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View Full Version : [Epilogue] Tatu In Podnebesnaya. Release from 14.03.04. [aka Ep. 14]


concy
10-03-2004, 18:08
Don't miss last episode of reality show "t.A.T.u. in Podnebesnaya | afterword".
What exactly will happen to t.A.T.u. group? What will they do? Will they record new album? Will they stay the due?...

Check it out this weekend: 14 March, 2004 at 23:05

tatu.fatal.ru

Unplugged
10-03-2004, 18:11
"Will they not answer any of those questions and keep torturing their fans?" :lalala: :p

Lena410
10-03-2004, 18:19
another last episode? *lol* why does that *not* surprise me. *grins* I hope we'll se a lot of the girls at least..Im pretty pissed at masnki as it is..if he would have *tried* to get them in the picture as less as possible he wouldn't have been this successful :rolleyes:
thanks concy for the news! :D

EDIT: will this be instead of the virtual world tour or a part of it? cause the best hits thing is sheduled on the same day...

RowerB
10-03-2004, 18:31
Thanks for the info concy.

Originally posted by staringelf
"Will they not answer any of those questions and keep torturing their fans?" :lalala: :p
That hit the nail on the head.

Lux
10-03-2004, 18:54
thanks concy


seriously torture = boredom

LenochkaO
11-03-2004, 00:01
While everyone else will be focused on the presidential election that will take place that day (i.e. by exactly how big a margin Putin will win), Tatu fans around the world will be going "Sod the election, we wanna know what's happening with Tatu!"

haku
11-03-2004, 01:18
Originally posted by Lena410
will this be instead of the virtual world tour or a part of it? cause the best hits thing is sheduled on the same day...
It's the same thing, Manski has always said that they would air a final show on the 14th if the album was not released that day.

[deleted to avoid unnecessary debate]

Edit: I wanted to add that the teaser "What exactly will happen to t.A.T.u. group? What will they do? Will they record new album? Will they stay the due?..." was written by tatu.fatal themselves. STS site doesn't say anything about the episode except its title.

thegurgi
11-03-2004, 02:34
haku, epilogue and afterword are pretty basically the same thing...................

hrmm, so we have no clue about this Show is really going to be about.... but i guess epilogue's are a bit more.... FINAL

haku
11-03-2004, 02:52
Originally posted by thegurgi
haku, epilogue and afterword are pretty basically the same thing
"послесловие" does litterally mean "afterword" and after checking further it seems that Russian use the same word for "afterword" and "epilog" so let's pretend i said nothing.

thegurgi
11-03-2004, 04:52
OK Haku... hehe, if you didn't notice, i contradicted myself in my own post. i meant not to start anything, you didn't need to delete it.

i guess it's fruitless now... we haven't a clue what's going on at all! :: but, then again :: did we ever?

forre
14-03-2004, 17:45
t.A.T.u. in Podnebesnaya – Epilogue

We are to watch one of the most delightful episodes of the project: lots of clips from their concerts will help to dive in the atmosphere of grand success and national pride – many love t.A.T.u. just because these young ladies gave many Russians the possibility to experience again this already forgotten feeling …

Vitaly Mansky commented this episode:
“This is the enigma of t.A.T.u. – they are able to put everything upside down. As a result, everything that was supposed to serve as a prologue, a fairy-tale of conquering the world with their first album, finally turned into an epilogue, because there was not a single new word said by anyone. The new album, in the format that was expected, didn’t happen at all, that’s why, here in epilogue, we remind about the joy of the success of our co-citizens on the world stage. They sold SEVEN MILLIONS copies of their discs! They received 15 platinum and 20 gold discs in different countries, including those countries where no Russian artists have been known before.”

A presentation of the compilation Podnebesnaya CD took place on March, 11. One t.A.T.u. track, one Ivan Demyan’s track and 10 tracks of new, absolutely unknown artists appeared on that CD. Those 10 artists are the winners, that will score success and acknowledgement. Thousands of people sent their work to Podnebesnaya during the past months, but only those 10 lucky ones managed to win the attention of the leaders of Neformat. A few personalities were spotted at the presentation: Arthur Gasparyan, Edward Limonov, Vitaly Mansky, Ilya Legostaev and Ivan Denyan … all, except t.A.T.u.

The day after, Vitaly shared with us his experience from his first and the only one visit to Podnebesnaya, not as a director but as a guest:

“I heard this album on a CD and it produced a better impression on me this time, than yesterday when I, a sort of heard it together with another invited guests. This new creation of Neformat has not even a one-hundredth part of the chance to get the same success as the first t.A.T.u. album in the world”.

Well now, it looks like an end. The project came to its final. Is it really so?

