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ypsidan04
13-03-2004, 17:08
I just signed the petition for free speech at StopFCC.com and wanted to tell
you about it. They are shooting for 1 million signatures and need all the
support they can get.

As fans of Tatu, we should all know that censorship on television, among
other media outlets, can easily get out of hand these days. For those that
don't know, on January 2, 2003, Tatu were on Jay Leno's late night TV show
here in the US, and their kiss during the ATTSS performance was not shown on
televison. Instead they showed a loooooonng shot of one of the band members.
The same thing also happened when they appeared on Conan O'Brien's show not
too long afterwards. I, personally, will not forgive Jay Leno for this
anytime soon. And since we are on the topic of late night talk show hosts,
the night after Jay Leno, January 3 last year, they were on Jimmy Kimmel's
show. He expressed dismay over the fact that Jay Leno had not shown their
kiss. When they performed then, they would have shown their whole
performance, but maybe as a joke, Y&L didn't kiss that time. It probably was
premeditated that they weren't going to kiss, because Lena had this sly grin
(very cute, btw) when they hugged each other.

Sign the petition now and support free speech: http://www.stopfcc.com

(P.S. - They ask for your city, state, and zip code - implying you have to
live in the US. But I'm pretty sure you can make those up if you don't live
in the States. Just choose a well-known US city and state - New York, New
York perhaps, and then you can go here:
http://www.melissadata.com/lookups/zipcityphone.asp and do a lookup for a
zip code.The only thing that needs to be authentic is your email address,
which they need for verification purposes.)

(P.P.S. - For those who haven't seen them, If you do a search for them, you should be able to download the
talk show appearances I spoke about)

Please consider signing this petition.

QueenBee
13-03-2004, 17:18
Thanks! I'll sign.. this is one of the things that I dislike about America, so much censorship and lack of free speech.

kishkash
13-03-2004, 21:43
so the FCC won't let me be or let me be me so let me c :ithink:

<-- gon sign up for all those censored ppl out there...they're all a bunch of *BEEP*ing *BEEP*ers *shakes fist*

taty994945
13-03-2004, 23:38
Those F*ckin' Crappy C*nts! :laugh:

Unplugged
14-03-2004, 04:57
I've just signed. I hate censorship in American TV too. :yes:

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 06:12
Ok, So DON'T Kill me for this or anything...

I do believe that freedom of speech is an issue in the united states... but not on Television.

For One, we have way to many conservative and liberal yackers all over the place and what IS censored on TV i don't care.

:: this is going to sound weird coming from me :: I see the kids in this country and how they act... They are vulgar, Kids that 11, 12, 13 are like Horny Little Bastards that talk about Sex and swear. I've seen little 5 year olds dressed up like Gangsters. It's RIDICULOUS!!! I for one think that censorship is just a Line... and i don't think that FCC has crossed it that badly.

I wanted to see the Tatu kiss on Jay Leno... but i can understand their reason for cutting it. I used to watch late night shows like that when i was 9 and 10 with my parents and well... you can't deny that this country is MOSTLY conservative Christians who would have had the networks Head for that. I mean, it's not Cable... it's Basic... anyone will bunny ears and a TV could see that... so, I don't think it's as bad as you think....


Thiis coming from a kid who grew up watching the Simpsons, something most parents didn't allow their kids to watch [i can remember being in 2nd grade and being the only kid allowed to watch it]... and i would let a kid watch South Park... it's just... honestly the RAP situation that has saturated our media that makes me think that there should be censorship... if that was let rampant IMAGINE The horror that would come out of that? i would die.... i really would... or i'd move to Canada

QueenBee
14-03-2004, 16:54
Kids that 11, 12, 13 are like Horny Little Bastards that talk about Sex and swear.
OOOPS! :laugh:

Nah, I see your point Greg. I don't know, America seems so different and crazy to me. Maybe because censorship has never been an issue in my country(ies). :dknow:

I didn't agree with the censorship of the Tatu kiss. But I don't know.. was it because a couple was kissing or was it because two GIRLS were kissing? Then again, even if it was censored just because it was a kiss, I would have thought it was weird. But from what I've seen, America is totally different. I don't understand why a kiss is such a big deal. :dknow:

ypsidan04
14-03-2004, 19:00
One of my biggest problems with Jay Leno is that show is on LATE AT NIGHT. Now what excuse do they have when next to no one under the age of 18 is watching that show? They have no excuse at all. :mad: They don't care about "protecting the children" - like two girls kissing is REALLY going to scar them for life. :rolleyes: They're just homophobic. Why the hell did they schedule Tatu to be on at all if they were not going to show that? I mean everyone knows damn well what they do during that performance. They should have known what was going to happen before they even made the schedule. If you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the kitchen.

