Tatu in Podnebesnaya. Releases from 21.02.04 and 22.02.04. [aka Eps. 11 & 12] [Archive]

la aurora

21-02-2004, 22:56

So... here we go. No old footage this time.

It began with repeating on what happened last weekend. LoL. It was funny how some guy said: 'I warned you girls were upset. U should buy them some nice cars' LoL

So... Katya Nechayva was invited to Moscow.

It's not clear what Ivan plans to do. He changes his mind constantly. First he says he's going to leave the songs recordered by Y&L as they are and some Natasha will sing the rest. Then when he talks to BBC reporter, he says he will record the songs himself to show them to Y&L like he always does. he even sang it live. God... that was a awful as usual... V kosmose skvoznyaki... lol. When he was asked what he would do if girls refuse to sing, he said he could record those songs himself and that even that reporter could sing them... doesn't matter who wll if girls refuse. Someone can always do it. He also said the songs were ready... just girls refuse to record them. When asked if he knows what to do Ivan said 'Yes. I know. So we'll see'. Reporter laughed and asked if it was 'I know' or 'We'll see'. Ivan said: "I know that we'll see". LoL
Then discussing the future with one of his managers, Ivan said he had Katya and some other girl to sing the songs. So if they do casting, it would be just for reality show.

Lena's flat was shown with her step father showing a huge poster Interscope sent them as a present... 4 mln records sold worldwide was written there. Lena's lil sister said she loves her sister but she's not a TATU fan.

Big part of the episode was devoted to MTV Asia awards. They couldn't decide what to do. Bobza said they changed decision 5 times. First girls recordered some video to sent to Singapour as noone was going to fly there. Both Yulia and Lena were on the tape. But MTV guys refused to take it. So someone had to go. Yulia said she wasn't going to spend 20 hours in the plane just to spend few hours there and then go back. Later lena was shown preparing to leave... and Yulia was lying in her bed saying she felt pity for poor kid Lena who had to go. That Lena is always like that... that she won't argue or something. And that Yulia thought it was useless to go there in such mood. She said she was sure Lena will be crying in the plane... or may be she even cried at the moment. Coz it was a holiday and she wanted to spend it with her family or bf... and that it was wrong to mock at tem this way. hile Lena was there at the ceremony, Yulia was cutting Pasha's nails and he seemed to absolutely ignore her. LoL

Then Lena was shown in the airport... quite sad... she said she was too kind. And that they (she was talking to Bobza but meant whole TATU camp i think) ruined her life. It was in a half-joking way but still... Then Bobza said they didn't know what to do. And that first both girls said they were not going... then Yulia's mom called and said they were going... then after the car was sent to them she called again and said it was a final decision that they are not going.
So Lena went there, took the award and then was shown in the hotel room... saying how much she wanted to be home... saying hi to lots of ppl... in 'I'm a lil kid missing my mom' way... Then she almost fell asleep. But she called her relatives, friends to tell they got that breakthrough award. Then she was reminded to call Yulia and Vanya. About Yulia she said 'yep... I forgot about her. gonna call'. At Mansky's remark that Yulia must be worried now, she said "Volkova is never worried. She's always calm as a boa'. And she called Ivan to inform him about the reward. She said 'I congratulate you. Are u glad?' But it was a short talk as MTV guys were waiting for an interview or something...

Yulia's dad was wondering what Ivan could offer to get girls back, but Yulia said no matter what excuses and promises he makes, Lena and her don't want to work with him anymore.

Belochka was played. it was recordered by lena. Not even half as bad as it could be. Everyone said it was going to be a hit and that they had the 1st song for the new album. Ivan said they had 8 already.

Then Nechaeva was talking about the future of TATU. She said without Ivan there would be no TATU and that leaving Vanya and trying to save TATU had no sence. They needed to change everything or even go solo. She also said if Vanya finds new girls for TATU it wouldn't work. She also added that 1 year ago there were plans to put her in TATU. That she even had to cut her hair but nothing happened.

Yulia seems not to like Katya. She says that girl tries to look like her, that whatever she did with her look, next day Nechaeva had it as well. LoL

Last scene was pretty *cough* interesting. Two absolutely naked girls... wearing only headphones standing near the mic and posing for the camera. Everyone around watching. No comments here.

Final subtitle said: 'TATU in Podnebesnaya is about to finish. Ivan's head is full of plans but we'll talk about it tomorrow'. That's it.

Edit: lol i forgot some cool detail. DJ Groove came to Ivan and brought him some track. It was a music with Y&L's voices over it saying what a bastard Ivan really was... lol. Sounded cool... those phrses were quite in rythm. And the main thing: Ivan liked it and asked for the full version. lol What's going on in this guy's head?

Unplugged

21-02-2004, 23:17

Thanks once again for your report, sunny poison :rose:

And thanks to Kate for the mp3 too :rose:

He also said the songs were ready... just girls refuse to record them

Yeah. The songs are ready - but the girls won't sing them. Just a 'small' detail :gigi: :laugh:

Yulia said she wasn't going to spend 20 hours in the plane just to spend few hours there and then go back.

How professional :rolleyes: "No, I won't go to Singapore to receive an award from my fans who are dying to see me. Who cares about fans, I'll just stay here with Pasha cutting his nails" :rolleyes:

Ningyo

21-02-2004, 23:21

Originally posted by katbeidar
Added "Belochka" ["Squirrel"] MP3 to the post with lyrics.

Thanks for the link Kate, I'm downloading it already. :done:

ETA:

And thanks Hare, for getting us the mp3. :D

Kate

21-02-2004, 23:22

staringelf, thank Hare for the mp3. I just copy and pasted the link, and Hare recorded the song, converted it into an mp3, uploaded it to her server, and did a whole lot more then me. :rose: Thank you, Hare. :rose: :rose:

la aurora

21-02-2004, 23:25

staringelf, yeah... professional... and her first and main argument was: 'I don't want to' :rolleyes:

And Kate, Hare, thanks for mp3. I actually liked the song. It's quite touchy...

btw, i forgot something in my post so I edited it.

thegurgi

21-02-2004, 23:36

Hare, I Love You!

Thanks Everyone

dare2dream28

21-02-2004, 23:38

Thanks hare and kat for the MP3/link. :) And thanks sunny poison for the summary.

Now, is it me, or does anyone else see something wrong with this:

... and Yulia was lying in her bed saying she felt pity for poor kid Lena who had to go. That Lena is always like that... that she won't argue or something. And that Yulia thought it was useless to go there in such mood. She said she was sure Lena will be crying in the plane... or may be she even cried at the moment

:none:

Kate

21-02-2004, 23:39

sunny poison, thank you for the report. It was interesting. Lol. It's a pity that no one will upload Shaps singing. :gigi:

dare2dream28, what's wrong with that? Julia is always rude.

Unplugged

21-02-2004, 23:44

About the song... I love Lena's voice in it, and the melody seems to be nice. With those lyrics, the song could have been a disaster, but they created it in a really nice way. And let me say this just one more time: I LOVE LENA'S SEXY SOOTHING VOICE :love: :yes:

thegurgi

21-02-2004, 23:58

i for one was VERY suprised at this song... it's not how i thought it would be. With a bit more work i think it could be really good... but that's just me.

Igor

22-02-2004, 00:12

katbeidar, :blabla:

Song here:
http://hare-tatu.narod.ru/download/belochka.mp3
(TatySite.net Users only)

Thanks to hare.

Kate

22-02-2004, 00:16

Igor, :bebebe:

:rolleyes:

You are acting like a child.

Certainly. But I from thread do not remove the messages.

Ya ubrala ih potomu chto ya iz nih vyrezala ssylki i slova k pesne dlya novoi temy, durak. Kakoi smysl ih imet' tut? A zanovo vse pechatat' mne len'. Ya chto, dlya zabavy udalyayu soobscheniya?

cirrus

22-02-2004, 00:26

That song is....

I'm with thegurgi, surprised. I love the bells and pad in the background...it's very airy and open. The vocals sound strange though... it's so calm.

--------------

I can see the video now: since the girls won't appear, Ivan will use clips of squirrels out in the wild....eating nuts....chasing other squirrels....like one of those nature programs :D

thegurgi

22-02-2004, 00:31

i really like it, it makes me want them to finish this album...

I can see some harmony being added to it and other greatness.... but i really like it.

Kate, did a Tatysite member really write it? Could they explain the whole Squirrel/Bunny thing?

:: and could you please put those lyrics back up too ?? pretty please ::

dare2dream28

22-02-2004, 00:32

Wow. Lena's voice sounds *excellent*! It flows very well and the rhythm is nice too. I have to laugh because the only words I understand are devochki & malchik. My roomie, the only person off-line that knows I listen to tatu said it would be funny as hell to try and see me have a conversation in Russian with someone. She's like "The only words you'd be saying would be describing fake lesbians and then something to do with a robot and simple moves." :p

Kate

22-02-2004, 00:32

thegurgi, I think he explained it on the Russian forum. I'll go check it out later, and translate it. Ok?

thegurgi

22-02-2004, 00:35

That's ok, Kate, take your time, and thanks in advance!

he must be pretty amazed to hear it, i know i would.
He should be proud too... it's quite amazingly soft and powerful

:: i've listened to it for a ten minutes ::

Kate

22-02-2004, 00:37

I didn't like the song. No suprises there. Lol. :p

Igor

22-02-2004, 00:41

May be a song Katya Nechaeva sings. :dead:

haku

22-02-2004, 00:45

Thanks sunny poison for the detailed report! :rose:

Thanks hare for the file, and thanks katbeidar for the early details.

I just listened to Belochka and i didn't really like it but that's not surprising, Tatu has always been at the limit of what i like, this is just way out of it.

And sunny poison? So they showed Lena's new apartment, the one she bought? Is it as small as they said in the article?

angeljas01

22-02-2004, 02:40

Thanks for the report Sunny!
Thanks Hare and Kat for the mp3!

haku

22-02-2004, 02:51

Originally posted by dare2dream28
Now, is it me, or does anyone else see something wrong with this:
Yeah, i know what you mean, we've already seen that Yulia often orders Lena around. Lena is too nice, she doesn't like conflict, and to avoid arguing she ends up doing what she's told, even when she doesn't feel like it. Lena doesn't seem too happy about her situation in the band right now, the rumors she wants to leave to be on her own seems more and more plausible, and seeing how Yulia is treating her, i'm hoping that she's going to do it soon.

You have to say something about Yulia, she's honest in a weird way. She can't be bothered to go to the awards and she simply says it. She thinks Lena is weak and she says it as well.
Whatever the RS is, this kind of statements are going to leave wounds. :none:

denial

22-02-2004, 03:20

:eek: .. I CAN'T BELIEVE YULIA DID THAT!!

...and I love that song Belochka .... it sound sad .. and touching ...

Edit:
Here the translation with translator. can't help much: I get the words from Veter post at Russian site.

Белочка

А если нам убежать
И не обозначиться
Пробелы не нажимать
Последний не спрячется
Размазаны красками
Тупыми распросами
Растанемся с масками
И мы станем взрослыми.
Но трудно быть мальчиком, если ты девочка,
Трудно быть девочкой, если ты мальчик
А... а может я буду белочкой
А... а может ты будешь зайчиком

And if to us to escape
And to not be designated
Blanks to not press
Last will not hide
Are smeared by paints
Stupid распросами
Растанемся with masks
And we become adults.
But it is difficult to be the boy, if you the girl,
It is difficult to be the girl, if you the boy
А.. And I can shall белочкой
А.. And you can will зайчиком

:lol: .. So this is the Squirrel song? LoL LoL .. I thought I said somewhere before that this song could be a sad and touching song ...and IT IS!!! LoL LoL ..just the lyric is weird. :none:

Agree with thegurgi ...after some touch up it'll be a good song. :done:

Who sing this ? Lena ?

OT:
Anyway.. I am very thankful this morning .. I woke up.. check tatysite .. and there .. my wish came true .. was really-really wanting to hear this song. And the melody is beautiful.

Edit 2:
::::criessss::::: its so nice......
Seriously... this song is like .... enchanted.... I've been listening over and over .....

sings.....'a...a mozet ti budesh zashjekam' ....mmmmm... LoL LoL ..and that was suppose to mean 'you'll be the bunny'? .. LoL .. LoL .. but its nice !!!

Kate

22-02-2004, 04:31

The lyrics are here:

If we run away
And not be marked
Not push blanks
The last one won't hide
Washed away paints
With silly questions
Part with masks
We become adults.
But it's hard to be a boy if you are a girl,
And it's hard to be a girl if you are a boy
Oh... maybe I'll be a squirrle
Oh... maybe you'll be a bunny

:D

denial

22-02-2004, 04:34

Thank you Kate ... really appreciate that translation. :) for you :rose:

Congratulation and good luck on your 'university' start. Woo .. thats tomorrow!

THANK YOU HARE!!
...millions roses for you .. :rose:

dollparts3000

22-02-2004, 04:54

It's o.k. I think it will sound great once they mix in the musical track but the tone sounds a lot like Nich'ya. They need a song that is really upbeat like Malchik Gei, Not Gonna Get Us, or All the Things She Said, or Prostie Dvizhenia. They can't all be depressing and slow. There has to be a high energy song. NVNB is the only one on the cd that has energy. What do you guys think? The CD needs atleast 2-3 more songs with a lot of energy!!!!!!!!!!!!

denial

22-02-2004, 04:59

Originally posted by dollparts3000
What do you guys think? The CD needs atleast 2-3 more songs with a lot of energy!!!!!!!!!!!! [/B]

what ever you want, think and wish for TATU.... type here at tatysite .. and they'll come true ..

Originally posted by Igor
May be a song Katya Nechaeva sings. :dead:
Then.. I like this girl already .. she sounded almost like Lena.

[speculation]
Or the voice sound a bit like between Lena and Yulia .. then for Katya to continue the album .. would be to tell the story about TATU.

haku

22-02-2004, 05:11

Originally posted by dollparts3000
What do you guys think?
I think i couldn't care less about new songs or a new album when i see the state of the band right now!

The girls don't go to Podnebesnaya anymore and refuse to sing.

Yulia is a total bitch who cares about nothing except herself and diss Lena.

Lena looks as happy as if she was going to the dentist.

Ivan has no clue about what he's doing... "I'll record the songs myself... No! I'll hire new girls... No! I'll get Katya to record them... No! Let's do it with Natasha instead... Or maybe i'll just jump out the window and fly like a pigeon..." :rolleyes: Somebody shoot the guy!

But yay! We have a half demo with Lena alone (or Katya?) singing meaningless lyrics. :none:

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 05:11

Wow Denial seems to be flying on clouds.. :rose:
I'm downloading the song..it's taking ages! Lol. *Hugs Hare as a thanks for the file*

denial

22-02-2004, 05:23

For Febrika ..

Big part of the episode was devoted to MTV Asia awards. They couldn't decide what to do. Bobza said they changed decision 5 times. First girls recordered some video to sent to Singapour as noone was going to fly there. Both Yulia and Lena were on the tape. But MTV guys refused to take it. So someone had to go. Yulia said she wasn't going to spend 20 hours in the plane just to spend few hours there and then go back. Later lena was shown preparing to leave... and Yulia was lying in her bed saying she felt pity for poor kid Lena who had to go. That Lena is always like that... that she won't argue or something. And that Yulia thought it was useless to go there in such mood. She said she was sure Lena will be crying in the plane... or may be she even cried at the moment. Coz it was a holiday and she wanted to spend it with her family or bf... and that it was wrong to mock at tem this way. hile Lena was there at the ceremony, Yulia was cutting Pasha's nails and he seemed to absolutely ignore her. LoL

Then Lena was shown in the airport... quite sad... she said she was too kind. And that they (she was talking to Bobza but meant whole TATU camp i think) ruined her life. It was in a half-joking way but still... Then Bobza said they didn't know what to do. And that first both girls said they were not going... then Yulia's mom called and said they were going... then after the car was sent to them she called again and said it was a final decision that they are not going.

I definitely could understand this situation very much .. :laugh:

haku

22-02-2004, 05:40

Well, i don't really see what's funny here...

Yulia is acting like a total diva and she's mocking Lena, and Lena is realizing that she's being used by the others but she's too nice to say no.
The comment Yulia does about Lena crying in the plane is really disturbing, and Lena seems to really be sad because she wanted to be with her family and boyfriend on that holiday instead of being alone on the other side of the planet. :none:

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 05:46

Yeah.. To Yulia: :bebebe: I agree with Haku, Yulia is acting like a total diva and it looks like she doesn't even care about Lena's feelings. She even makes fun of the fact that Lena will be crying on the plane.. What kind of a friend is she? She doesn't seem to give a sh*t about us because she doesn't want to "waste" time on an airplane, see her fans who have been waiting, and go back quickly.

I still think they're a couple and that they have sex three times a day. :laugh:

denial

22-02-2004, 06:12

Well, i don't really see what's funny here...

Originally posted by QueenBee
Yeah.. To Yulia: :bebebe: I agree with [b]Haku, Yulia is acting like a total diva and it looks like she doesn't even care about Lena's feelings. She even makes fun of the fact that Lena will be crying on the plane.. What kind of a friend is she? She doesn't seem to give a sh*t about us because she doesn't want to "waste" time on an airplane, see her fans who have been waiting, and go back quickly.

huh? LoL ..well I'm sorry .. but ..diva? LoL .. okay.. sorry .. well .. but .. they are TATU .. they suppose to be like that.. what you expect them to be like ? Roxette? Lol

Remember, Mi TATU! Mi TATU! ... and Yulia is very much real and modest than I've ever thought. I guess they always meant what they said. I won't comment on Lena .. it wont be pleasant .. beside I love her too... :)

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 06:19

denial, huh? In that case.. I don't think I wanna be a Tatu fan if they are supposed to ignore their fans because they don't want to "waste their time". :bebebe: It was fun before, the girls seemed to be loving their fans, but they never gave a crap about the interviewers.. but they seemed to really enjoy being with their fans and signing t-shirts and giving out autographs. Now.. Yulia wants to stay with Pasha cutting his nails instead of visiting her fans and the Mtv Asia Awards. Lena really wanted to stay too, but she went because she knew the fans really wanted to see them. We got the report on the awards, and people were sad that Yulia didn't attend. Some were even worried that she was sick again, but no, she was at home cutting Pasha's nails because she didn't want to waste time in the airplane. :bebebe:

I got the song now, and I honestly thought it would really suck but I like it quite alot. I'm really worried there won't be no album though. Lena sings great but what I've heard from Yulia before she didn't seem okay. The girls don't even want to do this it seems, and Ivan comes up with the strangest ideas. Exchange the girls for other girls who are supposed to play Tatu? I donno. I don't think this seems fake anymore. Before when there were scandals and such, I would think that Tatu camp were sitting somewhere laughing their asses off at us for believing such stupid things but now the situation seems serious.

haku

22-02-2004, 06:23

Originally posted by denial
they are TATU
They are no longer Tatu, they broke the contract, remember?

Yulia is very much real and modest
Modest?!? What are you talking about! Yulia is extremely arrogant! LOL
All she had to do was sit her ass in a plane and go see some of her fans, but no! That's beneath her! She doesn't want to waste her precious time on the fans, cutting Pasha's nails is much more important... :bebebe:

I won't comment on Lena .. it wont be pleasant
Go on! What do you have to say against her? You also think she's weak? She should have done like Yulia? Said "fuck you" to the fans, didn't go to Singapore and stayed home to cut someone's nails? :rolleyes:

thegurgi

22-02-2004, 06:59

They are no longer Tatu, they broke the contract, remember?
when exactly did they do that? they asked to be released from it, but did they actually get what they asked for. I think we would have heard something like that.

Ewa, don't worry i have good news just for you

Kate

22-02-2004, 07:08

QueenBee, totally agree with you and haku. The fans have been voting for Tatu, not taking notice what time of night or day it was, they voted for the band they loved not because they enjoyed clicking the "vote" button again and again, but because they love Tatu. And Julia just turned her back on the fans, and said "Oh, sorry, the flight's too long". :rolleyes: What a rude person she is. I am disgusted.

dare2dream28

22-02-2004, 07:08

Originally posted by QueenBee

I still think they're a couple and that they have sex three times a day. :laugh:

OMG LMAO. QueenBee, you crack me the hell up. :laugh:

Seriously though, I agree with QueenBee and haku. That was so rude of Yulia to just sit at home like that and freaken make fun of Lena! I mean hellloooo she better be glad Lena keeps to her commitments or else they may have even more pissed off fans. If Yulia was any kind of friend she would've hopped on that plane right beside Lena and gone to do her job. Right now I must say that I am not impressed with Miss Volkova's actions. :none:

dollparts3000

22-02-2004, 07:19

I think Yulia and Lena are dealing with a lot of pressure right now, more so than most teens. They are approaching 20 and becoming adults. It's scary!!! 2 yrs. ago, when I was 19 I was petrified! Everyone also refers to them as being adults but they might not feel like adults yet. On top of that, they have to deal with stardom and having little privacy.