Mansky: “ I would finish it with the following phrase: If to speak about the future of the former t.A.T.u. artists, I’d still believe that all thinkable versions are possible – from the fact that in a month they’ll return to the Neformat’s nest, and to the fact that they left for a cloister or Mars, as well as some other producer may take them under his wings. So, they'll sing that first album again. The second album won’t happen anyway. Ever. Thinking of the second album, we don’t speak about some dummy blank disc with a bunch of songs. Instead, we speak about another success! Without Shapovalov, they won’t be able to repeat such a success. It’s pointless for another producer to put something into them … Those t.A.T.u. have grown up now. Of course, a one can think of something new, but where is the point to create something new for “somebody else’s children”.

Extra episodes of Podnebesnaya. Are they possible?

Mansky: “Yes, they are possible. It’s necessary to somehow cross all “t’s” in a way as the life itself will show. That’s why if the girls sue Shapovalov and will try to take the label from him, I think it’s possible that it will be shot on cameras and shown. The project needs some final dot.”

Translation: TatySite.net Team

RowerB
14-03-2004, 18:12
Thanks for the preview forre.

The second album won’t happen anyway. Ever.
I think Mansky has gone mad now.

haku
14-03-2004, 18:13
Thanks for the translation forre :rose:

It sounds like the end alright... But Mansky is wrong when he says it would be pointless for another producer to take the girls, they have talent and potential, they just need a good management team. They can still have a lot of success and generate a lot of money, and that's why i can see a lot of producers being interested in taking them.

crni
14-03-2004, 18:15
Mansky: “ I would finish it with the following phrase: If to speak about the future of the former t.A.T.u. artists, I’d still believe that all thinkable versions are possible – from the fact that in a month they’ll return to the Neformat’s nest, and to the fact that they left for a cloister or Mars, as well as some other producer may take them under his wings. So, they'll sing that first album again. The second album won’t happen anyway. Ever. Thinking of the second album, we don’t speak about some dummy blank disc with a bunch of songs. Instead, we speak about another success! Without Shapovalov, they won’t be able to repeat such a success. It’s pointless for another producer to put something into them … Those t.A.T.u. have grown up now. Of course, a one can think of something new, but where is the point to create something new for “somebody else’s children”.
very interesting paragraph...makes one to really think about the future...and makes me confused...again... :ithink:

btw, tnx for the translation, forre ;)

Rob
14-03-2004, 18:15
Thank You forre for the translation.

... That’s why if the girls sue Shapovalov and will try to take the label from him, I think it’s possible that it will be shot on cameras and shown....
Ivan might regret the day he hired Mansky, 'cause that quote sounds like Mansky was eager to film the girls cutting Ivan's head and presenting it on a tray.

forre
14-03-2004, 18:18
Hey, ppl! Mansky is hardly any music expert. Wasn't he in the documentary business? ;) It's just his opinion, that's all.

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 21:15
i'm confused....

the show is airing NOW... so why do we have a report?!

oh, i guess it says "we are To watch"... hrmmm,

forre
14-03-2004, 21:17
The episode consists of the clips from 4 t.A.T.u. gigs from 2003: Bonn, St. Petersburg and 2 from Tokyo. I’d say that the director managed to choose the most spicy and at the same time the most “vivid” shots. This final episode is a pure treasure for fans and I think that it will be spread over the internet very quickly. There we’ll see not quite sober behaviour of the girls and rather chilling statements.

Lena Katina: “Today I understood a very important thing – I’m a total ham and I’d better get out of the show business, not to destroy it. Though, everything is already destroyed to hell. I need to get through my first education and start studying law.”

So we see clips from the live performances and simply from the tours. The clips are backed up with the songs, followed by the titles with the songwriters’ names in this order: Not Gonna Get Us, Prostye Dvizheniya, Malchik Gay, Ne Ver, Ne Boisya, Show Me Love, Klouny, 30 Minutes, Stars and ATTSS.

The biggest part of the performances shown is taken from Bonn. More than half of the material has been already aired but the rest is worth to be seen.

At the end we see the script: “Today, group t.A.T.u. stopped their performances and the recording of their second album. Old songs remain with us.”

Further, there’s a video to the song “I will” (Zashishatsya Ochkami).

Source: Artem (http://www.tatulife.kulichki.net/)

Thanks to him!

haku
14-03-2004, 21:29
Thanks for the report Artem and forre for translating. :D

Yep, this is the end. :none:

crni
14-03-2004, 21:39
“Today, group t.A.T.u. stopped their performances and the recording of their second album. Old songs remain with us.”
damn, that sounds like they died :(

tnx Artem and forre.

