Do you REALLY like music?

[thegurgi]

In my Design 3-D class, we listen to the radio. And sometimes it gets into discussion about the "music" we are hearing. One girl insists she loves all kind of music, but then proclaims that classical music makes her fall asleep and she can't stand music in other languages. Is it really MUSIC she loves?

Does she truly appreciate the blend of instruments? does she appreciate Key Changes and building layers of sounds leading to it? Does she focus on what's the most important part of the music, being THE MUSIC? Or is all the matter's to her the lyrics.

YES. She doesn't like MUSIC, she likes lyrics. Something she can understand and follow. I watched her, and she sings along only focusing on the LEAST important part. the lyrics.

And when i think back, there are a lot of people like this. TONS of them, who think they like MUSIC, but only truely focus on the lyrics. Not just this girl, bit it then turned out that 75 percent of the class was the same way. And i here this lyric driven crap in my dorm.

My thing is that:

Lyrics should only enhance a song, not make it. A great song should be a balanced, structured, blending of harmonies that move together and flow. It doesn't matter if it's voices, instruments or both. IT would be great.

But now, Lyrics have become so saturated to come to the point that it's only the words that matter, and this is backwords. it's NOT music in a sense, just a poem that has had sound come behind that can be changed at will.

I am speaking PURELY out of the American Public, and this may not apply to other areas. but i am getting sick of it. What ever happened to MUSICAL INTEGRITY! What ever happened to people appreciating the symphony?

I mean, i remember at the last grammy's when they played a great medly of GERSHWIN's symphonies. It was beautiful, and it got a good reception and a standing "O". and then almost right afterwards JA RULE and ASHANTI came on and peformed and when they were finished they got even more applause then Gershwin and a standing o. and there is something wrong with that. and most of those people were just screaming because of who they were, and not because of "The music"

I guess i'll have to realize it's not about music anymore, it's not music. it's industry. it's no longer an art to be respected in this country... something cold and cheap and easy to produce and not to be appreciated. It's why at my school the music program had a 150 dollar budget for both band and choral. And why the music programs are failing all over the country.

Music has been diluted to be something that isn't worth anything, and has ruined it for those who truely care about it.

:: SIGH ::

american's really can be that ignorant. and a lot of them are.


sorry for the rant... but, i'm bothered by this all.

[Echoed]

In one moment, I'm listening to Britney, and then, AFI, and right after, the Kronos Quartet (with compositions by Clint Mansell), a bit of Diana Krall, Nine Inch Nails, Jane's Addiction, Beyoncй, Our Lady Peace, Emma Shapplin and Infected Mushroom. I'll relax to some Chopin and flip to some Punjabi MC or Prodigy, get annoyed half to death by Chingy, but listen to him anyway and finish off with some Sarah McLachlan, or acoustics by Robert Michaels.

I think I like music. :P

~Echo.

[onegai]

I could safely say i like music.
I appreciate all forms of music, classical music being a fourite of mine. Lyrics are important, but not for music, merely for message. And i tend to find classical music can express this very well without any lyrics.

[thegurgi]

YAY! Please more of you restore my faith that there are people who like music !

[QueenBee]

Hmm.. well I donno.. I guess I like MUSIC.. I listen to all sorts of music and artists.. But for example, in Prostye Dvizheniya, they make music out of their voices by singing "ah"'s and "ooh"'s and make melodies out of it.. And I just melt when I hear that :D I love songs with alot of drums etc. 'cause it sounds so powerful.. So I guess it is the music.. Or is it? o.O

[thegurgi]

all that matters is that understanding the song isn't a necessity. And drums are music... a cadence is still music and requires a lot of skill. [excessive and unnessesarry drums, however, are annoying as HELL, haha]

Queenbee, you like music.

[coolasfcuk]

Lyrics should only enhance a song, not make it. A great song should be a balanced, structured, blending of harmonies that move together and flow. It doesn't matter if it's voices, instruments or both. IT would be great.

