeah, I did like the songs of course or who would I mention them at all. Even I'd say the vid, I liked the vid.
Do u really believe I say this all because I have problems with people who doesn't believe girls are together?
I just knew it all the time and still always respected other peoples' feelings, opinions and believes. And I don't think you are cool coz u don't. Sometimes it's much better to keep something for urself. But it's a hard way, coz u care about being cool, so-well-informed and realistic, so who cares about what others think and feel, right?

3. It's not my first day here. I came to tatugirls.com when 20 people online were kind of record there, where KillaQueen was writing her books and so on. Kate was some good fan and providing her news made sure best people from there found themselves at tatysite soon. I wasn't posting here for few months wich doesn't mean I wasn't checking this forum. And when I say something, it's not just an impression of someone running buy. It's something I actually see. All is IMHO of course. I never claimed it being an absolute truth.

People did change here and as i said already it's hard to notice if u are a part of it urself. They were different. Some naive, some shy, some depressed. Now the only diversity of opinions is wether one prefers red or blue thongs. It's cool that u have so much fun and I don't have a problem with it at all. Whatever makes people happy can be. I just say what I see. Yes, it became much harder to differ one post from another when they are all filled with bitterness and humor (wich is often rude)

What I think is wrong is that diversity of opinions (even if it's about tatu only) is not welcomed here. If the person comes here and says he loves TATU and believes they are actually together, it's his opinion and it should be respected. But in fact u'd just eat such person alive. That's why they are all gone

well enough for now i guess.. u can add a list of other things i'm ON now =))))))

la aurora
14-12-2004, 02:54
forre, of course we were talking abut virtual friends. But same goes for MSN, AOL and e-mail as well as for this forum =) virtual relationships of all kinds. Some grow into something more (like it did happen on this forum) some just vanish

damn, I don't even se any point for arguing with u anymore lol And it's only 6 am I got 1 more hour to argue.. maybe staringelf helps me in this *keeps fingers crossed* :D

Bitty2002
14-12-2004, 03:08
That's exactly what you were complaining about a little earlier when speaking about ignorance on this forum. I could call it an ignorance from your side too if I wanted to but I won't.

It looks like many things are depending on us only.

First of all, I will be the first to admit I am not perfect. In this case I chose to leave for numerous reasons. I am sure some of those were rooted in personal reasons. My point was that the majority of the reason for my leaving was the change in atmosphere on the forum. And why do you say "us"? I never said you were one of the people I was talking about. And when I talk about the "forum" I mean the general atmosphere here, that does not mean you contributed to it. Maybe you feel protective of the forum, because it is your community, and I respect that. But I hope that you are not defending the above mentioned behavior. You can defend the forum without defending its negative aspects. It is not like I hate tatysite. I loved this place (I wish I could say love, but in current state, I don’t).

How was what I said ignorant? Can you explain why? (I wasn't saying that in a snide way, but sincerely.) I found what I said frustrated and realizing that I can keep on talking, but it typically gets no where, so why bother? It was more a nihilist, defeatist attitude than ignorance...or I thought so anyway...

ANd i wasn't just about one person. In that case it was directed mostly towards staringelf, but he is not the only member who has the qualities I listed above.

And believe me, I have always been very much the type to learn how to deal with people. THat is life. But I also have the right to frequently associate myself with people I know for a fact I do not mesh well with. I have dealt with it by learning that myself and some members are very different people that time and again I attempted to find common ground with and never could.

But because you feel it is ignorant I will try not to be lazy and go through and hit each point of staringelf's post...

but me and mostly everyone here got fed up with all their lies (although we still have hope for them, me included) - they made so many false statements about how they were recording an album, how everything was fine, how they didn't know why their concerts got cancelled in so many countries, not to speak of the "yes we are lesbians, no we're not"-thing, which got so ridiculous at some point, like it …now only care about the music that they listen / listened to and the music they will listen from tATu in the future.

I get that, and respect that people were fed up or tired and only like the music now. However, I feel that in your case it is not just the music you care about, you also care about dwelling on all that is negative about Tatu. Which is your right, but I don’t enjoy being around it, therefore, left. Simple as that. If your posts were just about the positives of Tatu, however few they’ve become, I’d have no problems.

I and most of us stayed here out of a little bit for curiosity about the future of tATu, since it was such an interesting project, and also -mainly- because we developped bonds here and have fun here.

Exactly. I never was apart of those specific bonds formed. The majority of the bonds I formed here were broken when my friends were banned or left for the same reasons as I.

And we have about the same right to stay here because there are people here we respect and who respect us and with whom we can talk without taking everything seriously and just hang out and chill, just like the others have their right to go to other sites to keep worshiping tATu blindly and make up theories and discuss what there is and what there is not to discuss based on little to no credibility - if they're fine like that, why not?

Never said you didn’t have that right. And, once again, you make a pot shot. Do you just not consciously realize you are doing it and that its rude? You can have your opinion, but you don’t have to be an ass about it. That’s the key. Maybe you just don’t care about respecting other people’s feelings or being polite, but I do and do not enjoy being around people that aren’t. And, as ridiculous as you think it is, I think there is credibility in many of my “debates” or “theories.” I am not an un-educated, foolish person. Before telling me that I am foolish or that my theories have no credibility flat out, please provide me with all conclusive information. Are you going to provide me with scenes from anatomy? Because I had as much respect for the validity of that “documentary” as I did for any tabloid or newspaper article.

if somebody doesn't like those choices, they can either get over it and act normally or go to some other place to complain about how A or B don't worship tATu blindly like they were supposed to (?) or discuss what has been discussed a million times, because that's the right thing to do, that's the positive spirit!

See this is where you are greatly mistaken. I didn’t leave here so I could go talk about how negative you all are. I left here to talk about something positive. I love how you slant that. I could just as easily say- People can either get over the lies Tatu had and act normal or go somewhere and wallow in bitter negativity and complain about how people actually still like Tatu or mock everything Tatu does. Because that’s the right thing to do, that’s the positive spirit!! That’s funny…heh.

