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haku
17-10-2006, 19:57
I'm mainly starting this thread because of the French presidential election but it's a general political thread.

So the circus of the presidential election is really kicking off tonight with the first debate between the 3 socialist candidates (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6058230.stm) to candidacy.

What are their differences? Well…

Ségolène Royal is a national socialist, a left-wing conservative, she supports traditional and familly values, she's tough on crime, etc.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn is a liberal socialist, he supports an open market economy and a liberal society.

Laurent Fabius is a radical socialist, he's on the very left of the party, he's anti-liberal and shares many ideas with the communist party.

One of those 3 will become the official socialist candidate after a vote held on 16 November.

the unforgiven
17-10-2006, 20:12
Laurent Fabius is a radical socialist
and he's stupid loool *sorry, I just don't like him*

may be I'm little bit feminist, but I'd like Ségolène to be the socialist candidate
I wanna see a debate between her and Nicolas Sarkozy, cuz' they both have good ideas (and bad ones :p ) and it'd be interesting to see how they manage to defend their opinions
but we will see what happen on the 16th (my sister's birthday yay lol)

Haku this thread is a great idea
I hope I can answer whenever I want, sometimes I just don't find my words in english to express my opinion

haku
17-10-2006, 21:09
and he's stupid loool *sorry, I just don't like him*It's no problem, i profoundly dislike Laurent Fabius as well, he's the main reason why the 'no' won in the referendum on the EU constitution, son of a bitch, LOL.

I've always liked Dominique Strauss-Kahn, i more or less agree with his socio-liberal views.

And i have to admit that i don't really like Ségolène Royal, her traditional values don't really agree with me. :p

freddie
17-10-2006, 22:08
From your description I'd say Dominique Strauss-Kahn is the lesser of two...or rather three evils. :p

the unforgiven
17-10-2006, 22:26
It's no problem, i profoundly dislike Laurent Fabius as well, he's the main reason why the 'no' won in the referendum on the EU constitution, son of a bitch, LOL.

I second that!! son of a b*tch!!

btw, Dominique Strauss-Kahn afraid me :eek: in a physical way lol

but, we have to wait and see who the socialist militants (hmmm same word in english?) will choose
I hope this time, there'll be no Front National and we can vote in a democratic way (reminds me bad memories from 2002!! I was so shocked!!)

haku
17-10-2006, 23:56
Since i've presented the main socialist candidates, i thought i would present the main conservative candidate Nicolas Sarkozy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarkozy).

Nicolas Sarkozy is hardly a "conservative" though since he proposes major changes for French society. Nicolas Sarkozy is a radical liberal, he has a very hard line on crime and immigration (his ideas are similar to Ségolène Royal's in that respect even though they are political opponents), he's rather pro-American and supports economic reforms based on the American model.

On a side note, Nicolas Sarkozy (full name Nicolas Paul Stéphane Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa) is the son of a Hungarian aristocrat who fled Hungary in 1944 when the Russian army invaded the country and installed a communist regime. So Nicolas Sarkozy doesn't really like communists and soviets. :p

haku
18-10-2006, 17:37
So according to the press none of the socialist candidates took a real advantage in yesterday evening's debate, they all held their ground.

Ségolène Royal didn't crumble due to her inexperience, she was able to look like she knew what she was talking about, she still showed however that she had a rather superficial understanding of many topics. But she spoke simple and people like her for that.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn was definitely the most at ease, he displayed an impressive knowledge of social and economic matters and appeared reasonable in what can be done in those areas.

Laurent Fabius was his usual extreme-left self, his radical ideas were probably well received in the leftmost part of the population, but he must have scared the shit out of everyone else.

Article on Liberation (http://www.liberation.fr/dossiers/gauche/actualite/211371.FR.php).
Short summary on BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6062870.stm).

the unforgiven
19-10-2006, 16:28
I read on the free newspaper 20 minutes that the socialist debate was not interesting at all, there'll be another one in Clermont-Ferrand tonight

Plus, there was an article which deals with Jacques Chirac, it said that he may wanna "get in the race" for presidential elections :confused:
here's the link (http://www.20minutes.fr/articles/2006/10/19/20061019-actualite-france-Et-si-Jacques-Chirac-se-representait.php) it's in french, if someone wants a translation I can do it later ... I have no time right now! lol
anyway, it says that he'll tell more about it in 2007 so let's wait and see

haku
20-10-2006, 15:22
Plus, there was an article which deals with Jacques Chirac, it said that he may wanna "get in the race" for presidential electionsYeah, Jacques Chirac has not said that he won't run again, he will announce his decision in early 2007. If he does run again, it will be as an independant since the UMP will nominate Nicolas Sarkozy.

*****
Another rogue UMP member, Nicolas Dupont-Aignan (http://www.nda2007.fr/), has made it clear this week that he also will run as an independant against the official UMP candidate Nicolas Sarkozy. Nicolas Dupont-Aignan is just funny. :laugh:

*****
And since we're talking of less known candidates, i'll introduce the one i support:

Christian Chavrier (http://www.christian-chavrier.eu/static/index.html) from the Federalist Party.
Their program is "a federal France in a federal Europe" and i totally agree, an autonomous Normandy within a federal EU, that's what i want too. :yes:

the unforgiven
20-10-2006, 20:17
Christian Chavrier from the Federalist Party.
"Ni à gauche, ni à droite ... Devant!" good slogan
I'll read that later

today I read that the debate of Clermont Ferrant was "the same", they defended their ideas and Laurent Fabius was the most appreciated (kind of normal, cuz' Clermont's mayor is pro Laurent Fabius)
there was a pic attached to the article, and I realised that Laurent Fabious looks like Mr. Burns in the Simpsons looool

anyway, I'm thinking Jacques Chirac is too old (may be sick) to run again
but it's only my opinion :p

Plus, there's another article about Arlette Laguiller but I'm so tired to read it now ;)

spyretto
20-10-2006, 20:25
France is the mother of all crooked politicians ;)
I guess it goes with the terittory...

fanoff
22-10-2006, 08:42
To deny that Armenians suffered genocide will be crime and you will be accused of being against that.Oh,thats what i call the freedom of speech!i wanna go to France and get arrested!And seeing that it is done to get the Armenian votes in the country,just makes me wanna puke.Please dont let us enter EU,the land of freedom,cause we dont respect the human rights(just the same as youre doing now) and freedom of speech that was supposed to be strictly defended by the French people!?

nath
22-10-2006, 09:19
If you deny that Armenians suffered genocide in France, you won't be arrested. Don't worry.
Our jails are full...so if, at least, you don't transport 500 kg of drug in your car, you've few chances to go to jail.

By the way, congratulations for your Nobel Prize of litterature: Orhan Pamuk ;)
Have you already read him?

fanoff
22-10-2006, 09:41
By the way, congratulations for your Nobel Prize of litterature: Orhan Pamuk
Have you already read him?

Ah,thank you.I think this prize is important for us but you know he said Turks executed a million Armenians and 30 thousand Kurds in 1915 and his popularity went down here.Im reading his book right now,called "Benim Adım Kırmızı",it is a little bit boring but im still trying to read it.I read "Kar" back in 2003,that one was way better than this.

nath
22-10-2006, 10:04
Ah,thank you.I think this prize is important for us but you know he said Turks executed a million Armenians and 30 thousand Kurds in 1915 and his popularity went down here
Yes...indeed, he was even accused for these thoughts by the Turkish government but ,at the end of his trial, he wasn't condemned because of the pressures of Europe.

Without these pressures I 'm not so sure he won't be sleeping in jail right now.

the unforgiven
22-10-2006, 10:33
i wanna go to France and get arrested!
good luck! I'm doing my best to get arrested and it never works lol may be I'll try to drive with 500kg of cocaine in my truck ;)

as an exemple, few months ago in Lyon (my town hehe) there was a demonstration against the armenian memorial (http://www.rfi.fr/actufr/images/077/memorial_armenien_lyon200.jpg) which is built on Antonin Poncet place. Most of demonstrators were turkish, and there was police to protect them, it was totally legal
there was also demos for the pro-armenian memorial
and it's ok, everybody has the right to have its own opinion and we have to respect that
About the armenian genocide, we will never agree so chill out :heh:

Last night, with my friends we had a little chat about presidential elections and we talked about François Bayrou
he's never on tv or I'm blind? I remember that he was seriously involved in european elections few years ago cuz' he wanted french people to vote
anyone has some news about him?

fanoff
22-10-2006, 11:59
so what about the freedom of speech you were all defending crazily?you were shouting at me me that everyone has to say their opinion and when the other side does that,its only"yeah,we have to respect"?is it just a thing for us and you can do whatever you want when youre in the big EU?What the f*ck is that 500 kg drug in my truck?i dont know anything about it!

and an example from me,on the first day of Ramadan(of which month today is the last),some people in France attacked some mosque,and you do guess it,the attackers were French.Damage to the mosque was modest despite the fact four fires were set inside the Penhars Mosque, one of two Muslim places of worship in Quimper.Racist insults were scrawled on walls of the mosque there, according to the prefecture of the Aude region.

another example,this is a mosque attacked in France (http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-03/06/images/pic05.jpg)
is it still ok_?

the unforgiven
22-10-2006, 12:20
fanoff, about the cocaine joke, it was humour ... may be I suck at kidding but, heh, I have a try
and I so don't get what you mean with your freedom of speech!!
the unforgiven = stupid
you don't want me to respect your opinion? I can curse but I don't want to

about the mosque attack, wtf?!
explain your point of view please cuz I really don't understand what you wanna show
you said that there's an expression of freedom? to attack mosque? it's just dumbness!!

nath
22-10-2006, 12:33
What the f*ck is that 500 kg drug in my truck?i don't know anything about it!
It's not about you: it was just an example to explain to you that here, to g to jail you have to do a lot more to be sent to jail....but may be check the back of your car, who knows...;)*just kidding*

is it just a thing for us and you can do whatever you want when you're in the big EU?
Did I forbid you to express your opinion?

