View Full Version : Slavic Languages
coolasfcuk
01-05-2003, 22:20
So, here we go, here was can discuss all the Slavic languages. Their origination and similarities/differances. Compare words, phrases, slang, ect... should be fun. :D
So my language is Bulgarian- belongs to the south Slavic language group, if I am not mistaken, and it uses the Cyrillic alphabet. I will add later history of the origination of this alphabet (I have posted it in short somewhere else around here before), maybe it will be interesting for people to know. :gigi:
i speak croatian. i think it's also from the southern group (i'll have to check that). we use latin alphabet and i think that's the only MAJOR difference between all slavic languages. either latin or cyrilic, the languages are the pretty similar and we all can understand each other quite well ;)
Another one from the south slavic language group. I speak Slovene and we use the alphabet as well. Our language is very similar to serbo-croatian and also slovakian in some ways. I understand quite a bit of chech and also some russian, But surprisingly polish is the least understandable to me...considering people say it's very close to Russian. I also get a felling that serbo-croatian is pretty similar to russian (much more then slovenian is). Serbs for instance also use cyrillic plus they have a lot of words like the russians.
Bulgarian is complete tabula rassa to me. I never heard anything about it. Those comments that cool made have really surprised me - I never would have thought it's similar to croatian.
Although I remember you mentioning some time back that you also (like we do), use the word "Volk" for "Wolf".
Hey guys how do you say "Sun" in your languages? Slovenian(Sonce) is pretty similar to russian (solnce), . Fuck is also quite similar - "jebati" in slovenian and I think it's something like"yebat" in russian right?
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 02:48
sun in Bulgarian is 'slance' or 'slunce' (could be translited either way) . I will edit my message with the cyrillic spelling later, since I am at work now on a macintosh that doesnt have cyrilic. :D (and the 'a' in the first option or 'u' in the second, represent letter that is not present in the latin alphabet so it is not 100% translit- any bulgarian will know what it is translited like this though- but realy the sound is like... hmmm.. the only way to describe it will be to record myself at home and upload the sound file so you know what I am talking about- maybe you have it in your languages too)
fcuk in bulgarian translit is : ebati , in cyrillic spelled just like in Russian, but russians pronaunce their 'e' as something like 'ye', and they have a different letter (which we dont in Bulgarian) that is pronaunced as 'e'.
freddie I think this is a great thread- you wil be surprised how close Bulgarian is to Slovene, I am saying that just because of what I've heard from you so far, plus Bulgarian is realy really close to serbian.
About the polish- I understand some words, but not as much as serbian, macedonian, croatian, slovene (why is it called slovene and not slovenian by the way?), or russian. But czech is pretty NOT understandable for me, I think even more than polish. I do pick up on few of the words, but little. By the way- what exactly is serbo-croatian?
To keep the words coming- how about good day ? for us = dobar den in translit. If you wanna say informal hello we say zdrasti How about the other slavic languages?
Za sega tova e ! (translit for: this is it for now)
cool: If you have the possibility please record that sound in "slance". I'm really currious what it is.
I'm beginning to notice as well that Bulgarian is similar to Slovenian in many ways. Quite s surprise to me.
Why is it called slovene and not slovenian? Interesting question. Maybe to differentiate it from slovakian. They mix us up so many times anyway. I belive there would be a lot of confusion among non slavic folk: slovenian-slovakian
Serbo-croatian? In Slovenia we find serbian and croatian so similar that we consider them as one language. The main difference is that serbs use cyrillic characters while croatians use the alphabet. There are also differences between specific words (serbs have more turkish influence), but basicly it's the same language. The same goes for bosnian (they have turkish influence as well, but use the same language as croatians and serbs do). I as a layman can't even differentiate when a person is speaking croaian, serbain or bosnian. It all sounds the same to me, and I understand pretty much everything. Also when I was In primary school, we were still part of Yugoslavia and we had to learn other languages of our country then. We had a subject called: "Serbo-croatian", srbo-hrvascina in slovene or srbo-hrvatski. We learn it as one whole language. I learned cyrillic pretty well then, but I forgot it completely latter (that was 14 years after all), and it's only now that I'm starting to regret that:D
About chech language= I understand it much less then slovak language. This who languages are quite similar, but slovak is more familiar to me.
Look at this:
slovenian:
Good Morning= Dobro Jutro
Good Day= Dober Dan
Good Night = Lahko Noc (noc pronounced noch)
Good Bye = Nasvidenje
russian:
Good Morning - Do'broe u'tro
Good Day - Do'briy De'n
Good Night - Do'broy No'chi
Good Bye - Dosvida'nie , Poka'
slovenian:
hello = zdravo, pozdravljen/pozdravljena(feminine)
Web GoddesS
02-05-2003, 13:06
freddie,
:no:
Good Morning - Do'broe u'tro
Good Day - Do'briy De'n
Good Night - Do'broy No'chi
Good Bye - Dosvida'nie , Poka'
:done: :D
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 14:42
Ok, I'm back, too busy lately, so I didn't get a chance to record the 'sound', over the weekend I will, or type in Cyrillic, but I guess translit is the best way to do it anyway (since so few can read Cyrillic anyway :D ) Here we go:
Good Morning = Dobro Utro
Good Day = Dobar Den (a repeat)
Good Night = Leka Nosht
Good Bye = Dovizhdane or also could be trnslited as Dovijdane
pozdravlenja for us means = congratulating someone
freddie- I understand pretty much anything in serbian too, and if you say it is very close to Croatian, then no wonder why I understand that one also. ;) All those- serbian, croatian, macedonian, bulgarian- are lalmost like different dialectsto me.
You shouldn't be surprised our languages are close- after all when the Slavics came over our lands- they were one 'tribe' (I am lacking the correct english word) so I will give you our word, I bet you will get what I mean :D one 'narod' . They all spoke one language, with few differences between different groups among them- for example on the Balkans, when the Slavic people settled here- the main groups were Bulgarian Slavic, Croatian Slavic, and Serbo Slavic (those were all South Slavics)- they were constantly fighting with the Byzantine Empire (that is before any of them could be recognized as independant states.) I reread some history last night :gigi:- and even from those very early days when they settled- even though they had the same language- the Bulgarian Slavic group altered few characteristics- like couple sounds were pronaunced differently, and they also lost their 'padej' or 'padezhi'- grammar forms. That explains it, why today we don't have those anymore- thank god- because padezhi for me are nightmare. :D
Few more words:
How are you? = Kak si?
Good. And you? = Dobre. A ti?
First of all thanks to Web GoddesS for correcting my russian. I wrote it like I heard it, purely by intonation; I corrected the ones in my post as well- hope you don't mind.
coolasfcuk: I know exactly what you meant with one "narod". You said that there were three language groups on the balkan territory: Bulgarian Slavic, Croatian Slavic, and Serbo Slavic...hmmm I wonder where that puts us the slovenes. Because our language differs very much from croatian and serbian (those two are much more alike and slovene is pretty different from them...although still similar of course...). As far as I remember from the top of my head around the year 1000, we spoke "stara cerkvena slovanscina" (old catholic slavic). I can still understand that language vaguely and it was like slovene mixed with a bunch of other slavic languages.
I get the fact that southern slavic languages have quite a bit of similarities, what I don't understand is why are some of those similarities even in russian and other slavic languages that had nothing to do with the balkans. I know we were a part of one "narod" at some point, but that was probably thousads of years ago and from then on some slavic people moved to the west (like chechs, slovaks, polish...), some to the east (like russians, ukraininans...), and some to the south (like bulgarians, serbo-croats, slovenes) - although nations weren't defined then yet... So it's amazing how some similarities remained after such a long period of time.
Also: could you give me an example of what 'padezhi' means? I think I know, but I'm not really sure.
slovene:
How are you? = Kako si? - you can also say kak si? informal
Good. And you? = Dobro. Pa ti?
Too similar :D
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 16:33
freddie ha ha yeah, too similar, see... :D
Ok, I put those 3 'cause that's what the book said- I will read some more- I had forgotten lot of this (it is amazing how different I see things now, when I am not 15 year old in school having to learn the lesson :gigi: )
So the Slavics- they came from the East- settled all over whats today Russia, Ukraine, Belarus (the eastern slavics)... then they kept moving west- all the way to, as you said, Czech, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia, Bulgaria (south slavics) they even made it all the way down to Solun (greece)- the land between 'Carpati', 'dnesar', 'dnepar', the 'danube' (spelling on all of those- sorry, my history is better in Bulgarian). So the slavic moved over to the balkans around 6- 7 century A.C. Those, the slavics, were the new people in those lands, since there were already people living there. (for example where Bulgaria is now, the local people living there were 'Traki') The local people weren't that many though, and Slavic were a lot. So, in general, they were all one 'narod'- the east slavic or the south slavic- all started migrating from one place. So it is understandable languages are close- of course today there are differences, the contemproary languages are changed a lot from the original 'slavic' language spoken. :gigi:
Then there was the Byzantine Empire- the East one (with center Constantinople) and the West one (Rome). Slavic people were always fighting with the Emipire- the Empire got them baptised, so they became christians- I am not sure what year exactly, bulgarian slavic were the first ones baptised. Here is where some differences come- The eastern Slavics (Russians, Ukranias, Belarus, ect),Bulgarian Slavic were baptised by the East Byzantian empire, that is why we are Eastern Ortodox, while the rest, like Czech, Slovenian, Croatian, ect were baptised by the West Byzantian Empire, so catholics. :gigi:
I can say about my country, in 681 it was declared as a state, and the Byzantian Empire recognized it's independance. We got this because the Bulgarian Slavic made coalition with another 'narod', now called proto-bulgarians, who also migrated from East. Both together fought the Byzantians and established a state- so Bulgaria became Bulgaria in 681 A.C. Very early, before any other Slavic in the region had independance.
So in stead of writing more now, here are some links about the Cyrillic alphabet, and also the Glagolitic alphabet (Old Church Slavonic or also called Old Bulgarian) which is the precestor for the Cyrillic alphabet. Cyril and Methodius were two brothers from Solun, one parent was Bulgarian one Greek, they came up with the alphabet so that they can translate the bible and regular people from the villages can understand it, because before that the bible was only in greek or latin.
Glagolitic Alphabet (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/glagolitic.htm)
Cyrillic Alphabet (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cyrillic.htm)
freddie I will try to explain the 'padezhi' next time since it is more complicated for me. ;)
And also how the Cyrillic alphabet traveled all the way 'up there' to the Ukranians (Kievskaya Russ) and then to Russia.
coolasfcuk: Thanks for the interesting facts and the links. Infact I will use one of your great links to copy/paste something about slovenian language:
Origin
Publishing in Slovene began in 1551 with a catechism and an ABC. The first Slovene translation of the bible was published in 1584. In 1811, Slovene was adopted as the language of education, administration and the media and later became the official language of Slovenia.
Used to write:
Slovene (Slovenљиina), a Southern Slavonic language spoken by about 2 million people in the Slovenia. There are also communities of Slovene speakers in Austria, Hungary and Italy. Other Southern Slavonic languages include Serbian, Croatian, Macedonian and Bulgarian.
Sample text in Slovene
Vsi ljudje se rodijo svobodni in imajo enako dostojanstvo in enake pravice. Obdarjeni so z razumom in vestjo in bi morali ravnati drug z drugim kakor bratje.
Translation
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Here are some facts I still remember from the top of my head:
First mentioning of slovene language is from a seremon in writing called "Brizinski spomeniki" from around the year 1000. As cool mentioned slavic people were being baptised some by Eastern Byzantian Empire (ortodox), and some by Western Byzantian Empire (catolics) - like us. The catolic preachers, who were trying to turn slavics to christianity (we were pagans before) thought that it would be a good idea if the masses were held in the native tongue of the people. And so "Brizinski spomeniki" were born - first writing in slovene; although that wasn't real slovene yet, it was like I've said "old-catolic slavic;).
First publishing in slovenian was done thanks to reformation movement across europe at the time. The reformatory priest Primoz Trubar published Katekizem and the alphabet, to bring faith closer to the masses. Then Jurij Dalmatin translated the bible 1584.
It's funny how all the southern slavic languages were greatly infuenced by religion and was left of the roman empire.
QueenBee
02-05-2003, 17:58
Im Polish.. uh.. Is Polish a slavic language? LOL.. Im dumb. :(
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 17:58
So you wonder why some Slavic languages write in Latin and some write in Cyrillic- here come some interesting facts that might clear this up-
CYRIL AND METHODIUS, APOSTLES OF THE SLAVS
The creator of the Slavic alphabet and the first translator of liturgical books from Greek into Old-Bulgarian was Constantine, the Philosopher, better known by his name in religion, Cyril, adopted on his death bed. Constantine-Cyril was born in Salonika (now Thessaloniki in Greece). In 863 he and his brother Methodius were sent by the Byzantine emperor Michael III to convert the Western Slavs to Christianity and arrange that the divine service in Greater Moravia is performed in their native tongue.
This was done at the request of Rostislav, the prince of Greater Moravia, whose possessions comprised the lands of now the Czech Republic, Slovakia, part of Slovenia and part of Hungary, at that time inhabited by Slav population.
Undoubtedly, the two Slav apostles knew the Old-Bulgarian language to perfection - this was demonstrated both in the alphabet and in their translations from Greek. “You are Salonikians - addressed them Emperor Michael, - and all Salonikians speak pure Slavonic.”
It is known that their father Leo, a man of noble origin, was a dignitary in service of the Salonika Greek strategus. It is known also that in the Constantinople imperial court Constantine-Cyril (about 827-869) excelled in his learning and was often sent on important missions to the Saracens and the Hasars. His brother Methodius (815-885) was Father Superior of the monastery of Polychron in Vitinia, Asia Minor, where, when the Slavonic script was conceived by Cyril, the two brothers made the first translations of the major liturgical books from Greek into Slavonic.
Both the motives and the exact year in which Constantine-Cyril composed the alphabet (855 or 862-863) lie in obscurity. Some sources evidence that before their departure to Greater Moravia the two brothers taught the Bulgarians, inhabiting the area by the river of Bregalnitza in Macedonia, the Slavonic script, but this fact is not quite certain either. In any case, it is difficult to deny that their letters fully coincided with the sound system of the Old Bulgarian language, which - irrespective of all resemblances - already differed, in one way or another, from the rest of the Slavonic dialects.
So, Constantine-Cyril and Methodius, accompanied by their disciples, started their mission to Moravia towards 863. Welcomed with open arms by the local prince and his subjects, they were actively engaged in propagating divine worship in the Slavonic language. Naturally, this rivalry was not admired by the Western clergymen, predominantly of German origin. This first mission failed and the two brothers arrived back to Constantinople. From here they set out on a new journey, through Venezia, to Rome, carrying with them the holy relics of St. Clement I, Pope of Rome. There, Constantine-Cyril succeeded in persuading Pope Adrian II, that, as a church language, Slavonic is as adequate as Greek, Latin, or Jewish - a step more than revolutionary in the context of the then Europe, and an argument already discussed in Venezia.
Unfortunately, during their stay in the Holy City Constantine-Cyril fell ill and died (869). His tomb in the “San Clemente” basilica has been conserved till the present day and is a place of veneration for many Bulgarians, as well as for other people of Slav origin. Methodius, consecrated archbishop by the Pope, returned with some of his disciples to his flock in Greater Moravia. Outliving his brother by 16 years, he continued his work in increasingly difficult circumstances, produced by the unabating intrigues of the German clergy.
Immediately after his death in Moravia in 885, his followers were put to persecution, arrests, and tortures, and were finally driven away from the country. In Greater Moravia the Slavonic script and liturgy were gradually ousted by the Latin.
In 886 the two brothers’ disciples, who had survived, set forth to Bulgaria, the country that had been converted to Christianity two decades before. Here they were received with honours by Bulgaria’s prince and baptizer Boris I.
Having received his blessing and support in the capital city of Preslav, as well as in Bulgaria’s south-western parts, in Macedonia and Ohrid, the adherents of the two brothers from Salonika founded two great literary and spiritual schools. Thus, for example, St. Clement (about 838-916) who was sent to Macedonia, and who is known to have been Bulgarian in origin, for only 7 years educated ... 3500 pupils!
In this way, after the failed mission of Methodius and his disciples in Greater Moravia, the Slavonic script, as well as the Old Bulgarian language and liturgy developed freely and in full force in Bulgaria. It was from here that in the following centuries they spread to Serbia, Croatia, Kievan Russia, Lithuania, Wallachia, Moldavia, etc.
The creation of a new alphabet, designed for a particular language, would generally engage the efforts of many generations. If the other European alphabets were the result of a long evolution, Constantine-Cyril devised his script by one single act.
The apostle of Slavs was not only creator of their script. Together with his brother Methodius and his disciples he was the man who made the first translations into the new written language, elevating it to the sacral level of Jewish, Latin and Greek.
In this sense, the work of Constantine-Cyril, the Philosopher, left a lasting imprint on the Christian fate of Eastern Europe. It became incorporated in the struggles between the Eastern and the Western church for their diocese, and delineated the zones of religious confessions, which have marked the cultural boundaries of the continent for centuries, until the present day.
Source (http://www.omda.bg/engl/history/kiril&meth.html)
queenbee, yes, Polish is Slavic language. Do you still speak it? I rememeber you said you live somewhere else now. :D
QueenBee
02-05-2003, 18:33
coolasfcuk (indeed :p), yes I still speak Polish.. :) So Im officially a part of this conversation now! :p
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 19:19
queenbee, so jump in then.... I would love to see the words and phrases from 'up there in the thread', that we translated into Bulgarian, Russian, Slovene, Croatian- written in Polish by you. :heh:
coolasfcuk: That was very interesting. I was wondering about that one for a long time.:done:
I've known it's got something to do with Cyril but I wasn't familiar with the details.
OK, the language that I mention "Old-church-slavic" from which slovene language originates is aparantly named
Old Church Slavonic in english (I just directly translated it).
Here's something I've found about it from cool's link:
Old Church Slavonic
Alphabet
Origin
The Old Church Slavonic alphabet was invented sometime during the 10th century AD, possibly by St. Kliment of Ohrid, a missionary in Bulgaria. It later evolved into the Cyrillic alphabet. The earliest known inscriptions in the Old Church Slavonic alphabet date from the 10th century and can be found in Romania and Bulgaria.
Used to write:
Old Church Slavonic, a mixture of Old Bulgarian and Old Russian which was used as the litergical language of the Russian Orthodox church between the 9th and 12th centuries. A more modern form of the language, known as Church Slavonic, appeared during the 14th century and is still used as the litergical language of the Russian Orthodox church
And to empahsise further that serbian, croatian and bosnian are indeed one language here is somehing else from cool's link:
Origin
Speakers of Slavonic languages settled in the Balkan region during the 6th and 7th centuries AD. The division between Croats and Serbs originates in the 9th century when both groups converted to Christianity. The Serbs aligned themselves with Constantiople and the Eastern Orthodox church and adopted the Cyrillic alphabet, while the Croats favoured the Roman Catholic church and the Glagolitic alphabet.
After the Turkish conquest of Serbia and Bosnia, Islam spread to parts of Bosnia and the Arabic script was sometimes used.
The Latin alphabet was gradually adopted by the Croats, though they continued to use Glagolitic for religious writings until the 19th century.
Used to write:
Serbian (Srpski), Croatian (Hrvatski) and Bosnian (Bosanski), closely related South Slavonic languages formerly known collectively as Serbo-Croat.
ps: Queenbee indeed join in, the more the marrier :D
And btw, we are only representatives of south-slavic languages here + queenbee. Where are the Checks, Slovakians, Russians, Ukranians, Belorussians...?!;)
freddie, I have to disagree with you on Bosnian language. While similar to both croatian and serbian there are more diferences between bosnian and serbian than between serbian and croatian. IMO this is because Serbs (and Croats to some extent) tried to purge their language of words with turkish origin Bosnians "invited" them in.
cool, which alphabet do you use? Same as Serbs or Russians? I know they are similar but not same. I can read Serbian alphabet but only some Russian.
QueenBee
02-05-2003, 20:54
We are family! *does a little dance* :D
Some Polish:
Good Morning - Dzien Dobry
Good Day - Dzien Dobry (also.. we dont have any separate phrases. "Dzien" means "Day")
Good (Late) Evening - Dobry wieczor
Good Night - Dobra Noc
Good Bye - Dovidzienia
Sorry to all my Polish pholks if anything is spelled wrong :p
Good Morning - Dobro jutro
Good Day - Dobar dan
Good Evening - Dobra vecer
Good Night - Laku noc
Good Bye - Dovidjenja
pretty similar ;)
and luxxi you're quite right about purging turkish origins from our language. you'd laugh to some new words that are "invented" in the past 10 years just to differ from serbian or bosnian :D
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 21:25
luxxi we use the Bulgarian alphabet (which is kind of the 'fahter/mother' of all the other Cyrillic alphabets- if you read all the above it will make sense :heh: :gigi: ) But here are the links to the 3 alphabets- Bulgarian, Russian, and Serbian.
See, Serbian is a little bit different than Russian and Bulgarian ones (has few latin influences in it), Russian and Bulgarian alphabets are indentical but the Russian one has 3 additional characters that we don't have in Bulgarian- ё,э;ы. Serbian is also missing the last few letters of the Bulgarian and Russian alphabets.
Bulgarian (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/bulgarian.htm)
Russian (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cyrillic.htm#russian)
Serbian (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/serbo-croat.htm)
queenbee great ! See, very close, but still a little more different than the ones we have seen before. Now we need some czech and slovakian. :D
Originally posted by luxxi
freddie, I have to disagree with you on Bosnian language. While similar to both croatian and serbian there are more diferences between bosnian and serbian than between serbian and croatian. IMO this is because Serbs (and Croats to some extent) tried to purge their language of words with turkish origin Bosnians "invited" them in.
cool, which alphabet do you use? Same as Serbs or Russians? I know they are similar but not same. I can read Serbian alphabet but only some Russian.
luxxi you could be right, but when I hear all those languages they all sound the same to me. I do now 'though that Bosnian language has a lot of turkish expressions incorporated into it's structure... but no turkish grammar rules. And if you look at the examples from cool's link you'll see that as an example of croatian sebian and bosnian language is completlely the same.
Good (Late) Evening - Dobry wieczor
I forgot to add that in:
slovenian
Good Evening - Dobrer Vecer (again c in vecer pronounces as -ch - vecher)
there really are no major differences between croatian, serbian and bosnian. everyone can speak to everyone without any special knowledge of the "other" language. you could say they're all dialects of the same language ;)
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 21:49
oh then I forgot this one also...
Good Evening = Dobar Vecher I don't thik any of us will have problem understanding each other when we greet ourselves. :heh:
so next I thought it would be great to compare our languages with a text (so everyone will translate the same text). And since we are on a t.A.T.u. forum, what better way than translating their songs. How about 'Ya soshla s Uma'? (maybe stick with the russian one since it is the slavic version, and it is been trnaslated over here http://forum.tatysite.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2625 I will put mine up tonight. :D
1st of all...some directions:
(s=sh) (c=ch) (d=dj) (s=sh) (z=zh)
Izgubila sam razum
Izgubila sam razum.
...
Meni treba ona.
...
Izgubila sam razum.
Ja vise ne postojim,
Potpuno sam ozbiljna,
Moja situacija treba pomoc.
Situacija SOS.
Ja sebe ne razumijem,
Ili otkuda si ti dosla.
Zasto? Zasto
Me privlacIs k sebi?
Svjetla se gase,
I ja letim dalje.
Bez tebe, ja ne postojim.
Ne zelim nista.
Ovaj spori otrov,
Izluduje me.
A oni govore "Ti si kriva",
A oni govore "Ti si kriva".
...
Bez tebe, ja nisam ja.
Bez tebe, ja ne postojim.
A oni govore,
Govore ovo je glupo.
Otrovne zrake,
Zrake od zlata.
A oni govore
Da se trebam izlijeciti.
Pokusavam
Sve ovo zaboraviti,
Brojim polove
I izgubljene ptice.
Ali bez tebe, ja ne postojim.
Pusti, pusti.
Stjerana sam uz zid,
Mama, tata, oprostite mi...
...
Jedna, dvije minute poslije pet...
Mama, tata, oprostite mi,
Izgubila sam razum.
...
hope you get it :done:
Originally posted by crni
and luxxi you're quite right about purging turkish origins from our language. you'd laugh to some new words that are "invented" in the past 10 years just to differ from serbian or bosnian :D [/B]
Like udaljinoumnozivac (in distance copier-fax), brzoglas (fast voice-phone), vrtolet (helicopter). Those are real ones but I remember some of the jokes like: vuneni travojed (wooled grass eater-sheep), cuvar vunenog travojeda (guardian of the wolled grass eater-shepherd dog).
yeah, that's right.
televizija-dalekovidnica, telefon-brzoglas...now we even have the 4th reincarnation of helicopter. helikopter-zrakomlat-vrtolet-uvrtnjak. hilarious :D
and i also knew some of those jokes too, but i forgot them :(
are you serious about zrakomlat? I thought that was a joke.
it's the real thing :D
actually, it's very common on tv, or should i say, dalekovidnici...
coolasfcuk
02-05-2003, 23:56
Ok, here comes my translit of "Ya Soshla S Uma' in Bulgarian, but you guys have to understand that there is not exact way of translitting from Cyrillic to Latin, so other Bulgarian people might do it a little differentlly here and there, but in general it would be the same. :heh:
For example, our letter ж is usually translitted as zh, or the letter ц could be translited either as ts or c depending on the situation or the person, I prefer the first one ts.
Az sam si izgubila uma
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Az ne sam sas vsichkia si.
Absolyutno seriozno.
Situatsiya ‘help’ (pomosht)
Situatsiya ‘SOS’
Az sebe si ne razbiram,
Ti otkade se vze.
Zashto, zashto?
Me privlichash kam sebe si.
Gasnat svetlinite,
Az na niakade otlitam.
Bez teb men me niama.
Nishto ne iskam.
Tova e bavna otrova.
Tova mi izpiva uma.
A te govoryat – vinovna si sama.
A te govoryat – vinovna si sama.
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Bez teb az ne sam az.
Bez teb men me niama.
A te govoryat,
Govoryat tova e koshmar.
Tova e slanchev yad,
Zlatni luchi.
A te govoryat,
Triabva barzo da se lekuvash.
Az iskah da zabravya.
Dokrai I do dolu.
Az broih stalbove,
I rastreljani ptici.
Bez teb men me niama.
Pusni me, pusni me,
Do ugala na stenata,
Mamo, tate prosetei…
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Az sam siizagubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia.
Edna, dve sled pet..
Mamo, tate prostete
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Edna, dve sled pet..
Mamo, tate prosetei
Az sam si izgubila uma.
Az sam si izgubila uma, az sam si zagubila uma.
Nuzhna mi e tia, nuzhna mi e tia.