Now, if I think somebody is an idiot for still believing tATu have something going on other than friendship? Yes. If I think somebody who still overanalyzes the whole gossip surrounding tATu is wasting their time? Yes, most likely. If I think somebody who obsesses with the members of the group to an extent of speaking out directly to them in their messages, demanding them for take this or that attitude regarding their personal lives, throw virtual baby showers for Yulia's baby, etc? Yes I do. And I will never say that I don't.
Nonetheless, other people here prefer not to say that even if they think it is so, and other people simply do not agree with me and have expressed it and shall express it further if they have that strong belief.

Why are they idiots exactly? Because there is so much evidence against it? I think there’s a lot of evidence for it as well. It is called I do not ignore any evidence. It isn’t like anyone who still believes there was/is something (to what degree…who knows) thinks they have always been together and are currently f*cking each other and never had a boyfriend. Why is it so hard to see that? How does it make me an idiot? Seriously, please explain. What all conclusive evidence do you have that I do not?? Are you going to call me blind? As if that gets you out of having to provide proof? I can provide proof that I am not blind, and in fact am extremely insightful (beyond my age and beyond the norm, as cocky as it sounds, we are being honest here right?) DO I think members who obsess about tatu to the extent you have described are…a tad strange…yes, I do. That doesn’t make everyone that way. Just like not everyone on here is as negative as you are. The fact that you say you will never stop saying those comments shows that talking with you is futile and pointless. Forre may call it ignorance, but I see it as picking my battles, and one with you is impossible (and not because you are a master debater).

Nobody here lacks of individuality,

Never thought differently. But in life, individuals will tend to mimic those that look up to or befriend. I have found that some of you have changed to a certain extent. I am not saying you are not being yourselves, but I feel you are expressing a part of yourself that is more like others- and that part tends to be caustic and negative.

This forum is not an overly-dramatic gathering of obsessed tATu fans, it's a place where people who have / had some sort of connection with the band just hang out and don't take things or themselves too seriously. And nobody who just drops by once in a while, and thinks it should be some other way, will change that.

I try not to take things too seriously. But I also have very little tolerance for blatant rudeness when I find it unwarranted. At the same time, I also feel that I cannot sit back and watch people skirt around a topic or speak in ignorance. I feel the need, for whatever reason (I wish were not the case, it would save me countless hours), to post and explain to try and refute some misunderstood issue. In this case, I felt a certain way about why I personally left tatysite and felt like expressing it.

As for just dropping in once in awhile…I used to spend hours on this forum. This was my community. Sure, I rarely post now, and do not frequent it nearly as often, but all of what I said above are things I have experienced as I struggled on whether to leave or not. Maybe it has changed since I left, but I still read posts and still see the things I saw before.

And I will say for the nth time…I’m not asking you to change. I telling you why I do not post or frequent the forum or consider it my community as I did before.

EDIT: I know you never mentioned me specifically, but I am still going to defend fans like me, because I think, whether you intended it or not, I am included in that group of dellusionals. Maybe I am mistaken, and if I am, maybe you shouldn't speak so generally or if you do add a disclaimer that you are not talking about the more moderate fans who still support tatu.

Anyway, I am going to bow out now, not for petty reasons, but simply because I think I have said a lot, and am lazy, lol, and would rather not get into it anymore. Not meant to offend anyone.

Unplugged
14-12-2004, 03:11
think the one that u said was on CRACK is me
I was speaking in general.

as it was me who was talking about people loosing identity here and others afraid to express their opinion.
That, yes :D

I'm not blind tatu-fan who feels offended by tatu-bashing here. I'll tell u more - I never was.
Val, I know your point of view, we've talked before, remember? LOL You don't need to explain that to me :gigi: I know you're not a blind fan.

And I don't think you are cool coz u don't. Sometimes it's much better to keep something for urself. But it's a hard way, coz u care about being cool, so-well-informed and realistic, so who cares about what others think and feel, right?
I don't care about being anything except truthful. If I feel something, I say it, unless it's really horrible to a point of making someone's life a living hell. If someone might feel offended... it's because their inside already has problems and many insecurities and thus they are receptive to taking things personally and being offended. So, it's not really my responsability there. I talk here as I talk when I'm with a group of friends, I will not talk here like I'm defending my thesis in a classroom in college, lol. Sorry. What I say here is not meant to be taken personal. What everybody says here is not meant to be taken personal, unless in the threads of the personal forum, of course. Besides that, if people take things personal, it's because they want to.

And when I say something, it's not just an impression of someone running buy. It's something I actually see. All is IMHO of course. I never claimed it being an absolute truth.
Neither have I. It's all opinions, no absolute truths. On your side and my side. And when I say "if someone thinks that, they're on crack" I OBVIOUSLY don't mean it literally, it's a form of expression to say "I don't agree" :p Once again, I am not gonna stop myself from speaking like that just because someone might misinterpret it, and start talking in a formal manner. If someone misinterprets anything I say, I am glad to clarify it.

Yes, it became much harder to differ one post from another when they are all filled with bitterness and humor (wich is often rude)
I can only think you're talking about the tATu section, right? Because when you read some of those news, you have to take it with a grain of salt and be humorous/sarcastic about it, because there are so many contradictions. Bitterness? That comes off as people being angry or frustated with something. I never noticed that here, except in one or two situations. If you think it's like that all the time, it's your way of analyzing it!

What I think is wrong is that diversity of opinions (even if it's about tatu only) is not welcomed here. If the person comes here and says he loves TATU and believes they are actually together, it's his opinion and it should be respected. But in fact u'd just eat such person alive. That's why they are all gone
I would laugh at it, yeah :laugh: But I would get used to it and also show them my opinion, just like I did with Rob, Xena, etc etc. They were banned by the administrator, because they started to be too fundamentalist about their opinions and lead to chaos in discussions, not because they just had one different opinion. That's a very harsh and partial way to look at it. Now, if I care they're gone? Nope - and not because their opinions were different from mine, but because they took everything too seriously and personal. But people who are gone in other ways left because they wanted to find people with similar views, not because people here forced them to have a specific view or not allow them to have a different opinion. It was their choice. And I don't care about other people choice's, unless I love them, I am not responsible for them. If I go to a club and get introduced to a certain number of people by a friend, and I don't like them, and choose not to join them next friday night, it's my choice, my taste, it's not their fault.

u can add a list of other things i'm ON now =))))))
I was speaking in general, silly :p

la aurora
14-12-2004, 04:00
Val, I know your point of view, we've talked before, remember? LOL

Erm.. did we? Damn.. once again I missed the place. I was meant to post at some forum I never visited before but sound all cool and confident so everyone suspects everyone around knowing me and like respecting me hella much :p

I don't care about being anything except truthful.