Now you, you can say what you want but if your government deny the genocide of Armenians, this is another story..about the consequences in the relationships between states.

About your racism in France, just know that here in the schools we have special meals for kiddies when there is pork in the menues...they have special meat for them....
Monday or Tuesday , when it will be the end of the Ramadan, Muslim people have their free day (it's the law)...

You seem to think we have censorship against Muslims, I would say it's actually the opposite which stays: a theater or modern opera piece has to be played recently.
It was a modern piece so , in the story, it was showed Buddha, Jesus Christ and Mahomet with the cut head...okay ...it was a symbol...

There were such menaces towards the theater that the performance was canceled.

Now , in the new indications from the Ministry of National Education, it's Forbidden to study "Zadig" of Voltaire.

Zadig was a text which was written by Voltaire in . At a moment , he was joking a little about Muslim religion to , INDEED, criticize the Christian Religion. You understand that he couldn't do it directly at this time without being condemned.

So, now it's forbidden to study Zadig to not hurt the Muslim sensibility!!
Voltaire is at the base of our actual society: he belongs to the category of writers who, by their books and their ideas, were at the origin of the French Revolution.
But now.....we CENSURE him and ourselves!....

So really Fanoff....buy a plane ticket, come to live into France during 1 year....and after, we'll just observe if you would like to just come back to live into your own country !!...

If you insult a Muslims here and it's proved that it's deliberated, you have more problems than if you insult a Christian!

It can be a burnt mosque (as it can be are a lot of crimes and racist insults from Muslims towards non Muslims here!!.....)
Are those things accepted by the French Law ? No...it's condemned!!

Is it still Okay?

haku
23-10-2006, 03:43
Latest poll for the presidential election. (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/infog/0,47-0@2-823448,54-825504,0.html)

the unforgiven
23-10-2006, 09:00
haku, thanks for the poll
so François Bayrou is here hehehe
I had seen on tv last night that Jean-Marie Le Pen is mad (oh really? lol) cuz' he considered Philippe De Villiers as a "vote thief" lol, may be people open their eyes and they don't wanna vote to FN anymore

haku
24-10-2006, 14:23
may be people open their eyes and they don't wanna vote to FN anymoreUnfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case, Le Pen has always gotten around 15% in the presidential 1st round, and apparently he'll get the same next year. Even 5 years ago when he managed to reach the 2nd round, he didn't get much higher results than usual, it's just that the left wing was devided between 15 candidates or something, that was just insane and that allowed Le Pen to finish second above all of them. We'll see if the left wing makes the same mistake this time.
What surprises me actually is that Le Pen didn't make his daughter run instead of him, she has a cleaner image and would probably get even more votes, maybe next time.


News: Nicolas Sarkozy has announced the official election dates:

Presidential 1st round: 22 april
Presidential 2nd round: 6 may
Legislative 1st round: 10 june
Legislative 2nd round: 17 june

the unforgiven
24-10-2006, 18:19
What surprises me actually is that Le Pen didn't make his daughter run instead of him, she has a cleaner image and would probably get even more votes, maybe next time.

just my point of view but I think Le Pen try a last time to fulfill his dream before letting his daughter do the job
it's just normal, previous elections show him he can have a little trust in victory :p
btw, I prefer killing myself than vote for FN hehe

nath
24-10-2006, 18:32
btw, I prefer killing myself than vote for FN hehe
Me .....I would prefer to vote Communist than to vote for FN hehe...;) I like my little health:D

the unforgiven
24-10-2006, 19:01
Me .....I would prefer to vote Communist than to vote for FN hehe... I like my little health
c'est la luuuuuttteee finale!! lol
no, really committing suicide sounds great to me :p you know I'm kind of rebel hehehe
I will never understand how people can vote for FN, may be I'm not enough open-minded

fanoff
24-10-2006, 19:23
about the mosque attack, wtf?!

i wanted to mean not only Armenian Memorials get damaged in France,and not only by us Turkish people.;)

haku
24-10-2006, 19:32
New socialist debate (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-827185,0.html?xtor=RSS-823353) tonight. Le PS promet qu'il sera moins chiant que le premier. :p

the unforgiven
24-10-2006, 19:33
i wanted to mean not only Armenian Memorials get damaged in France,and not only by us Turkish people.
yeah, like finding swastika on graves ;)
Plus, I never said that Turkish are evil or whatever

haku
25-10-2006, 11:03
So the second socialist debate (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-827206,0.html?xtor=RSS-823353) was much more lively.

Ségolène Royal has mentioned once again her proposal to send young offenders to military detention camps, a rather radical and controversial idea for a socialist. Who said women would bring a softer touch in politics? :p The old Margaret Thatcher or the modern Condoleeza Rice have showed that this is a myth, female politicians are just as harsh as male ones.

The three socialist candidates promise to legalize gay marriage and adoption, so i may vote for one of them just for that.
Like for the abolition of the death penalty, that kind of social progress can probably only be made when socialists are in power, and conservatives won't touch it once it's done.

the unforgiven
25-10-2006, 21:55
The three socialist candidates promise to legalize gay marriage and adoption, so i may vote for one of them just for that.
hmmm I hope they'll really do that, cuz' I fear they might use this argument to gain some votes :grustno:

today, I've seen one of the FN's slogan : être français, ça s'hérite ça se mérite *pukes*
it's like being stupid, it's in the genes :p

haku
26-10-2006, 23:45
Le meeting passionné du Zénith tourne à la dispute entre présidentiables (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-28628924@7-37,0.html) :D

haku
31-10-2006, 14:57
Nice article (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-829294,0.html) for those who don't like Sarkozy, with an anti-Sarkozy video at the bottom of the page.

nath
31-10-2006, 18:27
http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/societe/214113.FR.php

Last night, for their investigation, French Police has taken 4 teenagers from 14 to 17 years old.
Saturday, almost one year after the riots which took place in France, some days after than an hommage was given to the victims, one bus full of people was burnt. People could escape except one woman who is right now in the coma,because she is burnt at 70%.

It's so funny as game! :(

the unforgiven
01-11-2006, 17:13
Last night, for their investigation, French Police has taken 4 teenagers from 14 to 17 years old.
Saturday, almost one year after the riots which took place in France, some days after than an hommage was given to the victims, one bus full of people was burnt. People could escape except one woman who is right now in the coma,because she is burnt at 70%.

this is just so sick!
I wonder why people done such things *sighs* obviously there's a problem with education and lack of respect
I will never understand this kind of drama, some people really need to open their eyes
it's a way too good to share with the others, to help, to learn etc etc instead of being violent and dumb

Social Supa Crew (http://www.mozinor.com/) a funny link with the socialist politicians
je passe du coq à l'âne! sorry sorry

haku
07-11-2006, 18:51
So yesterday i watched a long interview with Strauss-Kahn on iTele and i have to say that i agreed with pretty much everything he said, except when it came to EU enlargement where he said he supported Turkey's membership, that was a big disappointment. It's hard to find a politician who thinks exactly like yourself. :p


In other news:

Chevènement (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-831671,0.html) announced he'll run for president, no surprise there… I hate the guy, even more than Fabius.

The antiliberals (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-831670,0.html) are trying to find an agreement for a single candidate, that doesn't seem very likely to happen at the moment.

nath
07-11-2006, 19:58
So yesterday i watched a long interview with Strauss-Kahn on iTele
On a personal level, I think that Strauss-Khan is the best candidate for the Left.
I think that Ségolène Royal could have some good ideas sometimes and that she has a BIG courage , in the French political world: she says what she thinks without be afraid by the taboos.... I mean in France especially you have to practice the "Politically Correct" speech.
So I think she was enough courageous to dare to tell some kinds of things which were hurting in the Left World.
But I think that , if you dig a little more, she isn't enough solid about the economical aspect.

Fabius, I really can't bear him for long time and I don't know why he sounds always "wrong/fake/insincere" to my ears when he speaks.