Also hope you got some of it. :done:
I wanna say that I got most of crni's post. For example, in bulgarian um = razum
nuzhna = trjabva so close to treba
se vze = doshla
:D
edit: for us also those 2 words helicopter and vartolet ha ha ha too funny.
i got, let's say, half of it ;)
pretty difficult to me...
s-sh c-ch z-zh
Zmesalo se mi je
zmesalo se mi je
...
potrebna mi je ona
...
zmesalo se mi je
jaz vec ne obstajam
povsem resna sem
situacija HELP (pomoc)
situacija SOS
ne razumem sama sebe
odkod si se ti vzela?
zakaj? zakaj?
me privlacis k sebi?
luci se ugasajo
jaz nekje letim
brez tebe ni mene
nicesar si ne zelim
od tega pocasnega strupa
se mi bo zmesalo
a oni govorijo: sama si kriva
a oni govorijo: sama si kriva
...
brez tebe, jaz nisem jaz,
brez tebe, jaz ne obstajam,
a oni govorijo,
govorijo, to je neumno
ta soncni strup
me spravlja ob pamet
a oni govorijo,
da se moram pozdraviti
hotela sem pozabiti
do konca in naprej,
stela sem kolicke
in izgubljene ptice.
brez tebe ni mene
pusti me, pusti me,
stisnili so me k zidu
mama, ata oprostita mi
...
ena, dve minute cez pet
mama, ata oprostita
meni se je zmesalo
Damn this is hard work :D
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 00:16
Well, at the end of my last post I didn't do all the words ..but here is one more example, why I said I understood most of it, I'd say about 75 to 80%- Ne zelim nista in your translation and Nishto ne iskam. in mine. OK, in bulgarian also iskam = zhelaja which is close to zelim (but depends how you pronaunce that z ) Do you pronaunce it like 'z' as in zebra in English? or different?
I think a lot of it also comes from the translitting- if you are not a person that knows Cyrillic it is harder to deal with translit. :heh:
edit: I just saw freddie's post (haven't read it yet) but I saw he said that z = zh so same for Croatian?? Than zelim is indeed close to zhalija like I thought. :gigi:
Originally posted by coolasfcuk
Well, at the end of my last post I didn't do all the words ..but here is one more example, why I said I understood most of it, I'd say about 75 to 80%- Ne zelim nista in your translation and Nishto ne iskam. in mine. OK, in bulgarian also iskam = zhelaja which is close to zelim (but depends how you pronaunce that z ) Do you pronaunce it like 'z' as in zebra in English? or different?
I think a lot of it also comes from the translitting- if you are not a person that knows Cyrillic it is harder to deal with translit. :heh:
That z is different. It has a mark on top and it's pronounced like zh. Zelim=Zhelim
crni: Zrakomlat =that's hilarious :D :D :D
I would like to say that you could write:
Jaz Sem Sla Z Uma - in slovenian but there is no expresion like this (all the words exist in slovenian, but we don't say it like that, so I had to look for a more apropriate expression).
I understood about half (or maybe a little more) of coolasfcuk's translit and about 100% of crni's translation.
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 00:29
see, it all depends how it is written I guess, here is one more example from freddie's out of which I understand as much as from crni's by the way, I am not even sure if not more :gigi: )
'brez tebe ni mene
pusti me, pusti me,
stisnili so me k zidu
mama, ata oprostita mi'
this could be written in Bulgarian like such:
'bez teb (or 'tebe' in more informal way) niama men (also 'mene' for informal)
pusni me, pusni me,
stisnali (or pritisnali) sa me do zida (zid is really used for masonry wall usually)
mamo, tate prostete mi'
see, very close.
:D
I also think I have a little advantage of also knowing Russian :heh: and also being able to read the Cyrillic and latin alphabets (because like I said before the translits could be hard for someone that can't read the Russian or Bulgarian versions of the Cyrillic alphabet)- probably that's why I understood about 75% of what you guys wrote.
But still, it is all so close :D
Do ugala na stenata,
It really is a matter of interpretation. I could translate it like this as well (zid just came to mind first).
"...Do vogala na steni..."
It'd be a lot more similar if we weren't using our interpretations ;)
sorry, my mistake about the z.
i marked it but i forgot to explain it. indeed, that seems to be very similar to bulgarian zelaja ;)
one more question: are all text in bulgaria written in cyrilic or there are some "latin" words? my point is...when you translit ж, is it like ZH or Z with little "knob" above it? like russian J. it's basicly I with that "knob".
anyway, here in croatia we don't write CH, ZH... but C, Z... with that "knobs" ;)
anyway, here in croatia we don't write CH, ZH... but C, Z... with that "knobs"
Ditto.
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 00:51
crni, all bulgarian is written in Cyrillic- even words that have been borrowed from other languages get 'adjusted' and are written in Cyrillic. So we dong have the 'z' with the mark on top.
And we have the same й as in Russian, it is called 'i kratko' or 'short i'. In translit it is usually written as 'j' or 'i' or sometimes 'y', like I said- translit is very open to interpretation depending on the combination of letters in the word, and depending on the person translitting.
I am not sure if you saw it earlier in the thread, but if you look on the 1st page you can see links to the Bulgarian and the Russian alphabets, and how identical they are.
freddie, exactly- I agree. I think Slovene might be closer to bulgarian than we thought eh? :D Even now I am getting surprised, he he. Right now seems a little closer or at least as closer as Croatian or serbian
freddie, exactly- I agree. I think Slovene might be closer to bulgarian than we thought eh? Even now I am getting surprised, he he. Right now seems a little closer or at least as closer as Croatian or serbian
It does. Complete surprise. Couple of months back I didn't even know you guys were slavic :D
sorry, i guess i've missed that link...
and by looking at the 2nd row (i guess that's transliteration) i see that you DO have little knobs as we do. sweet :D
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 04:24
freddie, you didnt?!? :eek: what did you think we were? LoL
crni, it is?!?! :eek: I wasnt sure what that second row was. But we never use those little tick marks- they are complete surprise to me :confused: (I knew you guys have them- but I never knew that bulgarian alphabet could be associated with them) But I guess they make more sense to you since you have them in your alphabet. :D
See we would translit ж as zh but not like.. see, I can't even type it in my comp the z with the tick mark. :gigi: but it goes to show ya, that pronanciation is probably same, or at least very close, but it is just written differently. :D
Russians also translit ж as zh. Here is an example:
you know the song prostye dvizheniya
so here it is in cyrillic in Russian: простые движения , and
here it is in Cyrillic in Bulgarian: прости движения. Now here is translit for both languages for the second word- motions, since they are exactly identical: dvizheniya.
Look it up in the translit lyrics on this site.
Originally posted by coolasfcuk
freddie, you didnt?!? :eek: what did you think we were? LoL
crni, it is?!?! :eek: I wasnt sure what that second row was. But we never use those little tick marks- they are complete surprise to me :confused: (I knew you guys have them- but I never knew that bulgarian alphabet could be associated with them) But I guess they make more sense to you since you have them in your alphabet. :D
See we would translit ж as zh but not like.. see, I can't even type it in my comp the z with the tick mark. :gigi: but it goes to show ya, that pronanciation is probably same, or at least very close, but it is just written differently. :D
Russians also translit ж as zh. Here is an example:
you know the song prostye dvizheniya
so here it is in cyrillic in Russian: простые движения , and
here it is in Cyrillic in Bulgarian: прости движения. Now here is translit for both languages for the second word- motions, since they are exactly identical: dvizheniya.
Look it up in the translit lyrics on this site.
coolasfcuk: I don't know. I never really thought about it. I guess I thought you were tatars or something :D
i figured that southern slavic folk live within the border of Yugoslavia, seeing as most of the nation outside it aren't slavic (albanias, romanians, hungaians...). 'thought I knew you write cyrillic so I always had a funny felling that maybe you were slavic after all. Come to think of it it was a classic: "are they or aren't they" case.
Hey guys we should make translations of Prostie Dvizeniya next. I think it would be a lot easier then YSSU. I can even write it is slovene so that it almost keeps it's original rhytm. :D
Preprosti Gibi *
jaz nadaljujem preproste gibe,
ti nadaljujes moje ponovitve
jaz sem ti in ti si jaz
jaz ponovim, jaz ponovim
molci ce hoces
pocakaj do konca
ce hocs kljuce, dva obrata
Hoces svoje, Hoces nekogarsnje,
Hoces kot jaz in jaz nadaljujem
preprosti gibi
jaz nadaljujem,
preprosti gibi,
jaz nadaljujem
...
Mi nadaljujemo preproste gibe,
unicujemo namakanje (???)
Nekje najdes in nekje izgubis
Jaz ponovim, ti ponovis
To je ljubezen, skacejo vzmetnice,
jutri bodo vsi manjsi kot snezinke
morama biti pravocasni, ne zavracat,
mora nama uspeti, nadaljevati ziveti
preprosti gibi
jaz nadaljujem,
preprosti gibi,
jaz nadaljujem
...
preprosti gibi
preprosti gibi
preprosti gibi
preprosti gibi
jaz nadaljujem
*could also be "preprosta gibanja", "preprosti premiki", but this way wouldn't keep it's rhytm.
QueenBee
03-05-2003, 18:26
Okay SPELL WARNING.. Lol I have no idea how to spell things.. I'll try to spell it the way it sounds if I don't know how to. hope nobody from Poland reads this :p
Ja kontinuje prostye ruchy
Ty kontinujesz(sh) moje kontinuacje
Ja jestem ty, a ty jestes ja
I ja poftarzam, ja poftarzam
Jak chcesz, badz cicho
Poczekaj do konca
Jak chcesz klucze, dwie rundy (not sure about this 1)
Jak chcesz twoje
Jak chcesz kogos
Jak chcesz jak ja
Ja kontinuje
Prostye ruchy
Ja kontinuje
Prostye ruchy
Ja kontinuje
Blahblah
My kontinujemy prostye ruchy
Psuc ??? (This one's really hard!)
Gdzies znajdziesz
Gdzies zgubisz
Ja kontinuje
Ty kontinujesz
To jest milosc
Skacza ????? (whee.)
Jutro wszyscy beda miejsi nisz snieszka
Musimy byc na czas
Ne zawracac
Musimy kontinulowac zycje (this one's pretty hard for me to make out in polish since we dont usually say the way its said in english)
Prostye ruchy
Ja kontinuje
Prostye ruchy
Ja kontinuje
Bla bla
PHEW! :D Oh whoops, I forgot the rhytm.. :lalala:
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 19:00
Ok, here comes mine: I will post 3 versions, first one will be the Russian one(for comparisson) , then I will post the Bulgarian one in Cyrillic and then the translit bulgarian.
Russian Cyrillic:
Простые движения
Я продолжаю простые движенья
Ты продолжаешь мои продолженья
Я это ты, а ты это я
И я повторяю, я повторяю
Хочешь молчи, жди что пройдет так
Хочешь включи два оборота
Хочешь твоя, хочешь чужая
Хочешь как я и я продолжаю
Простые движенья
Я продолжаю
Простые движенья
Я продолжаю
Простые движенья
Я продолжаю
Простые движенья
Я продолжаю
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Мы продолжаем простые движенья
Мы продолжаем для продолженья
Не задавай эти вопросы
Просто давай двигайся просто
Это любовь - скачут пружинки
Завтра любой меньше снежинки
Надо успеть не возражая
Надо уметь жить продолжая
Простые движенья
Жить продолжая
Простые движенья
Жить продолжая
Простые движенья
Жить продолжая
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Простые движенья
Я продолжаю
Простые движенья...
Ok now,Bulgarian Cyrillic:
Прости движения
Аз продължавам прости движения
Ти продажаваш моите продалжения.
Аз сам ти, а ти си аз
И аз повтарям, аз повтарям
Искаш - мълчи, виж какво става.
Искаш – включи два оборота
Искаш твоя, искаш чужда
Искаш като мен и аз продалжавам.
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения
Прости движения
Прости движения
Прости движения
Прости движения
Ние продължаваме прости движения
Ние продължажаме за продължения
Не задавай тези въпроси
Просто давай, мърдай се просто
Това е любов – скачат пружинки
След това малки снежинки.
Трябва да успея не възражавам
Трябва да умея живота продължавам.
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения
Прости движения
Прости движения
Прости движения
Прости движения
Аз продължавам
Прости движения.....
And finally, Bulgarian Translit
Prosti dvizheniya
Az prodalzhavam prosti dvizheniya
Ti prodalzhavash moite prodalzheniya
Az sam ti, a ti si az
I az povratjam, az povtarjam
Iskash- malchi, vizh kakvo stava.
Iskash – vkljuchi dva oborota
Iskash tvoja, iskash chuzhda
Iskash kato men I az prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
Az prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
Az prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
Az prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
Az prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
Prosti dvizheniya
Prosti dvizheniya
Prosti dvizheniya
Nie prodalzhavame prosti dvizheniya
Nie prodalzhavame za prodalzheniya
Ne zadavaj tezi vaprosi
Prosto davaj, mardaj se prosto
Tova e ljubov- skachat pruzhinki
Sled tova malki snezhinki
Trjabva da uspeja ne vazrazhavam
Trjabva da umeja zhivota prodalzhavam.
Prosti dvizheniya
zhivota prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
zhivota prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
zhivota prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
zhivota prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya
Prosti dvizheniya
Prosti dvizheniya
Prosti dvizheniya
Az prodalzhavam
Prosti dvizheniya....
And I read both yours queenbee and freddie- LoL- this one was harder to understand. From freddie's I understood maybe 35% if that much, and same or tiny less from queenbee ! :confused: It is a shame, because this one is the closest taty lyric from Russian to Bulgarian, it is so close I bet you Russians could understand lots of the Bulgarian parts. :D
coolasfcuk: Well i translated it from english translation and not from original russian. Maybe our versions would be a bit more similar if I looked at the russian version as well. Matter of interpretation as well. Seeing as I understand pretty much of both your version and also the russian version, while I don't get much more than 30% out of the Polish version. But I do agree that the Bulgarian and Russian versions are amazingly similar. :eek:
I get a felling that croatian version will be similar to the original;)
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 19:49
freddie, I expect the Croatian to be similar to the Bulgarian too. Lets wait to read it.
I do agree about the interpretations- because I understand they original Russian it is easier, since you are using the already interpreted once (by someone else) Russian version into English and then interpreting it again from English to Slovene- so it gets quite distorted.
Tonight I will recod myself explaining the ъ sound. Which was in the word слънце. :D
Tonight I will recod myself explaining the ъ sound. Which was in the word слънце.
Looking forward to that:done:
And you still have to explain the padhezh thing.;)
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 20:58
[Looking forward to that:done:
Well, here it comes- hope it makes sense- let me know. also let me know if you guys have the same sound in your language. :D Explanation (http://www.angelfire.com/un/coolasfcuk/SlanceSound.mp3)
About the parezh- he he- one thing at I time. I am actually gonna talk to someone first, because I wanna explain it correct, and for me it is hard to explain it in English. (and since we dont have parezhi the whole thing is a little bit foggy to me as well ;) - explanation on this comming soon)
Thanks for that explanation cool, I quite enjoyed it:done:
Yeah, of course we have that sound in Slovene. We call it "polglasnik" and it is a vowel. We usually write it (when you write pronounced words like a vowel that is turned upside-down, otherwise there is no character for it - we drop that out) When we speak certain letters - we call them "zvocniki" (m,n,r,l,j,v) they can't be spoken by themselves, they are acompaied by this "polglasnik" sound. If you have a combination of this leters in a word (-lj, -nr...)=then you have this sound in the middle, but without actualy writing it. I don't know if that is a similar usage as in Bulgarian, but the sound is definitely the same.
For instace if I say: Film in slovene there is that sound between l and m but we don't write it as a letter. Another example is zanr (z has a mark on top so it's pronounced zhanr), which means ganre in english. Zanr= between n and r there is also that "polglasnik" sound. So I guess Bulgarians would put an e in the middle and call it "zaner". But we left this sound completely out of the writen word. If you wanted to put it in writing then the "e" would have to be put upside down, but nobody does that, except the dictionaries.
btw: we have "uglel"(corner) as wel except that we call it "vogal".
ps: Cool your style of talking in english reminds me very much of Lena's, except with much better english.:D
QueenBee
03-05-2003, 21:48
Me the same as freddie, I translated it from the english lyrics on tatu.us :) And coolasfcuk yours looks almost the same as the russian one!
And I didnt put the pronounciation either.. whoops..lol
To add to freddie's explanation about polglasnik (semivowel). It is used in syllables that have no vowels in them. It's most often asociated with r.
e.g.
Prt (table cloth) has no vowel so we use this "polglasnik" it it.
or
Prstan (ring-the one you put on your finger) is divided into pr-stan. First syllable has no vowel so againt "polglasnik"
i just listened to your EXPLANATION and yes, we also have that "thing".
an example would be: rt (some rock that point out of sea ;)). we pronounce it just the same way as you explained it... of course, that "thing" comes at the beginning (*rt) and we never write it but we just know when we need to "read" it.
there are also plenty other examples but i can't think of any... :D
coolasfcuk
03-05-2003, 22:31
For instace if I say: Film in slovene there is that sound between l and m but we don't write it as a letter. Another example is zanr (z has a mark on top so it's pronounced zhanr), which means ganre in english. Zanr= between n and r there is also that "polglasnik" sound. So I guess Bulgarians would put an e in the middle and call it "zaner".
Film for us is Филм or translited Film the sound is still there- but that's a different case. Let me see how to explain it... hmmm...the sound is there in between l and m just because there is no way to pronaunce it without it, but it is not like a letter. The letter ъ is a vowel so the word corner will look like that in Bulgarian ъгъл or translited ugul, agal or the best way to do it will be ugal. See anyone of the three would work for a bulgarian, but if you are not bulgarian it gets confusing- because you would read the 3 different options differently, and a bulgarian will read them all the same. :heh:
Then the word ganre- in bulgarian it is жанр, translited as zhanr. So the same way- the sound is just there, because there is no other way to pronaunce it other wise- but it is not the letter ъ.
Let me give you another example of the letter ъ- гълъб or translited gulab meaning dove or pigeon. See, in this case ъ is needed not just to be able to pronaunce the word but it is the only vowel in the word. Bulgarian is very phonetic language so you can read each letter separatelly and you will be saying the word correctly- maybe I can record myself again to show how that works. (but later tonight or tomorrow. :gigi: )
ps: Cool your style of talking in english reminds me very much of Lena's, except with much better english.
:gigi: I was feeling a little weird recording myself, but I got over it. See, now you understand why I say people, here in USA, right away think I am Russian, LoL. :heh: You are the second person, after my mom, that tells me I speak and laugh like Lena. Thanks. :o
I see now what you mean cool. That letter "ъ" represents a new vowel to you that is used in different words. We don't have that as such, but we do have that sound at least B]crni, luxxi[/B], and me were all thinking of the same thing, but I guess you Bulgarians have a special assignment for "polglasnik" - "semi-vowel" and a special leter ъ)
btw pidgeon in slovenian is golob
Jednostavni pokreti
Ja nastavljam ove jednostavne pokrete,
Ti nastavljash moje nastavljanje.
Ja sam ti, i ti si ja.
I ja ponavljam, ja ponavljam.
Ako hochesh, budi tiha, chekaj dok ne prodje.
Ako hochesh, uzmi kljucheve, okreni ih dva puta.
Ako hochesh, budi svoja, ako hochesh, budi neznanac.
Ako hochesh, budi kao ja, i ja nastavljam.
Jednostavni pokreti, ja nastavljam!
...
Jednostavni pokreti
...
Mi nastavljamo jednostavne pokrete,
Unishtavajuchi vlazhenje (i don't get it :ithink: )
Negdje nadjesh, negdje izgubish.
Ja ponavljam, ti ponavljash.
Ovo je ljubav, opruge skachu ( :ithink: )
Sutra, bilo tko mozhe biti manji od snjezhne pahuljice.
Mi moramo biti na vrijeme, bez zadrzhavanja.
Trebamo znati kako zhivjeti nastavljajuchi.
Jednostavni pokreti,
Zhive nastavljajuchi.
...
Jednostavni pokreti,
Ja nastavljam.
...
ok, that was croatian...
but how did i understand slovenian, polish and bulgarian? i must admit, very badly :(
i didn't get more than 30% in any of them. and that's bad.
*walks away ashamed*
Originally posted by freddie
cool: Serbo-croatian? In Slovenia we find serbian and croatian so similar that we consider them as one language. The main difference is that serbs use cyrillic characters while croatians use the alphabet. There are also differences between specific words (serbs have more turkish influence), but basicly it's the same language. [/B]
I have to disagree,there is more than a difference in characters,many words are completely different and we use different grammatical structures.Yes we can understand each other very well but I can also undesrdtand Slovene, that doesn't make it the same language.
Originally posted by zebu
I have to disagree,there is more than a difference in characters,many words are completely different and we use different grammatical structures.Yes we can understand each other very well but I can also undesrdtand Slovene, that doesn't make it the same language.
Words: yes. But grammatical structures? Excuse me? Like what?:rolleyes:
Plus: you surely must admit that bosinan and croatian are much more similar then then croatian and slovene.
To emhasize my point I will post a sample text from cool's link. First the slovene, then croatian, bosnian langauge and finally original text in english:
Sample text in Slovene
Vsi ljudje se rodijo svobodni in imajo enako dostojanstvo in enake pravice. Obdarjeni so z razumom in vestjo in bi morali ravnati drug z drugim kakor bratje.
Croatian sample text
Sva ljudska biжa raрaju se slobodna i jednaka u dostojanstvu i pravima. Ona su obdarena razumom i svijeљжu i trebaju jedna prema drugima postupati u duhu bratstva.
Bosnian sample text
Sva ljudska biжa raрaju se slobodna i jednaka u dostojanstvu i pravima. Ona su obdarena razumom i svijeљжu i treba da jedno prema drugome postupaju u duhu bratstva.
Translation
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
You will notice that the sample text's in croatian and bosinan are EXACTLY the same, while Slovenian is different. How can two different languages (like you claim bosnian and croatian are) have same sample texts? That's imposible. And Serbian text is indentical as well, with the exception that it's writen in Cyrillic.
Originally posted by freddie
Words: yes. But grammatical structures? Excuse me? Like what?:rolleyes:
Plus: you surely must admit that bosinan and croatian are much more similar then then croatian and slovene.
To emhasize my point I will post a sample text from cool's link. First the slovene, then croatian, bosnian langauge and finally original text in english:
Sample text in Slovene
Vsi ljudje se rodijo svobodni in imajo enako dostojanstvo in enake pravice. Obdarjeni so z razumom in vestjo in bi morali ravnati drug z drugim kakor bratje.
Croatian sample text
Sva ljudska biжa raрaju se slobodna i jednaka u dostojanstvu i pravima. Ona su obdarena razumom i svijeљжu i trebaju jedna prema drugima postupati u duhu bratstva.
Bosnian sample text
Sva ljudska biжa raрaju se slobodna i jednaka u dostojanstvu i pravima. Ona su obdarena razumom i svijeљжu i treba da jedno prema drugome postupaju u duhu bratstva.
Translation
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
You will notice that the sample text's in croatian and bosinan are EXACTLY the same, while Slovenian is different. How can two different languages (like you claim bosnian and croatian are) have same sample texts? That's imposible. And Serbian text is indentical as well, with the exception that it's writen in Cyrillic.
Ahem, no ofense but do you read your own posts? I trebaju jedna prema drugima postupati u duhu bratstva vs. i treba da jedno prema drugome postupaju u duhu bratstva.
Come on luxxi don't nitpick. This is an unimportaint difference. It could go eather way. Question of interpretation really. I admit it did go past me that small difference, but it's so similar that it's practicaly the same.
After all we are talking here about Bulgarian, Russian, Slovene, Croatioan... as being similar languages. So in that respect I belive you can consider Bosnian, Croatian and Serbain as not just similar, but pretty close to the same.
Yes, it's a small difference. But you did say exactly the same and put "exactly" in caps so...
But I agree that Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian are very similar.
True. My bad. That's why I said this in my next post:
I admit it did go past me that small difference, but it's so similar that it's practicaly the same.
coolasfcuk
05-05-2003, 14:57
hey people, let me translit the same text from those links in Bulgarian also, since I just realized you can't really read it and it is not translited there, onoy translated.
Vsichki hora se razhdat svobodni i ravni po dostojnstva i prava. Te sa nadareni s razum i savest (here 'a' is representing 'ъ') i sledva da se otnasjat po mezhdu si v duh na bratstvo. :D
I agree too, those 3 languages- Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian are dialects. So before I was wrong- Macedonian is like dialect with Bulgarian. ;)
Since we dont have a Russian really participating here, :( I will also translit the Russian version of the text.
Vse ljudi rozhdajutsya svobodnyimi i ravnymi v svoem dostoinstve i pravah. Oni nadeleny razumom i sovest'iu i dolzhnyi postupat' v otnoshenii drug druga v duhe bratstva. Little note- I used the ' when ь and it makes the pronanciation of the letter in front of it 'soft'. See, I am not too good at explaining this- we need a Russian to explain it. :gigi:
So I am coming to understand Bulgarian is closer to Russian in lots situation than Slovene, Srbian, Croatian, Bosnian. :eek: Weird, I always thought differently.
Also coming from the interpretation of the text... they have written the second part of the Bulgarian text a little bit differently. If they had written it just like the Russian one, it would be like this: Te sa nadareni s razum i savest i sa dlazhni da postapvat v otnosheniata si edin s drug v duh na bratstvo. See, I think if Bulgarian had kept it's parezhi we will be even closer to Russian. (I know freddie I still need to explain those- I am figuring it out. ;) )
I know what you're saying cool. It's the interpretation again. There are numerous ways you can write this short text. I can make slovene more close to russian just by using little different words.
let me gice you an example:
Russian sample text:
Vse ljudi rozhdajutsya svobodnyimi i ravnymi v svoem dostoinstve i pravah. Oni nadeleny razumom i sovest'iu i dolzhnyi postupat' v otnoshenii drug druga v duhe bratstva.
Slovene sample text:
Vsi ljudje se rodijo svobodni in enaki v svojem dostojanstvu in pravicah. Oni so obdarjeni z razumom in vestjo in so dolzhni ravnati v odnosu drug z drugegim v duhu bratstva.
It's a little more clumsy like this but correct none the less. For instance in the original translation of slovene "in the spirit of brotherhood" was translated "like brothers", while russian translation keept the original. I just translated it so that both versions have "in the spirit of brotherhood at the end." Plus I made some some other minor adjustments :D
We would have to find a text where we would be able to do a word for word translations. The one where improvisation wouldn't be possible at all.
But I also get the felling that Bulgarian is by far the most similar to russian as far as the south-slavic group is concearned. I wonder what historical facts contributed to this. And I wonder how slovakian and chech languages fit into this story. I wonder to which they are the most similar. Are there any chechs or slovaks in the house? ;)
coolasfcuk
05-05-2003, 16:43
Yeah freddie that looks closer to Bulgarian and Russian as you interpreted it again. :D
But I also get the felling that Bulgarian is by far the most similar to russian as far as the south-slavic group is concearned. I wonder what historical facts contributed to this.
Hmmm, well, reading all the history, this is how I can explain it. You know the two brothers Cyril and Methodius and their deciples were kicked out of Moravia (Czech, Poland, Slovenia today I am not exactly sure all the countries) Then they settled in Bulgaria, and from there the Cyrillic spread up to what is today Ukraine (at that time it was Kievska Russ -I am not sure about the english name) Russia was not as powerful- Moscow was not the moscow we know today- it was basically a bunch of little 'knjazhestvo' (I am missing the english word again, sorry) made up by the slavics. Later from Kievska Russ, the Cyrillic travelled east and made it to Moscow. This is why Ukranian is closer to Bulgarian than Russian. :D
The above was for the Cyrillic writing, which is one reason why Bulgarian is closer. Then also- I think your guys languages have been influenced more by the west- because of geographical location. That one, and two- remember the church?? We are Eastern Ortodox also- so that has to do with it also. ;)
cool that certainly would explain a lot. I just wonder which was the "primary" slavic language. To which language we know today would it be the most similar. I bet it would be somewhere in between Russian and Bulgarian.
btw: maybe you meant principality when you say 'knjazhestvo'?