It's easy to be truthfull in situations like this. If u were the only blind tatu-fan here and dared to express ur opinion openly here, I'd applause u *cracks up imagining u posting 'they love each other threads* :lol: But seriously, there are situations when saying all u have to say is somewhat brave. But there are some where at least trying not to hurt someone's feelings takes much more courage. Try being cool in all ways possible, not only this one eh =)

when I say "if someone thinks that, they're on crack" I OBVIOUSLY don't mean it literally, it's a form of expression to say "I don't agree" :p Once again, I am not gonna stop myself from speaking like that just because someone might misinterpret it, and start talking in a formal manner. If someone misinterprets anything I say, I am glad to clarify it.
If u were said that u are on 'something' as often as me, I'd definitely get this habit of misinterpreting things lol Not like I don't enjoy doing it tho :p


I can only think you're talking about the tATu section, right?

Mostly yes, still a person must stay himself wherever he does post. Wasn't it something u said before? About phone, i-net.. whatever

I would laugh at it, yeah :laugh:
well I guess u got what i mean already but still. If u don't agree, proove ur opinion instead of pointing a finger and laughing. It's not the way to proove u are right. I wasn't doing this to u when u had different attitude towards TATU, would u enjoy it? Feel free to express ur opinion but do it in civilized way. So far it looks like a group of bullies indeed.

I was speaking in general, silly :p

U just called me silly???? :nunu: Or am I misiter.. damn.. this word is waaay to hard for 7 am.. I go sleep better :p

nath
14-12-2004, 04:06
Excuse me bitty ...I absolutely don't write here to "defend" forre.
I absolutely agree with what Sunny Poison and Yourself wrote...but it's just for the veracity of the facts....and to corret a little mistake...hihi:

Don't think it's forre who wrote some of your quotes but staringelf... :rolleyes: :D

Originally Posted by forre
Now, if I think somebody is an idiot for still believing tATu have something going on other than friendship? Yes. If I think somebody who still overanalyzes the whole gossip surrounding tATu is wasting their time? Yes, most likely. If I think somebody who obsesses with the members of the group to an extent of speaking out directly to them in their messages, demanding them for take this or that attitude regarding their personal lives, throw virtual baby showers for Yulia's baby, etc? Yes I do. And I will never say that I don't.
Nonetheless, other people here prefer not to say that even if they think it is so, and other people simply do not agree with me and have expressed it and shall express it further if they have that strong belief


Originally Posted by forre
This forum is not an overly-dramatic gathering of obsessed tATu fans, it's a place where people who have / had some sort of connection with the band just hang out and don't take things or themselves too seriously. And nobody who just drops by once in a while, and thinks it should be some other way, will change that.

-->indeed staringeld wrote that. :p

Unplugged
14-12-2004, 04:14
when u had different attitude towards TATU, would u enjoy it? Feel free to express ur opinion but do it in civilized way. So far it looks like a group of bullies indeed.
People have laughed at me for my opinions too... And? :laugh: It happens, people disagree and laugh at each other, so what? Should I make a drama out of it? I won't :p
Group of bullies? OK... Don't you think you're going a little bit too far? *scratches balls and spits on the floor* :lol:

If u don't agree, proove ur opinion instead of pointing a finger and laughing.
I have said my opinion on that subject [the contradictions behind tatu] many, many times! I don't just "point the finger and laugh"... And when I "point the finger and laugh" it's when people say the most unbelieveable things, like Pasha being a sperm donor and Lena and Yulia having the baby for themselves :laugh: Come on! How can you not laugh at this?

U just called me silly???? Or am I misiter
Yes, "silly" in a nice way :p As in "don't be silly, you know I don't have anything against you" :no: :rose:

Bitty2002
14-12-2004, 04:32
Sunwalk That was purely unintentional. That is strange, I highlighted those quotes in staringelf's post and hit quick quote...weird. Sorry about that. Runs off to edit. Sorry Forre.

nath
14-12-2004, 04:42
no problem at all bitty, I believe you :)

shizzo
14-12-2004, 04:45
:10x:

I had a feeling I'd be mentioned.

I'm still around. I visit a few times each week to read threads
and see what's going on. I just don't post that much 'cos I
sort of fell out of sync with the ongoing news here a while ago.

But, as for updates... I moved into a different apartment about
a week ago. It's actually fairly nice. And cozy. And I'm still at
the same job, in the same city. Single, but okay. Things change.

So, hi to everybody.
Except QueenBee, who thinks that mah smarts be smartassd.

:D

Unplugged
14-12-2004, 04:55
But, as for updates... I moved into a different apartment about
a week ago. It's actually fairly nice. And cozy. And I'm still at
the same job, in the same city. Single, but okay. Things change.
Single? :eek: But you looked so perfect :( Well, things change, you're right. I just hope you didn't get hurt ;)

So, hi to everybody.
Hi :D
You're missed. :yes:

Lux
14-12-2004, 06:56
when was the last time a thread elicited serious discussion without mocking or laughing at the information, or the opinions of members' posts?
it seems to me, most threads and posts end up in jest. i do not mean it is all laughter and finger pointing, but much of it is. i can only attribute this to how changes in tatu have effected individual members, although there is no gauge on what exactly happened with each.

shizzo
14-12-2004, 06:56
But you looked so perfect
Yeah. But things just don't work sometimes.

You're missed
Aww. :D I'll try to post a little more often so that I don't
seem so estranged.