About Strauss-Khan...even if there are some little things I don't like in him as a person, I think he has very good knowledge about the economical aspect.

~~~
Some little anecdotes:
Around 20 years ago, i was working with a friend who was still as student.
She was a very kind and simple girl .

One of her best friend was the daughter of Strauss-Khan.
So, once, it was just at the opening of Euro Disney, she was invited by her friend (the daughter) to come with the family to Euro Disney.

It was the inauguration of Euro Disney so the company had invited a lot of V.I.P to stay a week-end : the visit of the park + the super hotel.
All was FREE and paid by the company.

I remember how my friend was shocked by Strauss-Khan who was criticizing with a big disgust the Bedroom, saying that there was not enough Fruits there to say Welcome to people when they arrive in their bedroom.
He was criticizing everything: the hotel , the food, the attractions, the people working there...nothing was enough good for him!

Personally, it always makes me smile a lot , people who "fight" for inequalities and live themselves in the most expensive areas of Paris like Little Bourgeois..

We call that here :"The Caviar Left".....:D

My friend, her, was just so admirizing of all this Luxe, all these marvellous things which where offered to her ...for free....

~~
About Ségolène:
Another of my friends is gymnastic teacher in the schools of Paris.
Once, she was at the swimming pool teaching to kiddies how to swim.
As she is enough energetic, one of her friends, another gymnastic teacher came and told her: "Take it easy with this one because she is the daughter of Ségolène Royal"...
My friend answered "Ségolène or not Ségolène I don't care!"...
So he explained to her that Ségolène wasn't liked at all by the teachers cause she was tolerating absolutely no remark about her kiddies.

And he explained too this little story:
The daughter of Ségolène has to go with her class in an "open-class" during 2 weeks. It means that the full class with the teacher moves to the mountain or to the sea to have some special activities there..

Before to leave, the teachers organized a meeting with all the parents in explaining some important rules. Ségolène was there cause she was a parent + the representing of the pupils parents. At this time, she was Minister of Family I think.

One of the important rules is that a kind of deal is necessary to install with the parents: they can write to their children but they don't have to call them at the phone nor to visit them. Because , it isn't easy for the organization and because , if they do it, it breaks the kind of balance which is tried to be installed by the teachers: babies will cry cause they want to see their mums and so on...

So Ségolène was there and said to the other parents: "Yes! Of course, it's very important to respect this rule for the good rhythm of the child!".

The class went to the "open-class"..and of course, Ségolène was the only one who was calling her daughter each noon and each evening...;)
As she was a Minister , nobody dared to say anything....

And the must of the must is that...as she was a Minister of Family, Ségolène decided that it would be a good thing for her job to visit an "open-class" to check the conditions of living of the pupils of the French school...
So Our Ségolène ask for a shopper/helicopter and she arrived , guess where?....to the "open-class" where was her daughter.... :D

I understand her feeling of mother but this story always makes me smile cause it shows that "whatever you're from Left or from Right" , there is always a big difference between the words and the acts ;)

the unforgiven
07-11-2006, 20:54
"whatever you're from Left or from Right" , there is always a big difference between the words and the acts
I totally agree with you
the only one who can be proud of acting as he thinks is Le Pen ... dumbness all the way :p

Chevènement announced he'll run for president
omg!! papie fait de la résistance!! still alive? lol

I read that DSK's popularity increased in last polls and that Jack Lang supports Ségolène Royal cuz', in his point of view, she's the only one who can be elected at 1st round by socialists
so 1st round on the 16th of November and I guess the second one is on the 23th (not sure here)

haku
08-11-2006, 20:07
Thanks for the anecdotes nath, always nice to know how they behave behind the scenes.


I was reading what was said during the debate last night, and oh my… Strauss-Khan said that he was seeing the EU expanding "around the Mediterranean"?! Did he blow a fuse or something? What the hell went into him, we're not trying to build a new Roman Empire, the days of Mare Nostrum are over. I guess that's bye bye DSK.

haku
09-11-2006, 16:04
Now that's different, Clémentine Autain (one of the antiliberal candidates) has revealed in the press (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-832616,0.html) that she was raped when she was a student… What an odd thing to bring up during a campaign.

the unforgiven
09-11-2006, 16:56
I read in "20 minutes" that Ségolène thinks that the debates were unfair cuz' DSK and Fabius know Elkabach better than her
for her, he gave some tips about the questions etc etc here's the article (http://www.20minutes.fr/articles/2006/11/09/20061109-actualite-france-Royal-la-controverse-apres-les-debats.php)
and I read that Bruno Gollnisch has to pay 10 000 euros cuz' he insulted Jews hehe great to hear that
I'm also glad that he's no longer a teacher in university Lyon 3 :bebebe: *whistles* son of a b*tch lol

haku
09-11-2006, 22:29
I'm also glad that he's no longer a teacher in university Lyon 3What a nightmare it would be to have him as a teacher. *gags*


I just watched Sarkozy's speech on his economic platform, he also outlined his European and international policies and wow, i was pretty impressed.

On economics, it was a very detailed speech and i agreed on a lot of his ideas, i don't think he's that far from DSK actually, of course Sarkozy is more liberal, but many core economic ideas are not that different, i can agree with what both of them are saying.

I was pleasantly surprised when he outlined his EU policy, he's closer to federalist ideas than i thought, i especially liked when he said that the EU can not expand indefinitely and must now define its final borders once and for all, i also liked when he mentioned that "variable geometry" should be allowed (meaning that EU states that want to go toward more integration should not be stopped from doing so by those that don't want to, contrary to how it works today). I couldn't agree more on all of that.

He's much more pro-American than i am though, LOL, but as long as he's very pro-European, i can live with that.

haku
10-11-2006, 19:20
Latest poll for the presidential election.
1st round (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/infog/0,47-0@2-823448,54-833342,0.html)
2nd round (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/infog/0,47-0@2-823448,54-833346,0.html)

coolasfcuk
10-11-2006, 20:16
:lol: dont take this the wrong, but i find it humorous how the frenchies are the onlyl ones discussing France (for the most part) ..... clearly Frace is no USA :lol:

haku
10-11-2006, 20:34
Haha, indeed we've lost all international importance a long time ago, but so have all other European countries in my opinion. As long as we won't create a true European federation, we won't have any weight in international matters.

the unforgiven
11-11-2006, 11:12
i find it humorous how the frenchies are the onlyl ones discussing France (for the most part)
hehe you're right :gigi:
french egocentrism pffff lol

troubles for Ségolène? huh? (http://www.20minutes.fr/articles/2006/11/10/20061110-actualite-france-Royal-les-profs-les-35-heures-et-les-videos.php)

yesterday, during my super interesting english lesson, I had read an article about Le Pen his popularity and his program ... omg! no more euro, no more europe, no more abortion, no more techno music etc etc
perfect illustation of madness

haku
11-11-2006, 17:36
yesterday, during my super interesting english lesson, I had read an article about Le Pen his popularity and his program ... omg! no more euro, no more europe, no more abortion, no more techno music etc etc
perfect illustation of madnessHaha, yeah, his daughter almost sounds like a reasonable woman compared to him, she has the same ideas though, she just hide them a bit better under a nicer package. The most disturbing is Chevènement who shares a lot of those ideas as well.


On a lighter note, i was reading that the top Google search containing the word "Ségolène" is "Ségolène Royal nue". :lol: "Clémentine Autain lesbienne" et "Clémentine Autain nue" are also popular searches apparently, LOL.

the unforgiven
12-11-2006, 16:23
last night, I talked about Nicolas Hulot with one of my friend and he thinks that Nicolas has good ideas cuz' he travels all over the world and knows the good side of each country ... hmmm what do you think about that?
I was pretty surprised that Nicolas Hulot wanna get into the race may be cuz' I'm too young and I'm not aware of his politician side :dknow:

about Marine Le Pen, she's the witch of the new century lol
she knows how to convince people (as her father)
their way of speaking is the only thing I respect, I don't know how to say it in english but I find that Le Pen and his daughter have "une bonne rhétorique" they rarely make mistakes in their speechs and they always use the good words to brainwash people ... it's quite disturbing

haku
12-11-2006, 17:59
I don't think Nicolas Hulot is serious about running for president, he's trying to influence the platforms of other candidates, which i have no problem with since Nicolas Hulot has a lot of good ideas. But as popular as he is, he's not a credible candidate because his ideas are limited to the environment, a presidential candidate needs to have opinions and proposals about pretty much everything, not just one topic.


Here's a website (http://www.programme-presidentiel.com/) that keeps tracks of candidates opinions and proposals, that's quite interesting.

haku
14-11-2006, 04:05
Sarko / Ségo … amour (http://blog.jeunespop87.fr/public/images/Sego-sarko-2_WEB.jpg) ou haine (http://195.20.14.201/0/02/31/49/actualit-/elections-2007/sarko-sego.jpg) :p

And Florence Foresti does Ségolène (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlwyGOmG2Gg) :gigi:

the unforgiven
14-11-2006, 12:01
LMAO! Florence Foresti rocks :D I miss Anne-Sophie de La Coquillette lol

haku
17-11-2006, 00:58
Ségolène Royal has won the socialist candidacy (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-835442,0.html) directly in the 1st round, she got probably around 60% of the votes.
I can't say i'm very happy about this, but oh well.


In unrelated news, Turkey has cut its military ties with France (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6153186.stm)… I didn't really know we had military ties, but ok, lol.

the unforgiven
17-11-2006, 18:58
Ségolène Royal has won the socialist candidacy directly in the 1st round, she got probably around 60% of the votes
yay for Ségolène because she's a woman lol is it the first time that the socialist runner is a woman? huh?
she may become the first woman french president, it's cool :)

the unforgiven
23-11-2006, 14:31
A la fac de la précarité, option tapin (http://www.20minutes.fr/articles/2006/11/23/20061123-actualite-france-A-la-fac-de-la-precarite-option-tapin.php)
I've read this article in the subway today and I was pretty surprised that so many students prostitute to make money
1/57 if it's "true" it means that there's 526 hookers in my uni :eek:

haku
24-11-2006, 00:27
I've read this article in the subway today and I was pretty surprised that so many students prostitute to make money