But now, Lyrics have become so saturated to come to the point that it's only the words that matter, and this is backwords. it's NOT music in a sense, just a poem that has had sound come behind that can be changed at will.

hmmm... I have a different thinking....

First of all - I will just say that I will not list a bunch of 'Classical' composers and say I like music, 'cause I like to listen to them. We are talking about something so subjective - it is just not as simple as night and day ;) And at the other hand- What is really 'music', as in the thing you are talking about.... it could be viewed as pure mathematics - wouldnt you agree? Really bizarre....But, that's not the point....

*gathering my thoughts*

OK - I actually responded here to say: Have you heard of Tristan Tzara??? The Dada movement/Dadaism??? I think you should reseach that a little..... that whole rebelious movement looks at 'words' and lets say, any sort of writing in a completely different way that you think about it ;)
The words become the sounds..they become the harmony...:gigi:

Here is a Dada poem for ya:
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
howl howl howl howl howl howl howl howl
Who still considers himself very likeable

So think of words/lyrics/whatever differently too.

ufff, finally to add... half of those rap songs you talk about... it is so hard for me to understand what they are saying at times... that lyrics dont really matter at that point :gigi: it is all sounds to me

[haku]

I used to listen to songs in English many years before i actually understood that language. I've always considered voices to be instruments, a part of the music itself. If the singers are good, you don't need to understand the words to get the emotions they're expressing. Too many people only listen to songs in their own languages, they hear and understand the words, but do they really get the emotions?

[kishkash]

no one mentioned BOLERO! w00t u go bolero [my fav classical piece since forever...literally]

p.s. i like music :D

I can't NOT not listen to it all the time...if i turn on the TV the first place it goes is Muchmusic. I can't drive a car without the radio or a CD. I can't study without some music in the background. I work with music on ... i live music LOL.

[haku]

Originally posted by kishkash
I can't NOT not listen
Wow, that's a lot of "not"... :p

[Disengage]

I don't think you have to like all genres to "truely like music." I mean if a certain sound rubs someone the wrong way, then that's as far as it goes. It doesn't mean they do not like music at all. And all a "genre" really is is just breaking down music into categories that share a similar sound or style. So if someone just isn't into the overall sound of a certain genre of music, it doesn't mean they "don't really like music" or anything. I agree that lyrics shouldn't completely make a song. I mean by definition I think there has to be some criteria based on sound for there to be music. However, I do think lyrics can play an important role... maybe even enough to break a song. If all of t.A.T.u.'s lyrics were about white power, I definitely would not care for them. While I might think the tunes are catchy, hearing those lyrics along with it would just turn me off too much to like them. I guess this is different from the girl in your class who dislikes all music in other languages, because she's not actually getting any kind of message from the lyrics if she can't understand them... so in this case she would really only have the sound of it to judge. So yeah, maybe you're right about her... but I don't think that disliking a certain genre or liking/disliking a song because of the lyrics necessarily means that someone "doesn't really like music."

[coolasfcuk]

I used to listen to songs in English many years before i actually understood that language.

haku :yes: I guess I was trying to say something in those lines up there.... but with different example, and not very nicely articulated... :gigi:

[freddie]

Originally posted by haku
I used to listen to songs in English many years before i actually understood that language. I've always considered voices to be instruments, a part of the music itself. If the singers are good, you don't need to understand the words to get the emotions they're expressing. Too many people only listen to songs in their own languages, they hear and understand the words, but do they really get the emotions?

That's so true. I remeber listening to Girl From Ipanema in brazilian by Antфnio Carlos Jobim for ages and I don't speak a word of it, yet I somehow understood the melancholy emotions in that song. When I heard the Frank Sinatra version it was almost exactly like I pictured it.
The same with Edith Piaf's "Non Je Ne Regrette Rien". Powerful emotions hide in the raw passion of the spoken word.

But otherwise...yeah I'd agree that we put AWAY to much emphasys on the lyrics while the music is suffocating in eternal loops and special effects (rap, R&B). The whole rap thing has become to big right now, to the point that it really hurts the creativity of music and what it represents.