QueenBee
14-03-2004, 19:58
Uuuh I blame the parents. :p No seriously, their children are THEIR responsibility, not ours. If they don't want their kids to watch Jay Leno then throw out the goddamn tv. :rolleyes: Yes, it's hard to keep children away from "dangerous" things, but I don't think mature people should "suffer" just because parents can't control their own children. Besides, there is nothing wrong with two girls kissing. But this isn't what this is about, this is about censorship in general...

Kappa
14-03-2004, 20:37
It's a kiss. A GODDARNED kiss. If conservative religious people can't stand kisses, they might as freaking well ban MTV from showing "Dismissed", which by the way is way raunchier than watching Yulia in a bath tub and Lena fixing her panties. *Still traumatized.*

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 20:45
Sure it's just a kiss.... but, You have to admit... MOST OF AMERICA ARE CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS... just because WE aren't doesn't mean that it should be ok for their them... and the Executives probably had to make the decision on there own. A LOT of Kids watch Leno, it's not that kid of Raunchy show... i can't think of ANY kind of such as a Lesbian Kiss. If they would have showed that :: without ANY warning :: well, that network would have been indited with complaints... i'm positive.

I'm a not a majority in this country... i have outrageous beliefs on religion and almost everything that gets the norm outraged. I've had people completely turn away from me when i express my beliefs :: how rude, of course, when i just sat there listening to theirs :: ... So i can completely understand.

MTV plays Warnings, MTV isn't Basic, it's a Cable show... and the show is rated accordingly... But Jay Leno is definetly a PG show...

Kappa
14-03-2004, 21:18
Dude, it isn't like me and my girlfriend kissing is a sin. You want conservatism? EVERY TIME the Pope comes here, the city stops working. We fall into disaster every time the guy comes here, because an 85% of Mexicans are Catholic. The rest of us keep the country working while hanging on a thread.

Yet, we create the raunchiest Basic soap operas.

To censor the girls kissing wasn't a smart move: it only showed that that Network does not believe that Americans are intelligent enough to get overthemselves. Do not defend the herding and the stupid, Greg, because seriously they have no excuse.

PowerPuff Grrl
14-03-2004, 21:34
Originally posted by thegurgi
Ok, So DON'T Kill me for this or anything...

I do believe that freedom of speech is an issue in the united states... but not on Television.

For One, we have way to many conservative and liberal yackers all over the place and what IS censored on TV i don't care.

:: this is going to sound weird coming from me :: I see the kids in this country and how they act... They are vulgar, Kids that 11, 12, 13 are like Horny Little Bastards that talk about Sex and swear. I've seen little 5 year olds dressed up like Gangsters. It's RIDICULOUS!!! I for one think that censorship is just a Line... and i don't think that FCC has crossed it that badly.

I wanted to see the Tatu kiss on Jay Leno... but i can understand their reason for cutting it. I used to watch late night shows like that when i was 9 and 10 with my parents and well... you can't deny that this country is MOSTLY conservative Christians who would have had the networks Head for that. I mean, it's not Cable... it's Basic... anyone will bunny ears and a TV could see that... so, I don't think it's as bad as you think....


Thiis coming from a kid who grew up watching the Simpsons, something most parents didn't allow their kids to watch [i can remember being in 2nd grade and being the only kid allowed to watch it]... and i would let a kid watch South Park... it's just... honestly the RAP situation that has saturated our media that makes me think that there should be censorship... if that was let rampant IMAGINE The horror that would come out of that? i would die.... i really would... or i'd move to Canada

Not going kill you, but...

You are right that the freedom of speech and expression should not be a big issue on television. Those rights are dictated by your Constitution and are only applicable to government institutions. Media corporations - oh, who am I kidding? - Corporations that own the media are exempt from that matter of the Constitution solely because they are not (officially) affiliated with the government, they are private entities, they have no obligation to the public other than providing people with goods/services that won't do any harm.