1/57 if it's "true" it means that there's 526 hookers in my uni :eek:2% of French students prostitute themselves? Oh yeah it's true, the number is probably much higher than that actually, the article says that 10% of English students prostitute themselves and i remember reading that 40% of Japanese students prostitute themselves.
It's a growing trend, more and more students sell sex, it's fast and easy money.

the unforgiven
24-11-2006, 14:37
It's a growing trend, more and more students sell sex, it's fast and easy money.
yeah, seriously when I read that I wasn't really schoked, surprised but not disturbed
I understand why some students choose prostitution, if it's safe, cuz' it's so hard to find a f*ckin job to pay studies etc etc

I've checked the comments about this article and one of them made my day "nous n'allons pas tomber dans la repentance, prsenté comme cela l'article choque, en prenant du recul a voir, mais j'a confiance avec Ségo tous cela va disparaitre"
Ségolène is the new Panacae LOL people are naive sometimes!

the unforgiven
29-11-2006, 20:42
happy b-day Jacques Chirac :gigi: he's 74 years old, having health problems ... if I were him I won't get into the race for the next elections
but it's just my point of view, today when I read the newspaper I thought that if he's elected again he could die during his mandate :eek:

haku
01-12-2006, 00:05
I was reading the 2005-2050 population projection for France (Insee (http://www.insee.fr/), in French), and it is estimated that France should reach a population of about 75 million people by 2050.
It's interesting because we're always told that the population is aging (which is true), but rarely that the population still continues to grow steadily nonetheless.
75 million won't be a problem anyway, the country is over twice larger in area than Great Britain for example, it could easily accommodate 100 million people.

I also noticed this table (http://www.insee.fr/fr/ffc/chifcle_fiche.asp?ref_id=NATTEF01203&tab_id=205) which shows that the greater Paris now has over 11 million people, i wonder where it will be in 2050… 15 million? :p

freddie
01-12-2006, 13:01
It's obvious population is aging since the age expectancy is rising streadily and compensates for decreasing birth rate. But it's still a mixed blessing at best. Europe is slowly becoming a continent of old people. Health care companies will be the masters of everyone's future.

It's kind of hard to believe that so many students are into prostitution. In France and UK no less. Two relatively wealthy countries. If that be the case than that figure would probably rise up to 90% in eastern & central Europe.

haku
01-12-2006, 18:46
It's obvious population is aging since the age expectancy is rising streadily and compensates for decreasing birth rate. But it's still a mixed blessing at best. Europe is slowly becoming a continent of old people.The situation is not too bad in France, the birth rate is currently 1.94 per woman and rising, there are good indications it'll go back over 2.0 pretty soon.

Here's a page that shows the population evolution (http://www.insee.fr/fr/ffc/chifcle_fiche.asp?ref_id=NATTEF02133&tab_id=23) in France for the past 20 years, the table is in French but easily understandable (all numbers are in thousand people), the first column is the total population, after that you have births and deaths, "Solde naturel" is the natural growth (difference between births and deaths excluding immigration), "Solde migratoire" is the number of immigrants who settle in France.
The situation is relatively stable, France gains every year an average of 250,000 people from natural growth, plus 80,000 people from immigration.
That's about 3 more million people every 10 years.

The population is indeed aging because life expectancy is increasing, but the number of young people is also increasing steadily.

As for the evolution in the coming decades…
Here's the conservative projection (http://www.insee.fr/fr/ppp/ir/accueil.asp?page=projpop0550/cad/cadrage.htm#E1) (based on declining natural growth, stable immigration) :
population would be 70 million by 2050 with 22% under 20, 52% betweeen 20 and 65, and 26% over 65.
And here's what is more or less the government's objective (http://www.insee.fr/fr/ppp/ir/accueil.asp?page=projpop0550/cad/cadrage.htm#E8) (stable yearly natural growth of 250,000 like for the past 20 years, slightly higher immigration) :
population would be close to 80 million by 2050 with 24% under 20, 50.5% betweeen 20 and 65, and 25.5% over 65.

The reality is likely to fall somewhere in between, with a population of about 75 million. And in any case, about a quarter of the population should be under 20, another quarter above 65, and the rest in between, which all in all is not that bad and manageable.


It's true that the situation is much worse in Europe as a whole though, those numbers are rather telling:
In 2004, the 25 EU states combined had a natural growth of 180,000 people, France alone had a natural growth of 279,000 people, which means many other EU states actually had a decrease!
2005 was a bit better, the 25 EU states combined had a natural growth of 439,000 people, but France alone had its usual natural growth of 270,000 people, which means the other 24 EU states combined only grew of 169,000!

Like i've said above, France has had an average yearly natural growth of about 250,000 people for the past 20 years, but many other European countries are indeed experiencing a sharp decline. Under the same projections which expect France to reach 75 million people by 2050, Germany is expected to drop to 70 million, and Italy to 45 million.

haku
16-01-2007, 23:04
The situation is not too bad in France, the birth rate is currently 1.94 per woman and rising, there are good indications it'll go back over 2.0 pretty soon.Well, it's done. The INSEE (http://www.insee.fr/fr/recensement/nouv_recens/resultats/france.htm) (French national stat administration) has published today the demographic results for 2006, and the birth rate is back over 2.0!

The French population has gained 394,000 people in 2006 and is now of 63.4 million.

300,000 are from natural growth (830,000 births, 530,000 deaths)
94,000 are from net immigration
(source (http://www.insee.fr/fr/ffc/chifcle_fiche.asp?ref_id=NATTEF02133&tab_id=23))

The INSEE is still projecting the French population to reach 75 million by mid century (with a birth rate peaking at 2.1).

Valito
30-01-2007, 22:40
a little OT, at least for what was being discussed. With all due respect, meaning no offense of any kind, what do you think of those people who lately have been sleeping in tents alongside the Avenue des Champs Elysées (sorry if it's bad spelled, I don't speak French :o )? I've heard about the problem, but lost track and now I don't know if it was worked out or what. Can it be they were called Les Enfants de Don Quichotte? (Again sorry if it's bad spelled)

PS: Good news about the birth rate, at last!

haku
01-02-2007, 18:05
what do you think of those people who lately have been sleeping in tents alongside the Avenue des Champs Elysées? I've heard about the problem, but lost track and now I don't know if it was worked out or what. Can it be they were called Les Enfants de Don Quichotte?
Yeah, it's Les Enfants de Don Quichotte (http://www.lesenfantsdedonquichotte.com/), it's an association that defends homeless people, they've put red tents for homeless people in Paris and many other cities as a form of protest.
I think it's a good idea (most French people support the protest), it highlights an outrageous problem, nobody should be homeless in a country like France, and since we are in a presidential campaign, it's the right time to make that kind of protest to get the attention of politicians and especially presidential candidates.
Things are already moving on the political side because of the public pressure, in the end we should obtain a right to free housing for the poorest people who otherwise would end up in the street, just like the right to free medical care that already exists.

the unforgiven
01-02-2007, 18:15
yup there's some tents on La place Bellecour in Lyon too
I agree, it's a great idea ... especially cuz' it's winter and homeless people are dying outside
it's heartbreaking to see people suffers

Valito
04-02-2007, 18:25
Yeah, it's Les Enfants de Don Quichotte (http://www.lesenfantsdedonquichotte.com/), it's an association that defends homeless people, they've put red tents for homeless people in Paris and many other cities as a form of protest.
I think it's a good idea (most French people support the protest), it highlights an outrageous problem, nobody should be homeless in a country like France, and since we are in a presidential campaign, it's the right time to make that kind of protest to get the attention of politicians and especially presidential candidates.
Things are already moving on the political side because of the public pressure, in the end we should obtain a right to free housing for the poorest people who otherwise would end up in the street, just like the right to free medical care that already exists.

well when i noticed there wasn't an english version of the website i thought of leaving but then i noticed french is not that different from spanish so in the end i managed to understand a little what was happening. thank u haku!

PS: could someone translate this paragraph to english plz? im translating a song and theres this french part which i dont completely get...

Quand tu me prend dans tes bas
Quand je regarde dans tes yeux
Je vois que dieu existe
C´ est pas dur croire

it's a shakira's song, en tus pupilas (in your pupils), im uploading the album and i know ppl are looking for translations because the album is full in spanish so im working on that!

haku
04-02-2007, 18:31
I don't know the song, but i'm guessing it's
Quand tu me prends dans tes bras
Quand je regarde dans tes yeux
Je vois que dieu existe
C'est pas dur de croireWhich means:
When you take me in your arms
When i look in your eyes
I see that god exists
It's not hard to believe

forre
04-02-2007, 19:26
Things are already moving on the political side because of the public pressure, in the end we should obtain a right to free housing for the poorest people who otherwise would end up in the street, just like the right to free medical care that already exists.
Then you'll see half of the world invading France legally and illegally as why the hell to work if you can have almost everything for free?

freddie
04-02-2007, 21:28
Then you'll see half of the world invading France legally and illegally as why the hell to work if you can have almost everything for free?

It's not just about France. The idea is that no one should be homeless in the developed world in general. That's the essence of socially developed modern countries - helping the poor. So no one should be moving anywhere. The EU as a whole is striving towards that social utopia in which basic people's needs would be taken care of even if certain people can't afford them on their own.

forre
04-02-2007, 21:47
freddie, I have a perfect understanding that French candidates are trying to promise what they can't fulfill. Anything for a victory. It's a competition after all. Giving homeless free housing is easy. Put the taxes up and here you have your free housing. The question is - what will say the rest of population? Such policy will morally disable the society. Anything for a beautiful word, isn't it?

French presidential campaign is no less pathetic and hilarious than any other's democratic country on this planet. Generally speaking, of course.

freddie
04-02-2007, 23:51