They should be grateful to fans and I think that Lena is . It would be nice to see them at more award shows. They have to wake up though and take advantage of all the oporutnity that they have in order to stay on top. I mean, when is this opportunity going to come along for them again?

I understand that they have not had the most normal teenage life but they do owe the money they make to their fans and should appear in the spotlight. But then again, they were dedicating so much time to this show and were planning to dedicate a lot of time to the process of recording a new album!

On another note, maybe Valentine's day is really important to Yulia and she wants to have a few normal days a month where she can have a somewhat normal life. I mean, would you really want to go on a flight (how many hours 8-12) to a country for a few hours and then come back on Valentine's day!!!!!? Sure, she could have taken Pasha but maybe she wasn't feeling well. Last time she went to Japan, she got a fever!!! Now, that's got to suck! Ofcourse, this time it was Singapore.

The recording process might also feel more clausterphobic this time around. I mean, there last album was probably more exciting, because it was there first album!!! This time around, it might be more work because they have to come up with an album that will be able to compete with their first one! They also have to do it live!!!! That's probably way more stressful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thegurgi

22-02-2004, 07:23

i agree it was wrong of Yulia to do that, but as for her making fun of Lena, well... even with your closest friends, sometimes you just know them so well it's easy to take a punch or too, and that was a prime example. I've done it myself, so i dunno if i'm that upset.

I voted for them, and i think she should have gone.
:: slaps Yulia's hand with a ruler ::

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 07:29

Oooh I completely forgot it was Valentine's Day that day! Well, I could understand that Yulia would want to stay with her boyfriend on Valentine's Day because she wants to spend it with him. But it seems like that wasn't the case, but that she didn't want to go because she didn't want to waste time on an airplane. If she would just have said "I want to be with my boyfriend, it's Valentine's" then I understand... but she didn't.

Kate

22-02-2004, 07:34

QueenBee, Lena had plans with her boyfriend, family and friends as well, she still went to Singapore, didn't she?

kishkash

22-02-2004, 07:35

Yulia was cutting Pasha's nails and he seemed to absolutely ignore her

LMAO!!! for some wierd reason that's HILARIOUS...wot a thing to do :hmmm:

Y are they making such a task out of going to recieve an award...they should be happy/grateful that they are still WINNING awards for a 2 year old cd and that ppl still remember them!!

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 07:37

katbeidar, yeah, and as I said, I really think it's great that she did that because it shows how much she cares for her fans. But if she would have said she wants to stay with her family etc. then I would have understood that. Uh.. what are you implying? :ithink: I think Lena is the good one here :p

haku

22-02-2004, 07:43

Well said katbeidar and dare2dream28

Originally posted by QueenBee
If she would just have said "I want to be with my boyfriend, it's Valentine's" then I understand... but she didn't.
Exactly. I remember last week when people reported that Yulia was not in Singapore, some people got woried and said "I hope the poor girl is not seriously ill again, she wouldn't miss such an event without a good reason".

When we had that article saying that Yulia stayed in Moscow to spend Valentine's day with Pasha, some people were like "That's bullshit! Yulia cares too much about her fans to do that!" Yeah right! :rolleyes:

And like QueenBee said, it would have been ok in that case, but it's not even that! She just couldn't be bothered, the flight was too long and she preferred staying in Moscow doing basically nothing.

And about them being stressed by the recording! Hello? They haven't set foot in Podnebesnaya for 3 weeks!

During that time, Lena found the time to look for an apartment and buy one, and she also went to Singapore (even though she wanted to spend time with her boyfriend too)!

What did Yulia do? She cut Pasha's nails. :rolleyes:

showMElove2

22-02-2004, 08:50

As much as I hate to "bash" Yulia, I find it hardly undavoidable at this point. I know that they are going through some changes professionally but I feel that the obligation to their fans is still there, and I think Lena has grasped this concept, while Yulia has not. In her acceptance speech, Lena made sure to thank the fans for their support which Im sure is the reason she showed up. I think that Lena has been made to go solo once to many times (for one reason or another) and at this time when things seems to be falling apart, Y&L should be sticking together. So if Lena did not stay at home with her family and boyfriend, neither should Yulia. Instead of staying home predicting that Lena was crying she should have been on that plane with her! Some people might see this as a weakness on Lena's part, but I admire her for giving in and going when she clearly didn't want to, shows her maturity. I always admired Yulia's feistiness when it was directed towards others who were negative about the duo but now it just shows lack of respect. Makes me wonder if there will be a future for Y&L or just L without the Y.:dknow: I guess I'll stayed tuned as the drama continues but if the RS show ends, will there still be news about the girls:confused:

denial

22-02-2004, 08:52

Originally posted by QueenBee
I got the song now, and I honestly thought it would really suck but I like it quite alot. I'm really worried there won't be no album though.

I understand that :) .. yeah ..thats from the same producer of song Malchik Gei .. . as mush as he tried to look as normal as human .. he can't help it .. can't he .. his touch is magic .. ;)

xena225

22-02-2004, 09:15

Thank you for your report, sunny poison! :rose:

[i]Originally posted by sunny poison
It began with repeating on what happened last weekend. LoL. It was funny how some guy said: 'I warned you girls were upset. U should buy them some nice cars' LoL
They do seem very upset indeed. I wonder what really made them take those legal steps against Ivan in the end. It sounds more and more not just like creative/professional differences, but something on a more personal level as well. They seem hurt and angry, or else there wouldn't be such an impasse.

Originally posted by sunny poison
It's not clear what Ivan plans to do. He changes his mind constantly. First he says he's going to leave the songs recordered by Y&L as they are and some Natasha will sing the rest. Then when he talks to BBC reporter, he says he will record the songs himself to show them to Y&L like he always does. he even sang it live. God... that was a awful as usual... V kosmose skvoznyaki... lol. When he was asked what he would do if girls refuse to sing, he said he could record those songs himself and that even that reporter could sing them... doesn't matter who wll if girls refuse. Someone can always do it. He also said the songs were ready... just girls refuse to record them.
Well, it's great the songs are ready, but he does not seem to get the seriousness of the situation, if he expects the girls to just waltz back into the studio and start recording songs like nothing ever happened. Does he not reflect on the situation? Does he just repress the reality of it all?

Him saying he could record the songs himself is hilarious. He sounds a bit like a petulant child here, pouting and coming up with weird "solutions" to the impasse. The idea that he can just replace Yulia and Lena with two other girls shows to me that he is a bit desperate - I mean, he waited long enough with the actual producing/recording of the album, so what's the hurry now? Is it possible that he is under a lot of pressure from Neformat/Universal and does not want to leave the impression that he is at the mercy of Yulia and Lena?

Originally posted by sunny poison
So someone had to go. Yulia said she wasn't going to spend 20 hours in the plane just to spend few hours there and then go back. Later lena was shown preparing to leave... and Yulia was lying in her bed saying she felt pity for poor kid Lena who had to go. That Lena is always like that... that she won't argue or something. And that Yulia thought it was useless to go there in such mood. She said she was sure Lena will be crying in the plane... or may be she even cried at the moment.
Oh, does that mean the dni.ru story about them not getting visas was wrong after all? :cool:

I would like to see this scene, before I really comment on it. A lot depends on how Yulia said this. Was she sympathetic? Her saying that she felt pity because Lena had to go, seems to imply this. She knows that Lena is sad because she can't spend the holiday with her loved ones, even talks about her crying on the plane. Just reading these words, I get a feeling Yulia might feel some pangs of conscience there for not accompanying Lena, but as I said - I'd have to see it to further comment on this.

Let me just add that I can understand both of their decisions - Yulia's decision not to go - Lena's decision to go (though she probably needed to be emphatically persuaded by those in charge.)

Here's my opinion on the MTV Asia thingie: As much as it's awesome for fans to see them in person at such events like the MTV Asia Awards, shouldn't fans also support and respect their decision not to go in a situation like this? Yulia and Lena are in a tricky, difficult situation right now. The project tATu is NOT going smoothly. It's NOT business as usual. Both of the girls deal with the enormous pressure (and their own frustration) according to their temperaments - Yulia is defiant and forceful, Lena is accommodating and kind. I respect and I can understand both their decisions, and I personally don't blame Yulia for not going to Singapore in this present situation.

Originally posted by sunny poison
And that first both girls said they were not going... then Yulia's mom called and said they were going... then after the car was sent to them she called again and said it was a final decision that they are not going.
The respective parents don't seem to make it really easier for the girls.

Originally posted by sunny poison
At Mansky's remark that Yulia must be worried now, she said "Volkova is never worried. She's always calm as a boa'.
I love that quote. Yulia is so cool, so in control, and I have the feeling Lena envies that a bit. Reminds me of what she said in Japan last year about Yulia being circumspect and decisive. It's almost like she's saying: And that's why SHE is in Moscow, and I have to sit in this hotel room all by my lonesome self.

Originally posted by sunny poison
Yulia's dad was wondering what Ivan could offer to get girls back, but Yulia said no matter what excuses and promises he makes, Lena and her don't want to work with him anymore.
I wish we would learn more about what is really going on inside the girls' minds and how they really assess the situation. Ivan saying the album is ready to be recorded and that it all depends on Lena and Yulia, is only one side of the coin. "Too little, too late, Ivan" - always comes to mind. This won't go away by ignoring it. I'd really like Manski to try and get to the bottom of this from the girls' point of view. Does anybody here really know what made Yulia and Lena take that step, what really led to this impasse?

Originally posted by sunny poison
Belochka was played. it was recordered by lena. Not even half as bad as it could be. Everyone said it was going to be a hit and that they had the 1st song for the new album.
That song is simply beautiful. Lena's voice goes straight to the heart, there is so much emotion. Much like my first reaction to Nichya.

Originally posted by sunny poison
Ivan said they had 8 already.
8 recorded songs already? Wouldn't that mean most of the album IS in fact recorded? When exactly did that happen, I wonder? Another contradiction, more Ivan-babble, or the truth?

So, where does that leave us? Actually, not really any wiser regarding tATu's future than before. The information we get is confusing, sometimes contradictory. I wish Manski would just hand a camera to Yulia and Lena and let them tell THEIR story. Why doesn't he? I have a feeling things would possibly make a lot more sense if we saw Lena's and Yulia's unedited point of view instead of getting so much from Ivan's side.

We'll see.

xena225

freddie

22-02-2004, 13:17

Hey guys!! Aren't you being a little harsh on Yulia? She's acting like 80% of the stars would aftr 3 years of fame... cold, arogant, moody... it comes with the territory. And we all knew damn well the girls were more then capable of the rude beahaviour - remember the US tour. Oh that's right!! We all called it "punkish attitude" then. ;)
What's changed by now, anyway? We can still call it like that. Yes she is rude and dismissive. But that's a part of what makes Yulia herself. We can take it or leave it. She sure doesn't give a damn what we think of her. Lets not worry ourselves. Lol

haku

22-02-2004, 13:38

Originally posted by freddie
She's acting like 80% of the stars would aftr 3 years of fame... cold, arogant, moody... it comes with the territory.
Tatu are supposed to be different. If Yulia is like any bitchy American pop star, what's the point?

What's changed by now, anyway?
What's changed is that their career is going down the drain, the hardcore fans are all they have and they're losing even that. Yulia's diva attitude is no longer endearing, it's just tiring now.

She sure doesn't give a damn what we think of her. Lets not worry ourselves.
Agreed. And you can bet that a lot less fans will vote for Tatu at the next MTV award show (if they are nominated ever again that is). Why care to vote since Yulia thinks those award ceremonies are useless?

Unplugged

22-02-2004, 14:40

Hey guys!! Aren't you being a little harsh on Yulia? She's acting like 80% of the stars would aftr 3 years of fame... cold, arogant, moody

...And you think that's ok? Just because she has 'fame' (in her country, that is, because in the West nobody knows her besides tATu fans)?
Just because she's famous she gets to be a total bitch and it's completely ok? I don't think so.

She obviously doesn't give a shit about her fans, while Lena does. When Lena was sitting in her hotel room alone in Singapore, she wasn't being weak, she was being strong and professional. Yulia is the one who is weak because she let her ego dominate her so much. That's what I call weakness.

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 14:46

Go staringelf. :done: I think Lena wouldn't go if she was able to say no, but she lets people tell her what to do. At least it sounded like that. :ithink: Anyway, what a shame if this is all a scam (;)) and they're lying because in that case Ivan does all this to get attention from people, but the complete opposite thing is going on. Nobody really gives a fcuk anymore and more and more people consider Tatu a big joke. In that case the only thing that can save the project is the new album (it looks like it, at least). *Prays that the album will be good* After all this time of waiting, we deserve a good album. :D

Lena410

22-02-2004, 14:56

honestly I don't care whether yulia went to those awards or not..I think that it's awsome that Lena went but I wouldn't be mad or disappointed if she hadn't. *I* voted for them for days too but I know that they are humans too.

freddie, I agree with you. They are behaving the way they did all those past three years and suddenly their behaviour is wrong. Although they never changed.

haku, as far as I see it a lot less fans would be voting even if Yulia had gone there. Remeber when they went to those World Awards? They came but still there was something people found to critize. I'm starting to believe that they right now can't do anything that would be viewed thourougly positive.

haku

22-02-2004, 15:05

Originally posted by QueenBee
In that case the only thing that can save the project is the new album
At this point, when i see how Yulia is treating Lena, i'm kinda hoping she's going to say "fuck it" and go on a solo career. She's doing a lot of things alone already since Yulia can't be bothered, so she might as well leave and be on her own. She'd be happier and she wouldn't have Yulia bitching on her back.

As for Yulia, if she thinks her future is in doing manicures, good for her. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lena410
Remeber when they went to those World Awards?
The World Awards? Well, yes, they went there but they refused to take the awards (they won three but didn't take them). Same old story.

Rob

22-02-2004, 15:19

The World Awards? Well, yes, they went there but they refused to take the awards (they won three but didn't take them). Same old story.
Let's not forget that they went there in order to receive their 3 Awards and suddenly weren't allowed to present their show as planned even though the people in charge at the WMA's had given their permission before but suddenly refused.
This wasn't tATu's failure as some "suit" got afraid of them. :cool:

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 15:25

*I* voted for them for days too but I know that they are humans too.
Yeah I never thought of that. :laugh: Nah, but seriously, of course they are human, but they don't have regular jobs. I mean, if I worked at an office and decided not to come because I wanted to spend time with my boyfriend on Valentine's day I think they would kick me out pretty fast. :lol: Besides, how much had they worked these past [insert name here]? It's not like they were really really stressed and wanted to spend the little time they had with their family. I don't know for how long this has been going on, but they had been in Moscow. I mean come on, they don't even want to visit Podnebesnaya anymore. How much does it take from Yulia to come ONE SINGLE DAY when her fans really want to see her? Sure it can be really tiresome, but it's not like she had worked every single day and was really worn out. Alot of fans really wanted to see Yulia aswell. Just look at the reactions when Lena said that Yulia was in Moscow and had "problems". :rolleyes: Alot of fans were really worried and I feel sorry for them.

Rob

22-02-2004, 15:37

Originally posted by QueenBee
... and I feel sorry for them.
Yeah, of course ...:laugh: some of you guys would feel sorry if you couldn't spend 24/7 whining about evil, evil tATu. ;)

And now you can jump on this post as it's obvious that this is the only fun you actually have - waiting for someone to have another opinion and then all together ... 'cause fun is limited when you only have the same few people repeating the same stuff all over again. :D

nasnedagoniat

22-02-2004, 16:33

I made the mistake of listening to Belochka for the first time while reading that report of the episode. I was on the edge of crying for Lena. I could picture her crying in the plane. Not a happy picture.

It's funny that dollparts3000 made that comment about "becoming an adult." It seems like this is what some of the song Belochka is about. "Leave behind masks, and become adults". It's funny that Lena was the only one singing, because it seems like she is the only adult around. Ivan and Yulia both behave like little kids. But like the song says, "it's difficult to be the boy if you're the girl", this can be interpreted in many ways even: it's difficult to be an adult if you are still a big kid. For Lena: it's difficult to be a kid if you're an adult. *pictures Lena crying* Become the squirrel Lena! Become the squirrel!

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 16:39

Rob, what? I don't usually post anything about Tatu, mostly hanging out in the General forum because I've kinda gotten tired of the scandals. I don't think it's right of you to judge "what kind of fun I have". Yeah, maybe I'm enjoying myself while stating my opinion, so? I could easily say all YOU ever do is wait until somebody says something negative about Tatu and then whine about how evil evil they are. Well, that's not what I am saying because I think that you're free to write whatever the heck you want. I just said that I felt sorry for the fans - whats wrong with that? I felt sorry that they were turned down by their idol. I wasn't being sarcastic or anything trying to prove how evil Yulia is. :laugh: I understand how she wanted to spend time with her boyfriend, I even said so in one of my previous posts. It's just that it seems she acted rude about it, and instead of telling it straight out she said she didn't want to waste time.

Anyways, I don't need to explain myself to you, if you don't like my opinion then fine, but I don't think it's fair if you to attack me personally like that.

nasnedagoniat, maybe we should ask the person who wrote this song what it means? :D I like the way you interpret it. Kate said somebody here on the forum wrote the song.. I wonder who it can be..

Rob

22-02-2004, 17:21

Originally posted by QueenBee
I don't usually post anything about Tatu, ...
?
Ahem, ... right ... :rolleyes: :laugh:

haku

22-02-2004, 17:22

Rob

In the thread about the article saying that Yulia had stayed in Moscow to spend Valentine's day with her boyfriend, *i* was the one defending Yulia and saying that she had the right to spend that day with her boyfriend if she wanted to.

Now, i remember some people in that thread just laughing at the idea, saying that it was just lies and that Yulia would never miss such an important event just to spend a day with Pasha!

But now that Yulia herself said that she didn't go there just because she couldn't be bothered to take an 8h flight, those same people are finding that perfectly ok and understandable.

xena225

22-02-2004, 17:26

Originally posted by freddie
What's changed by now, anyway? We can still call it like that. Yes she is rude and dismissive. But that's a part of what makes Yulia herself.
Please keep in mind that almost no one here has seen any of the episodes yet (and to those who have them, let me just say: PLEASE upload them somewhere!) - and it's very difficult to judge someone's behaviour and words going on fragmented second-hand info alone (not that the majority of people posting reports here is not trust-worthy, it's just that people often see the same thing in different ways, no one is "wrong", and yet it's not entirely objective.). It's a bit disturbing to see people jump to negative conclusions so quickly about Yulia and Lena without having seen the scenes in question - it seems a bit simple-minded to me to do so, even if the majority here seems to condone it.

Yulia decided not to go to Singapore - how she spent the day is not important - but apparently she was willing to talk about it in front of a camera on the very same day Lena flew to Singapore - which goes to show that her decision wasn't just a spur of the moment thing, but something she felt strongly about - I don't call that rude, I call that determined and resolute. And that's how we know Yulia.

Apparently at first Lena had decided not to go either. For whatever reason she could be convinced to go anyway, whereas Yulia remained steadfast in her decision. Lena was flexible and accommodating. And that's how we know Lena.

In times when they must be incredibly irritated and annoyed by Ivan's behaviour and arrogance, both of their decisions show strength and character - each woman reacted and acted according to her temperament. Would I have preferred Yulia to go with Lena? Sure! Do I think less of her because she didn't? Hell, no.

BTW: Lena went to Singapore and made a point to thank the fans for their support in her acceptance speech. She also spent a considerable amount of time after the ceremony posing for pictures with fans and signing autographs. Everybody who met her, was full of praise for her kindness and graciousness. And I hardly found anyone who attended the ceremony who said they were disappointed afterwards. Quite the contrary actually.

xena225

Rob

22-02-2004, 17:28

haku

As I didn't say anything concerning Yulia neither here nor in the other thread, don't put words into other people's mouth. ;)

Read carefully, I was just having fun with constantly changing headlines... :D

QueenBee

22-02-2004, 17:33

I thought of Yulia's words and I can see your point Xena. It all depends on how she said it. For example when she talked about Lena crying, she could have said it in a good and caring way and it would be kind of different then. But it's the reason to why she didn't want to go to Singapore that made me go :none: She didn't go because she didn't want to waste time on the plane. I mean, it meant alot to some fans who were there, they really wanted to see Yulia. It's kind of sad, 'cause I know I would have been upset if my idol(s) decided not to show up because she/he/they didn't want to waste time.