[kishkash]

im gonna sound like an idiot ... but im gonna say this anyway...

lyrics used to mean nothing to me...still don't really..unless they are so obviously crappy its unavoidable LOL. I never listen to the songwriters "message" in the music through the words.

Classical music was never about lyrics...it was about music. I listen to all songs the same way. So i carried that over to mainstream. The words are a byproduct for me...a way for me to sing the song LOL.

:hmmm: I hope that made SOME sense *feels like she was rambling*

p.s. Haku...i added in one NOT to many lol...if u make a decision tree to work out the meaning of the sentence, u'll realize it was wrong :none: [got a little not-happy] pffffffft.

and yah CaF I've heard of Dadaism and its pretty kewl...just never really got into any of that.

Relating music to mathematics makes perfect sense if u think about it. Each impulse/wave can be represented primitively as a mathematical equation characterized by a sinusoidal wave. Speech is the same way :D

OMG...looks above...im like TOTALLY rambiling in that last paragraph :none: *realizes what a nerd she sounds like and slaps herself* LOL

[thegurgi]

disengage I'm not speaking about genre's... i'm talking about focus. What do you focus on? The words and meaning or the sound? and i would consider THE SOUND to be the music.

and i'm glad freddie agrees with me.

oh, and i completely forgot to mention EMOTION. so thanks for mentioning that haku

also to KishKash
I get that whole thing, except it doesn't have to be music. just, silence drives me crazy [even to sleep i need some kind of white noise]. If i went DEAF, i'd probably literally go insane.
When i hear music, i focus on it, even if it's music i don't like [for instance, right now my neighbor is playing rap music, and i'm listening to it, and slightly focused on it (all i hear is the beat and faint rapping, which isn't the rapping from the song but my neighbor rapping along)]

Oh, And Coolasfcuk, music is mathemetics, think about the first thing you see on your Music, the Key [Treble or Bass] and then The Time, 3/8? 4/4? It's all just numbers, the director counts the beats in that same pattern, 1/2/3/4. Music: The only math i like! and when i talk about the WORDS, i AM speaking in a general mode. And i know DADAISM very well, in fact, in My singing group, we did it. It was fun and sounded great.

[goku]

I do like music. I use programs which you may be familiar with, (Reason, Sound Forge, Fruity Loops) and program my own songs. None of my music has lyrics, it's just based souly on the rythm, sound, layers, etc...

However, I don't agree with your argument in that lyrics take away from the song. Most of the time, what are songs? Songs are poems, and poems can be read aloud without other music. And there are artists who I think are wonderful, and they just sing alone without music. I agree that people who say they like music usually don't, though.:done:

And did Echoed say she was listening to AFI? Haha, they are one of my favorites! :heh:

[thegurgi]

Goku, i didn't say that Lyrics Take Away from the song. I said they should ENHANCE the song and not BE the song.

And when people sing A CAPPELLA, it's very great, and actually very hard. One year in chorus we sang all the songs in A cappella, and it's art in itself. That's the instance where the voice is the essential instrument. And in that point, the lyrics still don't matter, the emotional and the melodies and harmonies are important. The lyrics just extenuate the importance of the emotions. They solidify the emotion of the voice and melodies. It can be a wonderful thing.

And just to make myself more clear.
Lyrics aren't bad. I love lyrics, and i love when they work. But what i am talking about is when they LYRICS become more important then their accompianment. when they Lyrics become what the listener focuses on. Or Just a Lryic and a Beat. It's basically a poem, yes.

i'm also speaking about Musical Integrity too.

oh, and i don't listen to a lot of Classical music either, but i appreciate it, and being a classically trained singer and can play the cornet, i know this genre pretty well. [some songs that are sung are considered CLASSICAL, classical doesn't mean that it's a symphony, it mostly means the age it comes from]

[goku]

Sorry for mis-interpreting you there thegurgi.. Now I completely agree with you.:D

I took 8 years of piano, and in those wonderful years I got a good dose of all types of music. Classical may be one of my favorites to play, actually. I listen to Bach or Mozart every now and then.