Kappa
14-03-2004, 21:41
A... ham?

Veggie Delite
14-03-2004, 21:49
Originally posted by darje
A... ham? :ithink:



k...this sounds bad. :none:

Rob
14-03-2004, 22:23
Thanks Artem and forre.

Pretty much what I expected from this episode. :none:

tatyruv
14-03-2004, 22:43
Thanks for the translation Artem & Forre

angeljas01
14-03-2004, 22:45
Thanks Forre and Artem...so so sad :(

Mossopp
15-03-2004, 00:06
R.I.P. t.A.T.u. :( :( :( :(

nasnedagoniat
15-03-2004, 00:17
Originally posted by forre
At the end we see the script: “Today, group t.A.T.u. stopped their performances and the recording of their second album. Old songs remain with us.”


Ummm.... What, they've stopped their performances, i.e. acting like they are in conflict with Ivan? They have stopped the recording of their second album, as in... it is complete and it will be released soon? Old songs remain with us.... yeah, and so what? Maybe I'm in denial(not the person), but this all still seems very surreal. *runs off in tears* I don't wanna talk about it!

Mossopp
15-03-2004, 00:27
“Today, group t.A.T.u. stopped their performances and the recording of their second album. Old songs remain with us.”

The above quote can be taken in three ways:

1. tATu from this day are no more. There will be no more performances and no more new songs. All that we have left of them are the songs and performances they have already given us.

2. tATu have stopped their acting. No more scams and publicity stunts. What we can now look forward to is a new tATu free of scandals and bullshit.

3. The above quote is just another load of shite dreampt up by Ivan to generate yet more interest in the future of tATu.

Now, I think we can totally discount Option 2 cos the day tATu abandon the scandals is the day I go straight!
Option 3 is a possibility but if Option 3 was the case then that would mean that Julia and Lena's alledged law suit against Vanya and Neformat was all a sham and I don't think that it was. :spy:
This only leaves us with Option 1 - the death of tATu. :(

samegirl
15-03-2004, 00:35
I guess we have been watched closely the rise and fall of a band that could have been an icon in the music bussiness because of everything they meant and they did...
I still have good feeling about it, i still have hope that everything is going to be alright and they still be making music, of course they have to start it all over again and they can. Other bands with worst problems that a bad and crazy producer did it in the past, so If yulia and Lena want they could do it...
I'm not asking if this is the end of tatu, or if lena and yulia would ever sing again...i just have one question...after all this fakeness will they want it to?
And...The worst part is that the whole world is bashing the girls, and if we look closer we know that they are not responsible for what's happening, maybe in a way,,,but they are not the main responsibles.
I would like to see Yul and Lena speaking to us, their fans and telling us that they are going to be working, that they have plans and everything is going to be ok, that they decided to fire shappy for the behalf of their career...but they haven't say nothing...only in the interview in yul's b-day where she says that they were a duet...but after this circus...That statement is not enough...Now more than ever we need to hear something from them.
Enough with the rumours...i need some certainity :(...
I want yul and Lena recording a second album, with any name they can think...taty... formely known as tatu or whatever...i just need to know something :( and i don't want this to end! :cry:

Mossopp
15-03-2004, 00:51
Originally posted by darje
A... ham?

"A ham" is a slang expression for a bad actor.

thegurgi
15-03-2004, 01:16
acting like they are in conflict with Ivan? They have stopped the recording of their second album, as in... it is complete and it will be released soon?

Hrmmm.... You know, that's the thing. That COULD be so, 'we've stopped pretending and we aren't recording anymore' ... because the album is done.

I dunno, i honestly DON'T know how to feel, and i don't like this at all...

any one with the Podnebesnaya Album? I want to hear the whole of Belochka

Kappa
15-03-2004, 01:28
Mossopp, thank you. :) To be a ham in here is to be hot.

Anyhoo. I'm not even paying that much attention. Lena's panties still have me in shock. But in the latest info I've gotten Ivan looks like he's a 'ho on crack half of the time, and this looks serious. I would be tired of working for a man that isn't serious about his job, too. I mean, he's even more of a drama queen than Yul.

So whatever the real outcome is. *Shrug.* Lena won't stop being my goddess and the subject of all my dreams, wet or otherwise, because Tatu is no more. ^_^ If it's all over, well, it was the DAMNEDEST BEST TIME OF MY LIFE.

samegirl
15-03-2004, 02:36
Darje says:

So whatever the real outcome is. *Shrug.* Lena won't stop being my goddess and the subject of all my dreams, wet or otherwise, because Tatu is no more.

And I TOTALLY agree with her! she is and she will be always my goddess...

