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freddie
19-10-2004, 00:13
http://www.tamboli.com/jay/god.html

Interesting dillema. :p

Seriosuly, "In God We Trust" quite is a serious slap in the face to all the non-christians, in a country that is TERRIBLY diverse. it probably wouldn't even show as much in Europe since European countries are much more homogenized then the former british collonies. And what happened to that all important separation between the goverment and the church? It's one of the key ingrediants to a solid liberal regime, yet here it seems the lines between the two might have been blured a bit.

Kate
19-10-2004, 00:20
Aaaaaaaaaawww... Poor Americans... like there's nothing more important to worry about. Lol.

thegurgi
19-10-2004, 16:57
i'm really getting sick of this

DAZ
19-10-2004, 19:07
In a similar vein...

The British National Anthem is God Save the Queen with the line "Rebellious Scots to crush"..It's like what?I'm supposed to crush myself? :bebebe:

Khartoun2004
24-10-2004, 23:08
ok I'm with thegurgi. I'm really getting sick of these arguments. I'm an atheist, but the fact that our money and pledge include "God" doesn't make me feel second class. What makes me feel second class is the fact that because of "God" being mentioned in everything and on everything in this country, the religious right seems to think that they found this wonderful country known as the Untied States of America. Well, guess again, they didn't. It was founded by a group of Unitarian Universalists (ie: Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, the list could go on...) not by the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormans, and anyother major religion in the world. Seperation of church and state was added to the constitution to ensure that people would not feel alienated because of different religious beliefs. Fight for your rights.

My point is, the Atheists and non-christians in this country should stop bitching about it and start being pro-active. If the word "god" really makes you feel second-class, take it to the courts and vote against Bush on November 2. Re-establish the checks and balances of the government.

ypsidan04
25-10-2004, 02:55
You just now realized that hypocrisy exists in Washington? :rolleyes: :laugh:

Taty_rox
25-10-2004, 05:48
I am atheist and I don't complain about the way things are... it's when people shove it in my face is when I get upset. Like my parents wedding... I was 6 and I still remember... I wanted to kill the priest... :( .

goku
25-10-2004, 06:04
Everyone has a real point. This is encouraging. :)

I'm gonna agree with Khartoun2004 here. It wouldn't bother me, but if it does bother someone and they wanted God taken out, they're not going to get much support from a conservative supreme court and white house. Vote for your right by voting in the election.

However, remember that 'God' has not always been a part of the American money and pledge of allegiance. The founding fathers, like Khartoun2004 said, were actually against putting it in the Constitution, and strongly believed in seperation of church and state. It wasn't until the 1950s that God was added to the pledge and monetary units. Whether it will get banned we'll just have to see; there are a lot of supports for it staying, however public prayer got banned from schools...

freddie
25-10-2004, 19:45
The core of the people that might get offended by this are not the atheist, but rather people of other religions. Atheists will just dismiss it... they don't belive in god, it's none of their concern. BUT... the god that's being mentioned in this statement is surely one specific god. The god of the Roman catolic christians. And that might be considered offensive or even opresive by people who belive in a different god, yet are just as spiritual and commited to their own religion as the christians are to theirs. They might get the feeling like christianity is being shoved down their throats.

And besides... this isn't even ABOUT people getting offended or not in the first place. It's about a basic question of one country's establishment... a seperation between the goverment and the church. There shouldn't even be any HINTS of connection between the two. As soon as there is you might think the US politics is being heavily influenced by the powerful christian forces inside the country.

Khartoun2004
25-10-2004, 22:40
Freddie well said. Even Bush in the third debate said that his faith in "God" helped him make his decisions, ect. He also eluded to the fact that he thought was doing "God's" work. If people in this country had half a brain they'd realize those statements alone should disqualify Bush for the office of President.

The President is supposed to uphold the laws of the land and the Constitution. "God" therefore should play no part in his decision making process. His decisions should be based on reason and reality. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "god" or any other higher power has no place in American courts, or legislature. It goes against everything our predecesors died and struggled for. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves I'm sure.

freddie
28-10-2004, 22:34
I'm sure he doesn't even REALIZE how very dangerous those words are. He's really proclaiming a war against a different religion and gives thumbs up to the radicals who falsely want to portray American presence in Iraq as a "holly war" of christianity against islam and the west against the arab world.

ypsidan04
04-11-2004, 01:23
Freddie well said. Even Bush in the third debate said that his faith in "God" helped him make his decisions, ect. He also eluded to the fact that he thought was doing "God's" work. If people in this country had half a brain they'd realize those statements alone should disqualify Bush for the office of President.

Some anonymous American once told him: "I feel like this is the first time that God has really been in the White House"

:mad:

If you've read Michael Moore's "Dude, Where's My Country", or even if you haven't read it, notice that there's a chapter entitled "Jesus W. Christ".
I'm sure he doesn't even REALIZE how very dangerous those words are. He's really proclaiming a war against a different religion and gives thumbs up to the radicals who falsely want to portray American presence in Iraq as a "holly war" of christianity against islam and the west against the arab world.

Yes, he doesn't realize that "Holy War" really means something to people over there. Here, it's just simple rhetoric.

freddie
04-11-2004, 01:48
Yes, he doesn't realize that "Holy War" really means something to people over there. Here, it's just simple rhetoric.

Well to an average Arab that rhetoric will mean that Bush is simply picking up where the pope Urban II left of in the crusades. :p

haku
04-11-2004, 02:42
Well to an average Arab that rhetoric will mean that Bush is simply picking up where the pope Urban II left of in the crusades.Which is easy for Arab people to think since Bush actually said several times that the war in Iraq (and against terrorism) was a new *crusade*, he said this very word several times, that was a stupid thing to say. I know for a fact that those sentences of Bush have been played thousands of times on Arab news channel, Arab populations think that Bush has launched a new crusade against Muslims to convert them to christianism.

Sometimes i wonder if Bush realizes that Arab people also have satelite TV and actually hear all the stupid things he says on American channels.

freddie
04-11-2004, 03:48
Well... the official reason for the crusades was christianization of muslims, but the REAL reason was muslim riches that Pope wanted to... acumulate. And in that sense Bush was not that far of. :p