freddie, I have a perfect understanding that French candidates are trying to promise what they can't fulfill. Anything for a victory. It's a competition after all. Giving homeless free housing is easy. Put the taxes up and here you have your free housing. The question is - what will say the rest of population? Such policy will morally disable the society. Anything for a beautiful word, isn't it?

French presidential campaign is no less pathetic and hilarious than any other's democratic country on this planet. Generally speaking, of course.

Oh course. That's why I said it was utopia. Taking all homeless of the streets and offering them normal health care would require enormous tax-paying power. To promise it is populism at it's finest, but then again... it IS something France (and EU as a whole) should be striving for (the goal is unreachable but we can get within reasonable margin of it eventually).

forre
05-02-2007, 00:22
but then again... it IS something France (and EU as a whole) should be striving for (the goal is unreachable but we can get within reasonable margin of it eventually).
As I said above, this policy is very demoralizing. People need jobs. That's what the society should be striving for. I can't get that normal and capable people are homeless. Get them through a free therapy, get them jobs. That's the only way out.

freddie
05-02-2007, 14:26
As I said above, this policy is very demoralizing. People need jobs. That's what the society should be striving for. I can't get that normal and capable people are homeless. Get them through a free therapy, get them jobs. That's the only way out.

I partially agree with that. But on the other had "everyone needs a job no matter how useless it is" is a very communist rhetoric. That's why some people in Vietnam are employed as direction indicators on buses which have busted light direction indicators (the job basically involves rindign on buses and leaning out the exit doors waving their hands in direction the bus is about to turn to warn the passers-by and other motorists. :p)

See what I mean? Sure, find them a job. But a job that's USEFUL. If they work just to feel less useless they're still representing a burnen on society just as they would if they did nothing. Simply 'cause the tax payers give them handouts for jobs that are totally obsolete.

forre
05-02-2007, 14:46
freddie, We have some people who are working overtime. It's all possible to regulate but such government needs a bunch of brainy guys to solve this problem. The guy which describes a working model will be the next Nobel Prize winner. I didn't elaborate on how former socialistic countries solved this - apparently it didn't work that well but the idea of free housing will destroy not only economics but the very core of the society - a competitive spirit. Btw, work should be competitive and shouldn't be guaranteed.

France popped up with revolutionary ideas before, so why not now?

haku
05-02-2007, 19:03
We need a new form of collectivism, right now the world is caught in a crazy wave of ultra capitalism which is only profiting to a tiny group of people.
A country like France used to have a social model, with free medical care for all, free education for all, public services available equally in big cities and small villages, all of that is being destroyed by globalization.
Jobs are being lost every day because big companies delocalize in countries where people are paid only a few euros a day, the lower and middle classes are becoming poorer every year, what used to be free is more and more expensive, public services are being dismantled, this is not a better world.
And one of the reasons why many French people have become eurosceptics is because the EU is no longer doing what it was originally supposed to do, the goal of the EEC was to abolish internal borders but also to strengthen external borders to protect the European social model, now those external borders are wide open to unfair competition from countries where workers are treated like slaves, and that's destroying our social model.
The EU is also pushing to privatize public services like the post office, the electricity company or the train company, what good will it do to give those services to multinationals? Public services are meant to serve the public equally, not to generate profits for a small group of people. The EU doesn't need dozens of post offices, electricity companies or train companies competing with each other, just like with the European contral bank, the EU needs a European central post office, a European central electricity company and a European central train company with a monopoly over the EU market to offer a cheap and equal service to all EU citizens.
Capitalism has gone too far, and all it's doing is making rich people even richer.

freddie
06-02-2007, 01:28
freddie, We have some people who are working overtime. It's all possible to regulate but such government needs a bunch of brainy guys to solve this problem. The guy which describes a working model will be the next Nobel Prize winner. I didn't elaborate on how former socialistic countries solved this - apparently it didn't work that well but the idea of free housing will destroy not only economics but the very core of the society - a competitive spirit. Btw, work should be competitive and shouldn't be guaranteed.

France popped up with revolutionary ideas before, so why not now?

I understand your point. However there'll always be at least some people who'll be obsolete. You can't have 100% employment in a non-planned economy and still expect to make a profit. That's utopic to expect.

Jobs are being lost every day because big companies delocalize in countries where people are paid only a few euros a day

What you're describing is outsourcing. It's not's not uncommon in a free market. Companies find themselves in a competitive environment where their only objective is to survive. Outsourcing is just a neccesary evil which helps achieving that goal. What helps is restructuring the economy, concentrating on high-tech and exploring new technologies rather than relying on old manufacturing traditions, which can be done much cheaper in emerging markets. You just can't have a free trade orientated economy without outsourcing except through means of strict goverment interventioninism. What would that bring you eventually though? Nothing but stagnation (compared to other markets which do take advantage of free trade principles). And that'd consequently make lower classes worse off than they are now.

The EU is also pushing to privatize public services like the post office, the electricity company or the train company, what good will it do to give those services to multinationals? Public services are meant to serve the public equally, not to generate profits for a small group of people.

Similar argument. Studies show that public services are best managed in a competitive environment - when they're run as normal companies. Much better than having a national monopoly. Numerous companies have to offer the same service. That will make them compete and through competition they'll be forced to offer lower prices and improved quality of their services. AT&T and it's Baby Bell spin-offs in 1984 are a classic case representing the advantages of competition amongst providers.

haku
16-03-2007, 03:06
France has inaugurated today a new high speed railway line (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6450973.stm) between Paris and Strasbourg. Trains will travel at 320km/h (it's currently 300km/h on other high speed lines). :D

This line will be extended much further since the final plan is to create a Paris-Munich-Vienna-Budapest high speed line.

the unforgiven
16-03-2007, 09:33
I've read in newspaper yesterday that the people complain about the tickets price
cuz' it's more expensive than the other high speed line
I hope it won't be a problem to extend this kind of railway... I mean I hope the price won't turn people into not buying tickets cuz' no ticket sold = no extended railway in my opinion
the SNCF won't bother to make other ones if they can't win money

oh and my brother lives in Strasbourg so it's cool :p

haku
18-03-2007, 23:30
Royal is now including in her program the foundation of a 6th Republic (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-884692,0.html).
Eh, why not, i would welcome a 6th Republic, the 5th Republic has been around long enough already.


The polls can be followed in this neat, regularly updated, interactive graph (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/vi/0,47-0@2-823448,54-848463,0.html), ooooooh, look at them candidates go.

haku
19-03-2007, 20:15
French presidency hopefuls named

Twelve candidates have qualified to run in the French presidential election.
Candidates needed the endorsement of at least 500 elected officials to take part. The first round takes place on 22 April, with a run-off two weeks later.

The frontrunners are currently Nicolas Sarkozy of the ruling centre-right UMP, Socialist candidate Segolene Royal and centrist politician Francois Bayrou.

Anti-globalisation activist Jose Bove is also in the race, as is far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen.

More than 20 politicians had been campaigning before Friday's deadline for registration.

The other successful candidates are:

Marie-George Buffet (head of Communist Party)

Arlette Laguiller (Trotskyist, who first ran in 1974)

Olivier Besancenot (head of Communist Revolutionary League, got 4.25% in 2002)

Dominique Voynet (Green party leader)

Philippe de Villiers (heads far-right Movement for France party)

Frederic Nihous (head of Hunting, Fishing, Nature and Traditions party)

Gerard Schivardi (a leftist, anti-EU mayor).

Both Mr Le Pen and Mr Besancenot called the system of collecting signatures "undemocratic", as they had struggled to get enough endorsements.

A second round of voting, two weeks after the first round, is almost certain to be needed, as no candidate is likely to win an outright majority in the first round.

Opinion polls show Mr Bayrou catching up with Mr Sarkozy and Ms Royal.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6468249.stm)

the unforgiven
30-03-2007, 19:12
hey frenchies :p
I just wanna know what do you think about the violent conflict which took place at the parisian train station la gare du Nord this week?

just a short summary about the situation, for the ones who are not aware of that
some dude got arrested pretty violently by cops because he didn't pay his subway ticket and gave a headshot to a RATP (Paris bus company) agent
the policemen were violent and people around got "wild", there was a kind of riot and now it's like everywhere in french newspaper

my opinion : this is bullsh*t! lol I mean come on, the guy who got arrested injured someone
I'm not for the violence or something, I think cops have to be able to do their job without being violent but it's not like they're evil
it's pissing me off how people can be hypocrit about this event
they're all blaming Sarkozy
I'm maybe paranoid but this event plus the arrestation of the chinese dude make me think that it's so settled to get rid of Sarko for the presidential elections, or the contrary :confused:
I don't know what to think

haku
30-03-2007, 19:57
First of all, if you don't pay your ticket, you get kicked out of the train, that's normal, and if you attack the train controller, you get arrested, that's normal too. So personally i completely blame the original troublemaker, what the RATP and the police did is totally normal (especially since the guy was already a registered offender with 22 offences).

Now for the riot itself, well, Gare du Nord is a place where many "gang members" hang out, they saw an opportunity to cause trouble and rob a few stores. A few of those gang members saw the original incident, they called/texted their buddies on their cell phones and there you go, in no time you have a hundred thugs rioting all over the place.