Lux
15-03-2004, 02:50
this is sad. i actually want to believe t.A.T.u. is over. many bits of information tell me that they aren't over and i just don't believe they are over.

QueenBee
15-03-2004, 04:29
I'm with Lux. Stupid complicated world! :p

thegurgi
15-03-2004, 04:57
i've always enjoyed mind games... but this is getting irritating... i don't want this to be the end, and maybe i can continue to live in denial for awhile, i just want an answer, but i don't see an opening for one....

xena225
15-03-2004, 09:53
Originally posted by forre
Hey, ppl! Mansky is hardly any music expert. Wasn't he in the documentary business? ;) It's just his opinion, that's all.
Thanks for the report, forre and thanks for that comment.

Mansky: Without Shapovalov, they won’t be able to repeat such a success.

Well well well. We'll see about that. :) After seeing episodes 3 and 4 (and even Anatomy to a certain extent), I doubt Mr. Manski ever realized just how instrumental Yulia and Lena are in making tATu such a success story.

My impression after watching these two episodes (and reading this latest report) is that Mr. Manski totally underestimates the girls and their importance for the project. I also have the suspicion that he never really connected with them (maybe it's the fact that he's a middle-aged man, and they are two young women, I don't know). He only scratches the surface. He was, that seems to be painfully obvious by now, always much more interested in Ivan. Ivan Ivan Ivan.

I noticed that whenever he has the chance to show either the girls or Ivan, he shows Ivan. Even if Ivan is just sitting around twiddling his thumbs or doing his nails, while the girls are talking animatedly in the background. Too bad really.

And another pearl of wisdom (HA!) from another middle-aged man:
Ivan did not make any comments on the absence of the Tatu girls except to say "Only stupid viewers need the girls".

:blabla: :laugh:

I think both of those guys will be VERY surprised once they realize just how important Yulia and Lena were and are for the project tATu.

So - don't R.I.P. tATu just yet, folks. :flag:

xena225

Lux
15-03-2004, 11:00
yeah, that ^

Lena410
15-03-2004, 15:34
Thanks forre and Artem!!

well I dont know what to think. Francly Lena and Yulia both acted as if they would want to continue with a different management so where does manski now that they stopped from?

well this is a mess I don't want to think bout right now.

Lena is a goddess and she'll be that even if she's not a memeber of tatu anymore. Gonna love her for that forever :gigi: ^^

Unplugged
15-03-2004, 19:18
And another pearl of wisdom (HA!) from another middle-aged man

xena225, Ivan is not middle-aged yet. :laugh: But yeah, I agree with what you said concerning Mansky. What does HE know? He speaks as Shapovalov is the only producer who can make good music in Russia. pfff

la aurora
15-03-2004, 23:46
well... I don't think this last episode really meant anything. It's not like Mansky showed anything new here. Only things we knew already. This his last phrase “Today, group t.A.T.u. stopped their performances and the recording of their second album. Old songs remain with us.” Is a total bullshit. It sounded like a funeral speech. But 14th wasn't the day when everything stopped. It happened much earlier and we know it. The reason of this last title is pretty obvious. Mansky was working on this documentary and RS for how long already? 1-2 years? Quite a lot. It's something he devoted so much time and effort. But he realises that it's a film. Iven if a documentary one. But still a film... movie... whatever you call it. It should have the final point. And several month ago Mansky promissed this point will be set on the 14th March 2004. Sure that time he believed it was going to end with a second album. Alas! Things went the way they went and although nothing is clear now, Mansky just needed this final point. He's chosen the tragic one. He could say it all was going to change to the best and it would be as true as the claim 'TATU is over' at the moment. Just movies where main hero dies leave more emotions in viewers' hearts. So the guy decided to play this card. I won't write a full report this time as the whole episode consisted of videos mostly. But the last scenes are worth attention I think. Thing looked really touchy and could make a true fan really cry. But it's still was just a montage. Mansky used the phragment from Bonn concert where Yulia and Lena were saying a long good bye. It's was just good-bye for the ppl at concert but put in the contest of everything that goes on now, it sounded like a final good-bye from TATU. After girls said they were going to perform their very last song (for the concert), 'Ya budu' video appeared on the screen as that 'very last TATU song'. And the video for it seemed to suit the whole situation perfectly. Footage from their moments of fame mixed with Lena in metro and Yulia in the bus... and finally those few seconds without any background music where Yulia was standing in some dirty yard looking like a homeless kid. Everything staged and montaged perfectly to cause fans' tears. Look... they were TATU and now just 2 usuall girls... It's was just for the show, guys. Mansky's work is over, more likely, and he just needed to make an interesting ending for his work.