[crni]

i most cetrainly like MUSIC :done:
i can listen almost all of the genres of music...from dance, trance, goa, techno, house, rock, metal (trash, black, death), DnB, trip hop, hip hop, ambiental, classic, some jazz...i think the only genres i don't like are punk and blues...
english, german, russian, french...it's all good...it totally doesn't matter what are the lyrics, as long as the feeling is good :D

[taty994945]

i like music but get bored pretty easily. sometimes its better to have silence

[thegurgi]

:: thegurgi looks at taty994945 in horror thinking about the silence ::

good for you CRNI

[Disengage]

Originally posted by thegurgi
disengage I'm not speaking about genre's.

That seemed to be what you're implying by saying that she doesn't like any classical, therefore she doesn't like music. I know it seems a little far-fetched because classical is such a broad genre, but it's possible for someone to just not be into it and still, in gerenal, like music. Although I guess she didn't mean it when she said she likes all kinds of music. I dunno, whatever.

[rivierakid]

I most definitely like music. I can usually get more emotion from the music itself than from the lyrics. The way I see it, the lyrics alone are just poems, and poetry tends to kind of bore me (no offense to all you poets out there). Add music to it, and you've got something totally different. It's the music that makes the song.

I tend to like almost everything, except the majority of rap and hip-hop (I like maybe 5 or 6 of rap songs...). Personally, I like any kind of song I can get emotion from, be it happyness, sadness, anger, etc. That preference tends to be a double-edged sword for me though, since while a happy song will cheer me up when I'm sad, a really emotional, sad song could possibly bring me down a bit. But I love that ability anyway. One of my favorite things is just closing my eyes and getting lost in the music. It's my idea of nirvana. ^_^

*walks off, hoping she made at least an ounce of sense* ^_^;;

[thegurgi]

Disengage, i mentioned that classical made her fall asleep AND she couldn't stand song in forieng languages. It was one thought.

rivierakid, i understand that. and i am the same way.

[skye]

Of course I do LOVE music!!Or I would never know who are tatu, and I won't play so many instruments :) I spent at least 30 minutes to listen music or play the instrument everyday, it's my habit, I almost could say I can't live without music :yes: My life would be meaningless if there is no music !

[crni]

good for you CRNI
thank you ;)

I spent at least 30 minutes to listen music everyday, it's my habit, I almost could say I can't live without music
i DO say i can't live without music :D
i listen to it every minute i can... when i'm home the music plays here ALL THE TIME... and even when i go to sleep i ALWAYS put a cd in my cd player and by the time the cd finishes, i'm asleep :D

[thegurgi]

Originally posted by crni
and even when i go to sleep i ALWAYS put a cd in my cd player and by the time the cd finishes, i'm asleep :D

that wouldn't work for me. the music would just keep me awake, cause i would listen to it. so i don't know if you mean, you fall asleep WHILE the music is playing... or right after the music is playing. cause, that just doesn't work. It's getting rough here the dorm, cause i can always hear some music, and it keeps me awake. gah.

[crni]

i fall asleep WHILE the music is playing.
you see, i don't go to sleep because it's fun, but because i'm tired and need that sleep...so basically i make it through few songs and fall asleep. i don't actually LISTEN to them...they are like background music that just break that awfully silent nights :D

[thegurgi]

i would listen to them, as of no choice of my own. My brain and ears just automatically focus to the music. i only fall asleep to music if i'm utterly exhausted.

[guesshoo]

Originally posted by freddie
But otherwise...yeah I'd agree that we put AWAY to much emphasys on the lyrics while the music is suffocating in eternal loops and special effects (rap, R&B). The whole rap thing has become to big right now, to the point that it really hurts the creativity of music and what it represents.

you had me going until this portion of the post. firstly i would like to say that rap and r&b are the 2 most critized forms/genres of music ever. to me a voice is an instrument. therefore it just as important to the song as the drums, guitar etc.