To Xena: I'm not quite sure, but I think Igor and Forre and whoever else it may be, are putting up the videos online soon. Forre made a question in the Moderators-forum about free space that this site needs (because the video files are really large) so hopefully those will be up for us to see soon, but we can't be sure. For now we're just gonna have to trust Sunny and the other reports. :rose:

haku

22-02-2004, 17:47

Originally posted by QueenBee
For example when she talked about Lena crying, she could have said it in a good and caring way and it would be kind of different then.
Hmmm, seems to me that she was despising Lena for being so weak... she felt "pity", that's not a good feeling.

And i agree with you that Yulia saying that she woudn't "waste time" in a plane to see her fans was just plain rude. A lot of fans spent money and time to go there.

Lena410

22-02-2004, 18:14

Originally posted by haku
Hmmm, seems to me that she was despising Lena for being so weak... she felt "pity", that's not a good feeling.

I don't see the word pity that way. I mean when I have my essay already done and my best friend hasnt and has to work the whole afternoon I pity her. Not thinking that shes weak or despising her.

I'm not trying to say in which way Yulia might have said that because I have no idea and no one except miss volkova herself can know that. But there are certain possible ways in which she could have meant it. Assuming the worst is a way to look at things but I intend on staying positive.
Don't get me wrong. I hate the fact that she didnt bother to come but Im not surprised nor really disappointed. I don't think that any star sees comming to awards as being there for the fans because the contact with the fans is very limited. Awards is just parading in front of journalists and trying to catch attention.

I personaly don't think that a lot, if any at all, of the artist that came, came because of their fans.

paradoxides

22-02-2004, 18:36

But now that Yulia herself said that she didn't go there just because she couldn't be bothered to take an 8h flight

I know - it still can be a big disappointment for fans, but this flight was a little bit longer - ca 20 hours!
according to
http://www.worldairportguides.com/flights.html

Moscow (SVO) - Frankfurt (FRA)* - Singapore (SIN)
Total Trip Time: 22h 15m
Moscow (SVO) - Beijing (PEK)* - Singapore (SIN)
Total Trip Time: 21h 50m
Moscow (SVO) - Istanbul (IST)* - Singapore (SIN)
Total Trip Time: 24h 40m
Moscow (SVO) - Paris (CDG)* - Singapore (SIN)
Total Trip Time: 23h 45m

Unplugged

22-02-2004, 18:42

Lena was flexible and accommodating.

Lena does her job. If it's her job to receive an award given to tATu by their loving fans, of course she will go. I don't call that flexible or accomodating, she is just respectful and is ready to be professional and do her job - instead of considering it 'a waste of time' :rolleyes:

So, if I tell everyone at work that I'm not going to do my job because it's a waste of time, I'm not being rude - I'm just being determined and resolute? :rolleyes: No further comment.

I know - it still can be a big disappointment for fans, but this flight was a little bit longer - ca 20 hours!

So? Many stars who are a LOT more famous, richer and more powerful in the music industry, they take the time to take 20h flights and receive awards given to them by their loving fans.

That's how you get the people to love you as an artist - by showing your appreciation for them, even if you're not really in the mood that day or if it's not the best time. That's difference between the ones who are dedicated artists and the ones who just wanna sell records and then ignore their fans who contributed to their success.

haku

22-02-2004, 18:47

Originally posted by paradoxides
this flight was a little bit longer - ca 20 hours!
Yeah, thanks. :)

I have no idea why i typed 8h LOL Sunny poison said 20h and i knew it.
But i stand by what i said.

kr0k0

22-02-2004, 20:39

Yulia will receive from Pasha the treatment she deserves, sooner or later. If he is clever enough he'll spend all her money.

If she is clever enough she'll find a rich dumb old husband :laugh:

And Tatu will remain in the history as a highly succesfull group who must not be copied :gigi:

Mad Debz

22-02-2004, 20:55

Originally posted by freddie
Hey guys!! Aren't you being a little harsh on Yulia? She's acting like 80% of the stars would aftr 3 years of fame... cold, arogant, moody... it comes with the territory. And we all knew damn well the girls were more then capable of the rude beahaviour - remember the US tour. Oh that's right!! We all called it "punkish attitude" then. ;)
What's changed by now, anyway? We can still call it like that. Yes she is rude and dismissive. But that's a part of what makes Yulia herself. We can take it or leave it. She sure doesn't give a damn what we think of her. Lets not worry ourselves. Lol

I didn't want to edit the quote because it's exactly what I would have said. Yulia is a Diva she doesn't give a flying banana what people think. At times I have found her rather rude, hey she totally ignorned me at the hotel in Saint Petersburg even though I was stood right next to her, don't forget. It annoyed me but I do expect it from her. Yulia's Yulia :heh:

Hasn't it always been said that Yulia and Lena are total opposites? Lena the quite book worm, Yulia the wild party animal. Lena who doesn't like to upset people, Yulia the one who will stand on peoples fingers (there's a quote about that somewhere isn't there?). Lena the one who cares a little for her fans and will most of the time pose for photos, Yulia the one who wont give fans the time of day. Thats what makes them who they are. :D

On the Ivan note it looks to me that he is still expecting them to come back. Surely they are in the last year of their contract anyway? :dknow:

MD

Unplugged

22-02-2004, 20:59

Yulia is a Diva

:lol: Yeah, and I'm Pavarotti... :rolleyes:

Get real. There's not a single reason for Yulia to be considered a diva or for her seeing herself as a diva.

Rob

22-02-2004, 21:18

Get real. There's not a single reason for Yulia to be considered a diva or for her seeing herself as a diva.
From what could be heard over here from Russians, girls in Russia would love to be in Yulia's or Lena's shoes, and tATu are considered big stars.

Mad Debz

22-02-2004, 21:18

Originally posted by staringelf
Get real. There's not a single reason for Yulia to be considered a diva or for her seeing herself as a diva.

Hmm I find being told to get real a little offensive. :( What's your defonition of a Diva? There are differrent types of Divas. Yulia's a "I'm not doing that, I'm to good for that and I'm so not going there" Diva. Where I come from a Diva is someone who thinks they are better than everyone else and don't care what people think. :bebebe:

MD

freddie

22-02-2004, 21:20

Originally posted by haku
Tatu are supposed to be different. If Yulia is like any bitchy American pop star, what's the point?

No difference whatsoever. That's my point. My point was also that it was like this ALL THE TIME.

Originally posted by haku
What's changed is that their career is going down the drain, the hardcore fans are all they have and they're losing even that. Yulia's diva attitude is no longer endearing, it's just tiring now.

So she should start behaving better now that their career is going down the drain? It's that a bit much to expect? She wasn't nice BEFORE when they were at their heights. Why start now? She always remained what she is. True to herself. Whatever that might mean. I always claimed she was rude, arogant spoiled little brat. But everyone dismissed it then. The only differece is that I forgave her then, or rather accepted her for what she is...
Most people are still unable to do that. :p

Originally posted by haku
Agreed. And you can bet that a lot less fans will vote for Tatu at the next MTV award show (if they are nominated ever again that is). Why care to vote since Yulia thinks those award ceremonies are useless?

Originally posted by Staringelf
...And you think that's ok? Just because she has 'fame' (in her country, that is, because in the West nobody knows her besides tATu fans)?
Just because she's famous she gets to be a total bitch and it's completely ok? I don't think so.

If we had good music to cover all the arogance and rudness that went on and is going on, then it'd all be aright. But we don't have good fresh music. And THAT'S the biggest problem.Not on how many MTC awards Yulia appears and who's nais she cuts. Those are all secondary things compared to what's REALLY importaint in a MUSICAL band. Music.
Michael Jackson was considered an unusual genious in the 80s... a bit weird, but still a genious cause the music he made then was phenomenal. When the quality of that failed in the 90s THEN did the "wacko" and "child abuser" slanders come up... nobody paied THAT much attention to his extrencisities until that cane the ONLY THING that was visable in public... no more #1 hits, no more multi-platinum albums. Just contraversy, cause there was nothign else left. And that's where TAtu are going I'm afraid if there won't be a solid album out SOON! So people again have something else too talk about.

bpro50

22-02-2004, 21:40

I think Yulia will be off the radar fairly soon. No one wants to work with someone like her. Can you imagine her being a producer and having to work with a large number of people. I can't see Lena working with her much longer and I think she has screwed Ivan for the last time. So there is really no one that she has left except her dad, money-mom and her bf. Everyone has wondered what she sees in Pasha . . . I am wondering how he tolerates her crude, rude mouth and the fact that she stays stoned half-the-time. It is time that everyone see Yulia for what she really is and let her go her own way. Quit bad-mouthing fans that are finally seeing this girl for what she really is . . . she is arrogant, mean and condescending toward others. And, she won't have to waste any more of her time traveling to places like Singapore because I don't think anyone will vote for her. She's finished. Until she apologizes to her fans for her attitude, I think she'll go straight down hill.

rANdoMtATuFaN

22-02-2004, 21:58

Wow...ppl calm down. I fail to understand why ppl always see the negative side of every situation. Lena and Yulia are thier own people. They should do what they want. There is no reason to over react to every little thing.

So, Yulia didn't go. I have no opinion there.

The whole pity-thing - I have a diff. take on that: I don't think she was being mean or bringing Lena down. She just knows what Lena is like and she was stating that. But, I wasn't infront of her when she said it so I don't know.

Lena went, did her thing, and came back. Shouldn't we be happy about that?

BTW, I loved the song.

- my little rant

Thanx Sunny for the report and Hare for the song.

Unplugged

22-02-2004, 22:20

Regarding tATu's "punk attitude": one thing is to be provocative and inconvenient on TV in order to get attention and headlines to push the product. That's totally understandble if Yulia or Lena are rude or provocative on TV to get attention to the band. That's one thing, and I have nothing agains that.
But another thing is to be rude and ungrateful to your fans, considering visiting them is a waste of time.
I'm not even gonna talk about Yulia's "professional" behaviour any longer because I and many people have already said what should be said. But it's pretty clear she does not give a shit about her fans and thinks of herself as superior - I wish that was only an image for promotion, but unfortunately it's real - with this attitude towards her fans, she only showed she is a self-centered bitch.

xena225

22-02-2004, 22:23

Originally posted by rANdoMtATuFaN
Wow...ppl calm down. I fail to understand why ppl always see the negative side of every situation. Lena and Yulia are thier own people. They should do what they want. There is no reason to over react to every little thing.

So, Yulia didn't go. I have no opinion there.

The whole pity-thing - I have a diff. take on that: I don't think she was being mean or bringing Lena down. She just knows what Lena is like and she was stating that. But, I wasn't infront of her when she said it so I don't know.

Lena went, did her thing, and came back. Shouldn't we be happy about that?

BTW, I loved the song.

- my little rant

Thanx Sunny for the report and Hare for the song.

What a refreshing, down-to-earth, and level-headed post. I'm glad people like you still post here. That gives me hope. :rose:

xena225

freddie

22-02-2004, 22:37

Originally posted by staringelf
Regarding tATu's "punk attitude": one thing is to be provocative and inconvenient on TV in order to get attention and headlines to push the product. That's totally understandble if Yulia or Lena are rude or provocative on TV to get attention to the band. That's one thing, and I have nothing agains that.
But another thing is to be rude and ungrateful to your fans, considering visiting them is a waste of time.
I'm not even gonna talk about Yulia's "professional" behaviour any longer because I and many people have already said what should be said. But it's pretty clear she does not give a shit about her fans and thinks of herself as superior - I wish that was only an image for promotion, but unfortunately it's real - with this attitude towards her fans, she only showed she is a self-centered bitch.

*sighs* You don't get it still. I'm saying that she was like this ALL THE TIME. She didn't change these last two months. She was herself from the very begining and if she wasn't then she probably wouldn't even gotten as far as she did by now. The only difference are the fans who see nothing else but the scandal now since there's nothing else to talk about.
They're ALL like that to the fans... at least most of them. Even worse. And lets not forget they HAVE been nice to many fans in the past so it's not just them being self-centered bitches all the time. They're just humans, with emotions. They do get rude and arogant. And we'll just have to live with it, like we did in the past. And like ALL other fans of great bands who's performers are rude assholes must. :p

cirrus

22-02-2004, 22:45

I'm saying that she was like this ALL THE TIME. She didn't change these last two months. She was herself from the very begining and if she wasn't then she probably wouldn't even gotten as far as she did by now. The only difference are the fans who see nothing else but the scandal now since there's nothing else to talk about.

And I bet if they were still hugely successful stars, some people here would respect Yulia for "being herself" and being honest. Now we say she's bitchy and rude... which I think is closer to the reality anyways. Being rude is nothing to respect in someone.

Unplugged

22-02-2004, 22:52

Originally posted by freddie
*sighs* You don't get it still. I'm saying that she was like this ALL THE TIME. She didn't change these last two months.

I know she hasn't changed! Actually, I think she got worse with the years. And yes, she's had other bad attitudes towards the people who support the group, but for me this one is the worst of them all. She knows she's being filmed, and she knows her fans will watch that, so it's like her saying to the fans that doesn't give a damn about them. For me, that's just too much. Eventough she was being herself and wasn't lying - at least she's honest - it still is really too much rudeness and ungratefulness for me.

Not that it affects me, because I never really liked her that much - of course I always find it funny to see her mumbling, swearing and mocking journalists, but as a person she's not really appealing to me. Lena, on the other hand, is and always was.

And I don't understand how people who love the music and the band get carried away and love their 'idols' even if they're the biggest assholes :dknow:
I mean, I love Oasis (their music), but I hate every single one of them, especially Liam Gallagher, because they're such rude, vulgar people. They don't have the right to be like that just because their music is good or because they're famous - nobody has the right to be like that. Period.
I refuse to agree with the theory that you're allowed to be a total bastard just because you're famous and successful.

la aurora

22-02-2004, 23:01

Whuh ppl... no need to jupm on conclusions so fast. Sorry... may be my report wasn't full enough. I can't record the thing even. So I had to type really fast before I forget everything. But where did I say Yulia acted THIS bad? If I found her behaving like diva or being rude, I'd state my opinion, trust me. *sigh* Guess I need to go back to that episode once again.

Neither Yulia nor Lena were going to attend the ceremony. They both had doubts. But they did a recording where they said 'hello and thanks' to all the fans and they BOTH did it. Yulia didn't put there any less effort than Lena did. She was the one controlling all the proccess actually. And it's not like Yulia just sent Lena to Singapore and stayed at home enjoying the holiday. During the recording she tried to convince Lena not to go. She said Lena had to think about her health and that it was plain stupid to spend 20 hours in the plane, stay there 4 hours and then come back home. Her point wasn't that they shouldn't care of the fans. Her point was that it was useless and not fair going there in such mood they both had, arrive there tired as hell and act like everything was ok while it wasn't.
It's their job u say? Hello! *waves hands* Haven't u heard, guys, that these girls have no job now? Their careers and lives are going downhill at the lighting speed and you blame them for not wanting to attend some ceremony which is just the echo of what they once had? There's no TATU anymore. At least now. May be girls will keep singing, may be they'll do it together (they both seem to want it) and may be even with Ivan (wich I doubt now). But now it's not happening. Now they have no clue of what their lives will look like in some months.
There in the airport, lena wasn't blaming Yulia for not going. She was blaming herself for being so weak and kind-hearted. She said she was doing this good thing for ppl who ruined her life. And that she'd better be as stubborn as Yulia for her own sake.
Talking about Lena, Yulia was in fact pitying her not laughing or something. She was saying that it wasn't fair to mock at artists that way. Her point was that Lena wasn't the type who would argue. But she didn't mean it as a bad thing. She said it was just the way Lena was. Some could even find that this thing was what Yulia actually liked in Lena.

Ok. I'm off to type a report on todays episode.

Edit: yeah... and one more thing. U can defend Lena or can defend Yulia (hey, being in Singapore Lena said hi to everyone... even her dog... and she absolutely forgot about Yulia) but the tuth is that noone of them needs to be defended. They are 2 adults now. Each of them has her own life. If you think they don't care about each other at all, u are wrong. They do... they remeber all good times they had together and they want to keep singing together. But at the same moment they are not as close as you'd like them to be. It's life. They are partners, friends but nothing more.

Unplugged

22-02-2004, 23:13

going there in such mood they both had, arrive there tired as hell and act like everything was ok while it wasn't.

That's called being professional. Sure, they may not be tATu anymore, but the award was directed at both of them and voted by their fans. So, for me, Lena did the right thing.

Ok. I'm off to type a report on todays episode.

Thanks for all your reports, sunny poison! :rose:

xena225

22-02-2004, 23:23

Thank you for elaborating on that point, sunny poison. Very much appreciated! :rose:

xena225

Rob

22-02-2004, 23:51

sunny poison, Thanks for your reports!
The time and work you spend is highly appreciated! :)

nasnedagoniat

23-02-2004, 00:05

Thank you sunny poison. We would truly be in the dark without you. Love ya lots.

Kate

23-02-2004, 00:14

Rob, I would like to turn your attention to the fact that we all came to this forum initially because we wanted to support Tatu, discuss their music, news etc. Some of us have changed their views about Tatu because we got tired/annoyed with the constant scandals, lack of new music, or Tatu's ignorance of us.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's the bottom line. :D

Rob

23-02-2004, 00:16

Originally posted by katbeidar
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's the bottom line. :D
katbeidar,

You took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks. :)

ElectraCute

23-02-2004, 00:21

First of all:
Million thanks to Hare for the mp3 :rose:
– the more I listen to it the more I like it. It’s so often like this when I hear a new tatu song. First 10 seconds I think: “what the hell … “ Now I love it (The same thing happened with Nichya and NVNB)
And million thank to Sunny Poison for the report – very interesting - and thanks for the extra info.
We’d be lost without you. :rose:

Second:
About Yulia being rude towards fans.
Well – here is what Malaysian paper New Straits Times wrote about Lena:
http://www.emedia.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/Features/20040218080453/Article/indexb_html

While most celebrities, from Siti Nurhaliza to Sugababes, made plenty of stops on their way in to pose for the cameras and talk to the Press, Lena of the Russian duo t.A.T.u gave love a bad name by marching nonchalantly on the red carpet and ignoring requests for autographs.

Oh… these other stars love their fans so much - really? :rolleyes:
Of course it’s not for me to say if Sugarbabes don’t really care for their fans – but they sure know a good photo opportunity when they see one.

Yes, Lena could have had some very nice picture taken – maybe she should have done that – it sure would have satisfied the press and some fans.

It's just that it is very difficult to make moral judgement from actions like this – when we don’t know for certain what is behind it (intent, mood, feeling etc.)

Kate

23-02-2004, 00:27

Rob, finally, we agree on something. :done:

Rob

23-02-2004, 00:35

Originally posted by katbeidar
Rob, finally, we agree on something. :done:
Shocking but true. ;)

la aurora

23-02-2004, 00:39

oh, u are welcome! no need to thank me tho. i'm sure any of you would do it if could see the show. But seems i'm the only one here *sigh*

so... here's the update for ya:

Well, it's not any surprising that todays episode was devoted to Yulia's bday. This girl is 19 now. So...

==============
Today

Seems she was celebrating it today. The show began with Yulia standing in the bathroom in her panties and t-shirt and trying to make something with her hair. Her dad was running around fixing all kinds of things. The subtitle said Yulia celebrated her bday with her family and close friends. She wasn't even invited to Podnebesnaya.
It seems Mr.Volkov is the one who constantly reminds Yulia what a bastard Ivan is. He pretended like he was Ivan using hypnosis 'Sleep... sleep... we don't need money... but I'll get them all myself... I'll buy myself a new car...' he said it would be ok if Ivan let the girls earn those money. But he was acting like a kid who's stolen the candy and ran away. Yulia's dad also said that Ivan crossed the line. That even world famous producers couldn't treat their stars the way Ivan did. That he felt free to call any of girls 'dupe' or to make them wait for him for hours... while any other producer, even the genious one, would be immediately fired for that.
Yulia said the last drop was Ivan saying they shouldn't care about fans. That if they think about what fans want, they won't achieve anything. And Yulia couldn't understand who they were working for then. So she said: 'when he said that, I understood there was nothing to talk about with this guy. I just stood up and went away. it was useless to argue with him'.
Then ivan's present arrived. Can u believe what it was? LoL It was a portrait of his beautiful self in a massive border. Yulia didn't even know how to react... if she was to laugh or to cry. Mr. Volkov suggested to hide it somewhere but Yulia said the border was beautiful... like it was a n icon... so Mansky suggested to remove Ivan's pic and put there someone's else. He had his reason to suggest it. So after some thinking Yulia's dad began to work on it.