As for his words about TATU having no future... I see where his ideas come from. He said 'TATU have no future without Ivan'. But he didn't say TATU had any future WITH him. The point was 'the girls grew up. they are not those cute tiny schoolgirls that conquired the world claiming they love each other'. This is something that is gone forever. And no producer (Ivan included) can bring those times back. They can record new songs, do whatever they want. But it was THAT trick that worked. TATU weren't just about music and we all know it.

Edit: and staringelf... Mansky is not the only one who believes Ivan was the ONLY producer in Russia. He was the only one to breakthrough to the west and he is one of really few who's work doesn't make one sick. Shap is not the only one? Who else?

nasnedagoniat
15-03-2004, 23:57
Thank you sunny poison. I really love you for your reports and for giving more hope to us English speakers about this situation. *kisses*

Rob
16-03-2004, 00:03
Originally posted by nasnedagoniat
Thank you sunny poison. I really love you for your reports and for giving more hope to us English speakers about this situation. *kisses*
Imagine a "Yeah That"-smiley here. :)

forre
16-03-2004, 00:22
sunny poison, Thank you indeed. :rose:

Unplugged
16-03-2004, 00:29
Originally posted by sunny poison
Shap is not the only one? Who else?

KIPER! :yes:

la aurora
16-03-2004, 00:40
You are all welcomed :D I just thought it's wrong to panic about something not worthy... we have more than enough true reasons to :gigi:

and staringelf, Kiper? Don't get me wrong. I like the girl and songs she writes. But PRODUCER? Producer is someone who 'produces' not just writes music. As far as I know Nichya is not even in russian charts. And many ppl know about the band only thanks for TATU. i know, they reached 11th place in Czech charts or something. But that's not enough to call her a great producer. May be she will be one day. But not now.

haku
16-03-2004, 00:42
Thanks a lot for the report sunny poison :rose:

I know it's not easy to explain things to us. :D

Unplugged
16-03-2004, 00:48
Originally posted by sunny poison
and staringelf, Kiper? Don't get me wrong. I like the girl and songs she writes. But PRODUCER? Producer is someone who 'produces' not just writes music. As far as I know Nichya is not even in russian charts. And many ppl know about the band only thanks for TATU. i know, they reached 11th place in Czech charts or something. But that's not enough to call her a great producer. May be she will be one day. But not now.

She doesn't just write songs, she is also a producer for Nichya. So what if it's not on the charts? It's quality music with quality lyrics, and without any gimmicks. Maybe if she would take off her clothes in a video grabbing her crotch in the rain, it would be in the charts. But would that mean it would have more quality? :rolleyes:

I think Kiper is a very focused, talented songwriter and producer. It doesn't matter how much money you make, if you have quality. If she produced a new album for tATu, it would have quality guaranteed. Maybe it wouldn't be as successful because it wouldn't live on scandals, the project would then live on music - fine with me! :done:

Shap didn't get success by being a fabulous producer with the best music taste - it was the PR that brought him success, and THEN the music. Everybody knows that. Check out the other music produced by him (Katya, 7B, etc) - it's average stuff. He's not a great musician. Kiper is a lot better musician than he is, in my opinion.

la aurora
16-03-2004, 01:08
staringelf, try to understand. I really like Nichya project. But we were talking about Mansky's words. And he was talking about the future of TATu and their futher commercial success. Success - producer's work. Good music - the work of songwriters. It doesn't matter HOW Ivan did what he did. But the main thing is that he made something that seemed impossible before - he made russian band world famous. Many famous producers tried that before. But it never worked. The day Nichya will reach at least half of fame TATU had will be the day I will call her a great 'producer'. Right now she's just a damn talented songwriter for me. May be she will do something worthy in future. She only began working in this field. And I'll be really glad for her in this case.
As for the sound... there are much better sound producers than Ivan here. But even they agree Ivan is the greatest producer in russian music history

forre
16-03-2004, 01:24
sunny poison, Funny things we are discussing here, yes?
1. Interscope took YASSU, remade it to ATTSS and made the group worldwide famous. Their promotion.
2. The concept was Kiper's from the beginning.
3. Ivan developed it and went on with the attitudes and he chose the music. But t.A.T.u. is not only about music (your words).

What else concept can anyone suggest for t.A.T.u.? That was a combination and the link Y&L - Shap - Kiper - Interscope. That's it! The chain is broken. The concept is old. Shapovalov is not enough genious to come up with something else. If he was, he'd have recorded that goddamn second album a year ago.

Unplugged
16-03-2004, 01:32
The concept is old. Shapovalov is not enough genious to come up with something else. If he was, he'd have recorded that goddamn second album a year ago.