I don't know if that kind of riots are done to weaken Sarkozy, but i'm sure of one thing, it's going to do just the opposite, Sarkozy (and Le Pen) are going to climb in the polls after that kind of events, because most French people are fed up with that kind of rioters, they want order, and they're going to vote for the candidates who promise to be strict on people who break the law.

the unforgiven
30-03-2007, 20:15
First of all, if you don't pay your ticket, you get kicked out of the train, that's normal, and if you attack the train controller, you get arrested, that's normal too. So personally i completely blame the original troublemaker, what the RATP and the police did is totally normal (especially since the guy was already a registered offender with 22 offences).
I totally agree
people get offended but, wth? we need to be respectful and so on! we have to teach it to our children (lol I sound old :p ) and media are like making excuses to justify that the guy didn't deserve that ... ok he may not deserved the violent part but he deserved to be arrested
there's a huge problem with cops' attitude lately and sometimes it's "normal" but this event is, for me, a perfect example which says "you can do whatever you want because media will always 'protect' you and blame the politics"

nath
30-03-2007, 20:17
Haku, I was about to answer but you did it before and in expressing in a great way what I think.

I absolutely agree with you.

And I personally think that France as a big big problem these last times.
Because "in the name of Freedom", a lot of people feel themselves oblige to caution such acts which are just criminal acts and against Law.

And I'm very worry about this fact that to fight the French Police , to spit to the face of Police becomes "a kind of heroic act, for the name of Freedom".....

I'm absolutely sad and upset about this very state of mind which is against the bases of our society: laws were thought and are made to be respected for the good of each one.
If something seems unfair or seems to be not conformed to the Human rights, we have in our country: trials and a powerful free press to try to make improve the situation.

But Violence in such situations......it always finishes by broken shop windows and steals...is just manifestation of criminal people which is "used" ...(and that 's the worse, from my point of view,) by associations or politicians as the testimony of "racism", bad treatment of strangers in France ...and so on...

It's just disgusting.

we have to teach it to our children (lol I sound old ) and media are like making excuses to justify that the guy didn't deserve that ... ok he may not deserved the violent part but he deserved to be arrested
Just this morning, i've heard in "France-Info" the speach of a guy who is a kind of director in a center for the rehabilitation of young delinquants:
"We receive a lot of young delinquants who arrive in our establishment with the label of "guilty"....and indeed they are just "victims" of the society"....

Okay, okay......so i'm going to break cars just for my own pleasure of getting free money easely, and I hope that I will be considered after as a "Victim of the society"....:blabla:

How could think evoluate in a correct way , with a such state of mind?....

Okay , they've made bad actions....it would be a great thing that they could continue their live after that...but they have to realize that they've made bad actions....
But no....the fashion is to say...."it isn't your fault..."....

That's just simply CRAZY!

the unforgiven
30-03-2007, 21:10
nath, I totally agree with you! when you're an adult you have to deal with the consequences
I can understand that sometimes you make bad things as a kid just to follow the leaders you know
but breaking the laws and getting arrested is completely different ;)
people are pissing me off, they're searching excuses where there's none

Arnaudfrenchy
03-04-2007, 12:34
574,8 km/h guys !

Just remember that !

Champagne ! :coctail:

the unforgiven
03-04-2007, 13:07
Arnaudfrenchy, what are you talking about? éclaire ma lanterne stp
I so don't get it why are you posting that everywhere? lol

Arnaudfrenchy
03-04-2007, 13:30
The world record of biggest speed with a TGV on the New East Line of France. :)

haku
03-04-2007, 16:30
574,8 km/h guys !

Just remember that !

Champagne ! :coctail::coctail:

Here's the BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6521295.stm) with pictures. I've read that they got close to 600km/h in preliminary tests so i think they have some room to beat the record again in a few years. :D

haku
06-04-2007, 19:50
Two men who disappeared in the jungle of Guiana (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6533189.stm) almost a month ago and were thought dead, have reappeared yesterday.
That's quite a hike they got there. :laugh:
Seriously though, either they're very lucky or they have great survival instincts.

That's why i stay in Normandy, you can't get lost in the jungle. :p

the unforgiven
06-04-2007, 20:04
omg! that's amazing ... I mean for them, it's a happy ending
they're survivors, seriously it's really impressive
their valentine's date turned out wrong lol

That's why i stay in Normandy, you can't get lost in the jungle
lmao! at least you can get lost in a bush *lame joke*

haku
07-04-2007, 20:26
at least you can get lost in a bushLOL, i prefer mowed areas. :gigi:


Anyway, back to elections, i've just received my voting card, i was starting to wonder if they had forgotten me, lol. :p

Latest polls (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/vi/0,47-0@2-823448,54-848463,0.html), except for Bayrou who's made a spectacular rise in the last 3 months, things are pretty stable. Only 2 weeks left to go now.

nath
07-04-2007, 20:38
May be Bayrou will be a surprise in the results because, around me, each time I've asked to my socialist friends for who they will vote...without exception, they were all answering Bayrou...just because they have "big problems" to bear Ségolène Royal.

It's a fact that we are still an enough machist country so...to get a woman as a President...not for fun, but for real, is already a big...shock....changement...but...it's true that Ségolène Royal isn't just a woman....she is a special woman...who can seduce some by her "spontaneous" attitude....but who can irritate others by her kind of ...."empty program" behind her declarations which try to be close to the French daily life...
I mean, she doesn't seem very powerful when precise questions about economy are asked to her...

And even if , we, French, are a little bit tired about the usual traditional political language, we can't say she is the best about diplomacy sometimes...

So it will be interesting because the results could be very tight.

haku
07-04-2007, 22:42
I've always liked Bayrou and the UDF party. First of all they've always supported the reunification of Normandy, which is very important for me locally (i always vote UDF in regional and local elections just for that). UDF is also a pro-European party and that's also very important for me, an autonomous Normandy in a federal Europe is my political ideal and UDF is the closest thing i can find (among major parties) to my ideas.
So yeah, i'll probably vote Bayrou in the first round, and hopefully he'll make it to the second round (though i don't have much hopes for that).

And even if Bayrou doesn't make it, i hope UDF will be able to secure a good percentage in the next National Assembly, i think it would be a good thing to have an important centrist party that forces the main party in power (PS or UMP) to compromise to get majority votes in the Assembly.


As for Ségolène Royal, she's special indeed, her ideas are way too vague for my taste, there are many areas where we still don't really know what she thinks, she's very conservative for a socialist, and her latest "ultra-nationalist" speeches about the flag and anthem have completely annoyed me (some old socialists must have been rolling in their graves).
I so wish the PS had chosen Dominique Strauss-Khan instead of her.

the unforgiven
07-04-2007, 23:43
i've just received my voting card, i was starting to wonder if they had forgotten me
me too I've received it yesterday, with a brand new design and a nice "ministère de l'intérieur *coughsvoteforSarkocoughs*" on it lol <--- another lame joke

in my opinion, Bayrou is a "condorcet" (I don't know if it's the same word in english) and if he manages to get into the second round I think he will win
let's imagine a Sarko-Bayrou I guess every socialists, or most of them, will vote for Bayrou
and a Royal-Bayrou I guess that the UMP supporters will vote Bayrou

it's not that I don't like Ségolène but I find her annoying in the way she talks, she seems to have a hole between her 2 ears
no offence but sometimes I wonder if she realises that she's not credible
I fear she might not be strong enough to run a country, especially in the international way
it's confusing for me

UDF is also a pro-European party and that's also very important for me
same here
I think Europe is very important and it's a shame that people don't really get that

btw, it would be my first vote for a president, hehe I'm exciting :p
and it's always hard because I'm still young and I don't have any politic conviction yet you know, I mean I don't have any attached party and sometimes it's difficult to make a good choice
the only thing I'm sure about is that I prefer dying (ok maybe not ... but losing my 2 legs for sure) than vote for the FN, which is a pretty good thing

my post is pretty long hehe! bisous to all of you who read that to the end :kwink:

nath
08-04-2007, 07:37
her ideas are way too vague for my taste
I absolutely agree...
there are many areas where we still don't really know what she thinks
I'm not so sure that she really knows it , herself: she seems to have "vague general ideas" but nothing seems serious and built behind..
and her latest "ultra-nationalist" speeches about the flag and anthem have completely annoyed me (some old socialists must have been rolling in their graves).
Not only, the Old Socialist in their graves were shocked...I have firends from the Right Side who were laughing during 2 months , just in imagining each French singing "La Marseillaise" , each morning, face to its mirror, just after having brused its teeth!!:rolleyes:
Morever, I think that the lyrics of this song should be modifyed....because, when you have to little kiddies who have 6, 7 years old: "Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons......soutiens nos bras vengeurs...."...it a little bloodie, bloodie.....
so wish the PS had chosen Dominique Strauss-Khan instead of her.
Yep, it would have given a more serious and convaincing image of this party.

I don't have my card, yet....because I'm still voting in another area, where is my mum living...so papers are in her mail box...

I'll vote Nicolas Sarkozy....hihi....*runs away*;)

I don't like Bayrou as a person.
Now he plays the Union guy, with very good intentions but I remind him when he was Nationa Education Ministry.
He was Horrible: just Pure Authority without any negociations, just I've decided that , you have just to obey.
He was arrogant and very pretencious.
I don't believe to miracles and that a such charactere could change suddendly.

But indeed, all our main leaders were with a "over-dimentioned" ego....
French love such characteres that they assimilate to strengh...

and they can't bear, people, who, instead of their own/personal Glory, prefer the Love, the Good FOR their Country ...
I 'm thinking here about such persons as Bérégovoy, Delors, Barre or Balladur...

Haku, what is this story about Independency of Normandy?...