Kate
14-12-2004, 07:49
cniaju, it's really nice to see you back here! :D

staringelf, :D :rose: I totally agree with everything you've said. :done:

forre
14-12-2004, 09:40
How was what I said ignorant? Can you explain why? (I wasn't saying that in a snide way, but sincerely.) I found what I said frustrated and realizing that I can keep on talking, but it typically gets no where, so why bother? It was more a nihilist, defeatist attitude than ignorance...or I thought so anyway...
This one for instance:
Well, I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I would like a mature debate. All that maturity dissipated. It's like arguing with children...I no longer see the point. They are going to keep poking Jonnie no matter how many times I tell them that isn't nice. Even doing this is futile, but I guess part of me can't shut up because I do wish things were different.
Thanks for that. Even mature debates fail to change some people's opinion and if you are not pleased with the situation the general athmosphere of the forum can hardly be blamed for that failure.

This situation reminds me of a divorced couple where a one is trying to explain that he/she left the other one because the other one changed. Maybe people just grew apart and there's nothing to do about it? Tatysite served its purpose once for you and many other people and it serves its purpose for new ones now. Search for the reasons in yourself, always. That's what I tried to say.

Kate
14-12-2004, 09:46
Bitty2002, no one is keeping you here, forcing you to stay or whatever. You are free to go if you don't like this place. :)

Olga is right by saying: "Tatysite served its purpose once for you and many other people and it serves its purpose for new ones now." :)

zebu
14-12-2004, 11:27
i wish all u ppl would come back cause this place sucks without u, now its just like sunny and bitty said, oneminded trash place.

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 11:31
i wish all u ppl would come back cause this place sucks without u, now its just like sunny and bitty said, oneminded trash place.
That's harsh. :none:

forre
14-12-2004, 11:31
i wish all u ppl would come back cause this place sucks without u, now its just like sunny and bitty said, oneminded trash place.
Any facts available to support this claim of yours calling it one-minded and trash?

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 11:33
I'd be interested to know whether it's the forum itself that's "trash" or if that insult was directed at the members. :mad:

Kate
14-12-2004, 11:50
This is all so silly. :rolleyes: Can we just drop this stupid discussion and find a better use of our time, please? :hmmm:

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 11:56
Gladly. :rolleyes:

nath
14-12-2004, 12:19
Bitty2002, no one is keeping you here, forcing you to stay or whatever. You are free to go if you don't like this place. :)
Always the same strategy Katbeider : propose to people or "help" them to leave the forum when they disagree with you instead of trying to see honestly if something is wrong and could be analyse in common...

Even mature debates fail to change some people's opinion and if you are not pleased with the situation the general athmosphere of the forum can hardly be blamed for that failure.

This situation reminds me of a divorced couple where a one is trying to explain that he/she left the other one because the other one changed. Maybe people just grew apart and there's nothing to do about it? Tatysite served its purpose once for you and many other people and it serves its purpose for new ones now. Search for the reasons in yourself, always. That's what I tried to say.
Sorry to tell you that I disagree with you forre .
I know that you have used a lot of your strengh to keep a balance on this site. But all these posts weren't an "attack" against Tatysite...there were just a warning saying , don't you see that the atmosphere of tatysite has changed...may be in the bad direction...

All that I'd keep from this thread is that some persons prefer to keep the closed eyes instead of trying to find a solution together, instead of trying to analyse themselves....I think we were ready to analyse ourselves if we would have misunderstood something...just think the other part have prefered to reject the problem saying it doesn't exist.
I don't regret this thread...even if i knew from the beginning that , as in our society, the POWER will "win"....and you has the power, here?..

I'm not surprised but i'm in peace with my counsciouness. :(

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 12:20
LOL. I don't know why, but I just feel like laughing right now. Seeing things from a different point of view, the "outside" kind of makes this whole debate funny. I don't know actually. I admire you guys for discussing so maturely (I'm not being sarcastic), but in the end... well.. all you can do in these situations is laugh, right?

So some people dislike what the forum has become. Well then LEAVE. Sheeeesh. No-one is forcing anyone to stay. If you really hate it here and don't want to be here, then you don't need to tell us how crappy we are.

In my personal opinion though, I've liked everyone here (more or less ;)) so for me it would definitely be fun to discuss like the old times, but that's not gonna happen of course! :laugh:

So, hi to everybody.
Except QueenBee, who thinks that mah smarts be smartassd.
Pfffff... I salute you anyway. :p
Smartass.

nath
14-12-2004, 12:33
well.. 1/all you can do in these situations is laugh, right?
So some people dislike what the forum has become. 2/Well then LEAVE. Sheeeesh. No-one is forcing anyone to stay. If you really hate it here and don't want to be here, then you don't need to tell us how crappy we are.

1/You can laugh of course queenbee if you feel it ...as your only purpose seems to have fun here....no problem...
2/Thank you for the invitation.... :)

Kate
14-12-2004, 12:33
Always the same strategy Katbeider : propose to people or "help" them to leave the forum when they disagree with you instead of trying to see honestly if something is wrong and could be analyse in common... I'm just saying that these discussions never lead anywhere (you should know that by now, it doesn't take being a rocket scientist to realise that), and Bitty seems to dislike TatySite.net. So why waste her time and ours? :dknow: Let's agree to disagree and go our seperate ways. :)

Queenie, I totally agree with you. This whole debate is really pathetic. A complete waste of time.

nath
14-12-2004, 12:42
I'm just saying that these discussions never lead anywhere (you should know that by now, it doesn't take being a rocket scientist to realise that), and Bitty seems to dislike TatySite.net. So why waste her time and ours? :dknow: Let's agree to disagree and go our seperate ways. :)
Sorry katbeider , I hadn't the same education as you....I'm not born in a dictature which just arrived, when it got its freedom, to transform itself in a kingdom of the Mafia...so may be we don't have the same valors....
An irrelevant and a narrow-minded remark. Kate wasn't brought up in the kingdom of Mafia to your greatest knowledge, thus the accusation is false.

Bitty doesn't dislike taysite, nor sunny poison, nor lux, nor me...we said that cause we like it very much.But may be , we have in common for exemple a kind of taste for respect , and democracy....and you are the living proof of anti-democracy....everyone has to shut up face to katbeider , even when she insults you...or she goes to cry and complain and everybody has big problems....
Everybody knows that ....when i've voted for you as contradictory member...it isn't because you treat tatu as sh*t in each one of your sentences,it's because of your personnality and all the bad you have made to other people who loved tatysite as much as you and had to leave it, just because they disagreed with you.