I totally agree with that. If he was "the greatest producer of all time", he would have made a new tATu album and make it as successful way before now. Instead, he just kept himself busy with scandals and other useless crap, letting the group's popularity go down.

coolasfcuk
16-03-2004, 01:42
Thanks to all for all the reports :rose:

Originally posted by forre
1. Interscope took YASSU, remade it to ATTSS and made the group worldwide. Their promotion.
2. The concept was Kiper's from the beginning.
3. Ivan developed it and went on with the attitudes and he chose the music. But t.A.T.u. is not only about music (your words).
:done:

Of course, by now it should be clear that it was not only Ivan ... and it was not only Kiper.... it was a group effort! Also... it was all just a lucky break in the right time and place :D ... thank god for Fucking Amal and Britney Spears in school girl uniform :laugh: ... so gathering ideas from here and there... little luck.. lotsa hard work... by a whole team... and we got the Great thing t.A.T.u. born and developed.

If it was only Ivan - 'the genius' - well... tatu wouldnt be dying/dead right now... :heh:

Life goes on.. lets see what happens next ... until then... lets keep singing: "all the things she said... all the things she said...." since that the only greatness left... the group effort... all else was cirrcus going downhill :)

forre
16-03-2004, 01:47
One more thing only. Everyone is physically alive. So, theoretically, everything is possible. At the moment we don't have any release of the second album. At the moment we have Podnebesnaya projects, Documentary made by Mansky and a bunch of speculations.

Kiper, "You can take the shots and put it in any context, cut where you want to reach the desireable effect." <= Think about it.

la aurora
16-03-2004, 01:56
forre, I didn't say Ivan was a geniuos. But he was one of the most luckiest producers for sure. And he was always looking for 'different ways' in producing. Freshness... or at least a wierd combination of re-worked old ideas - this is what made TATU so successful. Ivan just felt the right way. This is something much more professional producers fail to do. They just follow the stream.
1. TATY had to record the first album and cause a real BOOM in russian show-biz to be noticed by Interscope. They made it to East Europe with their russian songs. You can't say it was only Interscope who made them so big. Tho Trevorn Horn is one of the best things that happened to TATU for sure.
2. Although I highly believe Kiper's role in the project was understimated, no need to jump on the opposites. She was as lucky as Ivan. Just one line that came to her head isn't enough to claim she was the one behind the idea. Her idea was a bit different from what TATU finally became (may be hers was better, we'll never know). Besides... well... the fact that Ivan was dating right girls and finding right authors he could screw so easily later only adds to his image of a good producer. To be in the right place and in the right time... yeah?
3. TATU is not only about music. If same song were sang by some other artists and had no gimmick behind, they wouldn't be so popular. Many much better songs were written even in Russia alone. It was the combination of gimmick, Y&L personalities, fine lyrics and nice arragements that made TATU so popular. Take one part away and the thing just wouldn't work. But the music wasn't actually the main thing Ivan did for TATU. He knows few about it actually. The main thing was that he picked right girls, made them look and sound as they do now, thought out the attitudes and story... he also picked the perfect combination of simplicity and deep meaning... simple music harmonies... choruses consisting of 2-3 words... easy to remember even if u are dancing hard along the techno bit. This is all we should give him credit for. Besides, the guy bothered to read a couple of useful books to lean manipulating with minds of the audience.

I wish the guy didn't earn enough money for future living, I wish he didn't get bored with the only real project of his life, I wish he had no money for all those joints coz they changed him in one year. Ivan once had some energy and life in his eyes. Now it's all gone. He looks like a zomby. I don't know if he's like this coz he failed to record 2nd album or he failed to record 2nd album coz he's like this now. Doesn't really matter now. Unfortunately.

Edit: as for his other projects - it was clear from the beginning: the guy is stuck with TATU. He was the perfect producer for THEM only.

freddie
16-03-2004, 02:01
Originally posted by forre
sunny poison, Funny things we are discussing here, yes?
1. Interscope took YASSU, remade it to ATTSS and made the group worldwide famous. Their promotion.
2. The concept was Kiper's from the beginning.
3. Ivan developed it and went on with the attitudes and he chose the music. But t.A.T.u. is not only about music (your words).

What else concept can anyone suggest for t.A.T.u.? That was a combination and the link Y&L - Shap - Kiper - Interscope. That's it! The chain is broken. The concept is old. Shapovalov is not enough genious to come up with something else. If he was, he'd have recorded that goddamn second album a year ago.

OK, maybe they didn't have a future anymore. Maybe it was an old concept. But what pisses me off what that Ivan didn't even TRY. He might as well perpetuate this old image for another year or two with good music. But he did the worse thing possible... he just let it fade all out into obscurity. New image? Why shouldn't new songs be just enough for starters?? He should at least TRY.