******************
Yulia's 18th bday time. Some stuff from their US visit shown where Yulia seems to have lots of fun on tv shows and her bf Pasha is also around.

Ivan driving the car: I don't want to choose the present for her actually. She doesn't need anything. Except some sign of normal human love. I'll better buy some border and give her my photo. She doesn't need diamonds or something... and computer is something her parents can give her. The thing she needs the most now is me. And any other present just won't work.
Some pendant with my photo? Well... she has not only lena, but boyfriend as well. And pendant is something u wear on u. I don't want to upset the guy.
She never invited me to her bdays... one bday we spent shooting the video... another... well... I just came to congratulate her...
It's very difficult to give presents... why? Well... I ask you... why? May be coz I don't love her much enough?
Mansky: May be...
Ivan: But how can one not loving the person do as much as I did for her? This bday has a bad background. You know, she has these problems with her voice... it's phsycological problem that leads to the physical one. And we can do nothing about it. The only thing we can do is to stop the project.
Mansky: Can you change the girl?
Ivan: Change the girl? How can I change her? Or you mean replace with another one? How? The whole project is based on their personalities... so what for? Money? Thanks, I have enough.
Oh... I have the idea. I'll find the photo she doesn't have and put it there. Yeah...
*Ivan sits at his office working on Yulia's photo carefully. This action takes place after he spent lots of time in the shop trying to find the right border... paying attention to material, colors... all*
***************

Today again

Finally Yulia's dad manages to put the background panel off. He gives Yulia her picture he found there. The girl looks touched and puzzled at the same time. She tries to camouflage her strong emotion but kinda fails to do it. She says the border looks cool... like it was made for an icon... but wonders why he took her image at all and why he placed it behind his. then she supposes it was to show she's behind him. that she should follow him or something.
Mr.Volkov says they better shouldn't open the border and now Yulia is going to be worried but Yulia interrupts him saying something like: 'I always worried about him. He became someone really important for us in these 3 years. He was different then. And I need to thank him for what he did... HE made us to be who we are now. He gave us that USA success. And it's a pity that this all happens now'
Yulia's dad: But is wasn't only HIM. lots of other ppl were around and THEY made this project successful... Kiper, Lyonya, Galoyan...
Yulia: But all ideas were HIS. Yeah... Kiper wrote that line... Galoyan wrote the music... but HE did everything. He chose the songs, made all those actions... This BOOM was created by him...

Yulia's dad shows the huge pack of letters Yulia got for her bday. Mansky asks if all those fans knew their adress. Mr.Volkov says 'yes' and shows letter Yulia got from prison with 'TATU FOREVER' written on the envelope. Dad's eyes shine with pride for his daughter. he also shows 2 huge teddy bears fan gave Yulia for her bday and opens the door to show some fans standing there. Mansky talks to those fans. 4 girls and one shy guy somewhere behind. Those girls talk a lot about TATU and that without Y&L there won't be TATU. 2 girls even kiss. When asked about how they found the adress, they said it was in Internet and then show Mansky the wall where adresses and phone numbers of Yulia, Lena and Smash guys are written. mansky asks who they love more, yulia or Lena, fans say they love both. just they don't know lena's new adress as she moved. They also show photos they taken with Yulia and Lena and say that Yulia is very nice to her fans. That she always find time to chat to them... and when there are few of them around... like 4-5... she even goes for a walk with them. When Pasha arrives with a huge boucket they greet him like an old friend and he smiles and says 'hello' back. He leaves the flowers to Yulia's dad and leaves. Mansky keeps talking to fans and girls say they are quitting smoking now as Yulia said she quit. Which brings smile to Mr. Volkov's face and he says: 'see? she' not such a bad influence as that deputee said'

At this time Yulia is sitting in some studio getting ready for the program she was invited to. Once she arrives, the host gives her flowers and toy dog... he also congratulates her with spring, saying when the girl wich such a spring smile is around, it's spring even at the 20th of Feb. They talk a bit. He asks Yulia if the rumors are true and that both girls try to work solo from now... Yulia says 'not. We are a duo. Lena and me. Then the surprise arrive. 2 huuuge bouckets of flowers with Sergey and Vlad from Smash behind them. Yulia looks happy, hugs them her eyes shining... they congratulate her... blah... blah... blah... Host asks if it's true if Yulia and Sergey are relatives. Sergey says yulia is his step sister. Yulia looks at him her smile never fading and asks if they don't look alike. Host says they are like twins but he thought of them more like of a wife and husband. Everyone laughs and Yulia says they are this and that... Sergey congratulates her once again and wishes her love. Yulia is like 'hey! but i want it with YOU'. So everyone is having a good time there.

================

Ivan didn't call Yulia that day.

Lots of fans came to Podnebesnaya to sing songs and congratulate Yulia.

The administration of Pekin hotel asked Ivan to leave the studio before 1st march, so the show as it is came to it finish line mansky writes.

Amen.

simon

23-02-2004, 00:46

Thanks for your reports, sunny poison!

I'd not been following the discussion here as it happened, so I'd like to make a few observations now.

Yulia is rude and arrogant - but I don't think that her not going to Singapore is a particularly good example of that. Generally, being polite costs very little. In this case, being polite and going to collect an award would cost 40 hours of torture. If I had been in their situation, I would have been very reluctant to go. Lena's decision to go reminds me of what I was like when I was her age and a bit older - someone who felt a strong sense of duty to do what was right, regardless of personal inconvenience. Sometimes you do have to do what's right regardless, but sometimes it's not worth it. I'm not sure the fleeting pleasure for your fans is worth putting yourself through such an ordeal.

I think a much better example of Yulia's personality flaw is the story from The Face article about Eurovision when they went into the centre of Riga in the afternoon before the contest and someone Ivan had brought along stepped on Yulia's foot. She stormed off and when Ivan followed her back to the hotel she screamed at him for five minutes. Meanwhile, Lena stayed out signing autographs. I think that's a much better example of Yulia behaving badly (and unprofessionally) and Lena behaving well (and professionally). There are many examples of Yulia ignoring her responsibilities, while Lena is dutiful. For once, I think Yulia may be the one who got the balance right.

As someone pointed out, when they were rude to journalists, fans didn't mind. But if fans think Yulia is being rude to them, they get really angry. Well, that's how the journalists felt. That's why they got such a bad press. Journalists are only human, just like fans.

EDIT:

sunny poison posted her report as I was writing my post. Thanks again!:rose:

A very interesting episode, IMO. A fascinating insight into Yulia's relationships with Ivan, her dad, some fans and Sergei. It's interesting to get Yulia's take on the creative process in Tatu. And to hear he dad's opinions about Ivan (the whole Yulia/Ivan/Mr Volkov thing sounds very oedipal). And what did Yulia say to Sergei about her feelings?! Is this confirmation of the rumours about that? It's like one of those 'behind the scenes' fanfics - except without the obligatory lesbian scenes.:D

Kate

23-02-2004, 00:48

It sounds so wierdly romantic between Ivan and Yulia... Lol... :gigi:

Thanks for the report, sunny. :rose:

cirrus

23-02-2004, 00:50

thanks sunny poison, even if you're the only one who *can* give us the updates... :rose:

Yulia said the last drop was Ivan saying they shouldn't care about fans. That if they think about what fans want, they won't achieve anything. And Yulia couldn't understand who they were working for then.
Well that makes Yulia sound better... i feel kinda bad about criticising her, since i don't know her and i don't know the whole story.

Then ivan's present arrived. Can u believe what it was? LoL It was a portrait of his beautiful self in a massive border.
:rolleyes: :laugh: Okay, it's official.... this man is an IDIOT!

taty994945

23-02-2004, 00:52

Thanks for the news SP. :rose:

Then ivan's present arrived. Can u believe what it was? LoL It was a portrait of his beautiful self in a massive border.

WTF?! :laugh:

Lux

23-02-2004, 00:52

thanks again, sunny poison

aww, what a happy time. :p were the teddybears bigger than her? :gigi: sergey is yuila's stepbrother? :spy: where was lena?...well THAT clears up the going solo thing. where was lena during her birthday bash?

she has not only lena, but boyfriend as well
well that's nice, she had a boyfriend even during her 18th, despite all those happy pictures of her and lena. interesting. :none:

EDIT: I don't want to choose the present for her actually. She doesn't need anything. Except some sign of normal human love. I'll better buy some border and give her my photo. She doesn't need diamonds or something... and computer is something her parents can give her. The thing she needs the most now is me. And any other present just won't work.
Some pendant with my photo? Well... she has not only lena, but boyfriend as well. And pendant is something u wear on u. I don't want to upset the guy.
She never invited me to her bdays... one bday we spent shooting the video... another... well... I just came to congratulate her...
It's very difficult to give presents... why? Well... I ask you... why? May be coz I don't love her much enough?
Mansky: May be...
Ivan: But how can one not loving the person do as much as I did for her? This bday has a bad background. You know, she has these problems with her voice... it's phsycological problem that leads to the physical one. And we can do nothing about it. The only thing we can do is to stop the project.
Mansky: Can you change the girl?
Ivan: Change the girl? How can I change her? Or you mean replace with another one? How? The whole project is based on their personalities... so what for? Money? Thanks, I have enough.

kate - yeah i see what you're saying. it's a weird relationship, like ivan is trying to measure up to yulia, but can't seem to do it. he thinks he should give her love and yet he feels that would upset her boyfriend. how ironic!! haha. giving her a pendant is perhaps too personal, and thus it would upset whoever her bf was at the time...strange indeed. perhaps that's what yulia's personality is, ppl around her feel the need to measure up to her standards through love, lack of love, etc. she *does* have such a strong personality.
so her voice problems were psychological in nature? like she wasn't confident enough? hm. the whole project based on their personalities, sounds true to me. although, personality has none/litte/some/a fair amount/alot to do with orientation.

ElectraCute

23-02-2004, 01:20

Thanks Sunny Poison :rose:

This was the last episode? - oh no.

simon

23-02-2004, 01:20

Originally posted by katbeidar
It sounds so wierdly romantic between Ivan and Yulia... Lol... :gigi:

I always thought their relationship seemed rather romantic. The way she looked at him. Why did Ivan have such a spell over Yulia? It seemed like love. The way they talk about each other here is like two people who love(d) each other, but now drive each other crazy.

la aurora

23-02-2004, 01:20

well... ,simon, i think Yulia is just a typical russian. So u can blame all russians for being rude and arrogant. Lena just a type that has this sense of duty... u are right here. But I spent here in Russia all my life and I got used to it already. it's just the russian way of living. We have this level of sincerity... I don't say it's good or bad. It's just the way it is. Russians are different from americans for example. If something is wrong, russian will let u know it is and won't just smile. And russian will say f*ck off if he feels to... no matter if he talks to his friend or boss. I got used to it and for me it's better. At least u know what person really thinks or feels. Tho it can look ugly at times, have to agree with you here.

katbeidar, yeah... it looked kinda.... ah... whatever! :gigi:

Lux, Lena was nowhere to be seen. It was Yulia's episode... At Saturaday it was more about Lena... now Yulia... they don't spend so much time together recently...

Lux

23-02-2004, 01:25

simon - on the contrary it's yulia who's cast a "spell" on ivan. the dynamic between them is shifted towards yulia having more elevation, and ivan fretting about what to get her, how to love her, how to make her happier..

sunny poison - ah, ok. this was the last episode. so much for a season finale although it was barely a season, or a show. :none:

la aurora

23-02-2004, 01:25

hm... btw, have u noticed guys that the time Ivan made this present(bought and arranged everything) and the time Yulia actually got it aren't the same? one year difference actually...
and another idea just hit me... Yulia said Ivan gave her the present and told to open at home. She opened it at her bday party... today.... so... she saw Ivan today then? I don't think she'd wait a week befor opening it... :dknow:

Kate

23-02-2004, 01:27

sunny poison, u can blame all russians for being rude and arrogant

Hehehe... that's part of why we left Russia. :p

Anywho, rude is rude, no matter what part of the world you live in. There is no reason why you can't be polite if you live in Russia. :heh: It all depends on the crawd you hang out with etc.

la aurora

23-02-2004, 01:30

Lux, I'm not sure if it was the last one. Ivan has a week before being kicked of Podnebesnaya... so... who knows... besides, Podnebesnaya wasn't the place most of footage was taken... so... we'll se...

simon

23-02-2004, 01:33

Originally posted by Lux
simon - on the contrary it's yulia who's cast a "spell" on ivan. the dynamic between them is shifted towards yulia having more elevation, and ivan fretting about what to get her, how to love her, how to make her happier..

Yes, I suppose it's that Yulia has fallen out of love with Ivan and he's trying to win her back...

la aurora

23-02-2004, 01:34

Originally posted by katbeidar
sunny poison,

Hehehe... that's part of why we left Russia. :p

Anywho, rude is rude, no matter what part of the world you live in. There is no reason why you can't be polite if you live in Russia. :heh: It all depends on the crawd you hang out with etc.

well... sure one can be polite... and I didn't mean ALL russians are rude. just even polite ones can allow themselves not to hide what they feel or think... it's in mentality i think :gigi:

coolasfcuk

23-02-2004, 02:12

Wow, I hope people have calmed down now ... let me not say names or give warnings, but if you guys start attacking eachother again, or getting so off topic in this thread again -its coming :none:

on a happier note: Thanks sunny poison for all the great reports! :rose:

well, the show has proven to be a fanatics paradise... nothing more! Last attempts to get some footage from the girls....

always interesting to read about Yulia's and Ivans chemistry :gigi:

thegurgi

23-02-2004, 04:13

i've decided to not believe anything anymore.

I'm just going to wait till March 14th and see what happens then.

denial

23-02-2004, 04:52

yep !! 14th March!!! time will come and tell this all!

Finally Yulia's dad manages to put the background panel off. He gives Yulia her picture he found there. The girl looks touched and puzzled at the same time. She tries to camouflage her strong emotion but kinda fails to do it. She says the border looks cool... like it was made for an icon... but wonders why he took her image at all and why he placed it behind his. then she supposes it was to show she's behind him. that she should follow him or something.
...hmmm....interesting what Ivan really mean by this ... why hide Yulia behind him in the pretty frame? why bother to put Yulia's picture at all ? ... why make himself look stupid .. :(

Mr.Volkov says they better shouldn't open the border and now Yulia is going to be worried but Yulia interrupts him saying something like: 'I always worried about him. He became someone really important for us in these 3 years. He was different then. And I need to thank him for what he did... HE made us to be who we are now. He gave us that USA success. And it's a pity that this all happens now'
Yulia's dad: But is wasn't only HIM. lots of other ppl were around and THEY made this project successful... Kiper, Lyonya, Galoyan...
Yulia: But all ideas were HIS. Yeah... Kiper wrote that line... Galoyan wrote the music... but HE did everything. He chose the songs, made all those actions... This BOOM was created by him...
Glad to hear that Yulia still sticked to her opinion no matter how people around him called Ivan's idiot or stealing money or things ..and it just few days ago on her birthday.

*could imagine how people around the girls are telling girls .. from left right top bottom to leave Ivan so to make more money* ..wonder who are wanting to detroy TATU actually... *of pondering by herself*

About the song Belochka
I wonder if the meaning of zachikom in english (bunny) give the same expression like it meant in russian. I meant the "bunny" make me think of "bugs bunny" and it does looks funny .. but really bunny is an animal ..just like a squirrel .. "little and cute... and scared"...

Who ever wrote the lyric .. if you read this .. I think its nice .. for you :rose: ..the sentence really sound nice with the melody .. and I "too" .. love the ..a..a.. part .. :)

thegurgi

23-02-2004, 05:07

when i hear bunny i think of Thumper from Bambi

:: patiently awaits the explanation from the author ::

denial

23-02-2004, 05:24

I heard the lyric is from looong time ago... Ivan already selected it .. and ..its strange .. that the lyric seems to fit in now .. and who compose the music/melody ..? ..remind me of '30 minutes' with piano and violin/cello sound plays behind... but i think its from keyboard... and in mode of musical box..

==speculation fun corner begin==

okay wait .. what if the lyric was written by Ivan himself .. and he register here and tell about it... and we saw he has computer!! .. :eek: .. *taps fingers on table*... trap! trap! trap! trap! <-- this the sound.

Added:
hmm.. funny that my same translator gave different translation to the lyric....

And if to us to escape
And to not be designated
Blanks to not press
Last will not hide
Are smeared by paints
Stupid распросами
Растанемся with masks
And we become adults.
But it is difficult to be the boy, if you the girl,
It is difficult to be the girl, if you the boy
А.. And I can shall белочкой
А.. And you can will зайчиком

----

Sights of condemnation
And misunderstanding
Our crimes-
This punishment

We with ourselves shall not consult
And not there we shall undress,
But we will not be corrected!
But we shall not change!

It is difficult to be the boy, if you the girl
It is difficult to be the girl, if you the boy
I shall be белочкой, you will be зайчик

----

Kate's translation..thank you :rose:

If we run away
And not be marked
Not push blanks
The last one won't hide
Washed away paints
With silly questions
Part with masks
We become adults.
But it's hard to be a boy if you are a girl,
And it's hard to be a girl if you are a boy
Oh... maybe I'll be a squirrle
Oh... maybe you'll be a bunny

------

Originally posted by coolasfcuk
:laugh: nah.. thanks to Ilya I will geive you the 'secret' recepie to the HIT 'Squirrel' :lol:

It'll be hard to be a girl if you're a boy,
It'll be hard to be a boy if you're a girl.
I will be a bunny, you will be squirrel....

:lol: :lol: and that's a FACT ;)

Shaps writes such good lyrics! ha ha ha

==speculation fun corner end==

....hehehehe.. I am so obsessed with that song .. LoL ..

*off to shower and plan to watch Gothica today... umm.. need to get all these things out of head ... and try to live normal life..:rolleyes:* ..

P/S:
Cools.. I don't mean anything bad okay .. just collecting info. For you :rose: ..love it very much everytime you laugh.. *hugs**hugs**hugs*
Had to remove one of your "LoL" because I want to laugh too .. :laugh:

Lux

23-02-2004, 06:28

We with ourselves shall not consult
And not there we shall undress,
But we will not be corrected!
But we shall not change!
some of the lyrics, as this ^ are conveniently reflective of what's going on in their career.

But it's hard to be a boy if you are a girl,
And it's hard to be a girl if you are a boy
Oh... maybe I'll be a squirrle
Oh... maybe you'll be a bunny
alright. who is having the identity crisis? ivan? yulia? lena? mansky? :none:

as for the song itself, i like the melody sorta but not the fact that katya is singing. her voice is ok but it doesn't match with lena's. how can they do this? who the hell is she anyway? it's JUST not the same, i "like" it at best. tatu is ending waaa i can't believe i'm seeing it for the first time. *goes off to sedate self*

:lol: :none:
:rolleyes:

denial

23-02-2004, 06:33

Lux, ... Katya ? ... I thought its Lena ??? I dont think its Katya .. is it? no .. I think its Lena .. its Lena voice ..

haku

23-02-2004, 07:23

Thanks a lot for the report sunny poison :rose:

I fell asleep before you posted it... LOL :rolleyes: :lalala:

Edited to add:

I agree that the relationship between Ivan and Yulia is... odd, to put it mildly. She constantly refers to him as a "genius" (which Lena never does) but is also extremely harsh with him at other times. The gift thing is just disturbing.
There is too much passion between them, it goes from love to hate in an instant. :hmmm:

And about the fact that flying for 20 hours is an ordeal, well, it is (even though it's less painful when you're travelling in business class as they do) but it's part of the job description of an international pop star.
If they are no longer willing to deal with that kind of things, it would probably be better for them to recenter what's left of their career on Russia only, which is the way it's taking anyway.

dollparts3000

23-02-2004, 10:25

That's so wierd! I wonder who it is! I thought its was Lena at first but now that I listen to it, who knows. Is it Lena or Katya?

Actually, I just listened to a bunch of Katya's songs and I don't think that she could sound like Lena but I may be wrong. It is probably Lena. Her voice sounds fantastic!

Ruivelle

23-02-2004, 12:00

WHOA WHOA WHOA PPL !! I kinda mad :mad: reading everyone is dissing Yulia now just because she said she wouldn't come to Singapore because the flight is too long ...