QueenBee
05-05-2003, 19:00
Wow.. I always knew those languages were alike, but I never knew they were practically the same!
Donno whats up with my language tho.. its so different from all other slavic languages. :/
Originally posted by freddie
btw: maybe you meant principality when you say 'knjazhestvo'?
I'd say it means "knezevina" in Slovenian. Meaning dominion of "knez" a low/mid rank of aristocracy.
Originally posted by luxxi
I'd say it means "knezevina" in Slovenian. Meaning dominion of "knez" a low/mid rank of aristocracy.
It is knezevina. You're right.
EDIT: Luxxi i'm gonna spank you! It's not slovenian it's slovene!!!
coolasfcuk
05-05-2003, 22:51
luxxi, :done: :rose: Good Job !! That's what I meant. How sweet is that- we dont even need English dictionary to understand each other. ;)
What is knez for you is knjaz or kniaz (translited either way) for us. and knezevina for you is kinjazhestvo or kiniazhestvo for us. :gigi:
Originally posted by freddie
Words: yes. But grammatical structures? Excuse me? Like what?:rolleyes:
Plus: you surely must admit that bosinan and croatian are much more similar then then croatian and slovene.
To emhasize my point I will post a sample text from cool's link. First the slovene, then croatian, bosnian langauge and finally original text in english:
Sample text in Slovene
Vsi ljudje se rodijo svobodni in imajo enako dostojanstvo in enake pravice. Obdarjeni so z razumom in vestjo in bi morali ravnati drug z drugim kakor bratje.
Croatian sample text
Sva ljudska biжa raрaju se slobodna i jednaka u dostojanstvu i pravima. Ona su obdarena razumom i svijeљжu i trebaju jedna prema drugima postupati u duhu bratstva.
Bosnian sample text
Sva ljudska biжa raрaju se slobodna i jednaka u dostojanstvu i pravima. Ona su obdarena razumom i svijeљжu i treba da jedno prema drugome postupaju u duhu bratstva.
Translation
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
You will notice that the sample text's in croatian and bosinan are EXACTLY the same, while Slovenian is different. How can two different languages (like you claim bosnian and croatian are) have same sample texts? That's imposible. And Serbian text is indentical as well, with the exception that it's writen in Cyrillic.
Croatian is a language and it has its history and developement, Serbs tried to make it more like Serbian when we were in Yugoslavia.
I don't know about Bosnian and I didn't say anything about, but I think that many people in Bosnia people speak Croatian and Serbian.I think nobody heard about Bosnian language before the war.
The example you gave us doesn't prove anything.You chose a sentence where the difference is the smallest.
I don't understand why you keep saying that Croatian isn't different, when there is Croatian grammar,dictionary different from others, experts, linguists say that Serbian is one language and Croatian another.
:dknow:
and bulgarian is "different" from russian or macedonian but they are SO similar, just like croatian and serbian.
noone CLAIMS that it's the same, but they are so much alike, so you could practically call them dialects of the same language (but noone CLAIMS that!).
just like coolasfcuk said that she could call macedonian a dialect of bulgarian.
that's all!
here, noone CLAIMS anything, we're just discussing, right?
Croatian is a language and it has its history and developement, Serbs tried to make it more like Serbian when we were in Yugoslavia. I don't know about Bosnian and I didn't say anything about, but I think that many people in Bosnia people speak Croatian and Serbian.I think nobody heard about Bosnian language before the war.
The example you gave us doesn't prove anything.You chose a sentence where the difference is the smallest.
I don't understand why you keep saying that Croatian isn't different, when there is Croatian grammar,dictionary different from others, experts, linguists say that Serbian is one language and Croatian another.
Look. The example I gave wasn't chosen by me. That sentance was chosen by the site provided by cool's link that compares different aspects of slavic languges (so it is chosen to show the difference rather then make the difference smaller).
What experts? Sebian and croatian experts who want to differentiate two identical languages because of national tendenceies. What grammar differences? What different dictionaries? Tell me a couple examples of significant changes (not just different words). I'll mention it again. 13 yers back I learned Serbo-croatian in school and it was considered one language, with the exception of cyrillic writing in serbian (otherwise same grammar rules, same dictionaries...the works) Even a layman could see that those two langauges are amost identical, and whatever that small difference is it's down to slightly different history. I would even go as far as saying that slovene is pretty similar to both as well, but it is another langauge after all (because it does have completely different grammar + vocabulary). There are just to little difference between serbian and croatian to call them individual languages. Any serious linguist must realize this. (Some) different words don't make a different language.
the language IS different.
if it was completely the same it would have the same name, right?
anyway, the difference is barely noticable, so... ;)
coolasfcuk
06-05-2003, 00:04
Lets just say, that our languages came from one language- looooooooooooong time ago- now they are different- some a lot more different than other, and some almost exactly the same. But we are all one big happy language family and we saw few times already that we dont need dictionaries a lot of time to be able to undertsnad each other. :gigi: Next stop I say lets do Nas Ne Dogoniyat people, whenever everybody has a chance, I know it is lots of effort, bit it is FUN, no?
Originally posted by crni
the language IS different.
if it was completely the same it would have the same name, right?
anyway, the difference is barely noticable, so... ;)
I agree with that.;)
Originally posted by coolasfcuk
luxxi, :done: :rose: Good Job !! That's what I meant. How sweet is that- we dont even need English dictionary to understand each other. ;)
I noticed this before. In Chezh when we couldn't find anybody who spoke either English or German we talked in Slovene and people undestood us more or less.
That's emphasized even more in slovakain. It's even more close to slovene. Although the language "sound" nothing alike (slovakian has completely different intonations) the vocabulary is close. Almost scary sometimes :eek:
i tried to translate NND, but there's no suitable translated version to original russian lyrics. i tried to use the lyrics that i got a long time ago and (with my very little knowledge of russian) i noticed that it doesn't match. then i tried to use the one from Echoed's collection but it still has a lot of differences, which make this translation impossible for me. i'd suggest that we take Ne Ver, Ne Boisya next. anybody?
coolasfcuk
07-05-2003, 20:09
crni, sure, ne ver ne bojsya, and I can also post here the literal translation of 'Nas ne Dogonyat', that way all of us can translate the exact same text, and it will be as closest to Russian as possible, since I will translate it very literally, unlike all the other translated versions available. How's that sound?
i'll do my NVNB tomorrow (in the evening) :done:
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se
Razne nochi,
Razni ljudi,
Htjeti - ne htjeti,
Voljeti - ne voljeti.
Netko che zaostat,
Netko che pozhuriti,
Netko che se umoriti,
I prestati htjeti...
Netko che spojiti
Vodove na kleme (kontakte),
Netko che pogreshno protumachiti
Nove teme (ideje).
Netko je ludjak,
Netko je manijak.
Netko kao ti,
Netko kao ja...
Ne pali i ne gasi.
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se i ne moli,
I opusti se...
I opusti se...
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se i ne moli,
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se i ne moli,
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se...
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se...
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se...
I ne moli...
Negdje nas je mnogo,
Negdje ne dovoljno
No na putevima,
Bit che pobuna.
Netko che riskirati,
A netko neche mochi,
Netko che razumjeti,
No neche pomochi...
Netko che otichi,
Netko che se vratiti.
Netko che nachi
Novo sunce.
Netko je u grmlju,
A taj netko sam ja.
Netko kao ti,
Netko kao ja...
Ne pali i ne gasi.
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se i ne moli,
I opusti se...
I opusti se...
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se i ne moli,
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se i ne moli,
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se...
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se...
Ne vjeruj, ne boj se...
I ne moli...
that's it. and i think this particular text shows how similar croatian is to russian. most of the words pretty much match to one another :done:
bulgarian, slovenian, polish? let me hear ya! ;)
coolasfcuk
09-05-2003, 00:29
Bulgarian translit for NVNB:
Ne viarvaj, Ne boj se, Ne moli
Razni noshti, razni hora
Iskat ne iskat, obichat ne obichat
Niakoi ostava, niakoi otskacha
Niakoi se umarja, I mu se otshtyava
Niakoi zaviva zhica na klemmi
Niakoi zamutva novi temi
Niakoi prostak, a niakoi maniak
Niakoi kato teb, niakoi kato men
Ne zapalvaj i ne gasi
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se, ne moli
I uspokoi se, I uspokoi se
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se, ne moli
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se
I ne moli...
Kadeto ima mnogo, to njakade e malko
No na patya shte ima zasada
Niakoi riskuva, a niakoi ne smogva
Niakoi razbira, no toi ne pomogva
Niakoi si utiva, niakoi se vrashta
Niakoi namira novo slance
Niakoi v hrastite, a niakoi v men
Niakoi kato teb, niakoi kato men
Ne zapalvaj i ne gasi
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se, ne moli
I uspokoi se, I uspokoi se
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se, ne moli
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se
Ne viarvaj, ne boj se
I ne moli...
crni, this time Chroatian is very close to BG. :D
When I get home and have time, I will add Cyrillic version, just because... it is after all, the 'original' way of how this would be written. ;)
Ne Verjami, Ne Boj se
Razne nochi
Razni ljudje
Hoteti, ne hoteti
Ljubiti, ne ljubiti
Nekdo bo ostal
Nekdo bo odskochil
Nekdo se utrudil,
In prenehal hoteti
Nekdo bo spojil
Stike na klemi (kontaktih)
Nekdo si bo napachno razlagal
Nove teme (ideje)
Nekdo je norec,
Nekdo je manijak
Nekdo kot ti
Nekdo kot jaz
Ne zazhigaj in ne gasi
Ne verjemi, ne boj se, ne prosi
In sprosti se
In sprosti se
Ne verjemi, ne boj se in ne prosi
Ne verjemi, ne boj se in ne prosi
Ne verjemi, ne boj se
Ne verjemi, ne boj se
Ne verjemi, ne boj se
In ne prosi
Ponekod nas je veliko,
Ponekod premalo
No na poteh
Se bomo zdruzhili
Nekdo bo riskiral
Nekdo ne bo zmogel
Nekdo bo razumel
A ne bo pomagal
Nekdo bo odshel
Nekdo se bo vrnil
Nekdo bo nashel
Novo sonce
Nekdo je v grmovju
In ta nekdo sem jaz
Nekdo kot ti
Nekdo kot jaz
Ne zazhigaj in ne gasi
Ne verjemi, ne boj se, ne prosi
In sprosti se
In sprosti se
Ne verjemi, ne boj se in ne prosi
Ne verjemi, ne boj se in ne prosi
Ne verjemi, ne boj se
Ne verjemi, ne boj se
Ne verjemi, ne boj se
In ne prosi
coolasfcuk
09-05-2003, 02:09
freddie, hey, pretty good!!! This was a good song. All the languages seem close to each other. :D I think this one- croatian and slovene (even a little more- the begining and chorus iare super close) are the closest to Russian lyrics so far :gigi: Also, both are really close to bulgarian, croatian maybe a little closer. Bulgarian this time is not as close as any other song to the russian versions, but still pretty close in lots of the words.
We've definatelly changed the 'hotet' word for 'iskam' = want. and'ljubit' for us is 'obicham' when it is a verb, but the noun is still 'ljubov' (also could be 'obich' but 'ljubov' is the more used noun- weird)- I wonder how we changed that. Another one we've changed is 'prosi' which for us now is 'moli' , as in croatian, and 'prosi' now is 'beg' but when someone is begging for money.
'skochil' for us means when someone is 'jumping'. But I think 'soskochil' in russian is when someone comes and, we say, 'sticks' to you- umm, I am not sure how to explain it- maybe you can explain what the slovene or croatian words you used mean?!?
and 'otstanet' on russian, I think means the opposite of 'soskochil', meaning someone that gets away. Can you also explain the words you used again, what exactly do they mean in your laguages.
edit: see, now I read the English translation on this site- and it is translated as.... Someone will fall behind,
Someone will take the leap.
Hmm, I thought the Russian words mean something else..I dont have cyrillic on this computer (I am at work- so I can't check the exact meaning- I will when I get home), but if it really means this then the bulgarian parts should be:
Niakoi ostava, niakoi otskacha
one more word: 'otshtyava' in bulgarian is used when someone doesnt want something anymore, like they wanted it before but not anymore (or cared about something, but not anymore), so it could aslo be said like this: 'prestava da iska' (see how I explained- hotet for us is iskam now)- this is closer to your guys translations. :gigi:
I agree. It doesn't get much closer then this, after hunderds of years of separation. Especially first verse and the chorus. Really incredible.
"Prosi" in slovene can mean beg as well, but it can also mean request or ask. While "moliti" means "praying" to us. Prayer is "molitev".
EDIT: Yes "skochiti" means "jumping" to us. That's how english lyrics were translated. I don't know what the expression would be for that "stick to somebody". I'm not really sure if we have such an expression. "Ostal- ostati" means "stay - to stay." I looked at the russian text and then at the english translation and this seemed the most reasonable to me. But as you've said, maybe there is a little more to the russian lyrics there. I'm not sure.
EDIT2: 'prestava da iska' - So that would mean stop wanting, right? "Iskati" means "to search", "on je iskal" - "he searched" in slovene.
coolasfcuk
09-05-2003, 02:33
molia and molitva for us also mean- pray and prayer. :D
EDIT:'search' for us is 'tarsia' or 'tarsya', translited either way(where the first 'a' is the letter I explained before- no cyrillic so I cant type itnonw). Toi tarsi' means 'he searches'.
I will have to look up the 'stick' word in the dictionary. and also if the russian ones really mean 'leave behind' and 'jump/leap'- because I was sure they meant something else.
that is what yours mean, right freddie? 'ostal' as the bulgarian 'ostava', meaning 'fall behind' and....
'skochil' we already discussed, but in bulgarian 'skochil' is when someone 'jumps' but 'otskochil' is when they like ..hmmm....how to explain it- I think I will need the bulgarian-english dictionary again- something like 'jump off', but let me confirm it with the dictionary a little later. :gigi:
There are bunch that come from 'skochil'- 'preskochil'=jumped over, 'nadskochil'=jumed above; 'izskochil'= to jump out; 'otskochil' I already explained
for example in talkative/slang bulgarian- we say : 'otskochih do magazina' = 'I went to the store' (but means you did it very fast, went and came back FAST) so we use it like that to say we went places fast, like here-there-back here in no time, like jumping around, lol, I guess
Yes, yes: "odsochiti" - jump off - Like from a diving board at the pool. While "skochil" is just "jump".
"Ostati" could mean "to stay" (like to stay in one place), while "to fall behind" would mean "zaostati."
So maybe I should change that, but I was sure that englsih transation was wrong here, that's why I used "stay" instead of "to fall behind" ("ostati" instead of "zaostati"). But as you said it, maybe they both can be wrong, if the russian version means something else ha?
EDIT:
'preskochil'=jumped over, 'nadskochil'=jumed above; 'izskochil'= to jump out; We have every one of this except "nadskochil". Everything else is the same.
I can relate to that slang expression: we say: "skochil je do avta." Which could mean that he went to the car and came back quickly just like you explained.
coolasfcuk
09-05-2003, 03:18
freddie, exactly, now i cant wait to check it when I get back home. But aso, I might be the wrong one. Hehe, i love how we can understand eachother without dictinaries!
Hmmm, now I think about it, better 'fall behind' for bulgarian would be 'izostava' then, 'ostava' also works, like in slovene-'ostava' means to stay (back) or at (one Place). funny enough 'ostava' could also mean : 'leave', as in: 'kakvo mi ostava' = ' what is left for me' or 'ostavi me na mira' = 'leave me alone', but not 'leave' as in leaving the place, for leaving the place we will use 'tragvam si' or 'napuskam'. :gigi:
EDIT: 'otskochil do kolata' = he went to the car and back (fast, 'cause he forgot something in it perhaps) :gigi:
EDIT2:checked Uffffff, I dont know what I was thinking- LoL- must've missed that lesson in 3rd grade. ;) After all, the only time I really studied Russian was before communism fell down- and that was a while back now. I cant even remember how long exactly I studied it for- LoL- I think, third, fourth, and I am not sure if I did for part of fifth grade or not! LoL And after that, complete non-Russian state for me. Until Tatu showed up, and after a while I decided it would be good idea to pick it up again a little, before I completely forget it. :gigi: even one of my best friends at university was Russian, and we still talked in English, but he is coming back tomorrow for the summer, and guess what language we are gonna talk. :heh: K, enough of that
So, freddie I was wrong.
отстанет=otstanet= lag/fall/remain behind, be left behind, become detached, lose touch (with); break (with), leave/let alone, leave in piece.
соскочит= soskochit= jump off, spring off/down, come off
Actually the first one, otstanet is not that bad- at the end you can see- leave/let alone- that's what I meant- get away from someone. Look up at what I have posted in this post few hours ago- about 'ostava' in bulgarian! Same in Russian I guess.
OK so I guess my translation is still valid in that part. I'm still deciding if I should leave "ostati" or replace it with "zaostati". I think that both would work as far as I understand now.
Oh and I replaced "skochil" with "odskochil", because "odskochil" means jump-off, come off
'kakvo mi ostava' = ' what is left for me'
Yep, we have that to. "Kaj mi se ostane" or "kaj mi se preostane" which both means the same as in Bulgarian - leave/left.
though i'm a bit lost in all your discussions :D i must agree (once more) that our languages are very similar.
the stuff you were saying about "skochit", "soskochit", "odskochit" could also apply to croatian so i don't have nothing to add right now ;)
P.S. cool, i knew that NVNB would be a great example to show all the similarities between our languages. that's why i chose it, but i was quite surprised vhen i read your translation.
so much similarities... :D
Guys I've made 3 more: Ya Tvoya Ne Pervaya (a real bad boy, with all the abstract lyrics, but the almost identical chorus makes it all seem worth while), Ya Tvoy Vrag and Robot (I was expecting a little more from this two, because both are one-liners like NVNBNP, but there are good similarities none the less).
I'll wait until one of you posts one of these, so I can correct possible mystakes and make minor interpretation adjustments if needed. All I can say is: crni &cool - I think you'll both enjoy Robot and Ya Tvoy Vrag ;)
ok, since i prefer YTV, i'll do it b4 robot...
Tvoj neprijatelj
Tvoj neprijatelj,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj...
Tvoj neprijatelj...
Dim od cigareta,
Stari buket,
Cijeli dan gledam televiziju.
Otvoreni balkon,
I tihi telefon.
Ugushit chu se bez tebe,
I govorim sebi.
Dogodilo se,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj,
Za kakav prijestup?
Dogodilo se,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj.
Ja ne trazhim oprost.
Grad ne spava,
Vrijeme stoji.
S kim se igrash sad?
Dan ili godina,
Meni je objavljen bojkot,
Ne znam kako dalje zhivjeti.
Ti ne mozhesh oprostiti.
Dogodilo se,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj,
Za kakav prijestup?
Dogodilo se,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj.
Ja ne trazhim oprost.
Tvoj neprijatelj,
Tvoj neprijatelj.
Dogodilo se,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj,
Za kakav prijestup?
Dogodilo se,
Ja sam sad tvoj neprijatelj.
Ja ne trazhim oprost.
well, i did some compromises, but i think it's quite close to the original. i had some doubts,
so i'll see what you're gonna write and maybe change some of my words ;)
Tvoj sovrag*
Tvoj sovrag
Jaz zdaj tvoj sovrag
Tvoj sovrag
Dim cigaret
Stari buket
Ves dan gledam televizor
Nastezhaj balkon**
In molchi telefon
Dushim se brez tebe
In ponavljam sebi
preprosto se je zgodilo tako
jaz sem zdaj tvoj sovrag
za kakshen prestopek
preprosto se je zgodilo tako
jaz sem zdaj tvoj sovrag
ne zahtevam odpushchanja.
Mesto ne spi
chas stoji
S kom se igrash danes?
dan ali leto
meni je objavljen bojkot
ne vem kako naprej zhivet
ti mi ne moresh oprostit
Preprosto se je zgodilo tako
Jaz sem zdaj tvoj sovrag
Za kakshen prestopek
Preprosto se je zgodilo tako
Jaz sem zdaj tvoj sovrag
Ne zahtevam odpushchanja.
Tvoj sovrag
Tvoj sovrag
*sovrag is kinda oldfashioned expression and is rarely used anymore. The modern slovene word for enemy would be "Sovrazhnik". Btw. "Vrag" means "the devil" in slovene.
**nastezhaj means as "wide as possible", and is usualy used together with the word "odpreti" which means to open... so it would be more correct to say "nastezhaj odprt balkon" as "wide open balkony."
Btw. "Vrag" means "the devil" in slovene.
in croatian also...
we say "neprijatelj, protivnik or suparnik" for enemy...but i left "vrag".
we should ask cool what's the true meaning of "vrag" in this song so we could make the changes, if needed...
coolasfcuk
11-05-2003, 17:07
ok first: в<eth>аг = vrag = enemy in this song
Just little note: в<eth>аг = vrag also in Bulgarian. The devil for us is simply дявол = djavol
In Russian: дьявол = djavol
And the Bulgarian Translit for 'Ya Tvoj Vrag'
Az sam Tvoj Vrag
Tvoj Vrag
Az sega sam tvoj vrag
Tvoj Vrag
Dim ot cigara
Star buket
Cial den gledam v televizora
Otvoren e balkona *
I malchi telefona
Zaduhvam se bez teb
I si govorya
Prosto se poluchi taka
Az sega sam tvoj vrag
Za kakvo prestuplenie
Prosto se poluchi taka
Az sega sam tvoj vrag
Az ne prosya proshtenia
Grada ne spi
Vremeto stoi
S koj si igraesh dnes
Den ili godina
Na men mi e obyaven boikot
Ne znam kak da prodalzhavam da zhiveya
Ti ne mozhesh da mi prostish
Prosto se poluchi taka
Az sega sam tvoj vrag
Za kakvo prestuplenie
Prosto se poluchi taka
Az sega sam tvoi vrag
Az ne prosya proshtenia
Tvoj vrag
Tvoj vrag
*here I put otvoren which means open, because for us nastezh is shiroko but just as freddie said, it can't be used like 'shiroko balkon'- this makes no sense, either 'shiroko otvoren balkon' which will be 'wide open balcony' (as in the door is wide open) but I put 'otvoren e balcona' wich means ' the balcony is open' 'cause it is easier to read that way and still means the same thing - wide-open or not it is still open :gigi:
i made the necessary changes :D
Miroslav Satan= God
And that's all you need to learn.
coolasfcuk
12-05-2003, 04:32
Miroslav Satan= God
And that's all you need to learn.
Who is Miroslav? He has a nice name, ha ha ha :laugh: Care to explain a little, please?
But you're right, Satan is pretty international word, for us it is Satana. ;)
Mirolslav, Miro or Mirko among friends?;)
Yep...for us its Satan...I think all european languages have this one.
miroslav satan???:confused:
btw...here is sotona or even satan.
coolasfcuk
12-05-2003, 13:38
We have that name Miroslav also, with nickname Miro, just like you freddie :gigi: But I still didn't get it, who is he, and why is he God, and why such an Evil name, ha ha ha.
By the way, ever since I was little, my 10 years older brother has given me a nickname- Zomba :help: :flag: Yes, I was a little devil. ;)
EDIT: Ok, let me add something else here.....
I am working, and listening to all my mp3s, and one of that Katya songs came up, Kluchi, and I noticed she says: "Myi s taboi kvity", meaning: "We are [kvity]" . And in Bulgarian we say: "Nie s teb sme kvit" meaning, "we are even(quits)". Because of that, I am assuming kvit in Russian means the same- quits/even. Someone Russian confirm? :done:
Do you guys have the same expression in your languages, is that what you say: kvit?
We have: "Mi smo si kvit" or "Jaz sem si s teboj kvit" ... meaning: "we are quits/even."
"mi smo kvit" worx the same way as in russian or bulgarian :done:
coolasfcuk
14-05-2003, 23:40
It's been a while since we've translated a song. Time for a new one, lets make sure that it is once again, similar in all languages, just like all the others so far. :D
First here is the Russian words, translated very literally, pretty much word for word, hope that makes it easier to translate for you:
Us not going to catch…..
Just say,
Faraway us two.
Just lights
Aerodrome.
We will run away
Us not going to catch.
Far away from them
Far away from home.
Night-guide ( as in the night is going to guide them)
Hides our shadows.
Behind the cloud
Behind the clouds
Us not going to find (as in, someone is not going to find them)
Us not going to change (as in, someone is not going to change them)
They will not reach
Stars with hands.
Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch....
We will run away
All will be simple
Night will fall
Sky will drop
And emptiness at the crossroads.
And emptiness, us not going to catch
Don’t speak, they don’t get it (not clear to them)
Just without them
Just not past
Better not at all (in no way)
But no backwards (no going back)
Just not with them
Just not with them
Us not going to catch…
Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch....
Us not catch us…
Ok, now here comes the Bulgarian translit:
Nas ne dogonyat *
Samo kazhi
Daleche sme nie dvete
Samo svetlini
Aerodroma
Nie shte izbiagame
Nas ne dogonyat
Daleche ot tiah
Daleche ot domat
Nosht-putevoditel
Skriva nashte sianki
Zad oblaka
Zad oblacite
Nas niama da nameriat
Nas niama da izmenyat
Niama da im dostignat
Zvezdite racete
Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat…
Nie shte izbiagame
Vsichko shte bude prosto
Noshta shte padne
Nebeto shte uroni
I pustota na krastopatia
I pustota, nas ne dogonyat
Ne govori, na tiah im e ne ponyatno
Samo bez tiah
Samo ne pokrai
Po-dobre ne taka
No ne naobratno
Samo ne s tiah
Samo ne s tiah
Nas ne dogonyat...
Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat…
Nas ne dogonyat
* So, Nas ne dogonyat could be used in Bulgarian, that is why I translated it this way, to stay closer to the orginal Russian, but I would rather say: Nas niama da dogonyat or even better- Niama da ni dogonyat.
Nas = us; ni is also us or our and is used as 'us' - depending on the structure of the sentanse
niama da = not going to -
Bulgarian is more analitical language, because it dropped the 'padezh' form of the sentanse. English is very analitical language- it has NO padezh, and no femminine or masculine distictions. Also it doesnt have 'glagolni vremena', or 'glagolni sprezheniya'- something like 'verb tenses' translated into English. Bulgarian kept the 'verb tenses' though. Like this:
Here is example with one verb:
igra = play
az igraiya - I play
ti igraesh - you play
toi igrae - he plays
tia igrae - she plays
to igrae - it plays
nie igraem - we play
vie igraete - you play
te igraiyat - they play
For padezhi- hmmm- padezh is used depending on what is needed to be said. Words get different endings in Russian, depending on what padezh needs to be used for a certain situation. To know what padezh to use, there are bunch of grammar rules, and usually you can ask a question to help you figure out what padezh needs to be used. Questions like: Whose? Whom? Who? Where? ect. A lot of times a preposition is not needed- by putting the sentanse in certain padezh form (putting the ending to the word) the preposition is avoided. While in Bulgarian, since there are no padezhi, we use a lot more prepositions. Sorry, I am not explaining this very well, it is all foggy for me still, and esp. explaining it in English. But I will give you an example:
Lets take Tatu's T-shirts from USA.