So legally, they are not doing anything wrong. However a question of social responsibility comes into question. The television is the most used communication device used in the States. It is where most Americans get their information on various things. Though the Internet should be replacing the tv in that aspect, most people do not have online access or enough online access to fully depend on it. So that is where social responsibility comes in. Knowing that how much people are tuned in to tv, corporations should be going out of their way to broadcast the most unbiased, inoffensive material they could find. Yes, I understand there is no such thing as complete objectivity, but what is happening now is basically the equivalent of GM distributing some Pinto-like vehicle, knowing what a sh!t-vehicle it is.

But I don't blame corporations for that mess. It is like the tale of the scorpion and the frog. A corporation is a corporation and nothing else. The real failure lies within the government and their deregulating ways. Your government has far too much faith in capitalism. What with the Clear Channel letting go of Howard Stern, the whole Janet's nipple fiasco, and the Tatu kiss, clearly you can see that corporations are crossing the line here. They are so far ahead of the line that that line is now a dot. The position these companies are taking is a moral one. An organization, set out to make as much of a profit as they can taking up a moral position? Deciding for their consumers what is right and what is wrong? They are limiting the publics freedom of choice, freedom to even think! I swear, if and when the dust settles people will begin realizing that Janet's nipple is just a nipple and no WMD. Who cares if children are seeing this, they should be seeing it more often! They should be taught that the nipple is your friend and not your enemy. And so what of Tatu's kiss, by NBC's reasoning then, all heterosexual kisses should be banned as well. All displays of affection shown on television should be prohibited. But why repress these things, so what if it stirs controversey, so what if it is offensive? These kinds of reactions will produce discussions amongst the public where they will decide whether it is suitable or not. By eliminating these things you allow companies to think for you.


Aside from that though, I really see don't see what is wrong the hip-hop or rap. Censoring hip-hop isn't going to change anything. Sex is discussed everywhere, not just from hip-hop. Some women will always dress like hos (at least to you're standard, I say more power to yah!), it isn't like hip-hop is converting anybody. I mean, back in the day - I don't know if some you kids will remeber this - I remember the Spice Girls getting the same treatment, people were saying that they were making youngs girls dress like total skanks.

The only reason why I think hip-hop is dominating the mainstream (about time!) is because it is the only original thing out there right now. Everything is recylced now. Pop sounds as generic as ever, and when it isn't, it sounds like hip-hop. I am fully aware I'm sounding really arrogant when I say this but, hip-hop is around now because it is good. Yes, there are some people who will not agree with this and may even think the sound of rap is repulsive. But I feel the same way about some other artists and even to entire genres of music. No way will I ever think it should be censored though.

I had to get that of my chest, the thought of hip-hop bashing makes the PowerPuff Grrl cry.

PS: Move to Canada? Why? Censorship isn't as evident as it is in the States. In fact, it is near non-existent. And there is hip-hop up here. Maybe you should go to some remote/obscure country like Bhutan or something. I'm sure you won't be offended there.

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 22:36
PS: Move to Canada? Why? Censorship isn't as evident as it is in the States. In fact, it is near non-existent. And there is hip-hop up here. Maybe you should go to some remote/obscure country like Bhutan or something. I'm sure you won't be offended there.

Nah, I just like Canada :) actually I love Canada, especially up in Barie and the Georgian Bay....

The only reason why I think hip-hop is dominating the mainstream (about time!) is because it is the only original thing out there right now.

How the HELL is Hip Hop the ONLY original thing out there? Go and listen to Sigur Ros or L'arc En Ciel or like the Postal Service for some ORIGINAL music. Hip Hop is nothing but recycled samples of OTHER peoples music and most of it just depricates a whole social class of people. Any GOOD Hip Hop isn't in the mainstream... i've never heard anything that i didn't find musically ORIGINAL in Hip Hop or Rap... God, I live in a dorm where Rap comes from BLARING from 6 different directions... they never CLASH cause they're all the same Time Signature and All the Same Key?... yeah, original indeed.


Like i've said, i wasn't a sheltered kid, i knew about all the social world, sex, drugs and everything else. But i didn't learn it from TV... i learned it from my siblings and my parents... where i DO think kids should learn things. But, you know, i'm worried about Kids. They are so fucking Stupid in this country, i know, i've seen them. I've met a few choice exceptions but it just later learn that they're half Japanese, or their parents are from other countries... there is a mentality, At least where I AM, that makes me think that the FCC SHOULDN'T be Stopped. I don't think they've crossed the line....