I as one of her fans that go to Singapore from Indonesia ,but didn't quite dissapointed :dknow: ... there are not so many t.A.T.u. fans on s'pore ( i only met 3 of them who are Singaporeans and all of them are Lena's fans :D ) and i think t.A.T.u. is not that popular there , not like in Japan
( I ask almost every single airport personnel on s'pore and none of them knew t.A.T.u. and about their arrival ... )

so , lemme ask , why does idols come and receive awards , for their fans ? yes , but what the main reason ?? because they need to promote their songs , album , etc to their fans ...

and Yulia do have a main reason to not coming , her presence in t.A.t.u. is at stakes now with all the 'breaking off contract' thingie with Ivan , etc ... only come with 20h flight just to receive the award , with no further reason like promoting their album ... wasting time on my opinion ...

and her feeling pity for Lena , i think maybe she already convinced Lena not to come but Lena still insist just for her fans ( :rose: for Lena )
just like everyone says , Lena is the kind and accomodating persona , and she can't resist not to come , but Yulia is Yulia , she got this Volk attitude which don't give a damn about anything , which is , i really adore

how bout seeing the bright side , they won an award , Lena come to receive it , i got her autograph which is already make me VERY happy as their fan , Yulia don't come , no big deal :dknow:

she only didn't come for the MAA , not every single awards that they got , why already make a conclusion that she is ignoring her fans , huh ?? :mad: :mad:

haku

23-02-2004, 12:28

Ok... So if it was not important for Tatu to get an award in South East Asia because they are not *that* popular, why did Asian fans ask us to vote? :confused: It was a waste of time.

dollparts3000

23-02-2004, 13:18

They are only human. Would you want to spend 20 hrs. on a plane on Valentines day? That's not very romantic.

Ruivelle

23-02-2004, 13:21

well , the fans say that t.A.T.u. had to come to the award because it is their job as international artists , but what our job ?? vote for them so they can win right ?? so ??
U said asian fans , and south east asia is a large area ,and i said t.A.T.u. is not popular in Singapore , not asia ... and Lena did come to receive the award anyway , so ??
I just wondering why ppl keep dissing Yulia and become very dissapointed just because she didn't come ... again , Lena did come , they won the award , i don't think us voting is waste of time then ...

haku

23-02-2004, 13:27

Originally posted by dollparts3000
They are only human. Would you want to spend 20 hrs. on a plane on Valentines day? That's not very romantic.
*I* was practically the only one defending Yulia's right to spend Valentine's day with her boyfriend in another thread, so don't throw that at me.
As for the 20 hours, well, i've spent more than 20 hours voting for Tatu and i'm also human.

taty994945

23-02-2004, 13:29

Would you want to spend 20 hrs. on a plane on Valentines day?

I would like that very much. :lalala:

Ruivelle

23-02-2004, 13:31

here , for better explanation , i said t.A.T.u. is not popular in s'pore so there is no reason for Yulia wasting 40h of time on plane just to go there accept the award , then go right back to russia ... cause promoting their album in s'pore would be a waste of time , from what i saw , BLUE and gareth gates is more popular among the teen on s'pore

they did come to Japan , yes , of course , because they're popular there and have a big chance to promote their album ...

see Lena for example , she come right before the MAA begins , going to the afterparty held on Fullerton hotel until 3am and go straight back to moscow on the next morning on 10.30am for another 20h on plane ... i think that's really tiring ...again :rose: for Lena's dedication :D

no wonder Yulia don't want to do that ...

haku

23-02-2004, 14:02

Yeah, that sounds really tiring. :( (And i'm not being sarcastic)

If they are ever nominated for an award somewhere, before starting to vote, we should check how many hours it is from Moscow. If it is more than, let's say 10 hours, we should not vote, to spare them the trouble to have to go if they won.
I don't wanna hear about Lena crying alone in a plane again. :none:

Ruivelle

23-02-2004, 14:20

what makes me think again is why MTV crew let Linkin Park give their video footage for winning the award but they didn't give t.A.T.u. permission to do that ?? :confuse: that's kinda not fair ....

although they did gave a very excellent VIP room for Lena to stay at Fullerton hotel :D :D

xena225

23-02-2004, 14:32

Thank you, sunny poison for your continued efforts to provide us with information! :rose:

So, this time around (episode 12) we get more information on what Yulia thinks about their fans - that she considers herself as working for them and that she cares about what they want - in fact she felt so strongly about it that it apparently was the turning point in her professional relationship with Ivan, because 'when he said that, I understood there was nothing to talk about with this guy. I just stood up and went away. it was useless to argue with him'. Moreover, we get an interview with fans who only have nice things to say about Yulia.

Originally posted by sunny poison
Neither Yulia nor Lena were going to attend the ceremony. They both had doubts. But the did a recording where they said 'hello and thanks' to all the fans and they BOTH did it. Yulia didn't put there any less effort than Lena did. She was the one controlling all the proccess actually. And it's not like Yulia just sent Lena to Singapore and stayed at home enjoying the holiday. During the recording she tried to convince Lena not to go. She said lena had to think about here health and that it was plain stupid to spend 20 hours in the plane, stay there 4 hours and then come back home. Her point wasn't that they shouldn't care of the fans. Her point was that it was useless and not fair going there in such mood they both had, arrive there tired as hell and act like everything was ok while it wasn't.
Huh. That's pretty much what I've been saying. It's not out of a lack of respect for their fans they considered not going, but because of the situation they are in right now. I personally understand their reluctance to spend 20 hrs on a plane (and it wasn't for a concert this time, it was for a 30 second walk onto a stage) just to put up a happy facade and "play nice" in a situation that must be very frustrating for them, and Lena's statement that "she was doing this good thing for ppl who ruined her life. And that she'd better be as stubborn as Yulia for her own sake" speaks volumes here. Lena showed up anyway and made many fans really happy, but I wouldn't have held it against her if she had stayed in Moscow as well.

Originally posted by sunny poison
He asks Yulia if the rumors are true and that both girls try to work solo from now... Yulia says 'not. We are a duo. Lena and me.
This is of course very good to hear. :done:

As for Ivan giving Yulia a picture of himself for her birthday - :lol: - could he be any more self-important? And that oh so subtle gesture of putting her picture behind his own. :rolleyes: :laugh: "Yulia didn't even know how to react... if she was to laugh or to cry." Laugh, girl, just laugh.

xena225

xena225

23-02-2004, 14:38

Originally posted by Lux
sunny poison - ah, ok. this was the last episode. so much for a season finale although it was barely a season, or a show. :none:

STS has another episode scheduled for next Saturday.

EDIT to say: Thank you to hare for supplying the Belochka mp3! :rose:

xena225

haku

23-02-2004, 14:39

Glad to see you've joined the Ivan bashing team, xena225. I guess we won't have to fear your wrath in that area anymore. :D

dollparts3000

23-02-2004, 14:40

Hey, atleast they are not like one of those phony artists who say they luv their fans all the time!!!! I'm sure Lena and Yulia, luv having fans but atleast they are original and don't act like a lot of the pop artists out there who try too hard all the time to please everybody at the expense of themselves.

They have lives too. They aren't just stars.

I'm sure in most cases, they would have luved to attend an award show and probably have gone! But there are days where I'm sure one of them or both of them are too depressed to go, (which is what Yulia said) and why should she go if she doesn't want to? Isn't it more sincere that she decided to stay back. Lena wanted to go so she did.

Ruivelle

23-02-2004, 14:47

good to hear that anything is cleared now ...

thx for sunny poison for the explanation :rose:

Lena410

23-02-2004, 15:35

Thanks for the report sunny poison!!! :rose:

hm..one reason why I started being a tatu fan was that they didnt smile and grin because it was their job and they had to. They only smiled when they really feeled like it. That made them more likeable for me. Yulia not going because of their current situation, it being valentines day and her not feeling like it is in my opinion better than her being there and bitching right and left. Or wearing that hypocrite grin of everything is ok when it's not that I absolutly hate on anybody.

Ivan's present is totally disturbing *shudders* thank god I dont get presents like that. I think I'd prefer not getting anything from him rather than a picture of himself. :hmmm:

I would like to know what lena gave her. *ponders*

How many episodes are going to be aired?

Honestly I think that those two last episodes sounded better than some of the first ones. Cause one could actually see Lena and/or Yulia in there.

haku

23-02-2004, 15:46

Originally posted by Lena410
How many episodes are going to be aired?
It was planned to make 20 episodes, but apparently they've given up on that. STS has a 13th episode scheduled saturday 28 at 23:00 but nothing for sunday. So i guess this is the end.

Honestly I think that those two last episodes sounded better than some of the first ones. Cause one could actually see Lena and/or Yulia in there.
Agreed, Ivan has had much more screen time than Y&L, he obviously thought that the show was about *him*.

Unplugged

23-02-2004, 17:12

Originally posted by denial
Lux, ... Katya ? ... I thought its Lena ??? I dont think its Katya .. is it? no .. I think its Lena .. its Lena voice ..

Of course it's Lena. I have heard Katya's voice and it has nothing to do with Lena's.

This is definitely Lena singing. :yes: :love:

That soft, soothing voice... :dead:

Lena410

23-02-2004, 17:22

Originally posted by haku
It was planned to make 20 episodes, but apparently they've given up on that. STS has a 13th episode scheduled saturday 28 at 23:00 but nothing for sunday. So i guess this is the end.

hm..maybe I would be sadder bout this message if I had acutally seen more than just ten mintues of the RS. :D

I *love* Lena's voice in Squirrel :p that woman's amazing :D

Lux

23-02-2004, 19:41

apparently listening to belochka on low volume at 4 in the morning induces hallucinatory hearing of katya's voice, which i've not heard yet. :none: i like the song but .. eh

she didnt want to expend the effort to show up for an appearance. she decided to stay behind because going would've been more of a hassle...on valentine's day..
i guess i can't blame yulia because what I would've down is different than what she did.

Rob

23-02-2004, 20:40

Originally posted by xena225
Huh. That's pretty much what I've been saying. It's not out of a lack of respect for their fans they considered not going, but because of the situation they are in right now. I personally understand their reluctance to spend 20 hrs on a plane (and it wasn't for a concert this time, it was for a 30 second walk onto a stage) just to put up a happy facade and "play nice" in a situation that must be very frustrating for them, and Lena's statement that "she was doing this good thing for ppl who ruined her life. And that she'd better be as stubborn as Yulia for her own sake" speaks volumes here. Lena showed up anyway and made many fans really happy, but I wouldn't have held it against her if she had stayed in Moscow as well.
Hm, I agree with this. :cool:

haku

23-02-2004, 20:52

Originally posted by xena225
Lena's statement that "she was doing this good thing for ppl who ruined her life. And that she'd better be as stubborn as Yulia for her own sake" speaks volumes here.
Which is why, in the light of this statement, we should probably stop all voting for t.A.T.u. for the time being and wait for a clearer situation, because right now, we are in fact voting for the people who own the name t.A.T.u. and ruined her life, not Lena. :none:

Lena410

23-02-2004, 21:09

haku, honestly Im voting for Lena and not for the people who own the name. *shakes head* honestly I can be mighty negative but you beat me.

and you dont believe what rubish *I* say when mad or in the mood lena obviously was judging from her statement..Honestly if you stop voting than you completly undermine everything she did..you anhilate the effor *she* put in flying to the awards alone. She obviously wanted us to know that she does care whether we vote or not. You completly ignored her actions and interpreted her words in a way that is beyond me.

tatyruv

23-02-2004, 21:38

Thanks for both reports sunny poison

and yesh!...gotta wait...for March 14th!...weґll see...

haku

23-02-2004, 22:14

Originally posted by Lena410
you anhilate the effor *she* put in flying to the awards alone.
I have nothing against Lena, quite the contrary.

What i mean is that from what we get in the RS, Lena and Yulia are no longer t.A.T.u. What's the point in voting for an award when we're not sure that it's actually Lena and Yulia who will get it? It may be two other girls who took their place or Ivan alone.

Unplugged

23-02-2004, 22:23

Originally posted by haku
What's the point in voting for an award when we're not sure that it's actually Lena and Yulia who will get it? It may be two other girls who took their place or Ivan alone.

The band still exists, am I right? Aren't Y&L's lawyers still negotiating with Neformat?

haku

23-02-2004, 22:47

Originally posted by staringelf
The band still exists, am I right? Aren't Y&L's lawyers still negotiating with Neformat?
Well, theoritically the band still exists, but L&Y refuse to cooperate with Ivan anymore. From what i understand, the name, the songs, everything belong to Ivan, so if he wants to hire new girls or simply end the project, he can do it.
In any case, i think there is very little chance that L&Y are going to be able to keep the name. And do they really want to? I'm not so sure.

bpro50

24-02-2004, 04:20

. . . I was just wondering. Will we ever see them kiss again? Will there ever be another display of affection toward each other? There seems to be so many things that are behind them now.

febrika

24-02-2004, 05:02

thank you for the report sunny poison.
glad to know that yulia had good times on her birthday :done:

Originally posted by sunny poison
Yulia said the last drop was Ivan saying they shouldn't care about fans. That if they think about what fans want, they won't achieve anything. And Yulia couldn't understand who they were working for then. So she said: 'when he said that, I understood there was nothing to talk about with this guy. I just stood up and went away. it was useless to argue with him'.

Originally posted by sunny poison
but Yulia interrupts him saying something like: 'I always worried about him. He became someone really important for us in these 3 years. He was different then. And I need to thank him for what he did... HE made us to be who we are now. He gave us that USA success. And it's a pity that this all happens now'
Yulia's dad: But is wasn't only HIM. lots of other ppl were around and THEY made this project successful... Kiper, Lyonya, Galoyan...
Yulia: But all ideas were HIS. Yeah... Kiper wrote that line... Galoyan wrote the music... but HE did everything. He chose the songs, made all those actions... This BOOM was created by him...

:: comparison statement mode on ::
very humanly :D and a grateful person ..
:: comparison statement mode off ::

Originally posted by sunny poison
The administration of Pekin hotel asked Ivan to leave the studio before 1st march, so the show as it is came to it finish line mansky writes.

Amen.

:none:

what happen to y&l? it said that she celebrate it w/ family and close friends .. isnt lena a close friend?
i recall this happen on october 4th also .. :(

cirrus

24-02-2004, 05:17

it said that she celebrate it w/ family and close friends .. isnt lena a close friend?

Maybe...but she's also a co-worker...and sometimes it's nice to just be with 'your' people, you know? She's spent so much time with Lena anyways... :)

Lux

24-02-2004, 05:29

haku - by that logic we shouldn't have ever bought tatu merchandise cause it was ivan who got most of the money right? it doesn't matter who owns the name, does it? lena and yulia are tatu until they are replaced.

i don't know about many of you, but i am familiar with this news of t.A.T.u. no longer existing only indirectly, i.e. through the forum. i dont have time to stay in touch with every bit of tatu information so it's difficult to believe any of this. it just all seems very ridiculous, to believe. i havent seen the last few episodes and i can't really have an honest reaction about the situation.

Lena410

24-02-2004, 07:01

Ill vote for them as long as I dont get an official information that lena and yulia aren't tatu anymore. *nods* that's what Ill do. Cause even if they are fighting it doesn't mean that they have already broken up.

haku I kind understand how you mean your logic but I still feel like your undermining Lena's message with it. *shrugs* she obviously wanted and wants us to vote.

Rob

24-02-2004, 16:31

Until there's an official statement that Y/L are not tATu anymore I'll vote for them.

Besides I think that both wanna stay tATu - Yulia's "mi tATu, mi tATu" and the fact that both of them obviously feel responsibility to their fans, as Lena went to the MTV Asia Awards and as Yulia said on her birthday.
But they want tATu without Ivan.
On some level I regret that he obviously isn't able to work anymore as he did in the first years of tATu.

Unplugged

24-02-2004, 16:55

. . . I was just wondering. Will we ever see them kiss again? Will there ever be another display of affection toward each other? There seems to be so many things that are behind them now.

Well, I think the kiss will always be a part of ATTSS, so I think it would still make sense if they kiss if they perform that song.
On the other hand, if the group goes on and they keep hugging and touching each other all the time for the cameras or in their concerts, it'll be a little ridiculous.

haku

24-02-2004, 17:09

Originally posted by bpro50
I was just wondering. Will we ever see them kiss again?
Personally i hope we'll never see them kiss again. Now that we know that it was all fake from the beginning, it's just ridiculous.

Those kisses were carrying strong emotions and a message, everything is gone now, all that remains is a cheap way to attract attention.

I can't even watch the old kisses now, they feel empty and vain, all the beautiful emotions have disappeared. :none:

thegurgi

24-02-2004, 17:21

I can't even watch the old kisses now, they feel empty and vain, all the beautiful emotions have disappeared.

really Haku? I always felt they represented much more. But i guess most people never got the point when it was "real" anyway. I wouldn't mind if they kissed during All the Things She Said, the kiss is part of the act of that song, it's what the song is about, and a imagery of the kiss conveys that emotion, even if they kissees aren't themselves what they are displaying. But wait, most people refuse to believe that representation is still just as horrible as anything else in the first place [cause it's not REAL]....

Rob

24-02-2004, 17:32

Originally posted by bpro50
. . . I was just wondering. Will we ever see them kiss again? Will there ever be another display of affection toward each other? ...

Time will tell, but I do think signs of affection will be there as I do believe that they are close, not in a romantic way, but still close.

Concerning the kiss - they didn't kiss during the 2nd concert in Tokyo and still it was obvious that they were close.

bpro50

25-02-2004, 02:42

Originally posted by thegurgi
really Haku? I always felt they represented much more. But i guess most people never got the point when it was "real" anyway. I wouldn't mind if they kissed during All the Things She Said, the kiss is part of the act of that song, it's what the song is about, and a imagery of the kiss conveys that emotion, even if they kissees aren't themselves what they are displaying. But wait, most people refuse to believe that representation is still just as horrible as anything else in the first place [cause it's not REAL]....

I disagree. If those kisses were not real, if that was not genuine affection and nothing but merely "an act" then I don't have a clue what reality is any more and I've gone blind. Those times of affection were so sweet, so beautiful and touching that I just can't get over them. I suggest you go back and watch them one more time. There is one video that captured all of their acts of love toward one another in one song and it is so moving that it may be one of the most beautiful expressions of feeling between two people I have ever seen. Please look again.

thegurgi

25-02-2004, 03:33

bpro50, i was disagreeing with Haku.

I don't think [and never really thought] that they are lesbians, but i thought and think that they meant something when they kissed, not for themeselves but for others. Even IF it wasn't intentional, it represented something much more. They are actresses. Actresses have kissed each other with as much emotional and angst in the past... and they represented something for the characters. And no matter what, that song is about those emotions, and the girls sing and do whatever they can to get those emotions across. So, i wouldn't mind.

But, bpro50... i hope you still don't think that they are, cause, i wouldn't live in denial [just live like Denial, cause she rocks!] and i've been watching those videos for nearly 2 years... i don't think i need a Refresher...

cirrus

25-02-2004, 05:40

actresses: that's how i felt thegurgi :rose: Y&L were playing parts, which didn't make it any more fake than a move. They were characters who played in a relationship. What I think is funny is how the West was unable to combine the idea of "acting" into the music world. Here, so many people criticize someone for being fake, not genuine, a creation. But in a time when image matters so much, it's just taking the truth and not altering it....but recreating it into a new reality....like a movie. To say Yulia and Lena were acting is a very accurate statement.....they made something, a very creative effort, and all people had to do was take it or leave it. As soon as people took it too seriously, it became a problem.

sorry, i dunno where i'm going with this. :o

haku

25-02-2004, 06:02

thegurgi
I know that what you're saying is the truth and the right way to see things... actresses playing a part, yes.
I was only talking about what *i* am feeling, or not feeling that is. I am no longer able to connect with their acting, but maybe with time i'll see things like you.

And cirrus
Well, everything is so fake here in the west, all bands are fabricated. I guess that when we saw that band coming from the east, some of us hoped that it would be rawer, more genuine, not tainted by the music industry...
Oh well, the illusion lasted a year for some of us, it's not that bad. But yeah, in the end they are like western pop bands, no real difference.

Ooh and happy 666th post! *evil grin*

Lena410

25-02-2004, 07:02

haku, I disagree that they are like western pop bands. *shakes head vehemently*

There *is* a difference. Always was and always will be. :gigi:

skye

25-02-2004, 17:48

Originally posted by bpro50
. . . I was just wondering. Will we ever see them kiss again? Will there ever be another display of affection toward each other? There seems to be so many things that are behind them now.
If they have to sing the song"All the things she said" and answer would be yes...they are now still playing the roles of tATu :none: :rolleyes: but if it appears again, I may avoid to see it because it's an act which DID hurt the fans who defensed them being "lovers" :ill: :bum:
Whatever, :rose: for sunny poison,and hare for the report and the latest song :rose:

xena225

25-02-2004, 18:09

Originally posted by skye
but if it appears again, I may avoid to see it because it's an act

Yulia: "We are always the same: at home, on the stage, and
when we are together. I often read in newpapers that Vanya
(Ivan Shapovalov, t.A.T.u.'s producer) makes us kiss on the
stage, sing about lesbian love, and then we cry quietly in the
dressing room, cursing our fate. It's bull sh*t. We are the way
you see us." (Molotok 2/2004)

xena225

haku

25-02-2004, 18:46

Originally posted by xena225
Yulia: "We are always the same: at home, on the stage, and when we are together.
That's actually kinda sad if they can no longer tell the difference between their acting on stage and their real lives, but i don't believe that one second. This is a typical Tatu statement, ambiguous and meaningless.