Hui Voine. voina in both Russian and Bulgarian means war. Now... in Russian 'Hui Voine' literally means 'Dick to war' but to is missing, or there is no preposition in this sentanse! The ending on the word 'voina', which is 'voine' shows that the 'dick' is to the 'war'. Does it make sense?
While in Bulgarian it would be: Hui na Voinata
na is the proverb, pointing out that the 'dick' is indeed for the 'war'. ;) The 'ta' at the end is playing the role of 'the' in english, meaning - 'voina' is simply 'war, but 'voinata' = the war. And this is how you would say it in bulgarian, without the 'ta' doesnt make much sense- then I could understand it as 'a dick at war' in addition to 'dick to war'.
This is not to say Russian doesnt use proverbs, they do, but a lot less than bulgarian, because of the padezhi. In general, Russian Grammar is a Nightmare!!! ha ha :dead:
with all the "glagolska vremena", but also with (as you said) "padezhi" and stuff. that makes it even complicated than bulgarian :D and especially to a "newcomer". or if you compare it to english.
here's your example in croatian:
ja igram
ti igrash
on, ona, ono igra
mi igramo
vi igrate
oni, one, ona igraju
very fcuked up :D
Before I translate Nas Ne Dogoniat I have to comment this grammatical stuff.
And I going mad? Are padezhi what I think they are? If so then of course we have them as well. It's a base for our whole grammar. The way you described them it sounds to me that Padezhi are something we call "sklanjatve" or "sklanjatev" in singular. Words get different endings based on how you question yourself about that specific word.
For instance if you say "who or what" is this girl? And the answer would be Lena. But if you ask "who are you looking for"? The answer would be Leno (or Lenu). If you ask yourself "with who am I going to the dance?" the answer would be "z Leno" or "sa Lenom" in croatian.(with Lena). There are 6 groups of qustions which are called "skloni" and the ending changes depending on what the particualar sklon (question) is.
I know why they say Huy "Voyne" and not "Voyna", it was obvious and I never thought about it (I always thought that all slavic languages have this). It's Voyne because the question is Huy ("komu ali chemu?) Voine (in slovene you would say vojni, for this sklon (the 3th), but that is because the rules are slightly different).
Anyway I can't really explain it any better. I'd explain it much better in person with the mix of slovene and english. It's almost imposible to explain this in english. Btw the word I found in the dicionary for "sklanjatve" (and I'm pretty sure now that this is what padezhi means) is declension(s).
In addition to padezhi we also keept femminine or masculine distictions. Also we DO have 'glagolni vremena' as you say; we call them "glagolski chasi".
Ok let me take your example igrati=play in slovene:
Ednina-Singular
jaz igram
ti igrash
on, ona, ono igra
Mnozhina-Plural:
mi igramo
vi igrate
oni, one, ona igrajo
(We also have something in slovene that is called "dual", something in between singular and plural used for 2 persons ("us two"), and this changes the rules of the game immensly - all the endings change and there are other changes - that's why I'll have trouble translating Nas Ne Dogoniat, because it talks about "two girls" and I'll have to translate everything to "dual" and this will make it look strange to you).
Cool I don't understand how you don't have padezhi. How do you replace them? Always with proverbs or do you have some techniques? I was sure everybody has this (slavics I mean). I get a felling that of all slavic languages Bulgarian would be the easiest to learn of an outsider (non-slavic), because I know that padezhi is something that you have to have the felling for - you can't just learn it. And you don't make femminine or masculine distinctions?:confused: So the endings are always the same no matter what the gender is?
Please confirm to me if I have the right idea of what padezhi is. The way you described it, it can't be nothing else then "sklanjatev". Your definition could as well be used for sklanjatev.
I will translate Nas Ne Dogoniat shortly (I have some problems which I've mentioned above, but no worries, it will be there).
EDIT: The funny thing is that Bulgarian is more similar to russian as far as vocabulary is concearned, while grammaticaly it seems that croatian and slovene are closer with "padezhi", "fem-mas separation", "glagolski chasi" and such specialities.
coolasfcuk
15-05-2003, 01:07
freddie, wait wait...
First- Bulgarian does have femminine and masculine, just like we have 'glagolni vremena'- we just don't have 'padezhi'. :D Endings are different for femminine or masculine.
Ok, padezhi, yes, it is what you are describing. sklanjatve- yeah, this is skloneniya in plural or sklonenie in singular in Bulgarian, and this is what Padezhi are. And yes, all other Slavic languages have them BUT Bulgarian. so you can understand why it is hard for me to explain it in English. :gigi: Even German has 2 or 3 padezhi. And when I was studying Russian in 3-4 grade, let me tell you- it was a nightmare !!! LoL
In Russian they have names, I dont even know if I can remember all of them.... lets see:
Imenitelnyi
Roditelnyi
Vinitelnyi
Tvoritelnyi
Prilagatelnyi
Predlozhnyi
Datelnyi
I think those are all, will have to check this again.
I will have to think how to explain how we substitute padezhi- is it only with prepositions or not- let me get back to you on that issue.
As if it easier or harder- hmmm- I am not sure it is easier. And especially the cyrillic really throws people off. I have a friend-American- that is coming back home to Bulgaria with me for 2 weeks, so right now he is learning Bulgarian- ha ha ha- it is pretty interesting- the alphabet really confuses him- and from there, everything gets confused- because if you cant read its NOt good.
'who or what is that girl'= 'koe e tova momiche'- answer: 'Lena'.
'who are you looking for?' = 'kogo tarsish?' - answer is: 'Lena'
'with who am I going to the dance' = 's kogo shte hodia na tancite' - answer is: 's Lena'
See, no matter what question we ask, Lena is Lena and the ending doesnt change. ;) But all slavic languages can do the intonation thing, like: Lena could become Lenochka, Lenka, Lenok, Lenochik, Lenkichka (in Bulgarian, I dont know if Russian would say that)... and I can keep on going making up nick-names for Lena. My nick-name in Bulgaria for my close friends is Ise, but from that, they also call me: Isence, Iska, Isok...ect, ect.
EDIT: wait, reading your edit, I think you missunderstood- the only thing Bulgarian is missing is the 'padezhi', everything else we have- we have the femminine-masculine separation, we have 'glagolni vremena'. ;) The example with 'igraiya' up there- that's Bulgarian, see how it changes depending if its 'parvo, vtoro, treto lice- edinstveno chislo' or 'parvo, vtoro, treto lice- mnozhestveno chislo' that's what we call those groups- I forgot what they are called in English- singular and Plural :gigi:
'parvo' means - 'first', 'vtoro' means- 'second', 'treto' means- 'third'. 'lice' literally means 'face'. 'edinstveno chislo'- 'chislo' literally means 'number'- that's just how we call those cathegories
Edinstveno chislo = Singular
Az sam = I am- parvo lice
Ti si = You are- vtoro lice
Toi, tia, to e = he, she, it is - treto lice
Mnozhestveno chislo = Plural
nie sme = we are- parvo lice
vie ste = you are - vtoro lice
te sa = they are - treto lice
And I have a feeling, that if Bulgarian hadnt dropped the 'padezhi', Bulgarian would be alsmost the same as Russian. :gigi:
Ok I see now. So you have everything except padezhi. I was getting a little confused there. I was pretty sure you had at least gender separation and maybe "glagolski chasi." I'm glad we got that out of the way. I was getting a headache because of this - I just can't imagine a slavic language without this (gender separation + glagolski chasi) - it's after all one of the basic things we can understnd eachother by (even more then with the similar vocabulaty thing).
I also belive bulgarian would be almost the same as russian if it wasn't for this padezhi. The vocabulary is almost identical in some ways.
You're right about german they have 4 padezhi (nominativ, akkusativ, dativ, genitiv), and it is an even bigger nightmare then slavic ones.
We also have 6. padezhi (sklonov), and this is how they go:
1.) imenovalnik (kdo ali kaj?)- who or what?
2.) rodilnik (koga ali chesa?) - who or what is missing?
3.) dajalnik (komu ali chemu?) - to whom?
4.) tozhilnik (koga ali kaj) - who do I see?
5.) mestnik (s kom ali chem?) - with who?
6.) orodnik ( pri kom ali chem) - by who am I?
That sounds pretty funny to me, when you ask with whom are you going to the dance, and the answer is always Lena. To us the answer would be "Z Leno." Sometimes people who don't use "sklanjatve" yet, because they are still learning the language, we say that they have the "indian talk" - that they talk like indians (all words in basic forms, you know). He, he :D
I know what you're saying about the intonation thing: Lenochka, Lenka, Lenok, Lenochik, Lenkichka, Lenkica, Lenchica... it's all good. But I think other languages can do thi to so it's not a striclty slavic thing.
EDIT: Aha, what you call Mnozhestveno/edninstveno chislo is ednina/mnozhina for us. And what you call "lice" we call "oseba" (which litteraly means "person", so 1., 2., 3., person, prva(1),druga(2), tretja(3) oseba). Lice also mens "face" to us, but we don't use it in such a conotation here.
Ednina - singular:
Jaz sem = I am - prva oseba
Ti si = You are - druga oseba
on, ona, ono je = he, she, it is - tretja oseba
Mnozhina - plural:
mi smo = we are - prva oseba
vi ste = you are - druga oseba
oni so = they are - tretja oseba
You see? Here I was worring that you don't have this grammatical structure at all and it turns out that it is in fact pretty similar. :D
Don't hit me over the head with it but I'm gonna write "dual" as well (so you maybe can understand why Nas Ne Dogoniat looks weird.) no other slavic language has this except us so you don't have to bother even reading it. Just as a couriosity. So this is for 2 persons:
Dvojina-Dual:
midva sva = we two are - prva oseba
vidva sta = you two are - druga oseba
onadva sta = they two are - tretja oseba
coolasfcuk
15-05-2003, 03:06
Dvojina-Dual:
midva sva = we two are - prva oseba
vidva sta = you two are - druga oseba
onadva sta = we two are - tretja oseba
This is very interesting, I am super tired right now, so I am trying to think if we have something similar to this.... how would we say it...
ha ha, I keep looking at it, and Because I know how prva(parvo in BG), druga(vtoro), tretja(treto) osebi [is this how you would say oseba in plural?] (lica - this is lice in plural in Bulgarian) work, But are the first one and the third one suposed ot be both 'we'? LoL But I dont think we have anything even close to that- I will ask my mom, she knows more about this than me :gigi: But anyway, if I translate it in bulgarian it's like this:
nie dvamata(in masculine form)/dvete (in feminine form) sme = we two are
vie dvamata (masc.)/dvete(fem.) ste = you two are
te dvamata(masc)/dvete(fem.) sa = they two are
but it is in a way coming from Mnozhestveno chislo:
Nie sme
vie ste
te sa
and we just add dvama(masc.)/dve(fem.) to make it known it's two people.Same would work for 3,4,5,6,7......ect
Nie trimata(m.)/trite(f.) sme = we three are
vie trimata(m.)/trite(f.) ste = you three are
te trimata(m.)/trite(f.) sa = they three are
'and so on and so forth' for any number :D or as we say for that: ' i taka na tatak'
About the intonation- Hmmm - I dont think any language can do it. First lets stick to the names- so try to do it in english- what happens: take Nicholas for example, so nick name for it is Nick. Ok then you get Nicky- but really in english (at least in America) usually means it is a little kid, once Nick grows up , rarelly people would call him Nicky. And besides nicky, I cant think of another one! LoL
Now, the thing is that we can do the intonation thing not only with Names. ;) lets take.... simple word like 'mother' which in Bulgarian is 'maika'. So now i start... when you call your mother in english you can call her: 'mom', 'mommy' maybe 'mama' too but not very used. Now Bulgarian ways to call your mom: ' mama', 'mamo', maichitse', 'mamince', 'mamichka' (the last 3 making it sound very sweet), 'maiko' (not too nice sounding for me, but lots of kids call their mom that), 'mamishte' (if you are really pissed off at her) ect. ect those are the most often used ones, but we can make up many more, that even if it wasnt too used, people would still know what it means.
Ok if you still want to clasify 'mom' as sort of a name, since you are calling someone that, lets get another word. For example: 'kobila' which is female horse. I can say: 'kobilka' (to make it sweet), 'kobilishte' (to make it sound bad), 'kobilchitca', 'kobilarka', ect ect.
Or 'little' which is 'malko' in Bulgarian. i can say: 'manichko', 'maninko'
'piece of clothing' = "dreha', 'dreshka', 'dreshchica', 'dreshishte'
And so on, for any word
Take tatu for example, in the German interview, where Yulia is answering about Neposedi- she calls it 'Neposedkah' - this is not happening in english. It makes it sound 'sweeter'. we would do the same thing. Say in bulgarian I wanted to make the same word, 'neposedi' sound bad, I would say: 'Neposedyalishtata' and every bulgarian would know what feeling I put into the word, and that I am talking about Neposedi :gigi:
And about the Bulgarian and Russian words being very similar- yes, the thing is that in the texts, the Russian ones are amost always in some sort of padezh, so seem kind of different, but the root is always the same, and the main word (without) it being in padezh are the same in most situations. that is for words that arent completelly different, but the different ones are WAY less than the same ones. I would say 70-75% are the same(or at least have the same root), and 25-30 % are completely different.
Here is a funny story about this... So my friend from Russia is back in town, and the other day while driving to a party in a different town (loooong drive) we were discussing Russian and Bulgarian, comparing words, so one of us would say a word in their language first and the other - in theirs for comparesment, and because they werent in sentanses (so no padezhi) majority were exactly the same, or at least with the same root. then we came to the word 'window' which is completely different, I knew that but he didnt. so I said it first, I said : 'prozorec' - that's window in Bulgarian. And he said in Russian: 'okno' which is 'window'. I didnt expect it, ha ha ha, 'cause I knew it was different. I expressed my surprise and he said: ' yeah, but I understood because of- 'pro' and 'zor' " See, the roots of the words help a lot. :D
spyretto
15-05-2003, 16:50
yeah, you're right, you actually borrowed our alphabet. No much to tell, really. But your alphabet is even more complicated than ours. I have the Russian alphabet in front of me and most of the letters are the same. ( I'm using phonics cause not everybody has the Russian encoding - or the Greek encoding for that matter )
A ( same as alpha)
beh
veh B ( same as beta )
geh ( same as gama )
deh ( same as delta )
yeh E (same as epsilon )
yo
zheh
zeh Z (same as zeta )
no theta but then it starts again
kah K is the Greek kappa
lah L is lamda
ehm M is mi
ehn H is ni ( although it's written exactly as the Greek eta which is another version of "i" )
O (omicron)
peh & ehr P ( and written exactly the same as our 'pi' and 'ro' as well )
C that's our sigma (S). But in Byzantium there was no "S", just "C"
T taf
Y ypsilon
ehf or the Greek 'fi'
X that's your "H" it's our too
and then you have the psi and omega but they have different pronounciations, followed by some slavic vowels I know nothing about ( like the inverted R which obviously means yoo - as in Yulia ;)
So basically Cyril and Methodius ( the holy apostles or missionaries ) incorporated our Greek alphabet the way it was known in the Byzantium - unsirprisingly as they were Orthodox Christians and were they Greek too? ( I'm sure Cyril is a Slavic name but Methodius sounds very Greek )
And then they added a lot of extras ( probably from some old slavic alphabet? I've no clue ). So it's relatively easy for a Greek to read Russian ( and vice versa ) as long as you sort out the vowels.
That's all I know ;) but don't say the Bulgarian ( or whatever ) alphabet is the mother of all slavic alphabets, cause I'm afraid it's the Greek, my dears ( I know it's annoying but what can you do?? :D )
(all very interesting for a topic that was "Bomba Goda on TV" :p )
Cool don't bother with dvojina-dual as I said this is a strickly slovene thing. There is no other language (at least slavic one) who has this. And you guessed right, it does originate from plural (mnozhina), but it's not quite the same. We slovenes like to joke that ours is the only language in the world where 2 people can say they love eachother and it means just the two of them (it sounds different then plural). So they can share more intimacy with those words, because they concearn just them two:D .
And I made a mistake in that 3.oseba dual (of course it's they not we). Plural of "oseba" would be "osebe", dual of oseba would be "osebi" (dve(2) osebi, tri(3) osebe).
I get now the stuff you say about intination. It's very weird. Like you can color the word with emotions. Hard to explain.
Btw: Window is "okno" in slovene. I think it is "prozor" in croatian. And I would understand pro-zor, because I also know where the root comes from although we have a completely different word (okno). It's importaint that you know how a word is formed and then you can pretty much figure it out what it means. So you have to guess how other nations think about some stuff. But I guess this is only possible within a language family. I don't know if an Italian could guess a german word like that.
"Kobila" is female horse here too. Male horse is "konj".
coolasfcuk
15-05-2003, 17:25
Now that we are in the right thread, LoL, let me answer...
Of course! :gigi: I don't deny, and never did, that Cyrillic alphabet is very closely related to Greek. (This is exactly why I asked you to comment on this) After all, if you've read everything posted around here, the two brothers- Cyril and Methodius had one parent Greek and one parent Slav. They spoke both languages- greek and what was the old Slavic language. ;) And honestly, I think they took a lot of inspiration from the greek alphabet, but also a little from the latin- borrowned letters and flipped them around, mirrored them, and so on. What I was saying was that, Bulgaria, at the times, was the first country to harbor the deciples of Cyril and Methodius, and the Cyrillic writing, after they were kicked out of Moravia,and from here it spread around to Ukrain, Russia, Belarous, and whereever else.
freddie yeah I see how it works- the dual one :gigi: I am waiting to read the translation of Nas Ne Dogonyat now- should be interesting.
For us male horse is: kon.
Here you go. All the nightmares of dual-dvojina. Everything has to be adopted. And to ad to this - female dual is more complicated then the male. Ahhhh, why aren't tatu two guys?! :D
If there was no dual then the title would be something like "Nas ne dobiti"...and "...dalech midve...." would be "dalech nas dvoje"...and so on.
But you have to understand that I get almost all the russian words, it's just that we don't have this kind of expressions anymore (or they are too oldfashined in our language to use). But most of the time I can at least guess what the russian word means (just like you mantioned with okno- prozor). I understand the words like ubezhat, izmenyat, provodnik... I know very well what they mean. It's just that we have different expressions for those. You know what I'm saying?
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Samo rechi,
dalech midve
samo luchi
aerodroma
midve bova zbezhali
ne bodo naju dobili
dalech od njih
dalech od doma
noch vodnik
skrije najini senci
za oblakom
za oblaki
naju ne bodo nashli (or najdli)
naju ne bodo spremenili
ne bodo dosegli
zvezd z rokami
nebo bo padlo
noch v rokah
ne bodo naju ujeli
ne bodo naju ujeli
nebo bo padlo
noch v rokah
ne bodo naju ujeli
ne bodo naju ujeli
ne bodo naju ujeli...
midve bova zbezhali
vse bo preprosto
noch bo padla
nebo bo potonilo
In praznina
na razpotju
in praznina
naju ne bodo dobili
ne govori
oni ne razumejo
samo brez njih
samo ne mimo
boljshe nikakor
ampak ne obratno
samo ne z njimi
samo ne z njimi
Ne Bodo naju dobili...
nebo bo padlo
noch v rokah
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Ne Bodo naju dobili
nebo bo potonilo
noch v rokah
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Ne Bodo naju dobili
coolasfcuk
15-05-2003, 20:10
freddie :done: That was pretty interesting- seeing the dual 'chislo' in action :D I understood most of the Slovene translation. Here are some notes from me: (god, do I have to say once again, that I love this thread :gigi: )
Samo rechi - in BG I translated this as 'samo kazhi'. 'kazhi' for us is the right word here- 'say'. But 'rech' for us is 'speach', or 'talk. (see, the roots of different words)
dalech midve - no comment here, as you said, we dont have the dual thing, but 'dve' in bulgarian means 'two' in female form, so I understand that. 'dalech' is pretty much same for us.
samo luchi - ok I translated this as 'samo svetlini' 'svetlini' for us are 'lights' but like from a lamp. 'luchi' for us are like light rays, say from the sun, so I also understad this.
aerodroma - that one is the same in all languages so far
midve bova zbezhali - dual again, about 2 females, 'bova' is something we clearly dont have because of the dual, but 'zbezhali' I get from 'biagam' or as we have it old dialect (only used by people in the villages speaking dialects) 'begam', meaning 'run' :)
ne bodo naju dobili - I will stop commenting on the dual one from here, but 'dobili'- ok, I get this because we say: 'dobil' or 'sdobil'- when someone gets something
dalech od njih - I find it funny how you say 'od' and we say 'ot' ha ha, while pronauncing it, you cant hear the difference as much, but reading it definatelly looks funny. I get 'njih' because of Russian, for that we say 'tiah'
dalech od doma - this one is pretty much the same as ours
noch vodnik - 'noch' for us 'nosht'. 'vodnik', I get this because we say: 'vodia'- meaning 'to lead'. But for guide we say 'putevoditel' - from 'put' or 'pat' (second letter is the vowel I explained) = 'road/path' and 'vodia'= 'lead' or 'voditel' = someone that leads. :D
skrije najini senci - this is pretty much the same as in BG: "skrie nashte senki'
za oblakom - pretty much the same, but since no padezh for us- oblak stays oblak, and 'za' for us is 'zad. 'za' means 'for' for us.
za oblaki - no need for comment here
naju ne bodo nashli (or najdli) I get this because of Russian- 'nashli' :)
u ne bodo spremenili I get this because: 'menia' in BG is 'change'. Except we use different prefix for the word, the root is still the same. 'izmenili' for us or 'spremenili' for you
bodo dosegli we have: dosiagam' - meaning 'reaching' but we wouldnt use it in this sentance, we would use: 'dostigam'. which is also reach'. Now reading 'bodo' I thought of our word: 'buda" or "bada" (translited either way since the second letter is the vowel I explained before)- it means 'be' in the future. So if I say: 'az shte buda' means 'I will be' :)
zvezd z rokami - this is pretty much the same as in BG but in some padezh
nebo bo padlo - ok I understand this one because: 'nebo' is pretty much the same as 'nebe' for us. (is it in padezh? that's why it ends on 'o'?) then 'padlo' - we have: 'pada' = 'fall' we would say: 'nebeto e padnalo' = 'the sky has fallen' but I wonder if you guys have something close to 'ronia' or 'ronja' (translited either way) 'uronja' is better word here, because it means - hmmm how to explain it- it implies pieces, like you took a piece of something - for example we say: 'hliaba se roni' = 'the bread is coming into pieces', like it is becoming crumbles- does it make sense?
noch v rokah - Well I also get this one because- I translated it as 'dlani' which is 'palms' in english. But 'ruce' or 'race' (again that vowel) is 'hands' for us. 'race' is in plural though, in singular it is: 'raka' or 'ruka' :)
midve bova zbezhali - no need to comment, since I already explained 'biagam'
vse bo preprosto[/b] - pretty much the same as BG
noch bo padla - already explained 'pada'
[b]nebo bo potonilo - now where is 'potonilo' coming from?? I dont understand this one
In praznina - I understand this one, because: 'praznina' for us is 'emptiness' but in this sense it is better to say 'pustota' which also means 'emptiness'. I will have to think how to distinguish between 'pusto' and 'prazno'. hmm...'pusto' implies inhabitance- like there nothing happening around, while 'prazno' is empty, as in the 'bottle is empty', while if there is no one around you in the world it is 'pusto', makes sense?
na razpotju - I get this from 'put' or 'pat' (once again that vowel, lol) which is 'road' so the root helps again
in praznina - already explained that one
naju ne bodo dobili- and this one also explained
ne govori - this is 100% the same, lol
oni ne razumejo - I get this because: 'razumejo'- ok, we have 'razum' as I explained a while ago- meaning .. looking for the word in english...ah, I cant think of it in english and I am at work, will have to edit this later, sorry, but it makes sense to me
samo brez njih - 'samo' same for us exactly, 'brez' almost the same as 'bez', and hjih' like I said I understand from Russian
samo ne mimo - understand from Russian
boljshe nikakor - 'boljshe' is like 'bolshe' in Russina, which is 'more' so I can kind of see how this becomes 'better' more than good you know, 'nikak' for us, 'nikakor' for you- same root
ampak ne obratno - ampak' is something we dont have, be the rest is the same
samo ne z njimi - once again, pretty much the same structure, except 'nijmi' for you, 'tiah' for us, and also we say 's' and you say 'z'- ha ha, how funny, once again saying it could sound the same, but writting it down looks different and funny- this tells you just how the pronanciatin was the same, and then when the slavs split- you started writing it one way and we the other
samo ne z njimi
Ok, this is it from my analysis, see how close it is- I understand pretty much everything :D
Wow Cool I loooved your analisis!!!:p
You see this is what I was trying to say the whole time: even when the word is not the same you can pretty much guess it what it means by figuring out the root. I fell exactly the same way.
Just some additional explanations:
Samo rechi - rechi is the correct here in slovene, although this word could also mean speech or talk as you said. I know kazhi of course because croatian is "kazhi". "Kazati" in slovene means "to point at something". It's funny how some words changed their meaning in time.
samo luchi - luchi are like from a lamp for us, while svetloba is more like the light from the sun.
dalech od njih - - yup, you say "ot" while we say "od". but the funny thing is that when I speak it it sounds like "ot". So this is just the writen word taht's different while pronounciation is the same.
noch vodnik - - Voditi = to lead in slovene. So we all have a similar verb. And when you say "putevoditel' I know exactly what you mean with it, although we don't have that word. Pot=path in slovene and voditelj= almost the same as "vodnik". So you could say voditej instead of vodnik in some cases.
u ne bodo spremenili - ha, ha... menia yes. I understand what "izmenili" means and you know what "spremenili" means because the root is the same.
nebo bo padlo: Nebo is not in any padezh (well everything is in padezh, but this is the 1.one= imenovanik, so the basic form). The reason why nebo ends with -o is because it's middle gender (srednji spol - not feminine, not masculine...) and those words tend to end with -o. The ending can then change depending on which padezh or sklon it is but this is the basic form. Doesn't the russian word also end with an -o?:ithink:
And now to padlo...yes I took that from pada - to fall the same as with you. And I was wondering about that "uronja" stuff. Actualy "roniti" means "to dive" in croatian and I thought it might have to do with something going under the water figuratively speaking. And slovene word for "to dive" is "potopiti" (that would be uroniti in croatian I think), that's why I translated it once as "potopiti." But nevermind I though that this was wrong anyway. And the way you say it now: "to crumble"....hmmm.... we don't have anything similar, maybe "zdrobiti"....
noch v rokah - Yes. We have "dlani" as palms as well. If I translate it that way it would be "noch v dlaneh". Roke is plural yes. Singular is "roka". Pretty close. And if I understand correctly you have that half-vovel sound in raka-ruka (like slunce right?). We pronounce it similar to this.
nebo bo potonilo - I explained this on above. I understand "roniti", "uroniti" it's a familiar word to me but not in that context I guess.
In praznina -- Pusto- prazno: Yep exactly like you've said. We distiguish those to words exactly like that. The problem is we have such word as "pustota" for us. Maybe "puschoba" but it's not used often. "Praznina" is used the most, but "puschoba would be good I guess.
na razpotju - Yep the root helps here. We have "pot" and you have "put/pat which means road. And that raz- od- pri- are standard slavic prefixes that are used differently, but you usualy get the felling what was meant.