It'll be funny how Universal Music will take all this in... will they just stand by and watch how their investment turns into dust? I mean there must have been some money that was given in advance to the girls (and most to Ivan probably), some money for the actual recording of the album that never happened... I mean... we're probably talking millions here. This will not end well for somebody, I'm sure. :/

nasnedagoniat
16-03-2004, 02:03
Originally posted by sunny poison
Besides, the guy bothered to read a couple of useful books to lean manipulating with minds of the audience.

You don't appreciate what you've got until you don't have it anymore. If you're lucky enough to get it back, you love it more than ever before. - Mass Manipulation Rule #13

*Runs straight out the door and into the street. Gets hit by a passing bus before any sense is made out of what was said.*

forre
16-03-2004, 02:04
sunny poison, Ivan & Kiper made t.A.T.u. and t.A.T.u. made Ivan and Kiper producers. Before that the girls were singing kiddies, Ivan is an advert script writer and Kiper a telejournalist. So, the combination brought them a success. Kiper didn't only write the line in ATTSS, she gave the initial idea taken from Fucking Amal. Ivan never said it was his idea and never objected Kiper's statements.

Ivan screwed the team and didn't find a proper replacement. That's his failure.

haku
16-03-2004, 02:13
Originally posted by freddie
It'll be funny how Universal Music will take all this in... will they just stand by and watch how their investment turns into dust? I mean there must have been some money that was given in advance to the girls (and most to Ivan probably), some money for the actual recording of the album that never happened... I mean... we're probably talking millions here. This will not end well for somebody, I'm sure.
If i remember correctly Universal signed Tatu for 3 albums in English. The matter is probably already in their lawyers hands.

la aurora
16-03-2004, 02:19
forre, I'm not trying to argue with you actually. I completely agree that this was the success of the whole team. Just from ur 1,2,3 it seemed u gave Ivan a bit less credits than he deserved. I was him to even think about creating the project and it was him to shoot those videos that made TATU so popular. Kiper could make the whole idea (wich i still doubt. even from her own words, HER TATU vision was a bit different) but without YSSU video TATU would be no ones now.

Ivan screw the team and didn't find a proper replacement. That's his failure.
well... it looks like a failure for us... but is it for him? :gigi: He did what he wanted to do. He got loads of money for that and he screwed everything when got bored. He never claimed to be a professional producer. It's wrong to see him this way and expect anything he never planned to give us. The guy just wanted to shoot videos and play with ppl's mind. He did.

And what goes on now is just another project - the breaking up of TATU. It's as intense as their rising was. And we can't even guess what it will end like. As for Ivan - he doesn't seem to care. He just enjoyes the view. Whatever happens is for good as far as they don't froze at one point.

Unplugged
16-03-2004, 02:23
Kiper didn't only write the line in ATTSS, she gave the initial idea taken from Fucking Amal. Ivan never said it was his idea and never objected Kiper's statements.

Yeah, he didn't say it was his idea, but I think he is very ungrateful to Kiper, making it sound like the only thing she did that was successful for the project was to write the line "Ya Soshla S Uma" - she did WAY more than THAT!

Kiper and Polienko were very special and determinant elements in this project.

forre
16-03-2004, 02:42
sunny poison, Not arguing. Of course not. Debating here, as usual.

The problem is - t.A.T.u. is a brand that sells and not Shapovalov. Oh! Both he and Kiper want to stand in the spotlight and receive the awards! Ooooops! It's the artist's job. The producer will always remain in the shadow. Greed and ignorance ruined him. Oh! Maybe he doesn't care. Here we speak about t.A.T.u. and not Shapovalov's future projects. He'll be as successful as Nichya.

Yes, t.A.T.u. showed that Russia "is able" too. Unfortunatelly, it's a one-hit wonder in the West. Nothing more. Next time a Russian artist makes its way to the charts, Western promotors will think twice whether to work with this artist or not. Many companies not only earned money on t.A.T.u. but lost them too. So, it's not about the group at the end, it's about the nation.

Enough politics. We'll follow the girls for a while now and see where we end up. There are a few recorded songs, those will be released for sure. That's good.

la aurora
16-03-2004, 02:55
well... Ivan was one of those few producers who managed to put himself in the sportlight... :rolleyes: And it was him who made the brand TATU so well-selling. But it went too far. You are right here... now t.A.T.u costs much more then Ivan and his ideas. TATU is not Ivan anymore. But unfortunately, Ivan is TATU. And he won't be anything else no matter how hard he tries.