I agree it's a waste of time in the result....but for some persons , freedom of axpression has some valor which has no price.

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 12:46
I think this is a pointless debate too.
The only thing we can agree on is that the forum has changed, for better or for worse. It's not gonna be changing back any time soon so either deal with it or leave. I don't think that suggesting that people who dislike it here should leave is a completely irrational idea. What is irrational is hanging around on a message board that you hate and getting into a big debate about why it sucks so much. The internet is a big place - if tatysite no longer feels like home to you then just surf on through and find somewhere that does!
Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as anyone to see old members making a re-appearance, but not if it's going to result in a big "tatysite isn't what it used to be and its [insert someone's name here]'s fault!" argument every time they post.

Kate
14-12-2004, 12:50
sunwalk, if you want to argue (or debate, whichever you prefer to call it), fine, whatever - there are people like Bitty for that.

I don't know you, and all that stuff that you've just said about me is not true cuz you don't know me. So think whatever you want. I don't give a sh1t. :) Have a nice day. :rose:

nath
14-12-2004, 12:52
What I said about you is true.
1. You can't possibly know. 2. Far from any truth.

Kate
14-12-2004, 12:54
sunwalk, like I care what you think. :rolleyes:

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 13:00
1/You can laugh of course queenbee if you feel it ...as your only purpose seems to have fun here....no problem...
Nathalie, it's not. I don't really *have* a purpose to stay here. I'm here because I like it, because I like the people, because I like how clean it is with no flooding and spamming and bumping threads and we have intelligent people who say intelligent things and debate maturely. Most of us share the same humor, and even if we don't, we accept eachother's differences. We have open-minded and respectful people, and maybe that is something we should thank Tatu for. They are the reason to why we're here in the first place, and a band (or as me and D call it, project ;)) with a message involving homosexuality isn't likely to attract homophobes. So people who were open for the band are obviously gonna be open for other gay people etc. so there was never much "Ew you're gay" things going around here, as there might have been in others.

I'm not comparing us to anyone else, because obviously all Tatu forums having people who are very accepting. But it's just one of the things that makes me appreciate this forum and its people. As for the negativity, I have noticed it too. People just seem to be more down these days. Maybe it's winter depression for those of us on the north side of the globe? ;) Kidding. No, some do seem more aggressive but we have to adjust to that. We can't continue living in the past and constantly reminding ourselves of the good old times. Instead of just being mad for what we have now and missing what we had then, we should create something new for us to enjoy.


2/Thank you for the invitation....
*Sighs* I didn't mean it like that. I meant, people have been complaining about everything for some time now. If you don't like things here and continue blaming others, then goodbye to you if you really hate us that much and refuse to work together in order to make this forum a better place.... maybe?

^ This wasn't directed to anyone in particular, so don't come complaining to me about personal attacks... :)

luxxi
14-12-2004, 13:21
I think this is a pointless debate too.
The only thing we can agree on is that the forum has changed, for better or for worse. It's not gonna be changing back any time soon so either deal with it or leave. I don't think that suggesting that people who dislike it here should leave is a completely irrational idea. What is irrational is hanging around on a message board that you hate and getting into a big debate about why it sucks so much. The internet is a big place - if tatysite no longer feels like home to you then just surf on through and find somewhere that does!
Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as anyone to see old members making a re-appearance, but not if it's going to result in a big "tatysite isn't what it used to be and its [insert someone's name here]'s fault!" argument every time they post.

I have to disagree here. While I think people have right to "leave" (as if they can be forced to "stay" :rolleyes: ) they have also every right to air their grievances. It's not as we are talking about some meber who signed one month ago and start trashing this place. That would be out of place. But we are talking about "old hands" here who were here, posted, and could see things happening to/with this forum. If they wish to complain I think it's fair we give them a chance to do so. Forum is it's members, after all.

As for "if you don't like it leave" attitude. It reminds me of "Our country, love it or leave it" attitude certain groups had during Vietnam War in US. It's funny how people who scream most how intolerant US is becoming (and majority of them aren't even Americans but that's another matter altogether) are quick to say "if you don't like it here leave". What happened to tolerance here? :rolleyes: So what is the plan, drive away people who disagree with you so in the end only people who totally agree with you are left? How tolerant is that? Not only intolerant but useless as well. I always enjoy visiting forums where people with different (and often opposite) opinions post. Be it music, history, or current world events. It shows me world in different light, it shows me that people are not mindless drones but people who are using their brains and in the end it makes me study matters more closely by looking for facts that support my POV. I seek diversity on net, not my mirror image.

Remember last year when freddie was kicked? How many of you protested? How many of you left? If people who kicked him would say "if you don't like it the way it is leave" how many would be left here? We all screamed censorship, dictatoship etc etc. Which is perfectly OK as forum is it's members. So why not treat people who disagree now (like sunwalk) same way as you wanted to be treated back then. Listen to what they have to say and see if their grievances are legitimate or not. And if they are think if you should change what they are complaining about.

:newyear:

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 13:29
I understand what you're saying Luxxi and I agree to a certain point, but really, what is the point in coming back to a forum which you haven't been on in ages and complain how bad it is? It's easy to just sit back and blame everyone else... But as I said, I agree that this forum has CHANGED. :)

luxxi
14-12-2004, 13:39
I understand what you're saying Luxxi and I agree to a certain point, but really, what is the point in coming back to a forum which you haven't been on in ages and complain how bad it is?

1. To see if it changed for the better.
2. To tell people why you left. Specially if there is a post asking why certain members left.

This is what I did on several forums. Things took a nose dive so I left. I still check back ocasionally to see how things are and if they changed for the better. If they do I start posting there. If not I stay away.


It's easy to just sit back and blame everyone else...

Well, what can members do if you don't like some things?
1. Say nothing and continue as usual.
2. Say things suck and ask that they be changed.
3. Leave because things suck and your pleas to be changed are ignored.

And who is blaiming who here? Some members said things aren't what they expected and they left becasue of it. When they said so they were attacked and they have every right to defend themselves.