Ambiguous because when they perform ATTSS on stage, they are playing the roles of two lesbian lovers. By saying that they are the same off stage, they continue to hint that it may also be the case in their real lives.

Meaningless because we have now overwhelming proofs that they *are* different off stage. Those statements have become just plain ridiculous.

I often read in newpapers that Vanya (Ivan Shapovalov, t.A.T.u.'s producer) makes us kiss on the stage, sing about lesbian love, and then we cry quietly in the dressing room, cursing our fate. It's bull sh*t. We are the way you see us." (Molotok 2/2004)
I have no trouble believing that. Of course they don't cry in the dressing room LOL. They are actresses and they are getting paid (though irregularly) to get the job done.

coolasfcuk

25-02-2004, 18:52

Im sorry but i just have to comment on this:

Originally posted by xena225
Yulia: "We are always the same: at home, on the stage, and
when we are together. I often read in newpapers that Vanya
(Ivan Shapovalov, t.A.T.u.'s producer) makes us kiss on the
stage, sing about lesbian love, and then we cry quietly in the
dressing room, cursing our fate. It's bull sh*t. We are the way
you see us." (Molotok 2/2004)

xena225, the keyword here is 'the way you see us' ;) ...

Too bad Yulia and Lena are not together at home... or anywhere besides where they have to be because of work ! And lately, as we see in this episode, they arent together that much even for work when they have to :eek: LoL

...besides Ivan doesnt have to make them kiss anymore..... Ivan cant do anything anymore LoL ... besides to tell you 'great philosophical thoughts' .. such as: a person wants to understand? what understand.... and how does he know that he understands that he wants to understand... why understand.... he doesnt understand that he wants to understand... what is there to undnerstand.... there is no future... and there is no past..... do you understand? :lol:

...but yes.... they are the 'way you want to see them' ....

Lena410

25-02-2004, 20:45

:rolleyes:
really Im always suprised the way some of you guys can interpret things in the for me most illogical way *shakes head* this is starting to be sad..very sad.

honestly I never in ATTSS noticed that its about lesbian lovers. I could have sung that with my best friend and we never were a couple. *lol*

haku, honestly I'm *very* suprised to hear such an generalising cruel remark from you. This really makes me hope that Ill never get on the wrong side of you, which is a scary thought.

xena225

25-02-2004, 23:47

This post-"Anatomy" quote by Ms Volkova clashes with some of those neat post-"Anatomy" theories, doesn't it?

Oh well.

xena225

Unplugged

26-02-2004, 01:39

That's actually kinda sad if they can no longer tell the difference between their acting on stage and their real lives, but i don't believe that one second. This is a typical Tatu statement, ambiguous and meaningless.

Ambiguous because when they perform ATTSS on stage, they are playing the roles of two lesbian lovers. By saying that they are the same off stage, they continue to hint that it may also be the case in their real lives.

Meaningless because we have now overwhelming proofs that they *are* different off stage. Those statements have become just plain ridiculous.

I agree.

Too bad Yulia and Lena are not together at home... or anywhere besides where they have to be because of work ! And lately, as we see in this episode, they arent together that much even for work when they have to

Yeah, exactly... :laugh: :done:

"We're the same on the stage and at home" - yeah, at home Yulia fcuks her boyfriend and cuts his nails, and on the stage she hugs Lena, holds her hand and kisses her - pretty similar :rolleyes:

"Oh well"... :rolleyes: :p

Kate

26-02-2004, 01:50

Julia and Lena tells lies about lies about lies... :rolleyes: And then they go and lie that their project is about "truth and love and honesty". Whatever. :bebebe:

kishkash

26-02-2004, 02:25

Quite the predicament they are in i c *strokes beard pensively* yesssssssss

skye

26-02-2004, 03:03

Originally posted by xena225

Yulia: "We are always the same: at home, on the stage, and
when we are together. I often read in newpapers that Vanya
(Ivan Shapovalov, t.A.T.u.'s producer) makes us kiss on the
stage, sing about lesbian love, and then we cry quietly in the
dressing room, cursing our fate. It's bull sh*t. We are the way
you see us." (Molotok 2/2004)

xena225
oh...yeah.....even they are lovers, why not spend time together on Valentine's day but with boyfriend :rolleyes: bad bad lover....:rolleyes:

coolasfcuk

26-02-2004, 03:22

Originally posted by xena225
This post-"Anatomy" quote by Ms Volkova clashes with some of those neat post-"Anatomy" theories, doesn't it?

:eek: :hmmm: :none:

I am not sure what to say anymore ..... what 'neat' theories (not to mention the work neat just drives me nuts) .... what quote .... did you get recite that Yulia said that? when did she say it?

Im sorry im gonna stick to this "quote" from Yulia for a while longer:

Yulia: "We are always the same: at home, on the stage, and when we are together.
Yes they are always the same... every single day... Monday is like Tuesday is like Wednesday is like Thursday is like Friday is like Saturday .... at home Yulia walks aroun in big sleepers and underwear and fixes her hair...Lena smokes in the hallway and talks on the phone, hangs in the kitchen.... on stage...well, their stage presence lately is kind of non existent.. but yes, usually there is some plan made for what the show would be about and they execute it... and when they are together... well like i already said - that's not that often lately

I often read in newpapers that Vanya
(Ivan Shapovalov, t.A.T.u.'s producer) makes us kiss on the
stage, sing about lesbian love, and then we cry quietly in the
dressing room, cursing our fate.
Well, if someone still thinks that Yulia and Lena came up with what they sing about in their album or the kiss stage show :eek: ,.... i am speechless, because by now it is definately a 'fact' (as people here wanna call lit) that it was Ivan and Kiper that came up with all that :)

It's bull sh*t. We are the way
you see us." (Molotok 2/2004)
and this is where it got all ... :laugh: ... sure its bullsh*t ... ;) Yulia and Lena are happy people that love eachother.. love Ivan... love to work with him.. are working in Podnebesnaya ..recording new album... planning their future t.A.T.u. concerts... and so ooooooooooooooooon :p

....but ....lets just waaaaaaaaaaaait and seeeeeeeeee ....ha ha

*continues sitting here, while my beard keeps growing... and growing... and groooooooooooooowing* :dead:

Kate

26-02-2004, 04:15

coolasfcuk, yeah... Tatu's fans are professionals in "Wait And See" department. Let's call it "W.A.S" from now on. [Pronounced - "wass"]

"Let's W.A.S." Sounds a bit cooler. :gigi:

thegurgi

26-02-2004, 05:01

"Let's W.A.S." Sounds a bit cooler.

I second that Miss Beidar,

I certainly will W.A.S.

Lux

26-02-2004, 05:20

dear yulia,
i still obsess over you fanatically, despite your statements that reflect obvious cluelessness to how your remaining fans see you.

Lux

katbeidar - fo rizzle. W ta da A ta da Sssss

xena225

26-02-2004, 09:12

Originally posted by Lux
dear yulia,
i still obsess over you fanatically, despite your statements that reflect obvious cluelessness to how your remaining fans see you.

Speak for yourself, luv. ;) No generalizations, please.

I'm completetly astounded by some of the comments regarding this quote here. This is astonishing, even for Tatysite. Open your minds, people! I'm sure if you read this quote with a truly open mind again, you'll see that it means something completely different than what the majority here makes it out to be. Though some interpretations do deserve a compliment, as I think it's amazing what some people read into it. Most fascinating. :done:

xena225

Kate

26-02-2004, 09:36

xena225, Open your minds, people!

Likewise. :)

haku

26-02-2004, 10:50

There is a short report for Episode 11 on the home page of Podnebesnaya.

Basically it says the same thing as sunny poison's report.

Like sunny poison said they could have sent a tape to MTV Asia instead of going, but the message had to be in English and Yulia refused to speak in English.
That's probably why MTV didn't accept the tape.

dollparts3000

26-02-2004, 11:33

Just because Lena and Yulia aren't together, doesn't mean they don't like to kiss or do other things. Just because Yulia has a boyfriend, does not mean that she doesn't fool around with girls. lol. :)

haku

26-02-2004, 12:08

Originally posted by dollparts3000
Just because Lena and Yulia aren't together, doesn't mean they don't like to kiss or do other things.
LOL, yeah, i'm sure they have hot steamy sex in the dressing room. :rolleyes:
You see, that's the problem with Tatu. When we see a movie, we don't wonder if the actors have real feelings for each other, but with Tatu, we always go back to "They can't be acting, there has to be something real there!"
Tatu didn't get that kind of reaction in the east, but in the west people took them too seriously when it was just meant to be entertainment.

Just because Yulia has a boyfriend, does not mean that she doesn't fool around with girls.
Yulia has been with Pasha for 2 years, she doesn't seem to be the kind to sleep around, but i may be wrong.
Anyway, Pasha is a regular guy, i'm sure he wouldn't mind watching his girlfriend have some action with another girl.

Rob

26-02-2004, 12:43

... When we see a movie, we don't wonder if the actors have real feelings for each other, but with Tatu, we always go back to "They can't be acting, there has to be something real there!"
Tatu didn't get that kind of reaction in the east, but in the west people took them too seriously when it was just meant to be entertainment.
When I look at some videos, I think they were enjoying themselves.
Someone else might have a different opinion on this.
Anyway it's not like this is the world's most important question. :rolleyes:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I don't see much sense in this ongoing "war" here. But knock yourselves out. :cool:

la aurora

26-02-2004, 15:58

Originally posted by coolasfcuk
...besides Ivan doesnt have to make them kiss anymore..... Ivan cant do anything anymore LoL ... besides to tell you 'great philosophical thoughts' .. such as: a person wants to understand? what understand.... and how does he know that he understands that he wants to understand... why understand.... he doesnt understand that he wants to understand... what is there to undnerstand.... there is no future... and there is no past..... do you understand? :lol:

Yeah... I do understand, actually :lalala:
He was just saying that "ppl don't understand that they don't have to understand what they try to understand". Easy :gigi:

hey, guys. Do u even realize that what u are doing here is 'stating ur baised opinions on baised opinions of others (me, or whoever else providing u information on the show u haven't seen) on Mansky's baised view on the things going on in Pednebesnaya (which can be directed by Shap itself)'?
You are taking litle quotes and build concepts on them forgetting about the whole concept. I don't think it's a right thing to do.

They (well, Ivan mostly) tried to cure you from what u are doing now actually - from making fast decisions and sticking to ur own opinion. They tried to show that there's nothing in this world u can be sure of. That there are different ways to see one situation, interpret one word. That nothing is really what it seems. And this Reality Show itself can be just the part of the plot. This Saturday we'll see the last episode. Less then 2 days to wait. I dunno why they planned only 1 episode for this weeked. they had enough time to make 2. Guess it's either STS channel decision or Mansky thinks 1 episode will be enought to set the final point.
It can be a usual episode telling about what was going on in Podnebesnaya this week. But it can be the end also. I mean the end of soap opera. And many guys on russian forum (Fly Dream, who actually WAS in Podnebesnaya and met Ivan, included) believe it will be a happy one. That the most realistic looking reality show can be the biggest mistification that took place on TV last years. Why the biggest one? Well... coz it seemed more real than anything else. But maybe what was going on there is true and then we'll see the end of TATU. And maybe we'll see nothing... and Mansky will just write 'the show is over. the story is not'. Lets wait and see... :rolleyes:

Lena410

26-02-2004, 16:09

Originally posted by haku
Tatu didn't get that kind of reaction in the east, but in the west people took them too seriously when it was just meant to be entertainment.

how the hell do you know how people in the east took them or didnt for that matter?

honestly in they were in my opinion taken much more seriously in the east than in the west. it was western media that made a joke out of them not eastern.

I'm still amazed how you can just shrug and generalize *so* many people in such a way.

EDIT: sunny poison you are sooo right. I agree with you completly. *nods* :D tatu is about open-mindedness.

cirrus

26-02-2004, 16:38

It's a Forum. What's the point of just waiting and seeing when you can't discuss? :p

I guess we have to remember that with Tatu, you can't take anything too seriously. What we thought was real or close to it was a complete fabrication.....could be the same with current events

haku

26-02-2004, 17:33

sunny poison

I think the reason why people believe your reports is because back in the old days, when some of us on the English side were vehemently stating that Y&L were a couple in love, you were among those Russians who tried to explain to us that we were taking Tatu too seriously, that Y&L were "normal" girls (remember those debates on the meaning of "normal"?), that they were not lesbians, had boyfriends, and were just doing their jobs, nothing more.

So now people are thinking that since you were right then, there's no reason to not believe you now. :)

But don't worry, if saturday night it is revealed that the Reality Show was just a scam, that in fact they've been recording the second album secretly, people won't be crushed like after Anatomy. Sure, some more people will probably leave the forum, like after Anatomy, but most people will laugh (it *is* a sitcom after all, we should laugh). :D

QueenBee

26-02-2004, 17:53

*Laughs* ;)

bpro50

26-02-2004, 18:55

And so it does all goes back to the *kiss* that started this in motion in the first place. Yul says, "we are who we are", and to some of us, two girls that french kiss in front of the world while making "goo-goo" eyes and laying into each other in their underwear seem like bonifide lesbians. While to others, they are just two girls in an act that are in a close friendship and have special feelings toward each other. If we are truly open minded, we would look within or at any two people in a special friendship and make the same analysis: we are all somewhere near that line of feelings and sexual tension that we experience in any meaningful relationship. And it is that dialetic that takes us all to another synthesis that looks at "open-mindedness" and "true sexual identity". I am just glad that Tatu has made all of this introspection and analysis possible without even knowing their part in the drama that is being played out across all society even as we speak. It all began with a *kiss*!

haku

26-02-2004, 19:42

Originally posted by Lena410
I'm still amazed how you can just shrug and generalize *so* many people in such a way.

Here's a quote from that "recent" interview.
Lena: Russia. In the west, people are very inhibited. It's hard to "unwind" them.
Yulia: There, people come to concerts to estimate the quality of the show, lighting, scene, etc. The people just stand there and stare at us without any emotions. But in Russia people come to concerts to hang out
Y&L are also generalizing there (they are basically saying that western fans suck). If they can generalize, so can i.

honestly in they were in my opinion taken much more seriously in the east than in the west. it was western media that made a joke out of them not eastern.
I said that the west took Tatu *too* seriously, which did not mean that the east took them as a joke. The east took Tatu seriously as an entertainment act (nothing wrong with being an entertainment act). I meant what i said as a compliment actually, people in the east saw Tatu for what they are, they understood what the band was about. You said it yourself in another post, you never thought that ATTSS was about lesbian love, you understood.

In the west, a lot of people thought that ATTSS *was* about lesbian love, we took them for some kind of gay rights militants, we were expecting much more from them (that's why i said we took them *too* seriously). We were expecting them to make strong and articulate statements about gay rights, instead we got ambiguous statements and Ivan's ramblings on whatever it is he's talking about.

It's all a big misunderstanding.

Lena410

26-02-2004, 19:59

haku, ok I understand now. I still think that there are eastern fans who actually also think/thought they were a couple. I just don't know anyone who was too affected by whether his private image of them matched reality. I'm just careful with saying that I understand fully what their songs messages or their message is. Because I think that there are so many things one can interpret into it that limiting the thing to one would completly ruin the whole picture.

the quote from yulia. well shes right. there is a different mentality when people who go to concerts and what they want from it in the west and in the east. I guess that I was jumpy because you come from the west and the western opinion of eastern people is a *very* touchy subject. Especially when you are living right at the border like I am. Plus if I would be talking to yul and she would generalize then I would also tell her that she cant say that like that :p :D thats just a reflex since I hear that from our teachers day in and day out.

thanks for clearing your message :rose:

haku

26-02-2004, 20:20

No problem :rose:

Originally posted by Lena410
I guess that I was jumpy because you come from the west and the western opinion of eastern people is a *very* touchy subject.
Well, to be honest, i no longer see Slovakia as an eastern European country. I'm old enough to have known the cold war and the limit between eastern and western Europe was only valid during that period. Before WWII, that part of Europe was called central Europe (Mittel Europa), those countries became "eastern" only because they became sattelites of the Soviet Union, but now that the Soviet Union no longer exists and that those countries are joining the European Union, i think it's only fair that they be called again central Europe, like before WWII.

la aurora

26-02-2004, 20:43

haku, well... thanks for ur trust... tho I'd prefere to hear u trust my reports just coz u trust me (i never lied to u) and not coz I appeared to be right about them not being lesbians. It could be a pure luck I guessed ;)

And I still insist that my 'normal' meant just 'ordinary, usual etc' and had nothing to do with sexual orientation, coz for me personally gay ppl aren't any less 'normal' than straight ones.

And that's why I think TATU's not making statements about gay rights was the best statement they could do. They didn't act like gay ppl are weak, sick, whatever and need protection. Their idea was they weren't any different from straight ones. That it doesn't matter who u love as far as u are happy. They never said they were gay. I know u can give me many quotes to prove me wrong, but I think they were just a reaction on what ppl on the west (journalists, fans...) wanted them to be. For many ppl the question if they sleep with each other was the most important one. So they were asking about it constantly absolutely ignoring the main message and music itself. And I do understand where those 'we have sex 3 times a day' etc... and joking around came from. It's a normal reaction: 'u want it? u want it so much? ok... take it... just take it and leave us alone. u won, u r happy, aren't u?'
I don't think western ppl took them too seriously. I think their interest was just superficial.
While in Russia Lena and Yulia were just 2 brave and sincere girls, nice, funny and animated... and they were singing cool songs about love and freedom... and sure they weren't lesbians but they seemed to love each other in their cute way, in the West all that mattered was 'are they or aren't they?'.
I think this was something neither TATU, nor Ivan were ready for. These were another rules they had to play by. First it was funny but then became tiresome and painful. It's hard to explain things that seem so obvious for you, its hard to be constantly missunderstood. it's hard to survive in the wold u don't belong to.
Nah, girls didn't say western fans suck. They said they were different from russian ones. And it's true. We do have different menthalities. Russians are ruled by emotions, western ppl use their brain more often. Russians are pessimists always waiting for worst but hoping for good. Westerns are optimists that get really pissed when something bad happens. Russians live for this particular moment and try to get some fun from it (Ivan was right that death feels closer here) and western ppl care about future and analyse every step they make. May be that's why you have more or less comfortable life while we are living in suach an ass and we'll die defending this our right of living in the ass and hoping for good without doing anything to make this 'good' any closer :gigi: . Doesn't mean some of ppl are better than others. Just different.

Ok... enough. I broke my own promise to myself not to deal with mentality thing anymore. I shut up now :rolleyes:

kishkash

26-02-2004, 20:58

May be that's why you have more or less comfortable life while we are living in suach an ass and we'll die defending this our right of living in the ass and hoping for good without doing anything to make this 'good' any closer
:ithink:

Lena410

26-02-2004, 21:09

haku, thanks. I appreciate your opinion. I have given up explaining that geographically Slovakia is in the middle of europe. :p :D It's really good to hear that someone at least knows that. :rose:

la aurora

26-02-2004, 21:12

Originally posted by haku
Like sunny poison said they could have sent a tape to MTV Asia instead of going, but the message had to be in English and Yulia refused to speak in English.
That's probably why MTV didn't accept the tape.