I'm beginnin to see a patern developing here: Wherever you have that half-vowel sound we use -o instead. Look at this: raka/ruka- roka, slance/slunce- sonce, put/pat - pot. Looks like we have droped that sound, 'cause it was to inconveniant for us to pronounce or something and replaced with -o's everywhere:D
oni ne razumejo - Razum, um (Like: Ya Soshla S Uma) we have that and this is where this word comes from. Razum means "mind" and also other stuff as well, but I can't find any apropriate english terms.
samo ne z njimi - About s/z: We may write z but "z" is very hard to pronounce and it always comes out as "s" - "s njim"...So this is a difference in writing as well.
You described in your analisis exactly the way in which I can understand Russian, Croatian and Bulgarian: some words are not the same, but the roots are, some words you have a felling of what they mean, some words are indeed the same or pretty close and it all ads up. Fabulous! :D
coolasfcuk
15-05-2003, 23:49
Yeah, freddie, Fabilous indeed! I think this is how we should analyze. ;) now we need Croatian too. And I have a feeling, soon I will be ready to come visit those countries, and do pretty good undertsnding and replying. :gigi:
Little additions from me in return:
'point at something' for us is pokazhi. It also means show,same in Russian, so see, pokazhi the root is still there - just different prefix :gigi:
you say svetloba for light from the sun. We have svetlina which is 'light' in general or svetlo,which is an adjective, means 'light'. svetia means to 'shine'.
nebo is middle gender (srednji spol - not feminine, not masculine... He, for us also. 'nebe' is middle gender (we call it- sreden rod, not 'zhenski rod', not 'mazhki rod') I guess our middle gender words are either ending on 'o' or 'e', I am not sure if one of the 2 letter more than the other. And yes, the Russian is also on 'o'- 'nebo'. :)
"potopiti" I understand that, we have - topia to 'dip', from it we have potopia - to 'dive, to dip something in'
"zdrobiti"....yeah, you are getting there, we have drobia which I am not sure how to translate in english- to cut, make something in small pieces. for us drobia and ronia are synonyms, so I perfectly understand what you mean. But I dont think we can say 'nebeto nadrobi noshta v dlanite mi'..ahhh, I will get back on this one latter, I will have to figure out how to distinguish between 'ronia' and 'drobia'.
And if I understand correctly you have that half-vovel sound in raka-ruka (like slunce right?) yes, this is that vowel in raka/ruka. But for us it is full vowel, he he, ;)
Next time we should compare some words with our 'weird' vowel, taht you call half-vowel and see it is true that you have 'o' instead of it. :D
Yes, yes exactly 'razum' is 'mind' and a little more than that, but like you I cant find appropriate english words. And yes, 'razum' comes from 'um' we also have that.
We also have pokazhi /pokazati, and it means "to show", but just kazati means "to point at something". For instance if I translated the chorus of Ya Tvoya Ne Pervaya it'd be pokazhi mi ljubezen (pokazhi mne lyubov'-show me love). So show is pokazhi as well, but when it's used without the prefix as kazhi then it means "to point at something."
Svetlo as adjective - we have it. The same. "To shine" is svetiti.
Ok so you have drobia. I thought so. We can also say "drobiti" which would mean "to crumble", and zdrobiti basicly means the same (I'm not really sure what the difference is really:confused: ) Maybe if you could explain the difference between roniti and drobiti I could find a word in our language that would suite this one.
I looked into a slovene-engish dictionary to see what it says for "razum" and this is what it had to offer: mind, intellect, sense, reason, inteligence; figuratively: brain; zdrav razum : common sense, proti zdravemu razumu: against common sanse.
I had a problem with Ya Soshla S Uma. I could easily translate it as Jaz sem shla z Uma, but the problem was we don't have an expression like this although all the words are correct and every slovene would understand what you're talking about. It would just look odd.
This is where my theory about the "half-vowel" being replaced by o comes from. In some regions of Slovenia, people say "roka" and "pot" in dialect exactly like you described it with a "half-vowel". So maybe this is a left-over from the "old language", because dialects often keep such things that moden language doesn't have anymore. And maybe it's not replaced only with o's, maybe also other vowels. But the 3 words that I've heard so far (slunce-put-ruka are always replaced with o). Maybe you should give me some more examples of this vowel in a word, but this will be difficult, because the word would have to be the same in both langauges to make the comparison. (so far we have been lucky with the three above).
coolasfcuk
16-05-2003, 03:38
The translations you got from your dictionary for razum sound perfect!! same in bulgarian- I will also add what the bulgarian-english dictionary has to offer when I get home. :)
Ya Soshla S Uma = Izgubila Sam si Uma ( izgubila could also be zagubila- both would be the same.
Izgubila/zagubila = lost in female form
sam where the a is the vowel, means = 'am' or that i am the female that has lost something
si = also a little thing that points out that the mind being lost is mine (I think this might be one of the extra 'words' (I will have to see exactly what those type of words are called in english), that we have in substitution for all of your padezhi :D
Uma = mind . the a at the end- ah that is hard to explain. It is part of grammar rules, I will have to revisit Bulgarian grammar to be able to explain it- ha ha ha, shows you how many things I've forgoten.
By the way, we also have a shorter expression also: poludiyala sam = I've gone crazy/lost my mind. comes from lud for masculine or luda for feminine = 'crazy' with prefix 'po'. :D it is just as used as 'zagubila sam si uma'.
ok few other words with the vowel: (lets hope they are similar)
to know which one is the vowel, I will spell it once with u once with a
kamping or kumping = camp grounds
kashta or kushta = house
prast or prust = finger....
oh how about this one.. bulgaria or balgaria ha ha ha, yes, we spell the name of our country with this vowel
dano or duno = bottom
pap or pup = belly bottom
purzha or parzha = to fry
palen or pulen = full
dalag or dulag = long
davcha or duvcha = to chew
kosam or kosum = one hair
then , kasam or kusam = to tear - otkasni or otkusni = tear off
stalba or stulba = stair
Ok, those are enough for know, hope some of those have similar root. :D
Izgubila Sam si Uma. You can also say it like that in slovene; thought Jaz sem shla s uma would be more OK.
izgubila - in slovene this is also "lost" in feminine form, male form would be izgubil
sam - this would be sem in slovene
si - we have "si" but it's not used in this case (I don't know exactly why, I think that "si" would be used only if you had to "stress" that you've done that to yourself...I can't really explain that
uma - the same as well.
So if you'd try to say this in slovene it would be: Izgubila sem um. (um is in padezh - 4.sklon) But again although this is grammaticaly correct we don't have an expression like this. We would prefer to say: Izgubila sem glavo - I've lost my head.
poludiyala sam - I know this because lud - luda and poludio-poludila is "crazy" and "gone mad" in croatian, so we use this word as well although it's not our own. Our word would be ponorela - ponorel because nor and nora means crazy. But lud - luda is perfectly understandable to me. So here we have a different example: the words is not the same, but the prefix is (po).
OK, let me see those words now:
kamping or kumping = we say kamping
kashta or kushta = Hisha
prast or prust = prst (there is that sound in the middle
between p and r, but it's not writen!!!!)
Bulgaria or Balgaria - Bolgarija (there's the o ;) )
dano or duno = dno (again that sound, but it's not written down, it's just there)
pap or pup= popek (-o again)
purzha or parzha = prazhiti (the sound disapears between p and r and the vowel becomes -a after p and r)
palen or pulen = poln (pronounced poven); there's the -o again
dalag or dulag = dolg (again the -o)
Last 4. words are different (davcha or duvcha = zhvechiti in slovene, kosam or kosum= lasje in slovene; but I understand kosam, because it's "kosa" in croatian; kasam-kusam = wait we have this one: "kosam" or "razkosam" so here is -o as well, but tear off is "raztrgati", stalba or stulba = stopnica)
OK what can we draw from this? I think that the half-vowel is replaced by o more often then with other vowels, (dolg, poln, sonce, pot roka, kosat, bolgarija...) but sometimes it's replaced with other vowels as well (lika -a in camping, but this is a foreign word so it's a bad example). And sometimes the half-vowel is still there, but it's not writen down (like prst), and somewhere it was moved (parza/purza- praziti).
coolasfcuk
16-05-2003, 23:25
Checked the dictionary for razum too, same stuff:
razum- reason, intelligence, mind, wit(s), zdrav razum- common sense, vapreki zdravia razum- against one's better judgement/common sense (by the way we also have the word:'protiv' which means 'against' but I guess it is not used in this phrase)
Then, I said I will explain the a at the end of 'uma' from 'Az Sam Si Izgubila Uma'. Well, i guess in English these things are called: article with the objective case. There is also article with the nominative case, which would make the word: 'umat', where the a is again that vowel of ours. :gigi:In bulgarian we call the first one: 'kratak chlen' = 'short article' and the second- 'palen chlen' = 'full article'. ('palen' again has 'the' vowel, so could be 'pulen')
oh, and about si- yeah I guess ours is like yours freddie- that is what I meant, that it shows 'I did something to myself' I am not sure how to explain it any other way.
I see. We would call those kratek and poln chlen, but I'm not sure if we have those. So you are saying that the a at the end of um-a is because of this?
That's funny but when I say: "Jaz sem shla s Uma", the a at the end would be there because of the padezh (3.sklon). I don't even think about the a at the end of your translation, because I'm naturaly inclined to read everything in padezh:hmmm:
Interesting.
EDIT: I just thought of some more words in srednji spol (middle gender), and they don't just end in -o...there are also others ending with -e (like okolje-environment, dekle- girl, zhrebe- little horse)
coolasfcuk
25-05-2003, 23:30
freddie, mdaaaa, Elf said it correct. Shows ya who's Russian ;) I hope (s)he comes here and joins us with the Slavic language discussions, then we will have a Russian representative :gigi:
еле= yele = barely, hardly - ha ha, my mistake to be thinking it means almost, that's pochti, edva. Same words, 'pochti, edva', for Bulgarian 'almost' ;)
And the Nereal'no part- ha ha , Yulia always mumbles, says the words fast and eats half of them out! she's a nightmare for me to understand- even my mom couldnt understand her, and for my parents generation Russian is almost like their own language- they learned it and used it for decades. Maybe she's just out of traning ;)
In Bulgarian we have the same word: Nerealno, and we use it the same way: 'Unreal'. Comes from realnost = reality. 'realno' means 'real' , so with 'ne' in the front- it becomes 'unreal' :gigi:
Thanks to Elf though- when I read the translit, and listened, made perfect sense. :gigi:
By the way, we have the same words in Bulgarian (once again): vaobshte = in general, like - same as Elf described it- meaningless kind of, you just put it in the sentanse like 'like' in English. ;) [In Bu;lgarian it is spelled a little differently though, I cant remember if it is: въобще or ваобще- (this is 'that' vowel in the first case, or simply 'a' in the second- ahhh, I have forgotten how to spell it !!) while in Russian it is: вообще, but the 'o' is pronaunced kind of like 'a' ;) ]
Same goes for prosto, in Bulgarian it means simply, but once again, you use it like vaobshte It is spelled exactly the same in both languages(Russ + Bg): просто
yele - we don't have that one. But you said that you also say edva; well that I know, because croatian is jedva (sometimes it really helps to know 2 slavic languages). Our word is way off = komaj
vaobshte- we don't have that one eather, but I remember that croatian has uopshte... I'm not sure if it's the same... I think it is...
prosto - Hehe, we say preprosto which means simply as well and we also use it (surprise, surprise!) as "like" (the meaningless kind). How do you say that in english? Smalltalk?
Nerealno - We use exactly the same word for unreal. realnost is reality as well. Realno - is "real", and we also put "ne" infront so it becomes nerealno meaning "unreal"
I must say that I love this word and use it every day constantly. but although we have the same word as you guys or the russians there is no way in hell that I would figure it out on my own that Yulia said "nerealno" there. :gigi: It's so much harder when people are talking so fast and unclear.
Yeah, I also hope that elf will join our little family here as russian representative. We need someone from the biggest slavic nation out there.:D
coolasfcuk
26-05-2003, 04:54
Ha ha, yes, Yulia mumbles like crazy, and lately it has been worse than before, at least for me. In earlier interviews she spoke waaaaaaaay better! :yes:
Yes, pochti, edva, again, exactly the same in Russian and Bulgarian, spelled like this: почти, едва, edva is more like barely, just ;)
Those words, and the phrases that come with them seem 100% identical in Russian and Bulgarian :gigi: Here are some examples for edva, which are all 100% identical in both languages:
едва ли не = edva li ne = perhaps, almost
едва ли = edva li = not likely, unlikely
едва-едва = edva-edva =
scarcely; hardly
and your word komaj, he he, are you surprised when I tell you that komaj for us means: perhaps, but it is really old, and more like a dialect word, like only old people in the villages use it ;)
coolasfcuk
26-05-2003, 05:18
K, I thought I'd make a new post, a little bit Eurovision related, since it is that time of the year :gigi:
When I was watching the contest, and the Bosnian, and Croatian ones performed (I know, it sucks, I had to leave my comp for a little bit, and that was at the end, so I misses Slovenia- so I dont even know if it was performed totally in english or not?! Let me know) But anyway- the Croatian and B+H performances - :laugh: I understood most of it! :D
This is what I remember, this is not all I understood, but simply what I fastly scratched on piece of paper, cause I thought of this thread :gigi:
Croatia:
Za lud se trudish
Da se uchish
Ne sam gora (??)
Ne sam ona koja trpi
Ha ha, that's all I could write down, hope it is not too much off, in fact it might be in the spelling, but that is because I am transliting it in a way, because all those similar words for us are in Cyrillic.
Here it is translated in Bulgarian, at least what I heard (lets hope its right), and what it means:
Za lud se trudish : 'za' = for; 'lud' = 'crazy', 'trudish' = 'to work' - so something like: 'you're working for nothing'?
Da se uchish : 'da' = 'to', 'uchish' = 'study' - so something like: 'to study' , 'to learn'?
Ne sam gora : 'gora' = 'forest', so something like: 'I am not forest'? Makes no sense to me, lol, I probably heard that wrong
Ne sam onaja kojato tarpi [here, the 'a' in tarpi is 'that' vowel of ours] : 'onaja' for us is : 'that one for female', 'kojato' = 'which', 'tarpi' = 'to stand' ahh I forgot the better word in English, I will have to look it up in the dictionary. (Like, when someone is pissing you off, and you are being nice and patient to them, you are 'tarpeliv' ;) ), so something like: 'I am not the one that is patient'
Bosnia+H:
Lazh me. Nishto ne mozhe
Kade se gubi svet
Kazhi, kazhi kako e
za mene
That's what I heard, and here it is translated in Bulgaria, once again like Croatian, pretty close (that is, if I have heard it correctly that it):
Lazhi me. Nishto ne mozhe : 'lazhi me' = 'lie to me'. 'nishto' = 'nothing', 'mozhe' = 'can', so something like: 'nothing can'?
Kade se gubi sveta (svetlinata)? : 'kade'= 'where'; 'gubi' = loose'; 'sveta' = 'world', but I am not sure if 'svet' means 'world' , or 'light', that is why I put both, one in (), so something like: 'where is the light/world disapearing'
Kazhi, kazhi, kak (kakvo) e : 'kazhi' = 'tell/say', 'kak' = how or 'kakvo'= 'what' I am not sure which one of those two 'kako' is, that is why I put both again, so something like: 'tell me, tell me, what is it' or 'tell me, tell me how is it'
za mene : 'za'= 'for', 'mene'='me', so : 'for me'
OK first our song. it was the last one - Karmen Stavec and it was competely in english. The english title was Nanana (Lep Poletni Dan in original Slovene - Nice Summer Day)... it was translated almost word by word to english... "...He sang to me nananana..." was a translation of the original refrain: "....zapel mi je nananana..." The song sucked anyway, so you didn't miss much.
OK, now the croatian one. I'll make a full tranlation to Slovene and Englsih later. For now just the stuff you've mentioned:
uzalud se trudiљ = Slovene: "Zaman se trudish"
Uzalud means "in vain" in slovene "zaman", and yes the root of the word comes from lud (crazy), trudish se...well it could mean to work, but the word has many meanings: to labour, to exert oneself, to strive, to endeavour... in this case trudish means "trying- to try"... So this sentance would mean: "...Your strugles are in vain..." or "...you are trying for nothing..." as if you won't sucede no matter what you do...
Prekasno sad je da se uchish = Slovene "...Prepozno je zdaj, da se uchish..." You only caugt a part of the sentance. "...da se uchis..." indeed means "to learn", Prekasno/prepozno is "to late"... and "sad/zdaj" means "now".
So the translation is = It's to late to learn now...
Ne sam gora - hmmm im not sure where this is from... I checked the lyrics and maybe it's from the first two verses of this, and the third verse was the one you recognised...
Vishe nisam tvoja,
nisam ona koja
trpi da bi bila voljena
Vishe= "any more" (vech in slovene) Nisam ("I'm not"=feminine form, in Slovene nisem), Tvoja ("yours", in slovene tvoja), so= I'm not yours anymore
nisam("I'm not"- feminine), ona (you lnow this one;) ), koja ("who"...this is not a real word...I don't know how they are called, "pomozhne besede" "ona koja", means "the one who"-in feminine form)...so this is "I'm not the one who" in slovene: "...nisem ona ki..."
trpi ("suffering", in slovene trpi as well) da bi bila ("in order to be", in slovene "da bi bila"), voljena ("loved" in slovene "ljubljena"), "...is suffering in order to be loved" slovene: "...trpi da bi bila ljubljena..." the word you meant "patient has the same root, but in slovene it is "potrpezhljiv" - "is patient", or "potrpeti=to be patient... I think that this is the word that corresponds with "tarpeliv".
and "gora" is not "forrest". Gora is mountain (In slovene as well). Forrest is "gozd" in slovene or "shuma" in croatian-serbian.
OK, now to Bosnian lyrics:
Lazh mi nishta ne mozhe - slovene: "Lazh mi nich ne more"
you guessed all the words correctly but you missheard some parts so the meaning is a little different. To be honest I misshear a lot when I'm just listening. I didn't even hear this song. I just copy the lyrics...
"lazh" = "a lie" (in slovene the same) the second on is mi not me (and mi means "to me"), If it would be "me" then it would be like you've said ("lie to me")... nishta (you were correct, it's "nothing". In slovene: "nich"), mozhe (correct again, it's "can")... the translation: "A lie can't do nothing to me"
Kada se gubi sve (Haha, I thought it was kada se gubi svet as well, when I listened to it right now...) You're right "svet" = the "world" (also in slovene), but "sve" means "all" (it's "vse" in slovene. And "kada" means "when" not "where" (it's "ko" in slovene)... gubi (you're right it's "loose"; "zgubi" in slovene), so the translation is: "When everything's lost"..." or "when you've lost everything". In slovene= Ko se zgubi vse"
Kazhi, kazhi kako e = Correct. But it's "je" instead of "e" (but the "j" is hard to hear I know). So "'tell me, tell me how is it". In slovene: "povej, povej kako je"
Za mene= Correct. "For me." In slovene "za mene".
EDIT: komaj can mean perhaps also;)
Bosnian lyrics:
Ne brini
Odlazi dan
Ti polako za njim kreni ali sam
Jer izgubiti ceљ igru
Ovu igru koju odavno vec znam
Ne brini, ne brini za mene
Lazh mi nishta ne mozhe
Kazhi, kazhi kako je
Kada se gubi sve
Pred svima govorish da nishta ne patish
Da me ne volish, baby
Sad, vazhi, pokazhi
Da moћeљ bez mene
Jer samo dvije rijeci
Danas ti zhelim reci
Bar, bar, bar za kraj
Ne brini...
Ma samo dvije rijeci
Danas ti zhelim reci
Bar, bar, bar za kraj
(Ne brini, ne brini za mene)
(Lazh mi nishta ne moћe)
Kazhi, kazhi kako je
Kada se gubi sve
Ne brini...
Slovene translation:
Ne Skrbi
Odhaja dan
Ti pochasi pojdi za njim ampak sam
ker bosh izgubil igro
to igro, katero ze od davno poznam
Ne skrbi, ne skrbi za mene
Lazh mi nich ne more
povej, povej kako je
ko se izgubi vse
Pred vsemi govorish, da nich ne trpish
da me ne ljubish, baby
zdaj, vazhi, pokazhi
da zmoresh brez mene
ker samo dve besede
danes ti zhelim povedati
vsaj, vsaj, vsaj za konec
ne skrbi...
samo dve besedi
danes ti zhelim povedati
vsaj, vsaj, vsaj za konec
Ne skrbi, ne skrbi za mene
Lazh mi nich ne more
povej, povej kako je
ko se izgubi vse
ne skrbi...
englsih translation
Dont Worry
The day is going (dissapearing)
You go slowly with him (behind him) but alone
because you will lose the game
This game that I've known for ages
Don't worry, Don't worry about me
A lie can't do nothing to me
say, say how it is
when everything is lost .
You talk infront of everybody, that you are not hurting at all
That you don't love me baby
now, OK, show,
that you can do without me
because only two words
I want to say to you today
at least, at least, at least for the end
Don't worry
just two words
I want to say to you today
at least, at least, at least for the end
(don't worry, don't worry about me)
(a lie can't do nothing to me)
say, say how it is
when everything is lost
don't worry
Maybe Crni could do a croatian transaltion, but I have a felling it would be the same ;)
Oh, yeah: Maybe you could tell me something: what is "vazhi" translated into english. I know what it menas but I can't translate it.
original croatian:
Vishe nisam tvoja
Ja ne trebam nikoga -
da mi govori
kojim putem trebam ravno,
a kojim skrenuti.
I 'ko si ti sada da mi sudish,
uzalud se trudish,
sve je propalo.*
Prekasno sad je da se ushish,
vesh me gubish predugo,
baр predugo...
Refrain:
Vishe nisam tvoja,
nisam ona koja
trpi da bi bila voljena.
Bit їu uvijek svoja,
loshija il' bolja,
al' їu biti sigurna;
u sebe sigurna.
Ja ne trebam nikoga -
da pokazuje.
Shto to trebam, shto se smije,
a shto ne smije.
I 'ko si ti sada da mi sudish,
uzalud se trudish,
sve je propalo.
Prekasno sad je da se uchish,
vech me gubish predugo,
bash predugo...
Refrain
I 'ko si ti sada da mi sudish,
uzalud se trudish,
sve je propalo.
Prekasno sad je da se uchish,
vech me gubish predugo.
Refrain x 2
*propalo means something else but I couldn't find a proper translation. This is close.
Slovene translation:
Nisem Veи Tvoja
Jaz nikogar ne potrebujem-
da mi govori
po katerih poteh moram ravno
in po katerih obrniti
Kdo si ti zdaj da mi sodish?
zaman se trudish
vse je propadlo*
prepozno je zdaj da se uchish
zhe predolgo me izgubljash
pach predolgo
Nisem vech tvoja
nisem tista ki,
trpi, da bi bila ljubljena
Bom za vedno svoja
slabsha ali boljsha
ampak bom sigurna
v sebe sigurna
jaz ne potrebujem nikogar
da pokazhe
kaj jaz rabim, kaj se sme
a kaj ne sme
Kdo si ti zdaj da mi sodish?
zaman se trudish
vse je propadlo
prepozno je zdaj da se uchish
zhe predolgo me izgubljash
pach predolgo
refren
Kdo si ti zdaj da mi sodish?
zaman se trudish
vse je propadlo
prepozno je zdaj da se uchish
zhe predolgo me izgubljash
refren 2x
English transaltion:
I'm not yours anymore
I don't need nobody
to tell me
which path (or way) I have to take straight
and which to turn
but who are you to judge me
you are trying in vain
everything was ruined
It's to late now for you to learn
you have been losing me for to long
just to long
I'm not yours anymore
I'm not the one who
suffers to be loved
I will forever be my own
worse or better
but I'll be sure
sure in myself
I don't need nobody
to show
what I need, what is allowed
and what is not allowed
how are you now to judge me?
You are trying in vain
everything is ruined
It's to late now to learn
you have been losing me for to long
just to long...
refrain
how are you now to judge me?
You are trying in vain
everything is ruined
It's to late now for you to learn
you have been losing me for to long
refrain 2x
coolasfcuk
27-05-2003, 00:45
Haha, thanks freddie! Really enjoyed the analysis. Here is my coments after reading it. By the way, you can see how I was hearing things, a little bit influenced by Bulgarian, ha ha ha, but never the less- close enough ;) Plus, I never read lyrics to any of the songs until you posted them now, all that I posted was completely from listening to it live, so even better eh?
uzalud se trudis<caron> = Slovene: "Zaman se trudish"
Very well, when I said 'you work for nothing' thats exactly what I meant, since we use it the same way, but we say: trudish se za nishto which literaly translated means: 'you try/work for nothing' 'trudish' for us can also means strive, try, in addition to work, 'nishto' for us is 'nothing'
'zaman' sounds very familiar, I think it might be another old word, that I have heard old people use in the villages, but I am not 100% sure, will verify with my mom.
Prekasno sad je da se uchish = Slovene "...Prepozno je zdaj, da se uchish..."
Yeah only the second part I guess, but here is the first part for us: kasno e, za da se uchish 'kasno' means 'late', 'too late' for use would be 'tvarde kasno', but the sentance sounds better without the tvarde part. our 'za da' seems very close to your 'zdaj'
Vishe= "any more" (vech in slovene) Nisam ("I'm not"=feminine form, in Slovene nisem), Tvoja ("yours", in slovene tvoja), so= I'm not yours anymore
Here it is in Bulgarian: Veche ne sam tvoja - 'veche' alsmost the same as your 'veche', 'ne sam' almost the same as 'nisam(c)/nisem(s)' except it is broken into 2 words, 'ne' is no and 'sam' comes from 'az sam' = 'I am"; 'tvoja' is 100% the same :D
nisam("I'm not"- feminine), ona (you lnow this one;) ), koja ("who"...this is not a real word...I don't know how they are called, "pomozhne besede" "ona koja", means "the one who"-in feminine form)...so this is "I'm not the one who" in slovene: "...nisem ona ki..."
so I got that one pretty close again, except, again, inspired by Bulgarian- I wrote it as 'ne sam' instead of 'nisam' he he, but when you say it/hear it sounds the same ;)
So in bulgarian it is: Ne sam onazi kojato just as i wrote it in the previous post. 'onazi' and 'kojato' are pretty close to 'ona' and 'koja' :D
trpi ("suffering", in slovene trpi as well) da bi bila ("in order to be", in slovene "da bi bila"), voljena ("loved" in slovene "ljubljena"), "...is suffering in order to be loved" slovene: "...trpi da bi bila ljubljena..." the word you meant "patient has the same root, but in slovene it is "potrpezhljiv" - "is patient", or "potrpeti=to be patient... I think that this is the word that corresponds with "tarpeliv".