As for the effect TATU had on Russian show-biz, well... I don't regret what happened. TATU showed not only western promoters that Russia 'is able', but russian artists too. Now they aren't afraid to try. The situation doesn't look so hopeless anymore. And some producers already said that TATU's success helped them a lot in getting nice contracts. Ivan didn't harm much. It will be enough for other russians to give real garantees and show some will to work to convince western promoters to try one more time. At least now russians can expect some attention.

And yeah, lets wait for new songs and see what happens in the next episode of TATU soap opera. :gigi:

Uf... ok... 5 am... have to get up at 8. Phewww!! Hate it!!
*is off to sleep*

forre
16-03-2004, 03:05
Originally posted by sunny poison
well... Ivan was one of those few producers who managed to put himself in the sportlight... :rolleyes:

Uf... ok... 5 am... have to get up at 8. Phewww!! Hate it!!
*is off to sleep*

For what? :ill:

Sweet dreams! :rose:

Lena410
16-03-2004, 07:00
thanks sunny poison for clearing that up!
I really enjoy your reports. ^^

RowerB
16-03-2004, 07:08
Thanks for your report and your views sunny poison.

freddie
16-03-2004, 08:22
Originally posted by sunny poison


As for the effect TATU had on Russian show-biz, well... I don't regret what happened. TATU showed not only western promoters that Russia 'is able', but russian artists too. Now they aren't afraid to try. The situation doesn't look so hopeless anymore. And some producers already said that TATU's success helped them a lot in getting nice contracts. Ivan didn't harm much. It will be enough for other russians to give real garantees and show some will to work to convince western promoters to try one more time. At least now russians can expect some attention.

Some nice effects really, but frankly also some bad ones as well. What will the westerners think about russia's sense for show business, russian arogance, lack of organizing skills, un-professionalism etc. They ceratainly helped in perpetuating a lot of "eastern" stereotypes... all about how people were SUPPOSED to be behind the former iron curtain. And I'm not happy about that at all :|
On the other hand we can't dismiss all the good things of course. But I can't help but wonder what all this could STILL become if it was jsut managed properly. :/

Lena410
16-03-2004, 15:17
freddie, I don't think that they themselves were in any way supporting those stereotypes. They didn't behave differently than some of the western stars do. I'm more appalled at seeing how deeply rooted those stereotypes are.
I don't really think that there was a way in which tatu could have behaved without being bashed. That's the thing that makes me sad. :\

and I agree that they still have a chance if they would be managed properly from now on.

coolasfcuk
16-03-2004, 18:23
freds,
What will the westerners think about russia's sense for show business, russian arogance, lack of organizing skills, un-professionalism etc. They ceratainly helped in perpetuating a lot of "eastern" stereotypes...
What can I say....the sad part is.... usually those things are true... sad... but yeah. There is a reason why some of those Eastern Countries arent getting in the E.U. quite just yet for example (Russia being one of them) and its because.... the stereoptypes are a bit true :none:
arogance, unprofessionalism, lack of skills (still usually), greediness, LAZINESS ... etc...etc... moving slowly toward the change.. but.... still crawling hihi.

Same with t.A.T.u. ... perfect example how those world collapsed - the east ways didnt go too far when it came to the west

Bottom line is - there are still places where people still function with their old mentality of: being lazy, but wanting everything at the same time ..just like THAT.... without wanting to move too many muscles....:laugh: ask me for examples and ill give you LOTS from my country ;)

Mossopp
16-03-2004, 19:30
Why has noone considered the idea of Trevor Horn being tATu's new producer? He did contribute heavily to '200KM/H' and, in case anyone is forgetting, it was Horn who produced the girls most sucessful song to date! The production on the English album is far, far superior to that of the Russian debut.
Of course, I think the chances of Horn taking Shap's place full-time are about a million to one but it just strikes me as odd why none of you have mentioned him. :ithink:

Ruivelle
16-03-2004, 19:35
Originally posted by nasnedagoniat
You don't appreciate what you've got until you don't have it anymore. If you're lucky enough to get it back, you love it more than ever before. - Mass Manipulation Rule #13



... that hint is kinda ...... true .... :none: :eek: :bum: .... anyway , thanks for all the report guys :) .... TATU is still there or not , i'll stick with Yulia and Lena :D :D

Ningyo
17-03-2004, 08:12
Originally posted by sunny poison
It was the combination of gimmick, Y&L personalities, fine lyrics and nice arragements that made TATU so popular. Take one part away and the thing just wouldn't work.

Amen! On the few times I've expressed my opinion about Tatu (not here, though), it's always been something like this.

Things could be better or they could be worse, but I'd never be the same.