Ok, i think their Leash should be Loosened on CABLE TV shows... those shows are Rated and Catagorized, you know that litle black rating thing that says like "PG" or "TV-MA" or something. I think that does it. But who is going to rate the shows? the FCC, it's just like the people who rate movies... but i don't think they should be as so far as Completely controlling every aspect. But. On Basic Cable like Fox, ABC, NBC and CBS.... i give them full reign [I dare them to control Fox]

QueenBee
14-03-2004, 22:49
i learned it from my siblings and my parents... where i DO think kids should learn things.
Well, kids won't learn things by censoring the truth. It's kind of weird how swearwords are censored, and yet all kids seem to use them! You write that kids should learn from parents and siblings, so why don't the parents and siblings teach the children? It's their own damn fault, and people who are actually mature enough to watch two girls kissing ( :rolleyes: ) have to face the consequences even though they have done nothing wrong. And somehow it seems like religion is to blame (from what people have written here).. Argh! Don't base everything on religion! Stupid... :rolleyes:

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 22:54
very true...

that's the thing i'm speaking about how i think things should be... that doesn't mean i think people DO. I know it's the opposite, most kids just learn things from word of mouth from other kids.... which is fine.

The Kiss was a decision made by the NBC executives, they made it for a reason, and while i don't really agree with it [and yet i understand it] ... I respect it.

QueenBee
14-03-2004, 23:00
I respect it.
Hehe, not me. :D I have no respect for those bastards.. :p I don't agree with their choice, if these things keep getting censored children will think it's wrong, because even though they aren't seeing it on TV they will hear about it someplace else. And things that are censored are usually bad (well not that much anymore) and so children will draw a conclusion from that, that if two girls were censored while kissing, then it must be wrong.

But I must say I accept their choice, because there's not much more I can do. What is done is done.. and now this petition might help, although we never know, but oh well, it's worth a try.

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 23:04
it's not the TV or censorship that will tell them what's wrong...

a GOOD parent would explain "they didn't want to show something like that, but there is nothing wrong with it" ... it's seriously ALL UP TO the environment you grow up with.

We're all pretty much enlightened people... cause if we weren't we wouldn't be here... but there are millions of others who aren't ... that wouldn't correct a child or would encourage what the censorship implies... Seriously

QueenBee
14-03-2004, 23:07
But how many GOOD parents are there these days? :p I don't know.. It's hard to raise a child and teach them what's right and wrong. I mean, when I did something wrong my mom would hit me and that's how I learned things.. Not. Kids aren't robots you can just install in a certain way. But I don't think censorship is anything positive. Well, I mean, it's good that you don't show certain things but I think it's gone overboard.

they didn't want to show something like that, but there is nothing wrong with it
That's weird.. if there's nothing wrong with it then why didn't they show it? Sheesh. :rolleyes: :p

And no offense. :rose:

thegurgi
14-03-2004, 23:12
a good parent is rare... and they are out there...

and you know that there are just that kind of people out there. In America, the Gay people are fighting for their rights wherein their own elected [kind of] president says things about how being gay is wrong [he didn't really say it, he just implied]... So, that's the kind of people who live here....

I'm a rare breed of American, and the others here are too... but for the most part they're all kind of.... dumb

Kappa
15-03-2004, 01:45
You want the two things that should be censored on TV?

Snuff and porn.

You can get both in the internet, anyway. *Shrug.*

Otherwise, what Tatu did was just showing what happens every day between a man and a woman, a woman and another, or a man and another. Love often comes in the form of kisses. And Janet's nipple? Come on, we all have two. It isn't like I'm going to be traumatized because she half-mooned us.

I mean, you guys, my little sister, who's seven, has been trying to set me up with her friends' brothers. :D Someday, just not right now, she'll learn that her big sister likes women, and some day she'll see me kiss another female. She's not going to be traumatized nor my dad is going to censor that kiss: she's going to expand her knowledge on what her posibilities are as a human. Someday she's also going to be submitted to watching HOURS of Tatu videos next to me. :P (The most acceptable ones, anyhoo.) Tell me if that should be censored?

Unplugged
15-03-2004, 02:04
Tell me if that should be censored?