Oh, yeah... I forgot to comment on this one. :gigi:

Not. Yulia didn't refuse to record the thing in English. The whole situation looked kinda like this:
Yulia and Lena were getting ready to tape the thing. No one of managers was around. Just 2 of them and the camera. Then they began to talk about the language they had to record the thing in. Lena said it should be in English. But Yulia was like... 'hmmm... wait... Singapore is Asia, isn't it? They don't have English is a native language there. So may be it would be better if we record the thing in Russian and then those MTV guys translate it directly to their language?' Lena answered that everyone does it in English. Yulia got a little mad saying: 'everyone? so that's how things are now? if everyone does, TATU do the same?'. But then after thinking a bit she suggested to do it in both languages. In her opinion they should say 'Hi. We are TATU' in English together and then Yulia speaks a bit Russian and Lena does in English. Lena agreed. So that was the way it was done it seems. Mansky didn't show how the whole recording looked but it began with 'hi. we are tatu'. and then Yulia said they couldn't attend the ceremony due to personal reasons (wich was true... at least they didn't say that they were working on their album or something like many artists do). So, I don't think language was the reason the tape was rejected. They could record another one if THAT was the problem :dknow:

xena225

26-02-2004, 21:47

Thank you, sunny poison. Your posts are quite enlightening and very informative indeed. :rose:

xena225

haku

26-02-2004, 21:58

Originally posted by sunny poison
haku, well... thanks for ur trust... tho I'd prefere to hear u trust my reports just coz u trust me (i never lied to u) and not coz I appeared to be right about them not being lesbians. It could be a pure luck I guessed
My post was general (i do a lot of those :D ). Me personally, i trust you because you are you. :rose:

And thanks for clearing that language thing. Well, Singapore is a former British colony, and as far as i know, English is an official language there, so i don't really see what Yulia meant by "those MTV guys translate it directly to their language".

la aurora

26-02-2004, 22:05

u are welcome, xena225 :) i try my best, really.

hehe... *takes the flower from Haku* mmmm... glad to hear me is trusted *blushes* :lalala:

as for the language thing... well... lol... it's YOU who knows that Singapore is 'a former British colony'. Yulia doesn't. She was shining with pride for herself when guessed it was in Asia lol The girl isn't too educated... but she meant her best, really lol

Unplugged

26-02-2004, 22:25

La vida es dura y llena de trampas

Lena410, :lol: GREAT QUOTE!

Yulia got a little mad saying: 'everyone? so that's how things are now? if everyone does, TATU do the same?'.

Oh, please :rolleyes: So, if everyone wipes their asses after they take a shit, TATU will have to wipe their asses? Oh, please :rolleyes: That is waaay too normal! :rolleyes:

:p

Rob

26-02-2004, 23:27

sunny poison Thanks for your additional report and as well for your post on the other page - I think there's a lot of truth in it.

nikki

26-02-2004, 23:33

What is this about the girls never saying they were together ? Lena did - she said they were in love and sometimes when you are with someone things don't always go as you expect. It was her and you used to be able to download it off Alta Vista (I think - I'm a bit tired). It was when she was asked if they were together or splitting up by someone on Radio 1. There was also something to do with baths/showers and she said that this was a normal thing to do with your partner when in a relationship.

I know this is off topic. Sorry. Also many people in the UK didn't know they were actresses. The gay rights thing was important but many liked the attitude and the romance, passion etc between the girls and thought it was real. The girls encouraged that view. The time was right for something like this - a real gap in the market but it needed to be real to work. That's partly why some people are so saddened now. To me, there have been so many lies that there is no longer a positive message. I still like the music and the girls but in a different way. Whether this will last ... ?

Thanks Sunny Poison for info, sorry for being so negative. I'm mainly with Haku on this one !

LenochkaO

27-02-2004, 00:01

Originally posted by haku
And thanks for clearing that language thing. Well, Singapore is a former British colony, and as far as i know, English is an official language there, so i don't really see what Yulia meant by "those MTV guys translate it directly to their language".

From my experience, English is far more of a common language in East Asia than Russian is. 10 points to Yul for thinking, minus 10 points for not thinking enough :)

Rob

27-02-2004, 01:55

Originally posted by haku
Well, Singapore is a former British colony, and as far as i know, English is an official language there, so i don't really see what Yulia meant by "those MTV guys translate it directly to their language".
It can hardly be expected that everyone knows about the eventful history of Singapore (british colony, Straits Settlements, japanese occupation, part of Malaysia ...), having that in mind Yulia's comment makes sense.

Besides for example at german Award-shows the video-messages (no matter which language - english, french, italian, spanish ... ) are usually translated for the viewers.

simon

27-02-2004, 02:28

Thanks for your reports, sunny poison! :rose:

I laughed when I read Yulia's chain of logic. It reveals ignorance not just about Singapore ("those MTV guys can translate it directly to their language" - the main language of Singapore IS English), but a more amazing one about Asia and MTV Asia. What bloody language does she think MTV Asia is broadcast in? It doesn't require a detailed knowledge of the history of Singapore to realise that MTV Asia broadcasts in English, not "Singaporese". :D

Whether or not they set out to deceive people? I think you can point to some interviews where they said such ridiculous things that it seemed kind of clear they were kidding. I never understood why red flags didn't go up for everyone. On the other hand, there were other interviews where they didn't do that and those interviews do seem rather deceptive.

Rob

27-02-2004, 02:37

Originally posted by simon
It reveals ignorance not just about Singapore ("those MTV guys can translate it directly to their language" - the main language of Singapore IS English), but a more amazing one about Asia and MTV Asia. What bloody language does she think MTV Asia is broadcast in? It doesn't require a detailed knowledge of the history of Singapore to realise that MTV Asia broadcasts in English, not "Singaporese". :D
The fact that some people here know about Singapore and the languages spoken there (malayian, mandarin, tamil and english), doesn't mean that everyone knows. :cool:

Violane

27-02-2004, 02:55

Originally posted by simon
Thanks for your reports, sunny poison! :rose:

I laughed when I read Yulia's chain of logic. It reveals ignorance not just about Singapore ("those MTV guys can translate it directly to their language" - the main language of Singapore IS English), but a more amazing one about Asia and MTV Asia. What bloody language does she think MTV Asia is broadcast in? It doesn't require a detailed knowledge of the history of Singapore to realise that MTV Asia broadcasts in English, not "Singaporese". :D

Whether or not they set out to deceive people? I think you can point to some interviews where they said such ridiculous things that it seemed kind of clear they were kidding. I never understood why red flags didn't go up for everyone. On the other hand, there were other interviews where they didn't do that and those interviews do seem rather deceptive.

Poor Yul, not too bright but she is pretty funny. The most deceptive interview to me was the one when they were in Italy and that Wal-Mart guy was translating for them. Lena told the story about their "relationship" (quotes like "our parents understood everything and they are ok with the fact we are together.") and Yulia wouldn't kiss the girl because "I love her (lena) and she loves me" Man, they tried really hard in that one to convince everyone they were together (or Lena did because Yulia didn't speak too much). I couldn't tell they were lying at all. It all seemed sincere. I wonder if someone called them on this what they would say. It was pretty direct about what they were trying to convey i.e. we are in love with one another.

la aurora

27-02-2004, 03:04

she said they were in love and sometimes when you are with someone things don't always go as you expect
well... in Russian there's no difference between 'being IN love' and just 'love'. I don't know if it was said in russian or english (in wich Lena isn't good enough to see the difference also). Anyway, what she said is true... sometimes things don't always go as u expect. Don't u agree?

baths/showers... she said that this was a normal thing to do with your partner when in a relationship
isn't it true as well? ;)

most of the time they were saying general things without saying those were about them personally. But hey, I'm not going to argue with you here. It would be plain stupid of me to do that. If u read my post atttentively, u'll see that I don't claim 'they never said they we in love'. I just tell you they had their reasons to say that.

As for the language... Yulia didn't know english was official language in Singapore. Sue her. It just happened so that the girl didn't have chance to get a proper education... u see... she was just working as a horse recording the songs u like so much now and giving 2-3 concerts a day (yeah, they worked really hard those years in Russia). But even with this, she didn't think Russian was the main language in Asia. The just thought as english wasn't native neither for them, nor for ppl in Singapore, it would be better to record the thing in russian... as it would be easier for them to express what they mean... if the thing should be translated anyway. And of course it was a real crime from her to suppose that MTV Asia broadcasts in any popular asian language :rolleyes:

U are geeting so bitter even on such liitle details... I dunno... it seems that every word I say... just gives u the reason to bash them even more. I'm glad the show is almost over and I'll have to write just one more report. Coz I think u'v got enough things to discuss already. *sigh*

nikki

27-02-2004, 05:16

Not bashing you at all. I only know a little Russian so I was always impressed by Lenas English. I think she knew what she meant. There is a difference between just being close friends and what they did during interviews. A friend has just pointed out that this was an interview where she said that they were fed up of people wanting to know about their private life. They wanted people to listen to the music. But one day they would show people their other sides or something. We were also told that pasha was Yulias minder. I think some of this is interesting in view of what is happening now.

Will not say any more after these last couple of things. I do think they were different things in different countries. I also don't think our press did them any favours either.

Looking forward to your next post.

RowerB

27-02-2004, 06:33

Thanks for your reports sunny poison.
Originally posted by simon
I laughed when I read Yulia's chain of logic. It reveals ignorance not just about Singapore ("those MTV guys can translate it directly to their language" - the main language of Singapore IS English), but a more amazing one about Asia and MTV Asia. What bloody language does she think MTV Asia is broadcast in? It doesn't require a detailed knowledge of the history of Singapore to realise that MTV Asia broadcasts in English, not "Singaporese".
I don’t think you think you really believe this simon. You’re just using this as another reason to attack tatu but if anyone said you were not telling the truth, you’d do doubt mock them saying “It was obviously a joke” as you always do when you get caught out.

Lena410

27-02-2004, 07:02

staringelf, thanks! :gigi: love that quote myself :nod:

I think it was cute that yul concidered which language to use. *nods* honestly if I were them then I would use russian for every non-explicitly english speaking country. Because *they* are russian.

xena225

27-02-2004, 09:08

Originally posted by sunny poison
U are geeting so bitter even on such liitle details... I dunno... it seems that every word I say... just gives u the reason to bash them even more.

If you hadn't written this, I would have. EVERYTHING they do is twisted until it can be turned against them in one way or another, it seems. The fact that she took a lot of time to do this video clip to thank the fans personally NOW gets turned into "Yulia is so stupid for not knowing Singapore was a British colony once, hahaha, poor little dumb girl". How suave, how superior. :rolleyes:

I'm not gonna get into a "Yulia is intelligent - no, she's not - yes, she is" debate here, as this is wasted time anyway, but consider this:

The girl is 19 years old and she is a millionaire with world fame.

How many 19-year-old millionaires with world fame are on this forum, I wonder?

Thanks again, sunny poison - your reports and thoughtful comments are always a joy to read, even if I don't always agree with you. But your comments are so informed and stated in such matter-of-fact way that they always make me sit back and consider things I wouldn't have considered otherwise. Thank you! :rose:

xena225

P.S. I'm guessing the "19-year-old millionaire"- remark will be turned against Yulia as well really quickly. Oh well. Knock yourselves out. :D

haku

27-02-2004, 09:48

Originally posted by xena225
The girl is 19 years old and she is a millionaire with world fame.
How many 19-year-old millionaires with world fame are on this forum, I wonder?
Well, since i'm the one who started the language thing and made the remark about the former British colony (I don't remember calling Yulia dumb or stupid though, and i don't think i've ever said i was superiorly intelligent)...

Yes, Yulia is half my age and she already has much more money than i will ever have, she has a boyfriend, a special friendship with Lena, and thousands of people who love her around the world. Not to mention that she actually has a social life and doesn't spend hours online everyday.

I have no problem to admit that her life is much more succesful and fulfilled than mine will ever be.

Kate

27-02-2004, 09:50

xena225, just because Julia made fame and millions out of lies and poor acting doesn't mean she is intelligent. If she got a scholarship to Harvard at 19, it would have been a complitely different story. She, on the other hand, will be left with her millions (which is still a question), without education what-so-ever before she will turn 20. Let's wait and see.

the most important thing to me.]

Most of the things about Tatu are not negative, they are just pathetic and funny (because they are so very very sad). That's all.

And that, my friends, is my personal opinion, NOT A FACT. So save that arguement for another time. :heh:

nath

27-02-2004, 10:04

Originally posted by katbeidar
. just because Julia made fame and millions out of lies and poor acting doesn't mean she is intelligent. If she got a scholarship to Harvard at 19, it would have been a complitely different story. .....

the most important thing to me.]

I always have a great interest and a big smile on the face in reading your posts Katbeider , especially when they are about general subjects concerning LIFE.....
You give me taste to study again Philosophy....and the big questions :
"What is for you the definition of INTELLIGENCE?"
"What is for you the definition of EDUCATION?"
.....Yeah! Definitively, I Love TATYSITE !.....you discover inside such.....incredible things......:D

Kate

27-02-2004, 10:12

sunwalk, of course, there are different types of intelligence, and I am sure when it comes to "Julia Volkova" type of intelligence, she knows who to sleep with in order to get a contract done [just kiddin']. But, for myself personally, I prefer intelligence as in scientific knowledge. Usually a degree in History, Chemistry, Astronomy etc defines intelligence for me. :D

P.S. I love TatySite.net as well. We have such a great diversity of opinions here. :D

Bitty2002

27-02-2004, 11:08

katbeidar, I agree, fame and millions doesn't make anyone intelligent. I don't think that was what Xena was getting at. And I don't think either of them is stupid. No, they are not geniuses, but who really likes geniuses? They are usually rather reclusive and a bit sketchy.

And, let me start by saying that I love my country, and if anyone disses it I will get pissy, BUT the US is not the best with teaching its people world news and info. I had no clue Singapore used to be a British Colony. I would have probably had the same thinking as Yulia. Yes, I would think a lot more people in Singapore spoke English compared to Russian, but if I felt I could communicate better in my native language, what is the harm? Now for any intelligent person knowing that MTV Asia would be in English, that is a bit presumptuous. Yes, when you think about it, it makes sense. English is becoming the Universal language. I get so confused. Mixed messages. I have so many people telling me that Americans and the like need to get over themselves and stop assuming that world revolves around them. Then, people are supposed to assume it does. Maybe I should feel stupid for not knowing about Singapore. And thank you everyone for all the rude things you said about Yulia, because I took them personally as well, since apparently I am also too stupid to realize all these things. Being stupid isn't anything I have ever thought I was...now uninformed, sure. Aren't we all a little uninformed at times? I would say every one of us had a different world history class.

And katbeidar, I left high school early and started college when I was 16, and got scholarships to MIT, Harvard...I could go on. I am 19 and a 5th year student at university. I am not trying to be arrogant, but would you be my fan?

simon

27-02-2004, 11:25

Originally posted by sunny poison
As for the language... Yulia didn't know english was official language in Singapore. Sue her. It just happened so that the girl didn't have chance to get a proper education... u see... she was just working as a horse recording the songs u like so much now and giving 2-3 concerts a day (yeah, they worked really hard those years in Russia). But even with this, she didn't think Russian was the main language in Asia. The just thought as english wasn't native neither for them, nor for ppl in Singapore, it would be better to record the thing in russian... as it would be easier for them to express what they mean... if the thing should be translated anyway. And of course it was a real crime from her to suppose that MTV Asia broadcasts in any popular asian language :rolleyes:

U are geeting so bitter even on such liitle details... I dunno... it seems that every word I say... just gives u the reason to bash them even more. I'm glad the show is almost over and I'll have to write just one more report. Coz I think u'v got enough things to discuss already. *sigh*

I'm not trying to bash them. I'm very aware that Yulia left school at 11 or something like that. I don't think she's stupid - just not very well informed about the world. And nor is it the fact that she didn't know that English is the official language of Singapore. What surprised me is that she didn't realise that MTV Asia broadcasts in English and obviously doesn't know about Asian languages - as sunny poison said she was so pleased about knowing that Singapore was in Asia. The "whatever language they speak there" comment is what was so funny for me.

Originally posted by RowerB
I don’t think you think you really believe this simon. You’re just using this as another reason to attack tatu but if anyone said you were not telling the truth, you’d do doubt mock them saying “It was obviously a joke” as you always do when you get caught out.

I'm not out to bash Tatu. Have you actually been reading my posts? I defended Yulia's decision not to go to Singapore. I don't think Tatu are perfect or terrible. They're people and they have their good points and bad points. I just say what I think.

Rob

27-02-2004, 14:29

What surprised me is that she didn't realise that MTV Asia broadcasts in English and obviously doesn't know about Asian languages - as sunny poison said she was so pleased about knowing that Singapore was in Asia. The "whatever language they speak there" comment is ...
Keeping in mind that in asian countries many languages are spoken, like in Singapore 4 languages, and (colonial) history is very different from country to country, it's not clear at all in which language TV-Shows in asian countries are presented.

tATu have been often in Japan, it wouldn't be surprising if one thinks the situation might be the same or comparable with Singapore.

Go out on the street and ask people - such stuff is not "common knowledge" neither here nor in Russia.

convol

27-02-2004, 16:04

I'll first start with thanking sunny poison for bringing these detailed and highly interesting reports to us. :rose: If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have known much about what's going on with Tatu.

I missed this discussion last time, and I'm sorry if I'm too off-topic here. On a meta-level, I agree that intelligence is a very wide concept, and suffice it to say that I don't consider reproduction of knowledge to be very indicative of "higher" thinking. Opening myself up for easy bashing, I think Yulia has shown in several interviews/press conferences that she can be both very witty and clever. I have in mind for instance the Eurovision press conferences, the Barpolsat interview, the Ptyuch interview (simon once made a fascinating analysis on that one :done: ) etc. Think of all the quick replies to journalists, answers with double meanings, paradoxal jokes, the ambiguous game they are playing (generally), bluffing/double bluffing using sarcasm etc.; and even though they are asked the same questions over and over again, their thinking is sufficiently excentric and non-standard to still find ways of approaching the questions in a different and creative manner.

As doteurovision.com (all the better that it's not a Tatu fansite) said about the first Eurovision press conference: "The Press Conference for the Russian Delegation will live in Eurovision folklore and legend for many a year to come. It was, quite simply, the smartest, most impactual piece of playing the media at their own game I have ever seen. Those girls have balls! And boy were they batting them back at the Press as hard as they could! Good on 'em! I am sick of the same standard answers to inane questions at these things given by simpering little upstarts."

Didn't Yulia's former headmaster even say that Yulia had very good grades in the Japanese Broadcaster interview? I can't imagine that she would have been admitted to Gnessin, which is Russia's finest musical education, for nothing. During the first year of Tatu, Yulia was still attending Gnessin before she quit (or was thrown out depending on what sources you read) and apart from this, she has a classical education.

Originally posted by xena225
How many 19-year-old millionaires with world fame are on this forum, I wonder?

:lol:

transcend

27-02-2004, 18:30

I agree with convol. I've never seen Yulia as stupid. Although Lena seems to be the more conventionally clever and intellectual of the two, I believe that Yulia seems to be very smart about people and the subtext of situations. From what I saw of the media stuff they did in the US and the UK (and I saw most of it) she seemed to read the situation very well most of the time and consistently made monkeys out of the interviewers they had to face, in spite of her limited English ability. She also strikes me as somebody who doesn't suffer fools gladly. I think that that's why she sometimes comes across as obnoxious and rude.

As to the trivial Singapore being an English speaking country - well, I'm 32, British, have a first-class degree (so if you want to see having diplomas and degrees as a mark of intelligence, then I am very intelligent) and it was not immediately obvious to me that Singapore would be an English-speaking country.

And sunny poison, I hope it hasn't been too boring or trying for you to type out these lengthy reports on the reality show. You really are very kind to be doing this for us. How come your English is so good?

Unplugged

27-02-2004, 19:43

I don't find Lena or Yulia are stupid. The only thing I could say is that Lena is most of the times more focused on what she is doing, while Yulia has more "fire" in her, she's more impulsive and can say some nonsense just out of the blue, without really realizing it.

They are both clever and intelligent. If they were dumb, the 'lesbian legend' would have been lost way before - it still lasted a couple of years, and probably would have lasted if it weren't for the documentary (at least for some more gullable and addicted fans).