Hmm, this one is a tricky one. For suffering we say : strada, we also have potarpi = 'be patient, and 'tarpeliv' is simply patient. If we say : 'po-tarpeliv' = more patient, usually in Bulgarian if you want to say 'more' something, you use po- and then the word : examples- po-barzo = 'faster', po-rano = 'earlier', po-goljam/golyam/goliam = 'bigger' (goliam is translited like this- all 3 are correct, same goes for translitting in russian- because we have a letter that is combination of i+a, or something like ya, ja- ahhh, of course, better way to describe it- like 'Ya soshla s uma' ;) the 'Ya' is that letter, Russians have it too, it's the last letter of the alphabet :D )
countinue with the translation: da bi bila we have that in Bulgarian = 'in order to be' for female ;)
obichana or you can also say ljubena for 'loved' ;)
So this would be: stradam da buga/bada obichana we wouldnt use 'da bi bila', it is for us more like talking about someone else, if I was talking about myself, then it would be : da bih bila = 'in order for me' in female form, 'da bi bila' - 'in order for her'- something like that. For us 'buda/bada' ('that' vowel again' = 'to be' parvo lice, edinstveno chislo (remember- singular, 1st 'face' = az) in female form.
and "gora" is not "forrest". Gora is mountain (In slovene as well). Forrest is "gozd" in slovene or "shuma" in croatian-serbian.
Hmm, funny, gora for us is forest. planina is 'mountain' for us. and shuma for us means 'dry leaves'. So there is always 'shuma' in the 'gora' especially in the autumn, he he.
Same post-analysis will come for the Bosnian lyrics tomorrow, also I will translate those songs in Bulgarian as well,but now I gotta go back to work.
edit: just to add, by the way vazhi for us means 'to count' tova ne vazhi = 'this doesnt count'. A synonym would be: schita se or zachita se.
The way it is in the song though, hmm, sounds like it would be haide/hajde , could be translited either of those 2 ways, in bulgarian, meanning 'come on' maybe :dknow: synonym for 'haide' would be davai/davaj also could be translited either of those 2 ways. When you tell someone: davaj, davaj it means: c'mon, c'mon or 'lets go', or 'do it' same for haide, haide
Same for Russian, at least for 'davaj' - Yulia uses it all the time, since she is very impatient, ha ha ha, she's always telling someone: 'davaj, davaj'
Pred vsichki govorish, che ne stradash (we also have patish but it is not as used)
Che ne me obichash, baby
Sega, haide, pokazhi
Che mozhesh bez mene
Ha, ha I know what you're saying... I get inspired by slovene many times when I'm listening to something russian or even serbo-croatian (sometimes the words sound like one thing but mean something different). It's always best if you have it writen down.
OK, so you understood trudish, very good. I sometimes find hard to translate such words that have so many meanings but I guess you understand what that one is all about.
Looks like slovene and Bulgarain have much more similar expresion for "any more" vech - veche then serbo-croat = Vishe (but it similar none the less). Usualy it's the other way around.
About "Suffering": we have strada - stradash as well. Or nastrada but I think it's not a proper gramatical term (wait it is just found it in the dictionary!:D ), but trpeti is much more common.
You have potarpi as be patient? Hehe we have potrpi, and what you have tarpljiv we have potrpezhljiv.
That word that you used -patish - that's croatian for suffering, and also old-slovene.
da bi bila - yup I know what you're saying there... you would say this for 1. person (oseba/lice) = jaz (az for you), and not for 3. person (oseba/lice) =ona...
However this could work in Slovene and croatian, although the sentance is formulated like this: I'm not the one who is suffering TO BE LOVED. I'm not sure why this is so; this is some heavy grammatics already - have to check my old schoolbooks why this is so.
Gora... this is really weird. Well we say gora for a small mountain (like 300-600m), while big mountains would be called - planina, like yours. I can't imagine how forrest became a small mountain in the process :D. Dry leaves are shuma, but only in dialect and only in certain regions.
vazhi - Yup. To ne vazhi= this doesn't count. (We also have to ne velja ). but I know it has a lot of meanings this word.
hajde - haha You have that word? Thats funny. It's c'mon yes. This is croatian, we have ajde, but when we talk we always say hajde!. This is another popular one with me - I use it every day. Could that be vazhi in that song? Like a C'mon? It is possible, but let crni decide on that one. I'm not really sure.
Ohh. it's so late again. 2.30AM. And I have school tomorrow. :eek:
EDIT: I have to write this: ajde, ajde !!! or daj, daj!!! those are almost like theme words for me (I'm very impationed as well:D). So your comparison to russian davaj, davaj is our daj, daj... I always smile when Yulia says that. Sometimes when russians say this very fast it almost sounds like daj, daj, so you can see how we have "eaten the middle of this word. Otherwise daj means "give" to us.
coolasfcuk
27-05-2003, 15:40
Not too much time, so very fast reply:
he he, we have daj as well. For us it also means 'give' but we use it like you daj, daj it is basically a synonym, or shorter version for davaj, davaj.
Also, we have ajde :D, which is a synonym or shorter version for [/b]hajde[/b] See, I think bulgaria is in the best position for those terms, cause seems like we have all of them - from Slovene to Russian :gigi:
ajde sega- davaj, davaj- otivam da rabotja = 'c'mon now- lets go, lets go- I am going to work' :laugh:
edit: freddie I think all of us are impatient, ha ha, 'cause I am too, since I use those all the time: 'ajde', 'hajde', 'daj', and 'davaj', 'opa-opa' :D
Miroslav Satan (http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp?player_id=1341&hubName=BUF)
Ha, ha, ha... so Miro is a hockey player :D
Well he does kind of belong to the slavic thread, because he's chech but what has he have to do with the slavic languages?;)
But I admit it - those chechs and slovaks are real good in ice-hockey. As well as Russians and Ukrainians... To bad that is the one quality that slovenes didn't inherit after the other slavic nations:(
Cool - daj, daj does mean "give, give" in word for word translation but here we also use it as "ajde, ajde" ("c'mon, c'mon")
We also have "opa, opa", but I say "op, op" <---but this isn't really a word I think.
Miro's Slovak, he plays for the Slovak national teams at the Olympics and World Championships...
coolasfcuk
28-05-2003, 01:57
freddie, yes we can say 'op, op', once again as short version for 'opa, opa' ;)
how about this one, I am teaching bulgarian to my friend that is coming with me to bulgaria in 2.5 weeks, and yesterday I was explaining this word to him: hrupkam which is one of those words, I forgot what you call them, that originates from 'sounds' 'hrupkam' means 'to chew something that is crunchy, which makes noise like 'hrup, hrup, hrup'. Do you have that? I guess in english a similar case owuld be 'gulp', and the sound that comes out when you are 'guuuulping' something. ;)
dzhvakam is another one of those words for us- we use it to discribe someone smaking a gum, or say it was raining and your shoes got super wet, and when you wak they make that sound 'dzhvak, dzhvak' - we say: your shoues 'dzhvakat'.
freddie, dont worry, bulgaria sucks at hockey as well :gigi:
cool: Ha, ha of course he have them. We called those "sound" words "medmeti"
hrupkam - We say hrustam, we hear eating chips like hrust, hrust, hrust :D Come to think of it...it does sound more like hrup, hrup... You're closer to the actual sound ;)
On the packages of chips it also always says: "Hrustljavi chips".... so the one that makes that sound...
dzhvakam - Of course. zhvekam is our word. That is in slang. Proper grammar word would be zhvechim, but nobody EVER uses it.:bebebe:
Everybody likes zhvekam better. We like it so much that we even gave bubble gum a pet name zhvaka or zhvakacha. The proper gramatical term would be zhvechilni gumi but again it's never used in real language... Only zhvaka.
Yup and for that wet sound shoes as well. I wouldn't have thought of it if you didn't mention it first.
And looks like hockey skills avoided all the southern slavic people. Only western and eastern got the skills. That's not fair:bum:
russkayatatu
28-05-2003, 19:46
wow, thanks freddie for posting the lyrics :done:
I had fun listening to the songs and trying to understand what specific words mean, too, but I had the disadvantage of an English translation next to them :dead:
I was 98% positive Ne brini, ne brini za mene was a "don't [imperative] to/for me," but I was totally thrown by could it be, could it be, is it true. The same with all the other verses: pred svima govoris I thought could be "before something you say/said"; da nista ne patis - "nothing will something (please?)"; i da me ne volis babe "and you don't want me baby," but I couldn't figure out how the translation had anything to do with that - stupid me for even looking at it :ill:
Las is like losch' in Russian? Yeah, of course, duh, now that I think about it :lalala: I didn't get it before, though :bum:
Anyway, thanks again!
coolasfcuk
28-05-2003, 19:57
russkayatatu, wow! Great job! You surprise me, my congrats to you. For someone that is not Slavic- WOW- ...speachless, lol
So, did you only study Russian, or other Slavic languages as well?
By the way- did you pick the words out just listening to them, or reading, because if it is just listening- I am even more surprised :D
In Bulgarian: льжи = lazhi / luzhi 'that vowel' = lie :gigi:
freddie, we can also say hruskam, it is a synonym of hrupkam :gigi: I guess we use one or the other depending on what you're talking about- for chips as you said, we will use hrupkam, but for pretzels- we call those soleti- how about you?- we will say hruskavi soleti :D
edit: while we are on food, I just listened to this Russian kids song, from catroons when I was little, and in it they say:
'S dniom Rozhdenya pozdravit
I naverno ostavit
Mne v podarok piatsot Eskimo ' :gigi:
Translated in Bulgarian:
'Za rozhdeniya den shte me pozdravi
I naverno shte ostavi
Na men v podarak petstotin Eskimo'
English:
'Will wish me Happy Birthday
And probably give
Me as presant -500 Eskimo'
that made me remember- Eskimo is an awsome kind of ice-cream we used to have when I was little. So we call ice-cream: sladoled which comes from sladko = 'sweet' and led = ice, so literally 'sweet-ice' :D
russkayatatu
28-05-2003, 20:10
coolasfcuk, LoL, not that hard; there were a lot of words that were identical or nearly so in Russian, like pred, nishta (nichto), govorish, volis (volja), mozhesh', bez mene, etc. It was really unsatisfying, though, cause I felt like my instincts were telling me all the wrong things :(.
I wouldn't have paid any attention to the translation if they hadn't had "tell me, tell me" for kazhi, kazhi (like skazhi, and also clued me in that imperatives were probably formed the same way as in Russian, with the -i ending)...just because of that one line I spent way more time looking for stuff that wasn't in the original at all. Oh well, stupid me ;)
Er, and to answer your question: no, I just studied Russian, although I took a semester of Old Church Slavic ;) I want to learn other languages though. Right now Latvian is interesting cause it has so many borrowings from Russian (and English, too, of course) - like aptieka for drugstore - there are others but that's the only one I can think of right now :)
Edit: good grief, by reading :D I'm not THAT good. You have a distorted view of my talents, I think :)
Just by listening I caught "mozesh' bez mene" (pretty transparent) and "pokazhi" - I think that's it. Well, no, now that I think about it. I had the "ne brini, ne brini za mene," too, except I had no idea what "brini" meant. But for the verses (and the rest of the song) it was all a string of unintelligible words and then something like "pokazhi" would stand out :)
coolasfcuk
28-05-2003, 20:18
russkayatatu, Oh I think you're pretty good believe me ;) And if you think what you have achieved it's not too much- he he- I wanna know about your other special talents then :gigi:
And dont worry, I am Slavic, and I know Russian too, in addition to Bulgarian, and my instinct also tell me wrong things sometimes. It's all practice.
Sweet, maybe you should learn Bulgarian- he he- we also say аптека = apteka . And now that you already know Cyrillic and Russian so well, it will be like a piece of cake :heh: We have come to the conclusion in this thread that Bulgarian is the closest to Russian vocabulary-wise, but it has simpler grammer than Russian- no padezhyi :D
edit: yes, same for me, I cought exactly those too: bez mene andpokazhi but because they are 100% the same in bulgarian :laugh: so There was no other chance for me, but to at least understand those. Then, some words that are not exactly similar, like have different origin/roots, I can hear them, but have to be guessing on the meaning
russkayatatu
28-05-2003, 20:24
coolasfcuk, you're making me blush :gigi: This is no big deal, I swear; I don't even know what you're talking about.
Want to know something funny? I could never make up my mind what "kada se gubi sve" meant. Something reflexive with the "se"? But knowing that "gubi" was so close to "lips" in Russian kept me from seeing anything else in that line :gigi:
Have to go offline in 2 minutes (Internet cafe)!
coolasfcuk
28-05-2003, 20:32
"kada se gubi sve" meant. Something reflexive with the "se"? But knowing that "gubi" was so close to "lips" in Russian kept me from seeing anything else in that line
Oh, I totally understand. We have come upon few of those words so far here, in between the Slavic languages. Somewhere in the course of time the meaning of the word change so much, it's unbelievable :dknow:
To keep the translation going- for us lips is: ustni in plural, and ustna in singular. But the t is pretty much silent when you pronaunce it, so it could be translited as: usni :D It comes from: usta , which is 'mouth'
coolasfcuk
29-05-2003, 23:11
ahhh, ok, since we've been talking about Ya Tvoya Ne Pervaya, here it comes translited in BG:
Az Ne sam ti Parvata
Alo…
Alo…
Vizhdash li viatara?
E I kakvo?
Pogledni prez prozoreca..
E i kakvo?
A vchera beshe slance…
E i kakvo?
Zashto ti po vsiako vreme govorish edno I sashto?
A az sam telefonen sekretar.
Vzemi i se uspokoi,
Zlato e malchanieto,
Radio bezsannica
Stancia proshtanie.
Koj kogo shte poluchi
Shte reshat monetkite.
Koj na kogo shte ostane,
Nervite, tabletkite.
Zad noshtnite prozorci.
Izvikva, slomiava se,
Tova ne se schita, tova ne se schita.
Viarna sam, ne viarna sam
Tiha sam, pachalna sam
Az ne sam ti parvata
Ti si mi sluchainata.
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubov
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Zashto, zashto az sam s teb
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubov
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Zashto, zashto az sam s teb
Izliza, okazva se
Po-lesno e da ne se poznavame.
Koj ot nas shte se otkazhe
Vzeme i se uspokoi?
Devoicheta kato devoicheta
A sled tova- lunatichki
Nomera i strelichki
Shokoladki, kartinki *
Skrie se, razplache se
Kazhe, izplashi se
Tova ne se schita, tova ne se schita.
Viarna sam, ne viarna sam,
Tiha sam, pechalna sam
Az ne sam ti parvata,
ti si mi sluchainata.
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubov
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Zashto az sam s teb
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubov
Pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi,
Zashto az sam s teb
* fantiki in Russian are those shiny candy wrappers, that little kids, usually girls, :gigi: collect when they are little- but we dont really have special name for it- 'kartinki' is 'pictures', we can also call it 'stanioli' which is 'shiny wrapper, like folio :D
another note: 'avtootvetchik' in Russian is answering machine, while we say 'telefonen sekretar'. In Russian it comes from 'auto' and 'answer', in Bulgarian: 'telephone' and 'secretary', LoL, way too different. ;)
First of all welcome russkayatatu, and let me just say as Cool mentioned before - You are amazing!:eek: The fact you aren't slavic and was still able to catch some words in other slavic languages then russian - I bow to you;)
Cool: hruskavi soleti = Hrustljavi soleti. but I think that soleti is a brand name.
We had Eskimo ice cream as well, but I'm not sure if this was the same kind as yours - this one was made in croatia.
How do we say Ice-cream? Sladoled! hahaha.
Sladko - sweet, led - ice. Sweet-ice yes...we folowed the same logic.
Aptieka= we say apoteka. Similar.
lips: Ustnice and ustnica (The t is silent as well. I know what you mean).
I guess ours also come from usta which as well means "mouth" in slovene.
I'll post "Ya Tvoya Ne Pervaya" in slovene translation tomorrow. This one gave me a lot of trouble
:hmmm:
OK, let me just say that this was one of the hardest to translate... the psychadelic lyrics really trew me off track lots of times.
Here we go:
Jaz nisem tvoja prva
Halo...
Halo...
Vidish veter?
Pa kaj potem?
Poglej skozi okno...
Pa kaj potem?
A vcheraj je bilo sonce...
Pa kaj potem?
Zakaj ti ves chas govorish eno in isto?
ker sem telefonska tajnica*
Samo da se pomirim
Molk je zlato
Radijska nespechnost
Postaje bledijo
kdo bo dobil koga
Kovanec bo pokazal
kdo bo ostal komu
z zhivci, tabletami?
za nochnimi okni
bo zakrichala in se zlomila,
to ne shteje
to ne shteje
zvesta je, ni zvesta
tiha je, zhalostna
jaz nisem tvoja prva
ti si moja sluchajna
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubezen
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi zakaj sem jaz s teboj.
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubezen
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi zakaj sem jaz s teboj.
najbrzh bo kdo odklonil
preprosteje se je ne srechati
kdo od naju bo odklonil
samo da se pomiri?
dekleti kot dekleti
a zatem mesechnika
shtevilke in prilozhnosti
chokolade, ovitki.
skrila se bo in razjokala
povedala in se bala
to ne shteje
to ne shteje
zvesta je, ni zvesta
tiha je, zhalostna
jaz nisem tvoja prva
ti si moja sluchajna
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubezen
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi zakaj sem jaz s teboj.
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi mi ljubezen
pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi, pokazhi
pokazhi, pokazhi zakaj sem jaz s teboj.
*we have telefonska tajnica for answering mashine, "tajnica" means "secretary", so it's also like a "telephone secretary".
coolasfcuk
31-05-2003, 01:51
freddie why do you say this one was the hardest to translate? sorry, I didnt understand. The chorus on this one is pretty close in all 3 languages so far - but even more so in sounding, not only written I think ;)
btw- this post: Torej misliљ, da bi ti Jure moral vrniti kiљto. No jes sem za. Ponovimo naslednji teden
LoL, indeed, what language is that? I get some words, but some letters come on my screen distorted, like usually swedish extra characters show for example, really weird! LOL
Here is how I associate some of the words:
misliљ - think or thoughts?
da bi ti - you to be? you were?
vrniti - to return? returned?
No jes sem za - but I am 'for'. Or like ' I agree with it'
Ponovimo - something about new.
naslednji - ahhh, sounds so familiar, yet I cant figure out like what exactly, lol
And this is why:
misal in bullgarian is 'thought', so mislil thinking in masculine form
da bi ti we would say da beshe ti or da budesh ti for 'you to be'
varni for us is 'return'
No az sam za - we have this expression, and use it when someone agrees to something, like, 'yes, lets do it, I am for it'
novo for us is 'new'
:gigi:
What do you think she said freddie?
You're right about the chorus - it's really close, almost as close as NVNBNP, and it's close in all the languages. But in the verses there were some words in there that I didn't understand even after reading the english transcripts. 'Cause this is usualy how it is with me - I look at the russian lyrics and what I don't understand I look at the english transcript. And usualy after I see a sentance translated in english I "get" what the russian lyrics are talking about - so I usualy rely on englsih translation for guidance. Here there were some words that I didn't "get" even after reading the englsih translation; so in some sentances I had to translte it directly from englsih.
Let me give you an example: here you have a word zoloto and at first it's hard for me to figure it out what it means. but when I see the english translation: "gold", I say ofcourse!, we have a similar expression zlato and I know what russian lyrics are talking about. And the next word, molchanie, you also get the general idea what it means 'cause we have molk for silence and molchanje for "being quiet" or "remaining silent"...
But here there were some words that were completely foreign to me, like "Radio bessonitsa" or "fantiki" (that was before I get to read your translation of course;) ). I didn't get to relly on russian lyrics there, but had to translate directly from englsih, and you know how englsih translatons are often improvised. So I was afraid that I was geting further away from the actual meaning of the verses.
But the Chorus all made up for it I guess, hehe...there wasn't much to translate there - just an adoptation:D
About the post: hehehe:D. That is writen in Slovene, but it's heavily dialected (east-northern slovene dialect) - Slovenia is small but we have many dialects:D.
Before I tell you what it means I'll tell you a little story: I bet 24 beers (one box) with one of my friends that Tatu will win Eurovision. As you know by now they didn't and I owed him. So on wednesday I bought the beers for him and of course we drank it together. Another friend (the one who wrote the post) came along brought a bottle of Vodka Troyka and helped us with the beers. It was an interesting night of poker and clubbing I tell you;)
Anyway this other friend saw my post on the forum when I wondered if there was still any hope left for tatu win. And he wrote that reply. He wrote it in dialect slovene probably, because it was only a night after the boozing.
"Torej mislish, da bi ti Jure moral vrniti kishto. No jes sem za. Ponovimo naslednji teden"
First of all, the explanation why you see distorted characters on your screen. this is because we use special leters for sh-, ch- and zh- , basicly s, c and z with a mark on top). I guess you guys have that in cyrillic as well, but we had to adapt those sounds (-ch, -zh, -sh) to be writen in one character, with alphabet. And this is what we came up with:D Just goes to show you that alphabet isn't really adopted to suit slavic languages and sounds so we had to improvise. So if you wrote "pokazhi" in slovene it would be pokazi and the -z would have a mark on top - like this Ў. You probably got all those distorted letters because you don't have the right codepage to view this special letters.
Now the translation:
Torej - So
mislish - yup, you were correct. it's "think"
da bi ti - correct again
Jure - A name. Short for Jurij
moral - should
vrniti - correct again. It's "to return"
kishto - haha...this is because we are so close to the border with Austria. In german "Die Kiste" (or smtng like this), is "the box", and we changed this word ot Kishta - "the box". This is used only in dialect.
No jes sem za - spelled wrong by my friend - it's not "jez but "jaz"(I), - dialect again. But you caugt it 100% correct. It means - "I am for it". I'm impressed.;)
Ponovimo - It menas "repeat", to repeat is ponoviti. You are right - the root of the word comes from novo - "new"... and that's why we have po-nov-iti...like do it new..you know what I'm saying?
naslednji - it means "next"
teden - week
So the translation is as follows:
So you think that Jure should return the box to you? Well I'm for it. Let's repeat it next week.
I must say I'm very impressed by you. Those words were in dialect and you didn't even see all the letters correctly and you still maneged to understand almost all of it. Very good
:done:
*feels kinda jealous as reading since Russian courses haven't started yet in the university... then thinks about opening a thread on Spanic currents of speech, since there are almost as many as Slavic languages, there's a lot of spanish talkers in here and there's a sh*tload we can all learn in this forum :D*
Sorry for the intromission. You pumped my idea. And I can actually say I'm learning a lot from reading this thread, tho' I still hafta finish reading throught it (you guys TALK A LOT) and then I have to start understanding it. :P
As soon as the language courses start in the University, I'll try and jump into the thread because it's always better to learn by talking/writing.
russkayatatu
31-05-2003, 15:58
That's funny about 'Eskimo' - my Russian friend mentioned it to me once too, like she would think I'd never heard of it before, but I grew up with it in America as well :gigi:
For 'ice cream' Russian has 'morozhenoe', as maybe you already know - maybe it's from 'moroz' (frost); i.e., that which is frozen? If so, that's pretty cool; I'd never made that connection before :done:
By the way, other borrowings that Latvian has are 'mebele' (furniture) and 'reklame' (ads). Anything similar in other Slavic languages?
Also, back to Serbian: the volish' kinda intrigues me. It means 'love', I guess, looking at the translation you posted, freddie? The first thing I thought when I saw it was 'want', which was probably more influenced by other Indo-European languages rather than Russian - like French 'vouloir' and in German 'ich wolle' (you can say that, right? My German is rusty) - so, in other words, the root was 'vol', which turns up in Russian too with words like 'volja' ('will'). I'm wondering, is it really related, or was that wrong?
What is it in other Slavic languages? Something like 'xocesh'', or does it use a different root?
EDIT: by the way, that conversation about Russian swear words on the tatu forum was amusing. When I was just a few months into learning Russian I bought a book called 'Dictionary of Russian Slang' - and wow - a lot of swear expressions there :eek: Some of the translations I hadn't even seen in English :D But it was all good, because when they appeared with their Xui Voine shirts I remembered enough to know what it meant, and talking to other people who've taken Russian at my school, I'm the only one who would have :done:
Darje: He, he... you be jealous and start that spanish thread - romanic languages are one of the great enigmas in my life. Almost a complete blank there:dead:
I wonder if spanish and italian are also as similar as the slavic languages are. And excuse me for maybe sounding like an idiot - is spanish talked in South America very different from spanish talked in Spain?
And you're right about one thing - we do like to talk in here. But it's fun, fun, fun :coctail:
russkayatatu : Nice to see you posting in here regularly. You are sooo appreciated:)
So morozhenoe is ice-cream in russian. The way I look at in it definitely came from moroz ="frost". In Slovene we say Mraz for "frost" and this also means "cold" to us. I know that some other language use "cold" as a basic root for the word "ice-cream." If I remember correctly Chechs (or maybe Slovaks, or both) say Zmrzlina to "ice-cream", and that definitely comes from mraz -moroz. but this follows completely different logics in bulgarian and slovene = we both say sladoled (something like sweet-ice)
We also have reklama for ads. I think that latvians borrowed mebel from german (in german I think its mobel or something like that - umlaut on the "o"). We say pohishtvo - comes from the word hisha - "house"
Serbo-croatian "to love": Yes voliti means "to love" while volish means "you love"- 2. person. From where does this word come from? Honestly I have no idea. Maybe
Cool can answer you this, because I think Bulgarian has this word as well. In slovene it is more close to russian: "to love" is ljubezen while "you love" (2. person) is ljubish. We have volja for "will" as well, but we use different word for "love". Voliti in slovene means "to vote":laugh:
Edit: About huy voyne - we have a similar expression in slovene - "dick to whatever", just that our expression is kurc or kurac (it comes from the word that means "chicken" Kura, kurec is male chicken, a rooster - haha I know - we are weird)... so we would say: "kurac vojno"- dick to the war, or "kurac gleda vojno" - which would mean dick watches the war" in direct translation.
freddie made some mistakes I'll try to correct. Zmrzlina (at least as far as Czech are concerned) isn't ice cream as we know it, it's crushed ice with syrup poured over it.
I must admit I never heard male chicken called kurec (which would be how male form of chicken is made). We call male chicken petelin (rooster) and small chicken pishchanec (first -s and -c have Ў on them).
And "kurac gleda vojno" would be used more often. Or perhaps "kurac pa vojna" which can't be translated directly (pa means and in slang) but could be translated as "screw the war".
Originally posted by luxxi
freddie made some mistakes I'll try to correct. Zmrzlina (at least as far as Czech are concerned) isn't ice cream as we know it, it's crushed ice with syrup poured over it.
I must admit I never heard male chicken called kurec (which would be how male form of chicken is made). We call male chicken petelin (rooster) and small chicken pishchanec (first -s and -c have Ў on them).
And "kurac gleda vojno" would be used more often. Or perhaps "kurac pa vojna" which can't be translated directly (pa means and in slang) but could be translated as "screw the war".
OK, sorry about Zmrzlina I don't know about that one, but my cousain was once in Slovakia and she said Ice-cream is called "zmrzlina!:dknow:
"Kurec" is infact an obsolete expression for a rooster. "Petelin" is the word regularly used, but the vulgar word for "dick" comes from "kurec", which then turned into "kurac." I agree that "kurac gleda vojno" or "kurc gleda vojno" is used more often.
I'll ask my grandmother if she still uses the word "kurec" for rooster. It comes from the word "kura" which is "chicken."
coolasfcuk
01-06-2003, 02:36
Yes, morozhnoe comes from moroz ;)
In bulgarian we have: mraz also, which is 'cold' or 'frost'.