Of course not :D Everyone has their own mind and can choose what they wanna be or wanna do, if you see violent shows and then go kill someone, or if you say seeing two women kissing makes you a lesbian just because you saw it on TV, you have mental issues. And just because some people are fucked up and copy stuff they see on TV, it doesn't mean we must have censorship on TV.

I think only penetration should be censored. I don't see why nudity should be censored - for example, I heard that in the States they cut nudiity from certain movies so they can show them on TV - why?! Is nudity a shame? Scandalous? Outrageous? Shocking? No, it's completely natural, what's the big deal?
When I was a kid and was watching movies with my parents and there was a scene with full frontal nudity, they'd just be like joking saying "cover your eyes!" - and I'd laugh and watch the whole thing of course, there's no big deal. That way, instead of being a prude, I'm ok with being naked around other people. Am I a pervert? No, I'm just NORMAL! It's not normal to be a prude!

OK, if you censor porn, that's fine with me, pay for it if you wanna watch it, buy some magazines, porn tv channels, websites or whatever. But as far as kissing + nudity is concerned, I don't see what's the big deal.

thegurgi
15-03-2004, 02:10
I guess you just have to live where i live to understand the people. I do, and i just know how they feel... i know their opinions of Tatu [which was, "They are disgusting"]. They believe Evolution is a complete Fraud... they hate people who voice any opinion that isn't theres... This is who the FCC is censoring... not for art, not because they think it's horrible, because they KNOW if they put it on the air they will be hunted down and killed for their blasphamy by these people, they will. I've been torn apart by these people. I KNOW.

Unplugged
15-03-2004, 02:18
Well, sorry, but I don't agree with that. All of that should be put on air and be shown as normal. Of course those prudes would still complain, but they can't complain forever, and if they saw that stuff would go on air no matter what, they'd just get used to it, whether they like it or not.

I think putting that allegedly "shocking" ( :rolleyes: ) stuff on air without censorship and not giving in to the prudes is the right way to contribute to a more open-minded society.

thegurgi
15-03-2004, 02:29
Well, i'll just say, Cable TV Stations should have free reign... i honestly believe that

But there a 4 or 5 channels that you don't have to pay for, those ones i think should have something controlling them... and those ARE ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS and PBS. I don't care, the FCC CAN censor them cause anyone can watch them. There shouldn't be nuddity or swearing on them. But the others... screw it... i've never understood the "Edited For Content" Movies... but that could even be a Ratings Issue... and it's not like Networks have their own censors. I never cared for FOX's censors...


But i mean, isn't there proof about the people of America... LOOK what happened at the super bowl? That's because "most" parents in america DON'T want that stuff on the air... that's why this is happening here.

I don't understand why i care? Do i watch what they censor? No... but i won't sign a petition that ends censorship...

Please Note, this is all coming from an Art Student....

ypsidan04
15-03-2004, 02:33
Originally posted by thegurgi
I've been torn apart by these people. I KNOW.

I really am sorry that we have to share this country with some really stupid closed-minded people. :( Hopefully, we won't have to be governed by stupid closed-minded people much longer. :)

Hang in there. :rose:
Originally posted by thegurgi
But i mean, isn't there proof about the people of America... LOOK what happened at the super bowl? That's because "most" parents in america DON'T want that stuff on the air... that's why this is happening here.

I got news for you:

89 million Americans watched the Super Bowl.

250 thousand Americans called to complain.

Even if you assume that 10 times as many were offended, but didn't bother to complain (2.5 million), that is STILL less than 3% of the viewers. So a huge majority of people who saw the Super Bowl had no problem at all. But because the people who called in made sure to be REALLY pissed off, that's all you ever hear about. The FCC says stuff like "the country has spoken, and they say that this is unnacceptable", but when they say "the country", they mean 3% of Super Bowl viewers - and even a smaller amount of Americans in general. This country may be mostly conservative, but most of those conservatives had no problem seeing Janet Jackson's nipple covering. Her actual nipple wasn't shown at all. She had a small piece of plastic or something covering it.

I saw it as it happened. I was like "Oh, is that what I think it is? That's different. Was that supposed to happen?". And then I forgot about it. I didn't even remember it until I heard people talking on the radio the next morning. It went in one side of my brain, and out the other. :rolleyes: BFD.