As for their answers to journalists, I don't know how we can say that they were clever giving them and dealing with the situations, because most of the time that were saying what they were told to say (by Ivan, or even Lena Kiper). The whole "lesbian story", etc. They had every detail memorized and repeated the same things - the contradiction of the "we are / are not lesbians" thing was part of it, to create interest ("are they or are they not?") - it was clearly premeditated.
Besides, they never had to answer any complicated or different questions - all questions followed the same pattern and were either about they were doing / had done musically (singles, concerts, whatever) or about their relationship, and they were obviously prepared - it was pretty obvious that when didn't know what to say, they would reply with a question (example: "What do you think?", "Have you boyfriend?" :laugh: ) or say something like "it doesn't matter" or whatever.
I remember for example their Popworld interview in the UK. Everything seemed to go fine until they were asked a not-so-typical-question:
"The first time you kissed was in the video?"
Lena translated the question and Yulia said "Yeah." - which obviously contradicted their story of already having a lesbian relationship when they formed the group and then showing their emotions, their "life", in the video. Lena was quickly aware of the mistake and said "That doesn't make sense, maybe not", and Yulia, also aware of her mistake, said "Maybe not, it's secret". This is just an example of something which is very clear to me - they replied what they were told to reply, they followed a pattern. When they were asked unexpected questions, they never had an accurate answer, they would just start trying to confuse the interviewer or focus people's attention on something else so they could get away with it. Remember Yulia's behaviour in talkshows with the water glasses, always telling the host to "relax" or "calm down" saying there's water right next to them, even if there was absolutely no reason for her to say that because everybody was calm :laugh: (it was a desperate attempt to make it seem like the show had been invaded by 'bad asses' so the hosts would need to try to relax and drink some water) That's also a very good example of how their behaviour was obviously planned and was repeated many times, so I wouldn't really come up to the conclusion they're intelligent by the answers they give on interviews.

transcend

27-02-2004, 20:18

The interview that actually comes to mind in suggesting that Yulia was pretty perceptive in her reading of situations was the Jimmy Kimmel one (I think). Basically, they came on, Don King, Vince Vaughn and Monica Belllucci were already there (all of whom are quite big stars) and it was pretty clear straight away that Kimmel was trying to ridicule them, he made no allowances for the fact that Lena's English was not perfect, and she seemed to get a bit flustered and upset. He also made it pretty clear that the only reason they were on was to provide a bit of cheap girl-on-girl action for the boys to leer at. Well, just before Tatu went on to perform you could see that Yulia and Lena were deep in discussion, Lena still looking a bit upset, Yulia very calm and reassuring. And it was clear that she was telling Lena that when they kissed during the instrumental break in the song, she would cover their faces with her hand, so the audience wouldn't see....which is precisely what she went on to do. I think that was a pretty smart reaction to the situation and I'm pretty sure she wasn't directed to do that by anybody else. I also think you're underestimating how quick off the mark Yulia has been sometimes in responding to interviewers with some witticism or one-liner (particularly in the Russian interviews) and I don't think those have been pre-planned at all.

Unplugged

27-02-2004, 20:25

I also think you're underestimating how quick off the mark Yulia has been sometimes in responding to interviewers with some witticism or one-liner (particularly in the Russian interviews) and I don't think those have been pre-planned at all.

Maybe I am. I don't know. It's secret. :laugh:

No, seriously. :p I was referring to convol's post. I just don't think one can say "Oh, look, they're intelligent, look how they managed their interviews" - sure Yulia's one-liners were funny and had great sense of timing - that was spontaneous, not prepared - but most of the time I believe they were saying things they had been told to say.

How come your English is so good?

Yeah, sunny poison, your English is really good. I mean, Russians aren't exactly famous for speaking good english :heh:

transcend

27-02-2004, 20:38

It's quite sad that we're reduced to discussing things like this and whether or not we knew that English was spoken in Singapore, isn't it? Things ain't what they used to be here! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Reality Show will go out with a bang!

simon

27-02-2004, 20:40

I not just don't think Yulia is stupid, I think she's clever. I don't think that someone who doesn't know that English is the most widely understood language in Asia is stupid, just that they are ill-informed. I found the whole way Yulia was trying to be clever and being tripped up by her lack of knowledge rather cute. :)

I think staringelf is right that they had a lot of it pre-prepared and most of the questions they were asked weren't particularly difficult. But they often (particularly Yulia) came out with witty rejoinders to things that were said. Those surely weren't all pre-prepared. You have to be intelligent to be witty like that. And as convol said, you have to be clever just to make such ambiguous statements. I think Yulia understood the humorous side of what they were doing better than Lena, who tried too hard to be convincing.

The Popworld interview still confuses me. I would think that Yulia is intelligent enough that she would have realised the implications of saying 'yes'. Maybe it was a momentary lapse in her thinking, maybe she just wanted to surprise the interviewers and have some fun. Yulia had looked bored all the way through the interview up to then and was clearly enormously enjoying herself afterwards. It was terribly suspicious, but I don't know whether it shows Yulia as not being so clever, or her as being too clever by half. That was the thing with the MTV Asia video - Yulia was trying to be too clever by half.

Unplugged

27-02-2004, 20:44

I think Yulia understood the humorous side of what they were doing better than Lena, who tried too hard to be convincing.

I agree. Lena tried too hard, she was too dramatic when telling the whole "lesbian story".

convol

27-02-2004, 22:55

Originally posted by staringelf
No, seriously. :p I was referring to convol's post. I just don't think one can say "Oh, look, they're intelligent, look how they managed their interviews"

This was not what I said. I said that I think Yulia has shown that she can be both very witty and clever. The press conferences are good examples, because they had to rely on wits there and they did it really well IMO. I agree that most of the things they say are standard answers, and for this reason you can't really use them to make a point. simon and transcend said it much better though - great messages :done:

Linda16

28-02-2004, 00:52

Sorry, going back to some previous posts by sunny poison.

Originally posted by sunny poison

They (well, Ivan mostly) tried to cure you from what u are doing now actually - from making fast decisions and sticking to ur own opinion. They tried to show that there's nothing in this world u can be sure of. That there are different ways to see one situation, interpret one word. That nothing is really what it seems.

Originally posted by sunny poison
While in Russia Lena and Yulia were just 2 brave and sincere girls, nice, funny and animated... and they were singing cool songs about love and freedom... and sure they weren't lesbians but they seemed to love each other in their cute way, in the West all that mattered was 'are they or aren't they?'.
I think this was something neither TATU, nor Ivan were ready for. These were another rules they had to play by. First it was funny but then became tiresome and painful. It's hard to explain things that seem so obvious for you, its hard to be constantly missunderstood. it's hard to survive in the wold u don't belong to.

I think that these two remarks are extremely important. We can consider that the statement "Nothing is really what it seems" - is one one of the key messages of Tatu. I think it is even more important than the classical "Be yourself. Don't be afraid". Tatu's message is about opening our minds, climbing out of our mental prisons. Have we succeeded in this?

And I believe also that actually Ivan/Tatu were not prepared to face the West. Rules were different, attitudes were different and like sunny poison said "First it was funny but then became tiresome and painful". Maybe this was the main reason behind Ivan's inactivity, boredom and tiredness.

Very good and useful posts, sunny poison!

simon

28-02-2004, 01:45

Originally posted by Linda16
I think that these two remarks are extremely important. We can consider that the statement "Nothing is really what it seems" - is one one of the key messages of Tatu. I think it is even more important that the classical "Be yourself. Don't be afraid". Tatu's message is about opening our minds, climbing out of our mental prisons. Have we succeeded in this?

I was thinking about that earlier this evening. Can we believe Podnebesnaya? Hopefully, Saturday night's episode will reveal if it was all a trick too!

Originally posted by Linda16
And I believe also that actually Ivan/Tatu were not prepared to face the West. Rules were different, attitudes were different and like sunny poison said "First it was funny but then became tiresome and painful". Maybe this was the main reason behind Ivan's inactivity, boredom and tiredness.

I'm not quite sure why the West got so stuck on the idea that it was really terrible if they weren't lesbians, but only pretending to be. I suppose it was because of political correctness. However, lots of lesbian and gay people didn't seem to care as long as the message was positive. It was more the media that wanted to make a scandal of it.

I think another reason may have been the ATTSS video. It confused people because it was politically incorrect in form (schoolgirls in miniskirts making out!) yet politically correct in content (the people who disapprove are the prisoners, the lesbian couple are the free ones). Political correctness is much less important in the East and maybe people just hadn't been troubled about that. sunny poison, Linda16 - what do you think?

What I think really killed Tatu in the West was the notorious statements by Ivan Shapovalov that the Sun published. I don't think that Ivan understood that you can't joke about paedophilia and child pornography. It was a publicity stunt that backfired dreadfully. At best, it revealed that the person behind the concept was extremely cynical. At worst... well you know what they said.

Unplugged

28-02-2004, 02:19

What I think really killed Tatu in the West was the notorious statements by Ivan Shapovalov that the Sun published. I don't think that Ivan understood that you can't joke about paedophilia and child pornography. It was a publicity stunt that backfired dreadfully.

I totally agree. I think he wasn't conscious of how paedophilia is seen in the West. It was truly awful. I'm not sure about this (please correct me if I'm wrong), but I heard that under Russian law there is no distinction between paedophilia and regular pornography. So maybe he wasn't aware that it would be too shocking - I mean, every "shock" has a limit, and he certainly went beyond that limit.

la aurora

28-02-2004, 02:54

First of all 'you are welcome' for everyone who said 'thanks'. Not. It was neither boring nor tiresome to type those posts. First of all I felt I was doing the right thing, as many of U provided lots of material I'd never hear and see even living here in Russia. Thank you. And the second thing is that typing those post I got another opportunity to think about what I've seen one more time, do some analysis and put my opinion in the right words, wich was a practice that never harms. The only reason I said I was glad the show was about to end is that I don't feel very comfortable seeing ppl basing their negative opinions on my mostly positive posts. I feel some kind of guiltiness that I may be didn't express myself well enough and my words were the only source u could base ur opinion on. Thats all. No matter what's going on in my tired mind now, you are getting the report on the last episode tomorrow. That's for sure. [well... if I wan't fall asleep waiting for the show of course :rolleyes: I'll try my best not to. I promise]

Yeah, sunny poison, your English is really good. I mean, Russians aren't exactly famous for speaking good english
Well... thanks... but first of all my english is not even half as good as it could be if I wasn't so lazy and at least bothered to attend english lessons at my uni. Doesn't matter. Just situation changed a bit in Russia. For a long time foreign languages were taught in USSR but teachers were instructed and taught to make their lessons as boring as possible. You know, we communistic a bit here :rolleyes: Then the system failed but teachers... they were still the same... thats why things were changing slowly here. But now when new generation of teachers appeared, young russians speak english pretty good. You can stop any young moscovite and he/she will speak english well enough more likely. My class had 16 students and at least 4 of them spoke english better than me. At my uni the percent of students with good english is even higher. Kids that are 7-10 yo now will speak it even better when reach my age if they aren't better already... give us some time. We have MTV for a bit more than 5 years. We weren't much in computers before. And only now ppl begin to realize that english is something they really can use. It wasn't like this before. When my english teacher at school became mad at us (we were a bit lazy :lalala: ) she gave us old books for the 6th grade (we were in 11th then) and made us to retell the texts written there (usuall practice for old system), it was a serious punishment, I tell you :lol:
I was lucky. I had a great teacher who didn't make me HATE the language like my french and german teachers did. We were just having fun at our lessons talking abot 'sex, drugs, rock-n-roll' (no kidding here). We were USING the language not just LEARNING it. And I need to thank tatysite also. My english improved a lot after I got here.

Huh... Kate, when I was ur age (well... not like I'm much older now, just I'm talking about the time when I was 17 exactly and finished my school), I also thought that the degree was the most important thing on the earth. And 'i'm ready to bite my nails now' (u know what i mean, i think) that I made it the main goal of my life. Just 4 years were enough to understand degree means nothing as far as u aren't happy in life. I don't say U shouldn't study. Do as far as u like it. Just don't see it as 'the most important thing'. There are many other ways to be happy. Now I'd exchange everything for having what Yulia has. I'm not talking about fame. I mean doing something u really like to do in ur life and getting enough money to survive for this. I almost have a degree of the most prestigious uni of the country. And every time someone hears about it, he becomes like 'wow! that's so cool'. And I can't look in his eyes coz *I* know what this degree costs me, and I know I pay this high price for something I don't really need. And degree isn't a measure of someone's intellegance. Trust me in this. I've seen many ppl without good education. They were very interesting to talk with and they were making money ppl with 2 high educations could only dream about.

simon, yeah... ur ideas make sense. It's obvious that Ivan was surprised by reaction TATU got from the West. It was very different from one in Russia. Here nobody got TATU so serious. They were just a pop band, provocative and with this sense of freedome... hard to explain... but nobody was thinking about political correctness here. This thing just doesn't exists in Russia. Anyway, such things as 'paedophilia and child pornography' just didn't pop up in russian minds. TATU were about love, desperation, being missunderstood. Ppl were looking at their facial expressions with emotions and not under their skirts. So, Ivan just didn't realize that ppl on the west took it all really serious. His comments were half-jokes half-provocations. He tried to tell 'hey! this project is about love and fear, life and death and u are talking about paedophilia. What's wrong with you, guys?' But he wasn't smart enough to understand these his comments will be taken not any less serious than the whole thing with TATU. Anyway, I don't think he regrets his own words. He founded TATU to SAY something to ppl. Not for money. So, the audience that refused to understand wasn't a big loose for him. [I don't say girls agree with him on this. Their aims were a bit different, I guess]. He wanted to do something more than just project. It wasn't understood. As well as his words that he doesn't want to record 2nd album. He wanted to record something more than just album, weren't understood also. Everyone is blaming him for delay [Y&L included if the whole Podnebesnaya thing is true], while 'something more than just album' takes a bit more time to do than just usual album :gigi:

Hello Linda16, really glad to see u here ;) Welcome to the forum :rose:
Ur post was just like a breth of fresh air. Finally someone forgets about senseless details and sees the whole concept or at least tries to see... I don't know what's wrong here. Why ppl are so stuck to opposites. Why for some only pure blind love or bitter hating exists? You know... even in black&white movies there are shadows. Oh... ok... i shut up now. I'm a bit tired so can be talking nonsense...

Kate

28-02-2004, 02:57

I think that Tatu didn't make it in the West because their music is just not popular there. They are a Euro-dance group. That's is so not in right now.

cirrus

28-02-2004, 03:55

katbeidar, euro music has never really been "in" in america... and i don't see much demand for russian pop stars in western europe. they acheived something.

You know... even in black&white movies there are shadows.
Very wise words, sunny poison :rose: It's amazing how something as general as a pop band can be looked at so differently based on the culture, the mentality. thanks for your reports. when i start to get drowned in my own thoughts, you show us a different way to look at things. ;)

RowerB

28-02-2004, 06:39

Originally posted by sunny poison
Why for some only pure blind love or bitter hating exists?
For me it’s blind love.
I just feel so privileged they live on the same planet as me.

transcend

28-02-2004, 07:02

I certainly agree with sunny poison's comments about shadows. For me nothing is black and white, everything is just shades of grey - a continuum. Whatever the nature of the two girls' relationship is, it really must be quite complex and may well have gone through different phases.

I also agree entirely with simon regarding the fact that Ivan failed to understand that you can't joke about paedophilia in the UK.

AND (!) I agree with katbeidar that tatu's style of music is not popular at the moment. R n B dominates in the West. Tatu were probably a little bit ahead of their time here.

So there you go...I agree, I agree, I agree. And I almost forgot to mention that I agree with sunny's comments about degrees not being a mark of intelligence, and there being more important things in life. And sleep is one of them...and seeing as I haven't slept in over 24 hours, I'm going to bed!

freddie

28-02-2004, 09:33

If you go trough ALL the vids there are of the girls together (from various different occasions) it's so obvious that the girls truly have/had a very complex relationship, that was quite a bit more then just a business arangement. Otherwise they wouldn't last together for 3 years. Everything imploded cause if Ivan, nott cause of them. As far as they're concearn they could keep this going for another 5-7 years for all we know.

I'd disagree with Euro-music not being popular in America... the new-wave in the 80s brought like a whole FLOOD of eurpean bands that shaped the decade and Billboard charts in that time... Duran Duran, A-ha, Human League, Wham!... it's just that the girls came in at the wrong place at the wrong time, when Rap/R&B rule the sceenes (unfortunately). But that goes for america only... I mean European charts are more diverse and more leaned to retro 80s pop then the American ones. So there's no "musical" limits for them here. But it's obvious that you won't be sucesful if you have NO new material and you cancel concerts. :/

simon

28-02-2004, 10:54

Originally posted by katbeidar
I think that Tatu didn't make it in the West because their music is just not popular there. They are a Euro-dance group. That's is so not in right now.

Maybe we were using 'West' in different senses. I was using 'West' to include mainland western Europe.

I've puzzled about why NGGU was not more successful in the West. NND was the first Tatu song I ever heard and it really impressed me. It's not quite as good as YSSU/ATTSS, but it was still surprising to me that NGGU flopped in the West, particularly when you compare it with what it was up against.

I wondered if the failure was because of a backlash against Tatu after the success of ATTSS.

Originally posted by sunny poison
It's obvious that Ivan was surprised by reaction TATU got from the West. It was very different from one in Russia. Here nobody got TATU so serious. They were just a pop band, provocative and with this sense of freedome... hard to explain... but nobody was thinking about political correctness here. This thing just doesn't exists in Russia. Anyway, such things as 'paedophilia and child pornography' just didn't pop up in russian minds. TATU were about love, desperation, being missunderstood. Ppl were looking at their facial expressions with emotions and not under their skirts. So, Ivan just didn't realize that ppl on the west took it all really serious. His comments were half-jokes half-provocations. He tried to tell 'hey! this project is about love and fear, life and death and u are talking about paedophilia. What's wrong with you, guys?' But he wasn't smart enough to understand these his comments will be taken not any less serious than the whole thing with TATU.

Yes, I think it was all a misunderstanding between cultures. People here mostly seemed to see Tatu entirely in terms of sex and missed the other aspects. I suppose we're just not as soulful as Russians. :heh:

I don't really know why people didn't get the joke of the ATTSS video. Brits (if not Americans) generally have a pretty good sense of humour. However, the country has a hysteria about child abuse that has gradually broadened into a kind of paranoia about teenage sexuality. Maybe they could see the joke, they just thought it was in bad taste and not funny. I'm not sure.

Originally posted by sunny poison
Anyway, I don't think he regrets his own words. He founded TATU to SAY something to ppl. Not for money. So, the audience that refused to understand wasn't a big loose for him. [I don't say girls agree with him on this. Their aims were a bit different, I guess]. He wanted to do something more than just project. It wasn't understood. As well as his words that he doesn't want to record 2nd album. He wanted to record something more than just album, weren't understood also. Everyone is blaming him for delay [Y&L included if the whole Podnebesnaya thing is true], while 'something more than just album' takes a bit more time to do than just usual album. :D

Isn't it the case that Russia has now turned away from the kind of message that Tatu had? Russia is becoming increasingly authoritarian. Look at the recent parliamentary elections and the farce of the current presidential election. Look at the political fuss about Yulia's statements about drugs on Anatomy. I heard that a representative of Putin's supporters also condemned her on tv. Do you think that has had anything to do with what appears to have happened in the last few weeks?

xena225

28-02-2004, 12:51

Originally posted by sunny poison
The only reason I said I was glad the show was about to end is that I don't feel very comfortable seeing ppl basing their negative opinions on my mostly positive posts. I feel some kind of guiltiness that I may be didn't express myself well enough and my words were the only source u could base ur opinion on.
This isn't your fault at all. Many people come to a discussion with a certain attitude, and if a statement is even slightly ambiguous they will interpret it in a way that fits their own opinion. Especially in a debate that is as polarized as the debate here (unfortunately). But you always managed to clear things up nicely if you thought there had been a misunderstanding. So don't worry. :)

Originally posted by sunny poison
nobody was thinking about political correctness here. This thing just doesn't exists in Russia. Anyway, such things as 'paedophilia and child pornography' just didn't pop up in russian minds. TATU were about love, desperation, being missunderstood. Ppl were looking at their facial expressions with emotions and not under their skirts.
That last sentence sums it up so perfectly. I still think there are a lot of people in the West who think tATu was just about cheap titillation - they never took the time to really understand what the group is about. The discussions and comments were and are still so unbelievably shallow and superficial, that it's hard to find a common ground for discussion at all. I agree that maybe Ivan took things too lightly and that his provocations were ill-advised - the mentality question seems to be of extreme importance here. But I also blame the self-righteous arrogant Western media - sniffing at this great project from Russia, this breath of fresh air, their comments often fuelled by xenophobia and homophobia and just plain cynicism - I blame them for not even trying to look beneath the surface, for not even trying to find a different approach.

Originally posted by sunny poison
I don't know what's wrong here. Why ppl are so stuck to opposites. Why for some only pure blind love or bitter hating exists? You know... even in black&white movies there are shadows.
I don't mind strong opinions. As long as people still listen to each other and don't take things to a personal level. New thoughts and ideas seldom spring from the safe middle ground - it takes extremes, it also takes compromise, but most of all people should respect each other and listen to each other.

I respect and appreciate Lena and Yulia a lot. They've entertained me brilliantly for more than a year now (on and off stage), in a real rollercoaster ride. :) Never a dull moment. They are not beyond criticism, nobody is. But to me the positive things definitely outweigh the negative sides. What's really remarkable is that these talented, charismatic young women have left their mark on a lot of people, even on those who show a lot of disdain towards them. Friend or foe, they manage to touch everybody. And that is quite an achievement. The project tAtu, despite its flaws (which are part of their incomparable charm, and possibly a calculated step as well), still has so much to offer.

I really hope it won't end with tonight's episode. :hmmm:

xena225