But as I said, I agree that this forum has CHANGED. :)

It has. Some peopel didn't like what it changed into, though.

:newyear:

freddie
14-12-2004, 13:41
I think what Nath's trying to say is that the "like it or leave" attitude is a wrong one to pursue in this situation. We're a community and we all contribute to the well-being of this place together. Sure it might have started out as a place to exchange opinions nad get info, but IMO it's evolved into so much more then just that. And for some members to be told to just leave if they don't like it is not something that'd be done in the spirit of working together for a better co-existance between outselves, is it?

What Bitty said IS a real problem of Tatysite. And I DO think that it'll drive away (and it has driven away in the past), many fans. And it's not like this happened after the big revelation. Sure there were some people who turned bitter and resentful towards the girls after that, and some left, but the real problem existed back in January of 2003, when I joined the forum just as much as it does now. Though there was a flow of new fans (actual fans) joining which kind of ballanced things out. But the overal mood of this forum was sarcastic, bitter and arrogant. People that were really into tatu were often told they're fools and idiots. The actual core of tatysite administration didn't seem to like tatu as a band (nor the image) one bit, which I found funny at the time. But now, the joke's on us. The forum is slowly decaying, and the core of regular posters here today seems to be totaly orientated at stickly bashing anything that's related to tatu. Hey I'm a critical person myself. I think their attitude sometimes sucked, I think their managment was/is horrible and I think they actually weren't frank about some of the things they've said. YET. I came here in the first place cause I liked the band, I liked what they represented and I liked the music. And that has never changed. That just doesn't seem to be the case for some of the members. It seems their sole purpose from the time they joined onwards was to bash and get a kick out of it (please none of you say "I'm not like that"... I'm not talking abotu individuals here, but rather about the overal feeling of the forum). And what has all this brought us? An average thread will start with 10 regular posters responding, and then again those same 10 posters responding to eachothers responses again. There is no life in tatysite at this point. And I can't belive it's purely down to "not intersting topics" or nothing happening to tatu at this moment. Tatu.us is a good proof of that. And I just cannot belive the overal bitterness and arrogance of this place hasn't contributed slightly to the fact taht no fans are joining and the old die-hard fans are leaving because they can't stand it anymore. People like Bitty, Volkotina, Xenna, convol... maybe you all considered them as gulable fools and dreamers, but tehy brought inteligence to this place. They argued without ofending or mocking anyone or stepping on someone's belivefs which is a lesson many tatysite members have yet to conquer. And now they're gone. Driven away. And there's no more ballance.

Like I said. Sure we can all claim that anyone can leave when they please if they like it. But that's just an old fashioned waiving of the "freedom of speech" flag. That might work for politics or journalism. But we're not politicians nor journalists. We're a community as well as individuals. I'm not saying that people should keep their opinons to themselves, cause that would completely defeat the forum's purpose. What I am saying though, is that they firstly could from time to time express their thoughts in a less arrogant fashion, where people wouldn't feel like they're getting ridiculed if they think in a different way then they do. And secondly at least try to limit the number of posts that are aimed strickly at mocking the whole tatu subject. Because I still do think that some members say certain stuff they don't mean just to stir shit up. Don't attack me now. It's just my personal opinion.
We all have a responsiblity in keeping this place that all meant much to most of us (at one point or another), alive. Sure, go ahead... just keep saying that people can leave if they please. But I ask you. Where will it all end? There'll be 5 people who don't have anything more useful to do left, laughing at how pathetic tatu are. I don't want it to end like that. This was a splendid thing once. Lets not waste it.

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 13:43
But we are talking about "old hands" here who were here, posted, and could see things happening to/with this forum. If they wish to complain I think it's fair we give them a chance to do so. Forum is it's members, after all.

They've been given a fair chance to explain. In fact, they've been given more than a fair chance - this thread has gone on for how many pages? and we're still going round and round in circles with the same old arguments!
We're getting nowhere with any of this.

Remember last year when freddie was kicked? How many of you protested? How many of you left? If people who kicked him would say "if you don't like it the way it is leave" how many would be left here? We all screamed censorship, dictatoship etc etc.

That's totally different! Freddie's ban was censorship and totally uncalled for. We were told "if you don't like it, leave" and some people did. But most of us weren't willing to throw all our time on these boards away just because someone got "ban-happy" and kicked a bunch of people who didn't deserve it. We stuck it out and the bans (well, some of them anyway) were eventually lifted because the remaining members stuck together and stood up for what we thought was right. If we'd all started complaining that the forum was shit and blaming each other for it then we'd have gotten nowhere!

Which is perfectly OK as forum is it's members. So why not treat people who disagree now (like sunwalk) same way as you wanted to be treated back then. Listen to what they have to say and see if their grievances are legitimate or not. And if they are think if you should change what they are complaining about.

I see your point but the fact is we have listened to both sides of the argument and we're still listening to it several pages later. We just don't seem to be getting anywhere. Why can't we just agree to disagree without anyone being personally insulted? :rolleyes:

I have a nasty feeling this thread is gonna get locked soon anyway. :(

teeny
14-12-2004, 13:52
think the main problem with this discussion is that like a few members said: it won't be lead to anything. And I'm not saying this because the discussion is meaningless but because none of us will change our point of view.

I normally don't want to give in before the discussion is discussed fully, but sometimes it's difficult to even get the discussion going. Like in this case where the response is: if you don't like it then leave.
The main problem is that I think most of us is trying to have the discussion because we actually care and therefor don't really want to leave without seeing if things will be able to change first.

what is the point in coming back to a forum which you haven't been on in ages and complain how bad it is?well they are bound to have been around here from time to time. Otherwise they would never have been able to join in on the discussion. Sometimes it's easier to locate the problem if you let it be for a while and then return to it after clearing your head :heh:

Miguel: yeah we can disagree with a lot of things and we do so aswell, and the good thing is that we are both able to agree with disagreeing instead of focusing at the troubles.

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 13:54
I'm not saying I don't WANT the old members back. I miss the old times like hell, and it's too bad that those members who left did. But I really see no point in coming here after so long just to complain. Not many people did that actually, but I'm just saying.