In Bulgarian commercial or add is reklama in singular and reklami in plural. freddie I dont who borrowed from who, because for 'furniture' we also say mebel in singular and mebeli in plural :D Looking at your words though, a synonym for furniture for us would be pokashnina which comes from kashta = 'house' :gigi:
Maybe Cool can answer you this, because I think Bulgarian has this word as well.
freddie :no: we dont have that word. For love we have, just like in Russian: ljubov = 'love' , we can say ljubish for 'you love' but it is not as used, it is becoming like an 'old' expression We have a synonym for 'love' and it is: obich = 'love'. From it comes obicham = 'to love' and obichash = you love' ;) ljubov as word is still very used though, just not 'ljubish', for example people say: moya ljubov when they are talking about the person they love, it means: 'my love' they would never say: moya obich :gigi:
We also have volja and i alsomeans 'will' for us.
To answer your question russkayatatu I am assuming volish originated from volja, but seems like only in serbo-croation, not in BG, SL, RUS , how it happened, I am not sure.
About 'Hui Voine' - Da, we have the exact same expression(s). Except, as I explained before, becuse we dont have padezhy we would say: 'Hui na voinata' The na is in the place of padezh, to show that the 'hui' is indeed for the 'war' :D
freddie our synonym for 'hui' is kur ! he he, and it is Just as used as hui. So we could say: 'Kur na vionata' and it would be 100% the same as saying 'Hui na voinata'
By the way, my friend that is coming with me to Bulgaria was looking in bookstores for Bulgarian dictionaries, cause he is learning you know, and he saw a 'Dictionary of Russian Obscenities' and of course he bought it for me :laugh: it has every posible swear word/phrase you can imagine - even some that Russians dont konw, since we flipped through it with my Russian friend when I got it. After seeing it, swearing in Russian works the same way as in Bulgarian, 80% of the stuff was identical to Bulgarian swear words/phrases Still, I believe the Balkans are the worst place in the world when it comes to swearing :eek: I am really not sure which of us is the worst, but I think Serbia might be on top :)
Your syninim is Kur ? That's pretty close to our kurc or kurac, and kurc vojno or kurc gleda vojno.
Kur na vionata' - funny but that sounds very macedonian to me. I think that they might be speaking in this "style"
So you don't have Voliti??? :ithink: Hmmm where did serbo-croatian language get this expression then? Pretty strange seeing as other languages have more similar words. I'd never have thought about it if russkayatatu hadn't pointed it out.
Does voliti mean anything at all to you?
coolasfcuk
01-06-2003, 02:52
freddie, voliti reminds me of volja and that's about it :D
Macedonian style, ha ha, yes, about 100 years or so Macedonians spoke the same language as us - Bulgarian ;) - but because of obvious political reasons - Macedonian has changed some :gigi: Still very close though. Remember I said a while back - Macedonia is pretty new, and it is the closest language to Bulgarian - history shows why :D
Kur gleda voina for us also would be literally: 'dick is watching war' :laugh: but we wouldnt say that ;)
forgot to add this: russkayatatu WOW again about the 'eskimo' . You have that in USA as well? 'Podskazhi pozhailusta, gde ya mogu ego pokupit ?' :heh: To translate that: 'Please, tell me, where can I buy it ?' :gigi:
Macedonians ... yes interesting. I always wondered how those guys came to exist inside Yugoslavia. It looked like they just apeared out of thin air. Anywaay they are the only ones besides Slovenes that are somewhat different from the standard serbo-croatioan and bosnan that was the main language in Yugoslavia. :D
Kur gleda voina - Yes, exactly; in direct translation it would mean exactly this "dick is watching war". What can I say? it's an expression:D Like "Ya Soshla S Uma" - which he don't have...:D
I guess the serbo-croatian voliti is a regional speciality then;)
russkayatatu
01-06-2003, 18:19
coolasfcuk, where to buy an Eskimo? Pretty much any good supermarket, I would think. Have you really not been able to find it here? Strange, because I remember having them when I was little, and we're an all-American family :heh:
Hey, freddie, thanks for making me welcome - I don't know why I've never come in here before; this is one of my favorite games to play :) To answer your question, I think Spanish and Italian are VERY close - I studied French and Latin and I can guess a lot of Spanish and Italian (better than Serbian and Croatian, it seems - but again, only when I'm reading :D). I think Romance languages are much thicker than the Germanic, for example - although there are a lot of similar words throughout Indo-European, like lieben in German and liubit' in Russian (English seems to have changed the b to a v, but I'm almost positive it has the same origin).
So volish' means love? That's interesting because I have no idea how that happened, unless it originated from 'want'. My best guess is that it came from the Latin verb 'volo' (to wish, want, will, ordain), which also ended up as 'will' and 'vote' in modern Slavic while staying as 'want' in other branches. Those concepts aren't that dissimilar, really :gigi:. It's a little strange but I can believe that happened.
In fact I'd bet money volish' derived from volo, as did volja, vouloir, wollen, voliti, etc. I'm inclined to think it didn't come necessarily from volja, just because it seems funny for that word to give rise to anything else - I'll bet they're sisters rather than mother and daughter, in other words :D But that's just a guess.
coolasfcuk, YES, most of the Russian obscenities I found my friends also didn't know :) They were still fun to read, though :D :)
Bulgarian has no padezhi!! I heard that it has a very complicated aspect system, though - is that true? ;)
russkayatatu : Yes that "voliti" in serbo-croatian is really peculiar and I bet as well that it comes from "volja" - "will". But it's strange why we don't have it to, as all the languages from former Yugoslavia are even more similar than the other slavic languages. Instead our word is more close to bulgarian&russian. I'm begining to wonder if Serbo-croatian also don't have "ljubish - ljubiti" as a sinonim for "volish-voliti". I'm not sure about this. We better ask a native croatian speaker if we find one.
About italian and spanish: I'm sure that serbian and croatian are even closer then italian and spanish. They are basicly THE SAME language - in Slovenia we call the language serbo-croatian - I understand both and I can't see the difference between them instead of differences in some expressions... but it's almost like a difference in dialect rather then two different languages... Look at the begining of this thread, we discused it there. The same goes for Bosnian, but they have many turkish expressions, but it's basicly the same language as well. As I've said: the only two langauges from former Yugoslavia that are different are slovene and macedonian... but even them are very similar, there is no problem in understanding eachother (although some other former Yugoslavians don't WANT to understand slovene;) ).
Cool: So let's hear some of those infamous russian and bulgarian curse words... I wonder if we have anything similar. Those words are well known to last trough centuries and even different cultures :D
On a side note some interesting stuff.
"Voliti" in Croatian means "to love", in Slovene it means "to vote" (elections)
"Molim" in Croatian means "please and pardon" in Slovene it means "I'm praying".
Funny how same words have different meaning in different languages.
Originally posted by luxxi
On a side note some interesting stuff.
"Voliti" in Croatian means "to love", in Slovene it means "to vote" (elections)
"Molim" in Croatian means "please and pardon" in Slovene it means "I'm praying".
Funny how same words have different meaning in different languages.
I mentioned this above ;)
Also "please, pardon" is "prosim" too us. I seem to recal that Cool mentioned waaaay back that molim (or something similar) is also "praying" in bulgarian. Then again I can be wrong again :dknow:
russkayatatu
01-06-2003, 19:12
Yeah, I know that Serbian and Croatian are closer than Italian and Spanish. I meant I think Romance languages are close the way that Slavic languages are (like how Russian and Croatian, for example) - but no, I didn't mean that they're practically the same language; sorry if that was confusing.
I just looked at an online Serbo-Croatian dictionary and got this entry for love:
love = ljubav, ljubiti, voleti, voljeti
freddie, does that help? :)
Edit: 'molit'sia' is to pray in Russian, if I remember right. And to pardon is 'prostit''. So probably Bulgarian is similar?
Haha...thanks I knew they must have ljubav-ljubiti as well. But to be honest I have never heard a croatian or serbian person use thi word. They always use "voleti, voljeti" - hehe I don't know that that is the way it's spelled I, because I can't write serbo-croatian at all - I just take it as I hear it. I did learn it for a year, but that was way back in 91 when we were still Yugoslavia.
I see what you mean now with spanish and italian. I missunderstood before.:gigi:
coolasfcuk
01-06-2003, 19:34
:yes: molja in bulgarian means ' pray' but also it means 'I beg your pardon', also it is used for 'please' - like this: 'Molja te kazhi mi' = 'please, tell me' :gigi: so see, 'molja' has all kinds of use in bulgarian. molitva is a 'prayer'. molja se = 'to pray' (in 1st 'chislo' singular, meaning I am praying'
Way back I also said: prosya for us means 'to beg', but more like, a person on the street beging for money, we call such person, begger, prosyak.
russkayatatu, of course you're welcome - this is our fav. playground also ;)
And by the way- what do you mean by 'aspect system'? Sorry, I am not too familiar with the grammar terms in English - explain and I will try to answer ya.
freddie the 'bad' words are coming tonight ;) and lots of them, so preapre, he he
And on the Spanish-Italian question- how about this- I find it fascinating why Romanian is what it is. You know, the second closest language to Latin after Italian, and they are surrounded by us, Slavic people :dknow: So Romanian is closer to Italian even more than Spanish if I recall correctly :gigi:
freddie, maybe in Serbo-Croation ljubav /ljubiti is like ljubov/lubish in Bulgarian ;). remember, we have those words, but they arent used as a verb, mainly as a noun, for the verb we use the synonym obicham, which would correspond to the Serbo-Croatian voliti :gigi: makes sense?
russkayatatu
01-06-2003, 19:47
So, aspect: like in Russian we have two or more forms for every verb, for example zabyvat' and zabyt' (to forget), or pomnit' and vspomnit' (to remember), or pokupat' and kupit' (to buy)...it's like perfective and imperfective. One denotes a one-time, finished, completed action, and the other an ongoing, repetitive action, although those are just the general rules and there are a lot of subtleties. In general it's very hard for native English speakers to know which verb - which aspect - to use in all situations: we have problems with it the way Russian speakers have problems with articles in English (where they need them and which ones) :gigi:
So, is Bulgarian very complicated? Molja te kazhi mi (see, I'm trying to learn :) )
About Romanian, I heard that it is the closest to Latin of all the Romance languages, and I also have no idea how that came about. Were they under the eastern Roman empire? But they mostly spoke Greek, I thought...
Probably you all already know, but in Russian we say 'prostite' sometimes instead of 'izvinite' - excuse me, pardon me, like if you bump into someone. Or if you want something: Prostite, vy ne skazhite...which can be translated as 'please tell me,' I think. Right?
we do use ljubiti, but not nearly common as voljeti/voliti. ja te ljubim = ja te volim
actually, true meaning for ljubiti is to kiss but you can use it to express love also...
as for molim/moliti, the use is exactly the same as in bulgarian.
Cool: molitva and all that stuff are exactlly the same in our langauges, as far as "praying" is concearn but we've disscused that before. "'Molja te kazhi mi' for us would be "prosim te povej mi", prosim derived from "prositi" (to ask, pardon, please...). Russkayatatu said in in russian is "izviniti"- we don't have that one, but the serbo-croatian have this word.
Ljubav /ljubiti like ljubov/lubish - I don't think so; ljubav is "love" ljubiti is "to love", while I think that your lubish is "you love." I see Crni already answered this one so...
Russkayatatu: I have a theory about Romania. Seeing as they are closely related to italians and what separates them are slavic counties of former Yugoslavia, I belive that they lived together as tribes "lahi" (sorry I can't recal the english expression) in the regions where Slovenia and Croatia are today and were forced to split and go in two directions when the first slavic people came more then a thousand years ago. This is pure speculation - I don't the actual historic facts
Two forms of a verb: I think this is called "dokonchni" and "nedokonchni" verb (glagol). Dokonchni means "finnished verb": when the action that was happening in the verb is already finnnished, and "nedokonchni" means "unfinished" verb. Am I thinking of the right thing? That's what I've gathered from your example and explanation.
btw: In slovene:
zabyvat' and zabyt' = pozabiti is "to forget" (finished), "pozabljati" - (unfinished)
pomnit' and vspomnit' - "pomniti", "zapomniti", "spomniti" (to remember) - no unfinished verb...
pokupat' and kupit - kupiti (to buy) and kupovati (unfinnished)
coolasfcuk
02-06-2003, 04:47
russkayatatu I understand what you are saying now :gigi: Never knew what those things are called gramatically, but yes, like all slavic languages we also have them.Exmaples:
'to foget' = zabravya..ummm, cant think of the other words for this one, lol, yes, I have trouble remembering things when I am tired :dead:
'to remember' = pomnya, spomnya, zapomnya, napomnya - the last one means more like 'to remind'
'to buy' = kupya, pokupya, zakupya, nakupya
See sometimes we have even more than 2 or 3, and they are exactly what you described -some are for one-time finished actions, and some are on-going, but as you said, it is a bit more complicated than that- 'kupya' is just buy, while 'zakupya' is somethig..ahhh, they are hard to explain in English since you dont have them :gigi: I dont even think about it, since it's my native language, and I know which one is for what situation ;)
Now that you mentioned articles... OK, let me try to explain it this way..I have read that Bulgarian is more 'Analytical' language, while all the other slavic languages are not - meaning, we lost our padezhy long long time ago, and all the other slavic languages kept them. That means that - they need a certain padezh for the certain situation, while for Bulgarian, the person needs to 'analyze' the sentanse to know whats going on. I am not even 100% sure if I am explaining this correct, you are linguisitc person, probably you know it better than me...so please share. But I think English is very analytical lanaguage - it doesnt deferentiate between 'feminine' and 'masculine', doesnt have verbal tenses (glagolni skloneniya or sprezheniya - I am confused which one means what exactly), abosolutely no padezhy. Bulgarian has all the other features of the slavic languages, but padezhy, so it is not quite analytical as english.And for bulgarian, the articles are added at the ends of the words - I think I explained this once already - it is called - 'article with the objective case' [кратък член(bg) = краткий член (ru)] and 'article with the nominative case' [пълен член (bg) = полный член(ru)] The first one for us is equal to 'a' in English and the second case is equal to 'the'. So if I said: 'стена' = 'stena' = a wall, but if I said: 'стената'= 'stenata' = the wall. Or wait, now I am getting confused myself - I think what I just explained with the 'wall' example might actually be, what we call 'a definite and indefinite article' [определителен и неопределителен член(bg) = определенный и неопределенный член(ru)]. Ahhh, I am such an idiot, I need grammer refreshment, ha ha, I will do that and come clarify things, sorry if I confused you more, I confused myself !
To finish this, I will comment on the last thing you said -
in Bulgarian, just as in russin we have the same synonym (told ya, Bg and Ru are very similar ;) ), here's what I mean:
извинете = izvinete = excuse me, pardon me is the same as: простете = prostete = excuse me, pardon me. ;) We would say the same thing if you bump into someone, either one of the two would work 'izvinete' or 'prostete' :gigi:
'Prostite, vyi mne skazhite' is in Russian in Bulgarian we would say: Prostete, vie mi kazhete- it doesnt sound very right though :gigi: maybe because it is missing може = mozhe = 'can, is it possible' [kinda like можно =mozhno in Russian], which would make the more pleasant sentanse like this: 'prostete, mozhe li da mi kazhete...' = 'excuse me, can you tell me...'
The Russian one sounds a little weird to me also, maybe in certain situation it could be used, but 'Pozhailysta, vyi mne skazhite' sounds better' or maybe if you add 'mozhno' in it...
russkayatatu
02-06-2003, 18:50
coolasfcuk, I am a little confused ;) But I think you do mean definite and indefinite articles? Because that's the difference between 'the' and 'a'. So, Bulgarian DOES have articles, you just add them on to the end of the noun. Does that make it easier speaking English, then? Because in Russian, you know, you don't have any articles and have to guess whether you need an 'a' or a 'the' or nothing in front of the noun in an English translation. So you could translate 'Xui Voine' as either 'Fcuk the War' or 'Fcuk War,' and you have to think about which way is better.
That's interesting what you said about more 'analytical' languages. I've never thought about it that way, or read that, but maybe...I know that when you lose things like cases word order becomes more important because it's one of the main 'clues' as to what words mean in the sentence. So English word order is pretty strict, while Russian is freer, and if you go back to Latin, Latin word order is practically nonexistant - you can put whatever you want wherever and it can still be read only one way :gigi:
freddie, yes, that's probably what they're called :D In Russian 'aspect' is vid, and verbs are either 'sovershennyi vid' or 'nesovershennyi vid', so I gather Slovene has the same thing. It's funny because, yes, unless they've studied it, Russians never think about aspect; they don't even realize which one is which, and if you tell them 'brat'' is imperfective and 'vzjat'' is perfective they will look at you as if you're from another planet (heh, not something I've done, btw) :) :D
Russian has a lot more 'pairs' than I mentioned. I've seen lists and lists for ones with roots like 'pomnit'', let me see if I can remember:
like vspomnit'/vspominat'
napomnit'/napominat' (also means 'to remind', like in Bulg.)
zapomnit'/I'm not sure if there's an nesovershennyi vid for this one; it seems to go against the meaning of the word, which is - well, to remember - to remember one thing, like a name or a number, which either you remember or you don't, so how can it be nesov.?
Basically for a lot of words Russian has a lot of prefixes you can add, like ot-, u-, za-, na-, pod- (there are more) and form more perf./impf. pairs. They don't always come in pairs, like if the meaning of the verb is somehow inherently repetitive or one-time or something, but usually they do. Is all that true for Bulgarian (or Slovene)?
freddie, Russian has 'pozabyt'' too, as well as 'zabyt''; both are sovershennyi vid. It sounds like from your example that you form perf./impf. kind of the same way, with pozabiti and "pozabljati" you have the vowel change from an i to a ja, which is common in Russian too. A lot of impf. verbs are conjugated in Russian with 1st person -aiu, 2nd person -aesh', and 3rd person plural -aiut, as in ja zabyvaiu, ty zabyvaesh', oni zabyvaiut. And perf. is often conjugated with 1st person -u, 2nd person -ish', 3rd person plural -jat, like ja pomniu, ty pomnish', oni pomnjat. Uh, that's right, isn't it? I need a refresher too; it's been a while since I went over this!
In general for us adding a prefix means perfective: e.g., pomnit' (impf.) + prefix = vspomnit' (perf.) And if you want to have the same meaning as the prefixed verb but show that it's done many times or something, you often change the ending - getting vspominat' - with the a instead of the i and the different conjugation. Pokupat' is an exception, because usually the prefix 'po' means perfective; it's a very common prefix and means something like 'to start': so you can have liubit' and poliubit', the second meaning 'to start to love.'
Sorry, this is wayyyyyy too long, but I was just wondering if other Slavic languages are different or operate in basically the same way ;)
coolasfcuk, yeah, the Russian I quoted (prostite, vy ne skazhite) was a little weird...what about, prostite, vy ne skayhite mne? Or, prostite, vy ne mozhete mne skazat'? But maybe poyhaluista is better, I dunno.
EDIT: hey, where are those Russian and Bulgarian obscenities? I was looking forward to those :p :coctail:
coolasfcuk
02-06-2003, 20:18
russkayatatu, yeah, I havent checked that, but I think definate and indefinate is what I meant, LoL. Anyway, it is still very confusing for bulgarian when to use 'a' and when 'the' or when not to use any, even though we have a similar thing ;) Maybe because ours operates totally differeantly :gigi:
The 'kratak chlen' and 'palen chlen' are something I think only we have (bulgarian) It is a bit more complicated to explain - I will attempt that a little later.
About the prefixes- :yes: we have all the same ones- po, na, nad, s, ot, u, za, pod, ect. They finction the exact same as in Russian. And we also have the pairs, most the time, unless like you said the verb is a weird one. [Oh my, I have to admit- you are making me think hard about grammar, ha ha ha, and it's hard, since like you said- I just know how it is, I didnt have to learn it like you did- so I am having the 'another planet' look in my eyes :gigi: )
'kupia' and then with prefix 'pokupia' works just as in Russian for example. :)
lubja - polubja - same as in Russian or with our synonym: obicham - zaobicham - where the second one is to start loving someone ;)
pomnya - spomnya with prefix- same as in Russian. And to make it done but with the prefix we would say: 'spomnih'
prostite, vy ne mozhete mne skazat'? yeah, that sounds good :)
And sorry about the 'bad' words, I got cought up with work, and then forgot !! :o It is coming tonight when I get home from work - I promise this time. :cool:
Ufff, we're getting heavy into grammar here. I never was any good at grammar in school, so I hope I can help a bit. It's more fun to compare here then in school anyway:p
First the definite and indefinite articles. Simple: We don't have them! That's why I still get confused in english with "a" and "the" - just look at some of my posts:D. But I guess if you're talking in slovene you know if you are talking about a general thing or something specific; it just comes from the intonation or something...I can't explain :dknow:
The prefixes: we also have most of them: -po, -na, -nad, -s, -za, -pod, -od (pronounced -ot), v (pronounced -u)
And they come in pairs as well: kupiti-pokupiti, ljubiti-zaljubiti, pomniti has a lot of them (we have basicly everything that others have except -napomnit; we say spomnit in stead of napomnit)...
freddie, Russian has 'pozabyt'' too, as well as 'zabyt''; both are sovershennyi vid. It sounds like from your example that you form perf./impf. kind of the same way, with pozabiti and "pozabljati" you have the vowel change from an i to a ja, which is common in Russian too. A lot of impf. verbs are conjugated in Russian with 1st person -aiu, 2nd person -aesh', and 3rd person plural -aiut, as in ja zabyvaiu, ty zabyvaesh', oni zabyvaiut. And perf. is often conjugated with 1st person -u, 2nd person -ish', 3rd person plural -jat, like ja pomniu, ty pomnish', oni pomnjat. Uh, that's right, isn't it? I need a refresher too; it's been a while since I went over this!
Huh let me see how we would have this... So you said in russian it's 1.zabyuaiu, 2. zabyvaesh, 3. zabivayut.... we would say 1.jaz pozabim 2. ti pozabish, 3. on pozabi... the only one that is foreign to me is the last one -ayut... this ending has dissapeared with southern slavic languages while the first to -aiu and -aesh seem very similar to me bacause they are the same as serbo-croation.
And imperfect "pomniu": 1. ja pomniu, 2. ty pomnish', 3. oni pomnjat... 1. jaz pomnim, 2. ti pomnish, 3. on pomni... as you see we have successfully removed any conjugations that end with a -t.
In general for us adding a prefix means perfective: e.g., pomnit' (impf.) + prefix = vspomnit' (perf.) And if you want to have the same meaning as the prefixed verb but show that it's done many times or something, you often change the ending - getting vspominat' - with the a instead of the i and the different conjugation. Pokupat' is an exception, because usually the prefix 'po' means perfective; it's a very common prefix and means something like 'to start': so you can have liubit' and poliubit', the second meaning 'to start to love.'
Yes all that you said there is correct. You add a prefix to change from imperfect to perfect (in our case pomniti - spomniti)... and if you want to say something was done many times in our case you would say "spominjati"...
pokupat...we would say "pokupiti" -I forgot about that one last time (imperf: "kupovati") - or kupiti, but never "pokupat"
Instead of liubit-poliubit we have ljubit-zaljubit(to fall in love) - so different prefix than russians... We also have "poljubit" but this means "to kiss".
Can't wait for those swear words :D
coolasfcuk
03-06-2003, 04:13
(we have basicly everything that others have except -napomnit; we say spomnit in stead of napomnit)...
hmm, freddie we also have spomnya in addition to napomnya. 'spomnya' is to 'remember, and 'napomnya' is to 'remind'. ;) [we would say: sponmi si!! = 'remember !!! and napomni mi !! = 'remind me !!']
1.zabyuaiu, 2. zabyvaesh, 3. zabivayut.... we would say 1.jaz pozabim 2. ti pozabish, 3. on pozabi...
freddie really? pozabim sounds 'complete' to me, especially 'on pozabi'. And zabyvaiu is really 'unfinished' or 'continious' action
And so here it is in Bulgarian(in bold are the examples russkayatatu gave): Singular - 1.Az zabravyam 2. Ti zabravyash 3. Toi/Tia/To zabravya. Plural- 1.Nie zabravyame 2.Vie zabraviate 3. Te zabravyat
If we said in Bulgarian: Singular: 1.Az pozabravyam 2.Ti pozabravyash 3. Toi/Tia/To pozabravya Plural: 1.Nie pozabravyame 2.Vie pozabravyate 3. Te pozabravyat
Now that is a different case ;) I am so confused in grammar right now, that I am not sure what to call 'perfect' and what 'imperfect' :laugh: but I am sure russkayatatu can tell, since all the words, and prefixes are so close - I was never that good in grammar either, and it is harder for me, since I live in USA now, and speak a lot more English compared to Bulgarian :(
And imperfect "pomniu": 1. ja pomniu, 2. ty pomnish', 3. oni pomnjat... 1. jaz pomnim, 2. ti pomnish, 3. on pomni... as you see we have successfully removed any conjugations that end with a -t.
And Bulgarian again: Singular - 1. Az pomnya 2. Ti pomnish 3.Toi/Tia/To pomni Plural: 1.Nie pomnim 2. Vie momnite 3.Te pomnyat [note for russkayatatu - the last one 'pomnyat' is like this is cyrillic помнят so exactly the same as Russian, you just translited the 'ya' as 'ja' ;) but I try to stick to always transliting я as 'ya']
little note to freddie - oni is they in Russian, and I see you wrote the on 'words' in Slovene, which I am pretty sure is 'he' ;) (I am also sure because I look at the word - both yours and ours are pomni for he/she/it :gigi: )
Just checked with my mom on the 'verb' subject - and she reminded me - there is no infinitive form of the verb in Bulgarian, like it is in Russian and Slovene. :gigi: (One other more 'analytical' part of the language) My mom said, to translate the 'infinitive' of Russian words, Bulgarians use the Singular, First 'lice', meaning the verb for 'I'(eng) = "Ya" (ru) = "Az"(bg) So for example you see, for the Russian infinitive of zabyivat' - Bulgarians would translate it as zabravyam, which you can see is the Singular, first form 'Az zabravyam' or 'I forget' . So 'zabyvat' (ru) = 'zabravyam' (bg) is the ongoing/unfinished action or 'nesovershenyi vid'(ru) = 'nesavershen vid'(bg), while 'zabyt' (ru) = 'zabravya' is the 'complete' or 'sovershennyi vid'(ru) = 'savarshen vid' (bg). You see the difference between sov. and nesov. in BG is very subtle for that particular word, it is a simple m at the end of one of the words.
I knew it was something like that - just not 100% sure, and no wonder I was thinking so much harder over those 'verbs' Ha ha, told ya, it's hard describing the grammar of your own language, since it comes intuitivly to ya.
But while I am still on the subject - to make it completely clear that we do have 'perfect' and 'imperfect' verbs, here is one more example, I saw the words while flipping through the 'obscenities' book, so it is in a way introduction to my next post with 'bad words' :laugh:
The word is 'fart', so in Russian it is: 'пердеть' = 'perdet' ' for the 'continuous' and 'перднуть' ' = 'perdnut' for the other one (sorry, told ya, I got confused which one is perfect which one is imperfect )
In Bulgarian they are: 'пърдя' = 'pardya'/'purdya' (this is our ъ vowel ) for the 'continuous' action and: 'пръдна' = 'pradna'/'prudna' for the other one. :gigi:
coolasfcuk
03-06-2003, 05:19
K, let me start, I have a feeling this will be an ongoing process, he he...
So we all know, the famous 'Хуй' = 'Hui' word. I said before, it is 100% same in Bulgarian, or 'Хуй'.