I've been in Normandy, spending there fullmonths , since I'm a kiddie and I've never heard about it before to meet you...
Monday, I come back in Normandy....so I'll try to ask to the paysans around what they think about the next independency of Normandy....;)

the unforgiven
08-04-2007, 13:22
I don't like Bayrou as a person.
Now he plays the Union guy, with very good intentions but I remind him when he was Nationa Education Ministry.
He was Horrible: just Pure Authority without any negociations, just I've decided that , you have just to obey.
He was arrogant and very pretencious.
I don't believe to miracles and that a such charactere could change suddendly.
I wasn't aware of that
few months ago, I've read that he was one of the few who managed not to be kicked off from his ministry etc etc, implying that he was a good minister
but I'm sure you know better about the educationnal situation than a journalist
according to what I've read, Bayrou was the chatting type and took well-thought decisions
and you're saying that he was a kind of despot ... amazing how media can change the facts
omg! it's confusing

I can't wait to receive every electoral programs in my mailbox
because the more I try to read on the web, newspapers and watch the news the more I get confused and it's kind of frustrating grr grr

haku
08-04-2007, 17:05
Haku, what is this story about Independency of Normandy?...
I've been in Normandy, spending there fullmonths , since I'm a kiddie and I've never heard about it before to meet you...
Monday, I come back in Normandy....so I'll try to ask to the paysans around what they think about the next independency of Normandy....;)Oh i didn't say "independant", i said "autonomous", like Catalonia, Scotland, or any German lander for example, and i don't support that for only Normandy but for all French regions, i wouldn't want Normandy to have a special status or anything, all French regions should have the same status.

My model is German landers really, i think each French region should have a regional parliament and government (departements would be abolished) that would be in charge of everything close to people's lives (transports, education, health, etc). I think regions would be a much more efficient scale to deal with local issues than a centralized administration in Paris.
My general idea is a federal France in a federal Europe, as supported by the federalist party (http://www.parti-federaliste.fr/fr/02_propo.php).

I actually think that both the PS and UMP intend to give much more powers to regions in the near future. Sarkozy himself tried to create an autonomous Corsica a few years ago, the project planned to abolish Corsican departements and to create a single executive and legislative body for the island (exactly what i suppport for all French regions), the project failed but i think Sarkozy was testing his ideas for what he wants for the future of regions.


Anyway, the most urgent thing for Normandy is reunification because the more powers regions get and the most difficult reunification will be. The current division between Haute and Basse is ridiculous and has no historical basis, and a very large majority of Normans support reunification.
Une Seule Normandie (http://uneseulenormandie.org/), great site.
Association pour la Reunification de la Normandie (http://udf76.typepad.fr/le_blog_de_ludf_seinemari/2007/03/lassociation_po.html), Pierre Albertini (UDF), mayor of Rouen, is a member. :kawai:
Reunification Normandie (http://www.reunification-normandie.com/), petition.

Interestingly, Basse and Haute Normandy have a single tourism commity (http://www.lanormandiesedecouvre.com/) website, and that's how everything should be. :yes:

nath
09-04-2007, 07:10
Haku,...here no provocation from my part...but if I understand well, ...would it be a kind of mini United-States about the structure?

Anaïs, No...I don't say Press lies.
Perhaps, I was a little hard in using these words: "Authority without any negotiations, just I've decided that , you have just to obey."...
Indeed, I began to be teacher in 93, when he was ministry and it's true that we got a lot of meetings between teachers to answer to several "questionnaires" to built the new programs of National Education....
But as usual, it was just a lost of time...because it hasn't changed anything...I think all those documents went to the bin....
And it's better that I don't begin to speak about National Education Programs...because...it's crazy....:(

But, I remember very well the interview I was speaking about and I still think that bayrou isn't the negotiation guy, very peaceful, when he is faced to contestation...
I was very shocked by his tone and the expression of his face, at this time...

Here an interview of the singer Diam's:
http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/politiques/elections2007/246190.FR.php

I love absolutely this reason to not vote for Sarkozy:
"Enfin, la redevance télé. Le truc con qu'on a essayé de magouiller toute notre vie, et maintenant on n'a plus le choix. Franchement, payer pour la télé, c'est comme si je payais un impôt pour aller à Euro Disney... Toutes ces petites choses font que Sarkozy, je l'ai détesté avec le temps."
I really wonder if the word "citizen" shouldn't be erased from the dictionary to fit to the new generation of Frenchs...
Still the same problem: I just want the advantages from the Society,not the duties..

This morning, as I live face to a school,I saw the posters of all the candidates on panels....:)

the unforgiven
09-04-2007, 12:19
nath, thanks for the explanation
I will dig on this part of Bayrou that I really don't know about (in 1993 I was 6 lol)

anyway, Diam's omg! I really don't like her tssk tssk

"En province, c'est complètement différent, ils n'ont pas de gare du Nord. Alors ils voient sur les écrans une immense gare avec des gens qui se bagarrent, ça leur fait peur, ils n'ont pas envie que ça arrive chez eux. Je comprends que ça puisse fausser leur jugement."
few lines after : "C'est voyager qui m'a fait ouvrir les yeux."
*applauses*
she's full of stereotype about "la province" and she dares to say that she understands people from their... she really needs to travel to open her eyes, maybe not to the same places lol

seriously, this woman is pissing me off
my town used to be a "dangerous" place and we still have a violent area, I know that every young is not bad even if he/she's dressing like a "racaille" but some of them attack people just for fun and after that they're saying that they are the victims because the society doesn't help them!
I know that there's discrimination and so on, but people who deny their responsabilities are hypocrit and a bunch of cowards
what Diam's say is a great illustation of "vouloir le beurre et l'argent du beurre"

haku
09-04-2007, 20:47
Haku,...here no provocation from my part...but if I understand well, ...would it be a kind of mini United-States about the structure?It's no provocation, i admire the federal structure of the US, it's one thing i do like. But the US federalism is more my model for the European Union than France itself.

I support the creation of a European federation with a federal government in charge of foreign policy, defense, global commerce, etc, pretty much like the US government, i also support the creation of European public services like a European electricity company, a European mail service, a European rail company, etc, because i don't think the rule of capitalism and competition is a good thing in all areas.

So if you compare to the US, it's France that would be more or less the equivalent of a US state, not French regions, regions would have much less power than a US state, regions would be in charge of what matters to people's everyday life, like roads, public transports, schools, hospitals, waste management, environment…
We're not so far from it today actually, the first step would be to abolish departements and to transfer their powers to the regions, second step would be to create a regional executive council separate from the regional assembly (to have a seperation of powers and democratic control), pretty much like what Corsica (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivité_territoriale_de_Corse) already has today.

For me regional autonomy goes hand in hand with European integration, reinforced regional powers must be balanced by reinforced European powers, each with distinct and complementary responsibilities.

freddie
09-04-2007, 20:51
Guys how about translating those french setences for us less fortunate non vulgaric latin speaking folks, who're also interested in french politics? Babblefish makes a complete hash of it. :p

I support the creation of a European federation with a federal government in charge of foreign policy, defense, global commerce, etc, pretty much like the US government, i also support the creation of European public services like a European electricity company, a European mail service, a European rail company, etc, because i don't think the rule of capitalism and competition is a good thing in all areas.

European public services? Yeiks. That reminds me of Soviet style People's Steel factories. I think mail delivery and railroad companies in particular are much too developed in a private sector to enforce a continental reign over it (huge US corporate players in the package delivery service who'd surely file a complaint with the WTO.) I still firmly believe there's nothing wrong with competition since it's been know to lower prices and raise quality of service. Otherwise I agree in principle with the European federation idea, eventhough it'll be extremely hard to maintain in practice. For one thing I can never imagine countries like France or Britain going along with it.

haku
09-04-2007, 23:08
European public services? Yeiks. That reminds me of Soviet style People's Steel factories. I think mail delivery and railroad companies in particular are much too developed in a private sector to enforce a continental reign over it (huge US corporate players in the package delivery service who'd surely file a complaint with the WTO.) I still firmly believe there's nothing wrong with competition since it's been know to lower prices and raise quality of service.I think many former communist countries have "thrown the baby with the bath water" as we say in French, many are now engaged on an ultra-capitalistic road where everything must be private and competition absolute. Good for them, but i don't agree with that socio-economic model based on the American one.

For me "public service" is not an insult or an archaism, offering an equal and affordable service to everybody whether they live in a large city or a small town is something Europe should strive for. I don't believe that competition and profits always make things better (Paris subway is not profitable and never will be, and yet it's a great public service that nobody would want to see closed because it's not profitable), and i certainly don't believe that competition is the best answer to everything.

Mail delivery. You can't have several post offices owned by different companies in every city, town and village. You can't have several mailmen competing every morning to deliver mail in your mailbox. Mail delivery is for me an area where a public service is logical and more efficent.

Electricity. Look at California, electricity production is completely private there and competition has led to a total lack of investment and long term planning, resulting in a worn-out network and frequent blackouts (to the point that many businesses have built their own in-house power generators, which is an environmental nightmare).
In France, the state-owned EDF has been able to plan over decades and has built an efficient modern network, and electricity is cheaper than in most neighboring countries. Also, i support nuclear energy because i think it's a good way to limit global warming, but i wouldn't want private nuclear plants.