what is rap?
rap is poetry put to music. it is a form of expression many ppl outside of its culture misunderstand. rap music is normally frowned upon by many b/c of its lyrics. some say b/c of its vulgarity and others say b/c of the promoted violence. unfortunately, those who make this statement are 99% of the time only exposed to mainstream rap. artists like ludacris, chingy, snoop dogg etc. these are only the few that are fortunate to have exposure to the public. there are other rap artist such as nas, de la soul, mos def, common and other who promote a more positive outlook on this type of music.
rap, still a widely misunderstood form of music has both its negative and positive artists, as every other (for the most part) form of music.

it also deals with the realities of a life lived in the ghetto. i was and still am being raised in a more middle-upper middle class environment, therfore i don't know what it is to hear gunshots fired in the middle of the night, however i find it interesting to hear about and i understand the pain expressed through lyricist such as tupac (who is the greatest btw).

most ppl simply shrug this kind of music of because they:
1. refuse to accept life's harsh realities.
2. labels it as unimportant b/c of fear of actually, agreeing, understanding or God forbid, enjoying this kind of music.
3. just refuses to take the and understand where the musical poet/artsit is comeing from

r&b
this form of music consists of producers such as timbaland and the neptunes who take anything from a baby's cry to wind blowing and make it into music. often times these are the more complex rythms, more like a "start-and-stop-beat" (eg. aaliyah's "are you that somebody"). unfortunately many persons dismiss it and failing to actually take the time to listen.

then there are the songbirds, who use their voices as melodious instruments and bless the tracks which the producer have created. imo, the complex the song, the more you (i) listen to "get" each layer of the song. normally on each time these masterpieces are listened to the person often discovers something "hiddwn" that they hadn't heard b4 from the previous hearing. that alone is enough to make me a fan.


well ladies and gentleman, i have ALOT more to say about this particular topic but i am simply to tired/lazy to type anything else. any more comments or statements i will respond to at a later time, but for now that will have to do.

[thegurgi]

Guesshoo, i would say we a mostly criticizing the MAINSTREAM, and not so much underground. I've heard some great underground rap that had a real emotion to the flow and the beat of the words...

but it's MAINSTREAM POP, RAP, ROCK and etc that are ruining it for me and others. And because of this stuff that's being released it's becoming very hard for even me to ligitimize these kinds of "art forms" if you can even call it that.

But it's hard for me, sitting here listening to my neighboor playin "Fitty Cent" and it sounds just so.. i dunno, stereotypical.

[EeZeReal]

but it's MAINSTREAM POP, RAP, ROCK and etc that are ruining it for me and others.

Yay...And how I agree with that.. :D

1995 was the dawning of hip hop purgatory, artists became greedy, vain and mass monotony ensued. Mainstream subsequently sprouted its new form of commericialism(which kind of split off into its own market), in other words they made music that supposedely "talked" to the population of housing projects/ghetto's etc of America. Sooo many artists/record labels knew that they could sell from this and so therefore jumped on that band wagon. Being that America has alot more Urban area's than other countries, this is what made rap so popular in Amercia(for the worse) and is causing problems to the music industry(IMO).

It seems a person(i.e me LOL) can only get a select few to listen to Underground stuff. Apparently people would rather listen to something monosyllabic that they can bump in their "ride" or "indaclub", rather than something that portraits a deeper message and is actually interesting....strange people :rolleyes:

Doesn't stop me from bumping Aesop Rock in my brothers Saxo though..Hahaha... :laugh:

Sorry I just had to post a couple of cents seeing as we were talking about hip hop and how bad the mainstream is...LOL :gigi:

[ypsidan04]

I'm not sure if I like music by that definition, but I like to think so. But lyrics really can make a song. Take the Red Hot Chili Peppers for instance - they've got some great lyric. Sometimes, they don't really mean anything, but it's still cool. The rhyming is real interesting, the first two lines are rhymed in the middle and the end, and at one point there's four lines rhymed in a row instead of just two. This song is kind of unique in how it stops abrubtly after the last word in the lyrics - there's no guitar solo at the end, just silence.