So here is some examples from my ;Obscenities' book:
1. Он на нее хуй точит = 'On na neyo hui tochit' which is translated like this: 'He's got the hots for her'. But really, literally translated it means: He is 'sharpening' his d*ck for her, or something like that - 'tochit' means 'sharpen, whet, strop'.
Now, I have heard, not too often, but still have heard people in Bulgaria use 'tocha si huia'= 'sharpening my d*ck', so the phrase from the book in Bulgarian would be: 'Той за нея си точи хуя' = 'Toi za neya si tochi huia' or 'Toi si tochi huia za neya' word order doesnt really matter :)
2. У него хуй медом намазан = U nego hui miodom namazan, which is translated as: 'He's a real Don Juan' :laugh: When literally it means: 'His d*ck is 'lubricated' with honey'.
Ha ha, well, I have never heard this expression in Bulgarian, or at least dont remember hearing it, but it would be something like this: 'Хуя му е намазан с мед' = 'Huia mu e namazan s med' or 'Неговия хуй е намазан с мед' = 'Negoviya hui e namazan s med'.
By the way - here is one of those verbs - 'mazha' in Bulgarian is continuous or nesovershenyi vid, while 'namazha' is sovershenyi vid :gigi:
3. Хуй ты ему объяснишь = Hui ty emu obyasnish', which is translated as: 'You can't explain a f*cking thing to him'. Literally it is: 'D*ck you explain to him'
In Bulgarian this would be: 'Хуй ще му обясниш' = 'Hui shte mu obyasnish', which is very likely to be used :gigi:
4. Иди на хуй = Idi na hui, which is translated as: 'F*ck you'. Literally: ' Go on d*ck'. I have heard this Russian one a lot, so I can say it is pretty used, same for: 'Poshol na hui' which is in a way the sovershenyi vid, while the first one is the nesovershenyi vid.
In Bulgarian, also used: 'Иди на хуй' = 'Idi na hui', or 'Varvi na hui', or 'Sedni mi na huia' literally meaning 'Sit on my d*ck'
5. Хуй тебе в зубы = 'Hui tebe v zubyi', which is translated as:'F*ck you''. Literally meaning: 'D*ick in your teeth' :laugh:
In bulgarian it is: 'Хуй в зъбите ти' = 'Hui v zabite ti'
note: In Bulgarian, as I said before Хуй(Hui) = Кур(Kur). So every one of those 'hui' you can substitute with 'kur' and nothing will change :gigi:
OK. I am really tired now, hope this is enough for start. And I havent even covered half of what they have given for 'hui', not even 1/3 of it !!! ha ha, more to come. But you can see how similarly Russ. and Bulgarians form phrases with the 'bad' words.
russkayatatu
03-06-2003, 21:40
uh, only have a few minutes, but just wanted to say -
SORRY for all the heavy-duty grammar, guys. I don't know how I got started on that :gigi:
freddie, Russian has the prefix za- too, which usually means 'to start' (not in 'zapomnit'' though, btw I changed the translation on that above), but it doesn't work for liubit' - we have vliubit'sia (to fall in love) and poliubit' (to start to love). But za-, I don't know, 'on zarabotal' for he started to work? Anyway, for a lot of verbs it works like that.
Haha, I've heard some of those :done: (not the sharpening one or the honey one though :D). Coolasfcuk, what about 'fig'? Does Bulgarian have that? Cause in Russian you can say things like: 'nu tebya na fig' and 'fig vam' - which I guess are sort of like go to hell and fcuk off - and are similar to the ones with xui (except if I'm not wrong they're not quite as obscene? The tebya na fig one anyway).
WOW, by the way, Russian and Bulgarian really do seem similar.
I'll come back soon and try to clean up the rest of the grammar mess I've started, I promise ;)
coolasfcuk
03-06-2003, 22:45
russkayatatu, dont ya worry about the grammar stuff, it is all good :gigi: This way I refresh my Bulgarian, and I desperately needed it, he he
Russian has the prefix za- too, which usually means 'to start' (not in 'zapomnit'' though, btw I changed the translation on that above), but it doesn't work for liubit' - we have vliubit'sia (to fall in love) and poliubit' (to start to love). But za-, I don't know, 'on zarabotal' for he started to work? Anyway, for a lot of verbs it works like that.
Yes, Bulgarian has the 'za' prefix also. And like you said, it is usually associated with 'to start'. In bulgarian it is 'zapomnya'. Your example 'zapomnit' is exactly the same for us - it is not exactly 'to start remembering' but to 'zapomnya ime' is 'to remember a name' - like a one time deal. ;)
Continuing with your examples: In Bulgarian: vliubya se = 'tp fall in love', and poliubya = 'to start to love'. To explain a little - the first example 'vliubya se' is used all the time to describe when you fall in love, but 'poliubia' is one of those 'getting old' words, that are used but rarely, it is actually a synonym for 'zaliubya'. See, once again, Bulgarian has the Russian version and the Slovene ones :gigi: )
Next example: 'zarabotal' in Bulgarian is zarabotil. Coming from 'rabotya' = 'to work'. 'zarabotil' for us it also means to start working, but also it could mean something that you have 'made', does it make sense, like: 'zarabotila sam mnogo pari' = 'I have made lots of money' - but I think this is used in slang ;)
About the swearing - he he, russkaya, 'podazhdi' :D I have just started typing stuff up, so I only sticked to 'hui', 'fig' was coming next, with 'ebat'. But to answer your question - the word 'fig' doesnt exist in the Bulgarian language. But you are right, the 'fig' ones are not as obscene as 'hui' ones.
so you can say: 'Idi na fig' or 'poshol na fig', but if you wanna be bad you say: 'Idi na hui' or 'poshol na hui' :gigi:
I am gonna continue with more 'bad words' when I get a chance - work is killing me lately, so much to be finished before I take off for Europe for 2 months :dead:
WOW, by the way, Russian and Bulgarian really do seem similar.
Told ya, you should trust me. You can learn another language without too much effort, especially after what I've seen so for ;) Where would you use it - he he - that's a totally different thing, since there are about only 8 million Bulgarians, or something like that
umm...being an asian ...i'm not quite sure if polish is slavic...does anyone know? and if u know, how does the name 'Czeslaw' sound to u? i'm, uh, just curious...
hmm, freddie we also have spomnya in addition to napomnya. 'spomnya' is to 'remember, and 'napomnya' is to 'remind'. [we would say: sponmi si!! = 'remember !!! and napomni mi !! = 'remind me !!']
We have "spomni se" - "remember" and "spomni me" or "opomni me" for remind me.
Interesting ha?
freddie really? pozabim sounds 'complete' to me, especially 'on pozabi'. And zabyvaiu is really 'unfinished' or 'continious' action
And so here it is in Bulgarian(in bold are the examples russkayatatu gave): Singular - 1.Az zabravyam 2. Ti zabravyash 3. Toi/Tia/To zabravya. Plural- 1.Nie zabravyame 2.Vie zabraviate 3. Te zabravyat
Ha? Heren't we talking about the perf. here? Guess I've got confused. Yes pozabim Is "dovrshni" (just remembered we call them dovrshni and nedovrshni glagol), while nedovrshni would be pozabljam.
So once again, conjugation for "pozabljam"
1. jaz pozabljam
2. ti pozabljash
3. on pozablja
little note to freddie - oni is they in Russian, and I see you wrote the on 'words' in Slovene, which I am pretty sure is 'he' (I am also sure because I look at the word - both yours and ours are pomni for he/she/it )
OK,sorry I've fcuked up on the on- oni part...
So let's change that to plural: Sng: on pomni, Plu: oni pomnijo
**The word is 'fart', so in Russian it is: 'пердеть' = 'perdet' ' for the 'continuous' and 'перднуть' ' = 'perdnut' for the other one (sorry, told ya, I got confused which one is perfect which one is imperfect )**
Yup, we have that one too: prdet-prdnit...(nedovrshni and dovrshni)
Hehe...I love those curse words... my favourite is "U nego hui miodom namazan"... :D
Infact I like it so much, that I'm gona translate it in Slovene and start using it myself: "Njegov kurc je z medom namazan":laugh:
Well we also have a lot of "dick" ones, but the expressions are pretty different...
But there are some similarities:
"Idi na hui" - We have this one. Kurc (or kurac) is slovene for dick, and for some reason we don't say "on my" dick, but "in my" dick, so our expression looks like this: "Idi v (pronounced u) kurac"
Hui ty emu obyasnish'= "kurc mu lahko objasnish", this is a pretty common one...
freddie, Russian has the prefix za- too, which usually means 'to start' (not in 'zapomnit'' though, btw I changed the translation on that above), but it doesn't work for liubit' - we have vliubit'sia (to fall in love) and poliubit' (to start to love). But za-, I don't know, 'on zarabotal' for he started to work? Anyway, for a lot of verbs it works like that.
Yeah, it's almost like a rule that the ones begining with -za usualy mean to start something. I guess that's where we got the logic to say zaljubiti - to fall in love...
umm...being an asian ...i'm not quite sure if polish is slavic...does anyone know? and if u know, how does the name 'Czeslaw' sound to u? i'm, uh, just curious...
Yes indeed Polish is slavic. but it is a language that I understand the least of all the slavic ones. Maybe because of their pronounciations.
Czeslaw'- how does it sound? Hmmm...slavic I guess. This would probably be the polish version - they have the -cz together. We would say Cheslav.
thanks, freddie. have u ever heard of this name before? is it a common name?? old-fashioned??
Originally posted by uhaku
thanks, freddie. have u ever heard of this name before? is it a common name?? old-fashioned??
Yeah I've heard it. I can say it's definitely not slovene, but it sounds familiar to me. It's slavic for sure. I don't belive it's oldfashioned. The syllable's are nothing special -che and -slav... we have both but just not in that combination.
If I can make a guess I'd say it's polish. But that's strictly layman's opinion.
Originally posted by uhaku
thanks, freddie. have u ever heard of this name before? is it a common name?? old-fashioned??
CZESLAW m Polish
Derived from the Slavic elements chest "honour" and slav "glory".
from http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/pol.html
Thanks for this link Luxxi it's awesome.
btw: "honour" in slovene would be "chast", while "glory would be "slava".
Chastislav maybe. but I've never heard that name here. But he have nummerous names ending with -slav (like Miroslav, Tomislav, Rastislav, Radoslav, Branislav (also Branimir) ... probably more, I can't remember now). never thought this had anything to do with "slava".
yes, i got that name from the website, luxxi. but thanks anyway..^_^!
I'm little late but yep, Czeslaw is a Polish name. It is kind of old-fashioned. It was still very popular 50-60 years ago.
Edited: Ooops I forgot that I can't use all our letters.
russkayatatu
04-06-2003, 19:19
coolasfcuk, he he, I didn't mean to pressure you about the swearing - I can wait, LoL. As you said, work is more important :gigi:
Za sega tova e, but I will be back soon :)
coolasfcuk
04-06-2003, 19:50
Za sega tova e
russkayatatu, :done: Molodets !!!! :D Picking up fast !
How would you say that in other slavic languages: 'That's it for now.' ?
A rabota - voobshe fignya kakaya-to! Koshmar !! (ru) = A rabota - vaobshe gnyaz niakakva ! Koshmar !! (bg) = And work - so f*cked ! Nightmare !! (eng) :gigi:
There are some bad words for ya.
How would you say that in other slavic languages: 'That's it for now.' ?
"To je vse za zdaj" - slovene
"Ovo je vse za sada" - serbo-croatian (I'm not 100% sure about this one)
btw: I talked to some russian guy from Ural and he said that the word "hui" isn't really russian, that they adopted it from tartar language. They have another word for it but I can't remember it now (something begining with p...peyzda or something like that...)
Originally posted by coscos
I'm little late but yep, Czeslaw is a Polish name. It is kind of old-fashioned. It was still very popular 50-60 years ago.
coscos thanks. is that name a cool name? or do u have any name that's old and cool to suggest me? i'd be appreciated it :)
coolasfcuk
04-06-2003, 22:12
"To je vse za zdaj" - slovene
"Ovo je vse za sada" - serbo-croatian (I'm not 100% sure about this one)
He freddie, yes, the word order doesnt really matter that much, so the bulgarian one can turn into:
'Tova e za sega' - this is the shorter version, meaning, 'vsichko' = 'all' is taken out, since it is not really needed to understand, it is kinda slang way of eating it out, since everyone knows what is being said :)
The full sentanse would be: 'Tova e vsichko za sega' :gigi:
More bad words coming later :D
russkayatatu
08-06-2003, 20:43
I don't have too much time, but I thought I would introduce more grammar fun while we're waiting on those bad words :gigi:
freddie, do NUMBERS decline in Slovene? Or other languages, for that matter? They do in Russian, and that is a real nightmare. To give an easy example: 'do dvux' (until two) - or, to use one from a tatu song, 'doschitai do sta' (count to 100). Ah, that's not so hard, but when you get into saying something like 'with seventeen girls,' 'until three hundred' things get fun :D (I am not even 100% sure how to say them, to tell the truth, because it does not come up that often, but I think: 's semnadcatiu devushkami,' and 'do trexsta' - although trexsta sounds kind of weird to me; I don't know if that's right or not - ah, I need a grammar refresher!!).
Also, about some of these xui/fig expressions: in Russian sometimes the accent will go on the preposition, as in 'tebya na fig': 'na' is stressed and 'fig' is unstressed. Does this happen in other languages? It doesn't happen with every preposition, but sometimes it does, and I think it tends to be associated with the nouns also.
And one last question: Russian reduces its unstressed vowels, especially 'o', which sounds kind of like 'a' when it's in an unstressed position. Do others? I thought maybe it was only Russian, because I remember that Old Church Slavonic didn't have vowel reduction and I know that Polish doesn't...when I was looking at that Bosnian song I thought, based on 'pokazhi' that it didn't either, but then I realized they had 'govorish', and those didn't sound like fully pronounced o's to me. So, what about Bulgarian, Slovene, et al.?
Yes the numbers decline in Slovene. It's not a big problem... you just have to know basic declination rules, plus some extras :)
Dochitai do 100 - in slovene: "shtej do sto" - that's easy yes - it's in the 1. sklon (padezh)
With 17. girls (btw, we write dot's infront of the number when it declines) = S sedemnajstimi dekleti (17=sedemnajst)
'until three hundred' - Do tristo (this doesn't decline in slovene. Are you sure it declines in Russian? "Trexsta" sounds funny to me as well
About accents on the prepositions... I can't remember any like that at the moment... have to think of some more expressions... but I don't think we have that.
As far as I know we don't reduce the unstressed vowels: i heard that russians do that and it always sounded kinda funny. I know that we don't do that and croatians, bosnians and serbs don't do it neither (we have pokazhi and govoriti (govorish) as well as they do and we don't reduce it... maybe it sounds like that when spoken quickly but it's not a rule.)
russkayatatu
11-06-2003, 22:13
freddie, I haven't checked it but I am almost positive I made "trexsta" up. Sorry! I'm pretty sure that in Russian words like 300, 400, 500 etc. don't decline also. Sometimes my brain is too active and gets ahead of my ear... :rolleyes:
Yes, I can see why numbers declining isn't a problem. Let me back up. There are just a whole lot of number declension issues in Russian, and that makes it hard, at least for non-native speakers. For example, the numbers 2, 3, and 4 (dva, tri, cetyre) are followed by a noun in the singular genitive case, one (odin, odna, odno) doesn't specify a case (so, nominative if it's a subject), and the numbers five and up take a noun in the genitive plural. So you have odin god, dva goda, and pjat' let (one year, two years, five years). That's not that hard, but if you have an adj. that goes with the noun it's in genitive plural, regardless of whether the noun itself is in genitive singular or plural. So: odin xoroshii god, dva xoroshix goda, pjat' xoroshix let (one good year, two good years, five good years). And if the noun is feminine, like kniga (book), the genitive sg. is the same form as the nominative plural, so most people will say dve xoroshie knigi instead of dve xoroshix knigi (two good books), because xoroshie is the nominative/accusative plural form that usually goes with knigi, and since two is more than one I guess people think it's plural.
I just did a horrible job explaining that :gigi: And you probably have something similar anyway :gigi: Anyway I am kind of sorry I brought the subject up, because it is probably difficult only for me, but I was just remembering that I had a lot of headaches over all the declensions involving numbers in Russian when I studied it. And uh, there were even more rules that were harder than the one I just described, but I can't think of them right now.
But in any case, I'm pretty sure you're right, 300 does not decline, so a phrase like "okolo pjat'sot celovek" (about 500 people) would be correct...I think :D
(odin, odna, odno), that's probably what we say (eden, ena, eno)...
Then about the years: "god" changes into "leto"??? Interesting I didn't know that. We have "leto" for a "year", "leta" in plural and it's always like that (declensions in plural leta, let, letom, leta...) ..., serbo-croatian expression is "godina".
Otherwise I think that our declension here is the same as in Russian: Eno leto, dve leti, pet let (one year, two years, five years)...
With the adj. added I think that it's in genitive form as well... let's see. Good in slovene is "dobro". Eno dobro leto, dve dobri leti, pet dobrih let... huh? Is that similar? I'm slightly lost here.:D
Oh yes now I get what you mean... feminine...Year is in feminine in "slovene" that's why it's different. For "knjiga" (book) it's the same case - stays in nominative - "dve dobri knjigi" ...
Let me try to think of a masculine example...OK Chlovek (man, himan being). Eden dober chlovek, dva dobra chloveka, "pet dobrih ljudi" ... hmmm..I guess it stays in nominative as well... in genitive form it'd be "petim dobrim ljudem")
IS this what you meant of did I just completely missunderstod?!:gigi:
PolishFanInUSA
15-06-2003, 23:48
the polish fan is here czesc!
why the polish fan isn't here polish? :D
PolishFanInUSA
16-06-2003, 00:22
right here, i was just browsing through the other parts of the forum b/c no one was in this part.
QueenBee
16-06-2003, 01:05
<---Polish. ;)
sheerblade
16-06-2003, 01:06
Right on Monica :)
Well polish fan then make some contribution to our thread... First answer Russkayatatu's grammar question's or translate a tatu song or two to your language so we can compare.;)
Or at least for the begining tell us how to say good day, good morning, good night, hello and that sort of stuff in polish language.
QueenBee
18-06-2003, 01:47
freddie, Ive said that already :p
But it's nice to repeat. :D
Originally posted by queenbee
freddie, Ive said that already :p
But it's nice to repeat. :D
Sorry, that's right you did. :p
Well... on to the grammatical questions then LOL
russkayatatu
18-06-2003, 11:39
Ehh, freddie, Iґm sorry to have left for so long :gigi: Let's see what I can say here.
Yes, Russian has "leto" for "summer." Year is "god," and it declines regularly except in the genitive plural, when it becomes "let" - so you say "mnogo let" for "many years," or "pjat' let" for "five years," but for one and two you have odin god and dva goda. Iґm guessing that it came from "leto" (five summers ago = five years ago) but I don't really know.
Adj. in Russian added is in gen. as well, but the thing is that the adjective is always in gen. pl. for all numbers except one even if the noun is in gen. sg. (like for dva goda). Except in fem. when the genitive singular of the noun is the same form as the nominative plural like I mentioned. I think technically it MIGHT be OK to say "dve xoroshix (genitive plural) knigi" instead of "dve xoroshie (nominative) knigi" for "two good books," but nobody does.
freddie, I think you got most of what I meant :gigi: Iґm kind of confused as to how it works in Slovene though...is ljudi in pet dobrih ljudi the same as nominative? In Russian the adjective is always in genitive plural except for 2, 3, and 4 for feminine nouns that decline regularly. Does Slovene have different rules? It looks like a lot of the same (e.g., Eno dobro leto, dve dobri leti, pet dobrih let) but I'm kind of lost with your last example :none: ;)
russkayatatu
20-07-2003, 20:35
This has a little to do with what we were talking about before...not a lot, but I thought maybe I would share this story of my confusion with all the South Slavic languages :gigi:
Recently I was in Bulgaria and decided to listen to the radio - I like to do that in foreign countries cause I can listen to what's playing, plus it's fun to see how much I can understand of the news - and I found a station (Signal Plus? I don't remember exactly) that was playing something obviously not the usual W. hits [cool, I am not sure if it was chowga; I remember everything you told me about it but am not sure I could recognize it again after hearing it just that once :dknow: ] although it was definitely Slavic. And I could pick out some of the words - Bulgarian words - I don't remember them now but it was something about you not loving me and are doing something else, I love you but I'm going to leave, and I got excited and thought, sweet, now I know enough Bulgarian to listen to songs and know what they're talking about :D
Not that this is hard to do, though; about a year ago I started listening to compilations of "hit Russian songs" - Goryachaya Desyatka - (although with other Russ. songs) and for the most part the lyrics are SO SIMPLE: examples: "solnce ne solnce, leto ne leto, esli so mnoiu tebya ryadom netu, more ne more, pesnya ne pesnya ah ah" ("the sun's not the sun, the summer's not the summer, if you're not beside me; the sea's not the sea, the song's not the song, ah ah" :gigi: . Also typical: "perepishu liubov' i novyi den' nochnu ya bez tebya; ne povtvoritsia vnov' so mnoi istoriya moya" and "ty poceluesh' no ne liubish' no ne liubish'" and "ya za tebia umru" (I rewrite my love and start a new day without you; my story won't repeat itself again with me," "you'll kiss but you don't love, don't love," "I'll die for you"). If you know about 10 key words - or even less, just "I," "me," "you," and "love," you'll get at least half of most songs...ha ha, I used to think that writing Russian lyrics like that was easy and fun and wrote little poems: "dnem o tebe ya mectaiu, nochiu ty snish'sya mne" (I dream about you during the day, at night I see you in my sleep) before I realized that it was authentic but total crap ;) But seriously, I remember watching MTV Russia when I was in Moscow and seeing a clip where the lyrics were (I swear I am not making this up; I remembered them because they were sooooo bad): "ya ne znaiu pocemu v ponedel'nik ya ne p'iu, v sredu ya sovsem ne spliu ya pyatnicu liubliu" (I don't know why on Monday I don't drink, on Wednesday I don't sleep at all, I love Fridays). So with lyrics like that it is usually not hard to figure out what songs mean even if you have only been studying a language for a short time :heh:
Anyway, I was listening to this song in Bulgarian and could sort of understand it, and then another song came on where I couldn't pick out any words, and then another - and I kind of stopped listening for a while - and then I heard "volish, volish" and thought WAIT...that can't be Bulgarian...because "volish" sounds only like "volja," a little, so it must be Serbian or something; I AM going to get confused :gigi: So I stopped listening to Balkan "chowga" and found another station, which I think was BG National Radio (they said something like "only" - or "all" - Bulgarian music, along with the station name), so I could listen to something that wouldn't mess me up more than necessary :gigi: I suppose another fun game to play, rather than "guess the lyrics," might have been "guess the language," although I am not that good yet - I can hear that it's Slavic, but that's about it, unless it uses one of the < 50 Bulgarian words I know...other than that...I'm lost :dknow:
It was fun listening to the radio and hearing songs like "Obiche me" ("love me") though :)
So I'm not the only one! The concept of using Audio Pattern Matching techniques to figure out some words in foreign languages. I do that all the time and I'd say 80% of the russian words I learned by listening to Тату were cases like that. Heard the part of the lyrics, made a guess, looked up the lyrics translation and found I was right.
Also in Charlie's Angels 2, at the beginning, one of the girls said "I'm no angel" in a foreign language (Pretty sure it's a Slavic language givin that my very limited knowledge of Russian helped me understand it) and I recognized it (Not just reading the subtitles)
That was kinda scary but cool at the same time!
Now if I can leverage this more and more, I could learn Russian rather quickly if I pay more attention to Тату lyrics. (And watch a couple of russian movies, so maybe I can blind-purchase Russian Ark on DVD when it comes out)
coolasfcuk
21-07-2003, 10:18
russkayatatu, haha :done: not bad !! Yes, 'Signal Plus' is Chalga station !!! :laugh:, so most likely, there was some serbian songs from time to time. The other one, I think is 'BG radio', which plays only bulgarian music :D
I must say, and I told you before, you did Great in bulgarian !!! None of the other americans/westerners that have come to BG (that I know of) can order in the restaurants or ask for directions, etc by themselves in bulgarian :gigi:
Bravo, mnogo dobre se spravi !!! Otlichno dazhe ! :D
russkayatatu
24-07-2003, 20:35
coolasfcuk, ha ha, thank you :D I thought it was Chalga but I wasn't sure ;)
I was asked a while ago, and maybe it will be interesting for other people: how to say "I masturbate" in Russian? The noun is "masturbacia," and the verb, I see as I look it up, is "masturbirovat'," so it would be: "ya masturbiruiu." :gigi: My Russian is not good for a lot of vocabulary, but usually I can tell when it's too big a leap and it sounds like it could be wrong: most foreign verbs end in -ovat' in Russian and conjugate -uiu, -uesh', -uet, -uem, -uete, -uiut: for example: tancovat' ("to dance," sounds kind of Germanic to me), and you get "ya tancuiu." Masturbate I wasn't sure about, cause 1) this word has come up only ONCE in my reading/conversations (wait a second, ha HA HA, no, actually twice: in articles about tatu and PD and in an article in Russian Cosmopolitan titled "Muzh ili Dush" (get that??) LoL :gigi: ), but in any case it's usually "zanimat'sia masturbacii" as far as I remember, and 2) it's a borrowed word, so I was trying to think if it could be an -ovat' type even though you had the noun "masturbacia," which would seemingly make it easy to conjugate "masturbaiu," "masturbaesh'," etc.
See, up until now I never bothered to look it up, and if pressed would say, "ya zanimaius' masturbacii," except that's too many syllables to sing along with PD :gigi: And I knew there must be another word, I just didn't know it then.
Do foreign words have a common conjugation in other Slavic languages, I wonder? -Ovat' in Russian is pretty widespread.
coolasfcuk
25-07-2003, 15:44
russkayatatu, ha ha ha :lol: :gigi: Why does your question remind me of Tony, Prostye Dvizhenya and me.... :heh: ..... "ya masturbaiuuuu'... ha ha, btw Tony said that because 'masturbaiu' sounded Russian to him - ha ha ha, not for any other reason...the 'iu' at the end did it
In bulgarian we would say: 'az masturbiram' or we can also say the long version that you have prefered so far: 'zanimavam se s masturbacia' but that sounds too long and people wont use it as much :)
yes, verbs have common conjugation :) ovat, yat, yam, etc too hard for me to think right now of all, but hope you get the point, it is the same as in Russian
russkayatatu
27-07-2003, 22:43
The long version that I've "preferred," ha ha, are you kidding, it's just the only way I knew how to say it :heh: "V etom klipe Lena proxodit vremya v kafe, p'et vodu i zhdet svoyu podrugu, a Yulya poka v bane zanimaetsia masturbacii..." something like that :gigi: I'm guessing it's not so popular either, probably mostly written, plus another problem is that it can easily sound like you do it all the time (rather than are just doing it now) if you're not careful :gigi:
And yeah, "masturbaiu" does sound like it could a Russian word, but it's not - "masturbiruiu" instead. :D
Bulgarian has a common conj. (ovat) too? Great, close again. You know, I can read magazine articles (at least articles from some magazines) in Bulgarian with comprehension of maybe 70-75%. Reading reeeeaaally slowly, but still...not too bad :gigi: It helps (and is more fun) when there are pictures, though ;)
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.