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 13:59
The real reason this thread makes me so uncomfortable is because I can see a freaking war on the horizon if it goes on like this much longer! The absolute lowest point this forum has ever seen was last December, post-'Anatomy...', and it was fucking unbearable. I don't want anyone to have to endure the kind of shit that was thrown back then again.
That, to me, was the turning point for this forum and despite what some people propose I know it will never be the same. That's a fact. There's no need to blame anyone for it because in some way we were all responsible for the sudden (and scary) moodshift.
Now I think we've found some kind of balance again. It might not be perfect but I see no need to upset that balance by squabbling over facts that you can't change.
I don't want anyone to leave. I'm happy that old members are posting again. But sometimes I feel like certain people are looking down their noses at me because I chose to stay here.
And, personally, I think tATu is irrelevant in this discussion. Hell, it was even suggested a while back that we forget about this being a tATu site and opening it up to all forms of Russian music. I didn't hear too many people complaining about that. And those that did object (and, yes, I was one of them) didn't do so on the grounds that we remain "faithful" to tATu. We objected because we didn't want new members coming here and a whole (as queenie put it) "ew - you're gay" fight kicking off.

teeny
14-12-2004, 14:01
Not many people did that actually, but I'm just saying.and I would agree if it was only members that had/have left the forum that are adding fuel to the fire, but when members who are still active on a daily basis (or any basis) are joining in then the solution isn't to say "take it or leave it". Even though I do know that it's the easiest solution

coolasfcuk
14-12-2004, 14:05
I dont have time now, but to say fast:

Just to re-confirm - people arent having this discussion here to only complain and only blame (I personaly blame myself first and the most for example), people are having this discussion because as you can see by the number of replys, they DO care, and they just might not want to leave.

luxxi, thank you for that 'tolerance' comparioson :D

luxxi
14-12-2004, 14:07
They've been given a fair chance to explain. In fact, they've been given more than a fair chance - this thread has gone on for how many pages? and we're still going round and round in circles with the same old arguments!
We're getting nowhere with any of this.

Yeah, and as soon as they told you soem things you don't want to hear it was "love it or leave it" and people responding to that.

Which IMO is a waste of time. If I were in their shoes and would get "love it or leave it" attitude when I would air my grievances I would say "Up your. I'm through with this place." They stick around. Maybe they hope they will change things. It's their choice anyway.


That's totally different!


Yeah, you disagreed with mods, not sunwalk or anybody else. When shoe is on other foot things look different, eh? :rolleyes:


Freddie's ban was censorship and totally uncalled for. We were told "if you don't like it, leave" and some people did.


Which exactlly what you are saying to these people now. What is difference anyway? :spy:


But most of us weren't willing to throw all our time on these boards away just because someone got "ban-happy" and kicked a bunch of people who didn't deserve it. We stuck it out and the bans (well, some of them anyway) were eventually lifted because the remaining members stuck together and stood up for what we thought was right.


Yes, things changed because you stood up for what you beleived (I supported fighting the ban as well). So where is the difference between us compalining back then and peopel complaining now? Only that back then it was connected to single event aimed at single member and now it's more general.


If we'd all started complaining that the forum was shit and blaming each other for it then we'd have gotten nowhere!


Which people did. They left here and went to .us and bitched there. I know, I was there. :rolleyes:


I see your point but the fact is we have listened to both sides of the argument and we're still listening to it several pages later. We just don't seem to be getting anywhere. Why can't we just agree to disagree without anyone being personally insulted? :rolleyes:

I have a nasty feeling this thread is gonna get locked soon anyway. :(

Of course it's not getting anywhere because you are quick to throw "love it or leave it" line at them. Which is a guarantee that this woun't go anywhere as it's clear that peopel here are unwilling to change.

:newyear:

Mossopp
14-12-2004, 14:12
Yes, things changed because you stood up for what you beleived (I supported fighting the ban as well). So where is the difference between us compalining back then and peopel complaining now? Only that back then it was connected to single event aimed at single member and now it's more general.
The differance is that Freddie's banning was uncalled for and we needed to stand up for him. It was a serious event. Where's the serious event now? We're arguing over nothing. That's the difference!

Which people did. They left here and went to .us and bitched there. I know, I was there. :rolleyes:
That's because people got huffy and these boards were shut down. Noone could post on them. That's the reason we went to .us! It was merely a convenient place for all the tatysiters to convene while this place was out of commission.

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 14:15
I don't understand. Is this place really THAT bad? Can all the people who hate Tatysite please raise their hands? I admit this has changed into something more negative, but it's just natural. Things change, for crying out loud. :( They're never gonna be the way they were, so it's no use if we write how much we miss the old times in every post. The old times were the old times, and even though I think it's good to discuss this, we can't go back in time. I am actually enjoying myself alot here - seems like I'm the only one, sadly.

Ps. 9 members are browsing this thread... this is what I call interesting. :p

teeny
14-12-2004, 14:18
That's because people got huffy and these boards were shut down. Noone could post on themwhich is why one should hope this one stays open for once so that the matter can be discussed. Sure it might not be heading anywhere just like in the past, but it's always better to get to know where people stand instead of just closing it down and hope it blows over.

qb: "Hate" is not the word you should be looking for.. disliking the way things are in generel - in that case I'll raise my hand.. :done:
If I hated this forum I wouldn't be around still.

luxxi
14-12-2004, 15:26
The differance is that Freddie's banning was uncalled for and we needed to stand up for him. It was a serious event. Where's the serious event now? We're arguing over nothing. That's the difference!

It's nothing to you. It's something to others. Just because you think it's stupid it doesn't mean it really is.