Can't Stop
Can't stop addicted to the shin dig
Cop top he says I'm gonna win big
Choose not a life of imitation
Distant cousin to the reservation
Defunkt the pistol that you pay for
This punk the feeling that you stay for
In time I want to be your best friend
Eastside love is living on the westend
Knock out but boy you better come to
Don't die you know the truth is some do
Go write your message on the pavement
Burnin' so bright I wonder what the wave meant

White heat is screaming in the jungle
Complete the motion if you stumble
Go ask the dust for any answers
Come back strong with 50 belly dancers

[Chorus:]
The world I love
The tears I drop
To be part of
The wave can't stop
Ever wonder if it's all for you
The world I love
The trains I hop
To be part of
The wave can't stop
Come and tell me when it's time to

Sweetheart is bleeding in the snowcone
So smart she's leading me to ozone
Music the great communicator
Use two sticks to make it in the nature
I'll get you into penetration
The gender of a generation
The birth of every other nation
Worth your weight the gold of meditation
This chapter's going to be a close one
Smoke rings I know your going to blow one
All on a spaceship persevering
Use my hands for everything but steering
Can't stop the spirits when they need you
Mop tops are happy when they feed you
J. Butterfly is in the treetop
Birds that blow the meaning into bebop

[Repeat Chorus]

Wait a minute I'm passing out
Win or lose just like you
Far more shocking
Than anything i ever knew
How about you
10 more reasons
Why i need somebody new just like you
Far more shocking than anything I ever knew
Right on cue

(repeat first paragraph)

Kick start the golden generator
Sweet talk but don't intimidate her
Can't stop the gods from engineering
Feel no need for any interfering
Your image in the dictionary
This life is more than ordinary
Can I get 2 maybe even 3 of these
Come from space
To teach you of the pliedes
Can't stop the spirits when they need you
This life is more than just a read thru

[kishkash]

ypsidan04, i <heart> that song LOL

CP's rock when it comes to lyrics...and i only started recently listening to their lyrics :D Used to just dig the tune.

Scar tissue is also another really good one :p

kish "go ask a dustball for the answers" kash

[spyretto]

In one moment, I'm listening to Britney, and then, AFI, and right after, the Kronos Quartet (with compositions by Clint Mansell), a bit of Diana Krall, Nine Inch Nails, Jane's Addiction, Beyoncй, Our Lady Peace, Emma Shapplin and Infected Mushroom. I'll relax to some Chopin and flip to some Punjabi MC or Prodigy, get annoyed half to death by Chingy, but listen to him anyway and finish off with some Sarah McLachlan, or acoustics by Robert Michaels.

Emma Shapplin? Have you checked Era out ?

[cirrus]

I'd say I love music. Whether it's in English or Russian, or any language, it's the music, the atmosphere, the emotion that gets me. I think a good song is something you can understand or get the feel of no matter the language. My music collection is all different styles and languages, and I think the creative process behind songs - the lyrics fitting with the music to create something - is amazing. I make music using computer programs, but I'm also gonna learn the guitar.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They want things they can understand, and go out and buy (or download). I can understand that, but I think people don't really explore music or challenge their taste in it. They just want what's easy and popular. I can't be like that. I like more underground stuff cuz it's more interesting. It's different. Mainstream stuff is kinda boring because, in a way, you've heard it before. I respect people who make music they like, and like to be different or creative.



I think it's obvious that music is more than record companies and CD sales. It's more personal - a collection of someone's thoughts and emotions - whether through words or instruments - and that's what you really connect with.

[thegurgi]

just thinking....

i was remembering the first time i went to my sisters band concert [back when our high school band was REALLY good] and listening to them play i got chills, and i could repress the smile on my face. i was simply moved by the music....

i look over to see tons of people...just sitting there, looking like they were wondering what time it was going to be over... yawning... seeming as if they were deaf to how good the band was... :: sigh ::

cirrus you are right... people don't explore how wonderful the whole spectum of musical styles there are.

[Echoed]

spyretto, actually, I have checked out Era. ^_^

The often played The Mass on one of our two music TV stations here. ^_^ Thank Goodness for musical diversity in Montreal.

~Echo.

[taty994945]

*puts on sound of silence* o.O