:newyear:

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 15:33
qb: "Hate" is not the word you should be looking for.. disliking the way things are in generel - in that case I'll raise my hand..
If I hated this forum I wouldn't be around still.
Good. :gigi: That you don't hate this forum and that you're still here, that is... lol. :)

la aurora
14-12-2004, 16:39
Group of bullies? OK... Don't you think you're going a little bit too far? *scratches balls and spits on the floor* :lol:
Erm.. after this I wanna go even futher.. I mean who wouldn't want to be as far as possible seeing a bully scratching whatever he got there and spitting on da floor :hmmm:


I have said my opinion on that subject [the contradictions behind tatu] many, many times! I don't just "point the finger and laugh"... And when I "point the finger and laugh" it's when people say the most unbelieveable things, like Pasha being a sperm donor and Lena and Yulia having the baby for themselves :laugh: Come on! How can you not laugh at this?
If it was really so, I wouldn't say a word to u. But the truth is that sometimes the border between stupidity and having different opinion is very thin. And sometimes u allow urself laughing at pointing a finger at anything u don't agree but lazy to argue with. Sometimes it's easy to laught than to think. Other people do have feelings and have same right to stay and discuss whatever they want on this forum. It's tatu-related forum after all. Why everyone who dares to show a lil bit more love to them that it's common to is getting all this laughing and cruel remarks? It's wrong, sorry.


Yes, "silly" in a nice way :p As in "don't be silly, you know I don't have anything against you" :no: :rose:
Hey, relax already.. I was just fooling around. I take myself less seriously than u take me all together :D No need to explain such things. I mean, Miguel, we did talk before.. don't u remeber? :p

haku
14-12-2004, 17:36
An average thread will start with 10 regular posters responding, and then again those same 10 posters responding to eachothers responses again.Indeed, the "negative" regular posters, the mini-Kates as someone called them, are only a handful. I've said it many times, if the dozens of "positive" members, who are now only lurking apparently, really wanted it, they could easily overwhelm the negative ones, that's what happens on other Tatu forums, if someone says something negative on Tatu, they are quickly put in their place by dozens of people.
Here, instead of replying to the negative posters, the positive ones have become silent, that's another form of protest. From what i'm reading here, the positive members have stopped posting because they feel hurt by what the negative ones are saying, not just by the way they are saying it but by the very content of what they are saying (no matter how you say it, a negative comment remains a negative comment). So where does that lead us? To come back, the positive members are requesting the negative ones to stop being negative and saying what they think.
Maybe that will happen, everything is possible.

Personally, i'm not asking anyone to leave or shut up. Your are positive? Post positive comments and deal with the fact that are negative ones. You are negative? Post negative comments and deal with the fact that are positive ones.

la aurora
14-12-2004, 17:47
Now seriously, I'll try to put things all together. I don't feel like I have right to talk for any other posters in here, so I'll be talking only IMHO:

1. I do love this place. I didn't come here to bash the site that gave me so much once. So putting on me 'that basher from who knows where' lable would be wrong.

2. I don't have problems with people having fun here. It was always the part of tatysite and quite an important one. I even enjoy it as far as there's something behind it, as far as people keep ability to think and express themselves in serious topics from time to time.

3. I don't have anything against forum as a whole, neither I 'hate' any member of this place in particular. Most of people that are still here I used to love and still do in my own wierd way. I have problems with some of their actions, particular actions and behaviour in some particular situations. And I wouldn't say a word if I didn't care for these people and forum as whole.

4. My intention wasn't to have some neverending discussion here prooving that things suck. All I hoped for is some bit of understanding and just good people I know looking around and giving whole situation a thought at least. Sometimes people need a slap to come back to reality. I do need such slaps quite often at least.

5. I don't really care what u think about TATU. As I said already, I'm not that type of fan and I don't think TATU give a damn about it themselves. What I think is wrong is that u stopped respecting other people's opinions and feelings. u do make people who u don't agree with leave the place even if not intentionaly. And u didn't notice how ur bitterness towards whole tatu thing spreaded on some other things as well. U can talk about how bad TATU are as much as u want, doesn't mean u should turn cold-hearted, disrespectful and so on.. these are people u are talking to and offend, not TATU. Don't forget that.

6. This whole 'if u don't like, leave' thing is just a good excuse not to think. And when forum-mebers who used to spend days and nights here and were making tatysite what it was loved for come here and try to speak with u the way they were always used to, using arguments and quite thought-out ideas and u just tell them to leave if they don't like it here, who u are after that? What are u defending here? Tatysite was always a team of people. Now some aren't around at all, some left to that another forum and the ones who stayed are holding a war against those? lol Isn't it wierd? Are u defending just 'tatysite.net'.. just letters in browser's address? or u want to have 4-5 people gang just hanging out together and having fun? This forum will die as a forum then.

This place always meant a lot to me. It gave me too much. I'm the type who'll stay trying to balance on the edge, trying to change things and so on. The only way to get rid of me is to say it directly to my face: 'leave! we got tired of u here!' I'm not a fan of annoying people, so I will :D But before that, don't u even hope.

And thanks to staringelf for creating this topic that made so many missed members appear to wave hello and to nath who turned this thread to some interesting discussion :rose:

Igor
14-12-2004, 17:56
:lol:

"if you don't like it, leave (http://forum.tatysite.net/login.php?do=logout)"

:gigi:

teeny
14-12-2004, 18:00
I guess this thread was taken seriously for too long..
Thank you for the reminder of the number one solution to things, igor

Kate
14-12-2004, 18:00
Igor, :done: :gigi:

End of discussion?

teeny
14-12-2004, 18:02
End of discussion?you are kidding, yeah? :spy:

Kate
14-12-2004, 18:03
*to self* Apparently not.

teeny, no. I was actually hoping people will find a better use of their time. :)

Igor
14-12-2004, 18:04
katbeidar, да наверное хватит уже мозги другим е*ать и споли по форуму размазывать. Ушли и ушли. Сколько уже ушло и пришло за 3 года. И ничего. Смешно читать этот бред. :D

QueenBee
14-12-2004, 18:05
Igor has perfect ways of solving things. :p

Kate
14-12-2004, 18:06
Igor, а я чего говорю? Я руками и ногами за то что ты сказал выше.

nath
14-12-2004, 18:10
I see the positive side of the things! DA! Igor's learnt so quickly english thanks to tatysite! :D
Great, Igor cause it was very long to read ! :done:
And Miguel ...look at the number of views of your thread ! :done: too.... ;) kiss..
One more time, I agree with you Sunny Poison and i've found your post very wise haku...thanks for it...just wish people would understand the feelings behind words which were sometimes ..hard...kiss :)