Railroad. Look at Britain and its completely private railroad, it's a total disaster, private companies have been solely focused on maximizing profits, the result is a decaying network with no long-term investment and planning. The only high speed lane has been built because of the Channel tunnel and it has taken *15 years* to build only *120km* of tracks between the tunnel and London.
In France, the state-owned SNCF has built close to 2000km of high speed lanes in 25 years and we have now high speed trains linking all major cities. If the French railroad had been privatized like in Britain, we wouldn't have a high speed network today.

I do support full competition in most areas (i'm against public funding of French cinema for example, if it's not good enough to compete, then it should disappear), but there are a few areas that require long-term planning and don't generate immediate profits even though it's useful to millions of people (like a high speed rail network or an electricity grid) and private companies are simply not interested in doing things that would benefit millions of people if it doesn't generate immediately huge profits for their shareholders.

haku
10-04-2007, 00:07
Sorry for double post, but my previous post would become too heavy.

Otherwise I agree in principle with the European federation idea, eventhough it'll be extremely hard to maintain in practice. For one thing I can never imagine countries like France or Britain going along with it.Maybe Britain, but don't be so sure about France (and a European federation could start with half a dozen states, so the usual brooding of Britain is not a problem).

Segolene Royal's program includes the "creation of a European government for the eurozone states"

Nicholas Sarkozy's program includes the "creation of a European president and foreign affairs minister" and the "development of a European defense"

Furthermore, right or left, the main French parties have already mentioned that eventually:
The EU should have a permanent seat at the UN instead of France
The French nuclear arsenal should be transfered to a European defense

freddie
10-04-2007, 23:23
I think many former communist countries have "thrown the baby with the bath water" as we say in French, many are now engaged on an ultra-capitalistic road where everything must be private and competition absolute. Good for them, but i don't agree with that socio-economic model based on the American one.

For me "public service" is not an insult or an archaism, offering an equal and affordable service to everybody whether they live in a large city or a small town is something Europe should strive for. I don't believe that competition and profits always make things better (Paris subway is not profitable and never will be, and yet it's a great public service that nobody would want to see closed because it's not profitable), and i certainly don't believe that competition is the best answer to everything.

Mail delivery. You can't have several post offices owned by different companies in every city, town and village. You can't have several mailmen competing every morning to deliver mail in your mailbox. Mail delivery is for me an area where a public service is logical and more efficent.

Electricity. Look at California, electricity production is completely private there and competition has led to a total lack of investment and long term planning, resulting in a worn-out network and frequent blackouts (to the point that many businesses have built their own in-house power generators, which is an environmental nightmare).
In France, the state-owned EDF has been able to plan over decades and has built an efficient modern network, and electricity is cheaper than in most neighboring countries. Also, i support nuclear energy because i think it's a good way to limit global warming, but i wouldn't want private nuclear plants.

Railroad. Look at Britain and its completely private railroad, it's a total disaster, private companies have been solely focused on maximizing profits, the result is a decaying network with no long-term investment and planning. The only high speed lane has been built because of the Channel tunnel and it has taken *15 years* to build only *120km* of tracks between the tunnel and London.
In France, the state-owned SNCF has built close to 2000km of high speed lanes in 25 years and we have now high speed trains linking all major cities. If the French railroad had been privatized like in Britain, we wouldn't have a high speed network today.

I do support full competition in most areas (i'm against public funding of French cinema for example, if it's not good enough to compete, then it should disappear), but there are a few areas that require long-term planning and don't generate immediate profits even though it's useful to millions of people (like a high speed rail network or an electricity grid) and private companies are simply not interested in doing things that would benefit millions of people if it doesn't generate immediately huge profits for their shareholders.


But see I'm not saying private companies should automatically exclude government interventionism in general. Not when it comes to fiddling with the prices but rather ensuring quality of service (massively important in transport safety). But I still think most fears of private companies only being interested in profits is redundant - as long as there's competition people can CHOOSE. And if they don't like the quality of service they can easily go elsewhere. California example is exactly the opposite: it's a case of a dominant provider with no competition - and partly also a consequence of Enron faul business tactics. And the British railroads in general have loads of other - bigger - problems than them being privatized.


Maybe Britain, but don't be so sure about France (and a European federation could start with half a dozen states, so the usual brooding of Britain is not a problem).

Segolene Royal's program includes the "creation of a European government for the eurozone states"

Nicholas Sarkozy's program includes the "creation of a European president and foreign affairs minister" and the "development of a European defense"

Furthermore, right or left, the main French parties have already mentioned that eventually:
The EU should have a permanent seat at the UN instead of France
The French nuclear arsenal should be transfered to a European defense

Those are all noble ideas and I'll be the first one to stand up in applause if they come true. There's just so many diplomatic obstacles to tackle before it can come to fruition. We're talking about a country who said no to the European Constitution on a referendum. A country where many politicians still score points on blatant nationalism. And it's not like France is an isolated case.
If anything I think the political unification might be slightly easier to achieve at first. Compromising over military matters is always the most sensitive issue.

haku
12-04-2007, 00:01
Those are all noble ideas and I'll be the first one to stand up in applause if they come true. There's just so many diplomatic obstacles to tackle before it can come to fruition. We're talking about a country who said no to the European Constitution on a referendum. A country where many politicians still score points on blatant nationalism. And it's not like France is an isolated case.
If anything I think the political unification might be slightly easier to achieve at first. Compromising over military matters is always the most sensitive issue.A 'no' to the EU constitution doesn't mean a 'no' to European integration, there were many different reasons why people voted no.

True, the extreme right voted 'no' because it is really anti-European, but the extreme left voted 'no' because it considered that the treaty didn't go far enough in terms of integration (neo-trotskists basically want a new Soviet Union), and the large majority of 'no' voters actually came from the socialist side from people who thought the treaty was no constitution at all and was only a treaty that reinforced capitalism against socialism without giving any powers to a real (democratically elected) central European government.
So no, a majority of the people who voted 'no' did not reject European integration, they actually did so because they wanted a deeper and more radical integration.

The root of the problem is that many French people (and also Belgian, Dutch, German) think that the European project has lost its political goal and is slowly evolving into a loose free trade area based on the Anglo-Saxon model. People were supportive of the European project as long as it meant the abolition of internal borders balanced by the strengthening of external borders to protect the European social model and secularism from the rest of the world, but globalization has ruined that principle.

Jean Monnet and Robert Schuman (founders of the European communities) had expected that economic integration would lead automatically to political integration, but obviously that plan did not really work (well, maybe it would work after 100 or 200 years but can we really wait that long when we have to face the US and new rising powers like China, India or Brazil, i don't think so).
So now in France there are a number of intellectuals who say that now may be the time to go back to the drawing board and start something new from scratch, starting with political union this time, by creating a true federation with the countries that would be willing to take that radical step. And not just in France, the Belgian prime minister Guy Verhofstadt said the same thing in his last book, the United States of Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Europe#Guy_Verhofstadt).

freddie
12-04-2007, 10:04
Like I said I'm all for deeper integration on every level - political, social and economic. But I still feel the short term plan for political integration is too ambitious, cause it fails to incorporate teh nationalistic aspects of member states into play. Even if France is all eager to join such a tight-knit community (of which I also have my doubts of), I'm really sure there're a whole bunch of other members who'll consider any talk of a proper continental federation an assault on their national soverignty (and when I say other members I mean pretty much all old members and probably Poland).

I'd take it slow first. Lets complete the economic integration first - free labour movement for one thing. Then lets wait for the new member states to economically recover properly. I doubt a federation would ever maintain proper functionality when a person in Romania or Bulgaria earns 200 instead of 2000 Euros as in developed countries.

haku
13-04-2007, 00:41
For French people, a nice interactive chart (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/vi/0,47-0@2-823448,54-883898,0.html) with the programs of the various candidates.

Sunrider
18-04-2007, 14:56
That's a nice chart. :)

Personally I despise Sarkozy and his crypto-fascist ways. On the other hand I don't like Royal, I don't trust her, and I don't believe she realises that it's the socialist party she's running for. She's about ten years late with her "third way" ideals.

So what's a sozi like me gotta do then? Well, if I was still in France, I would vote for Arlette.

Travailleurs, travailleuses! Consider me a fan! :D

nath
18-04-2007, 15:22
Personally I despise Sarkozy and his crypto-fascist ways
On which bases do you discribe Sarkozy as a "crypto-fascist "?
Except the fact that it's an habit in France to call all people who belong to Right as Fascists...

In which country are you living if I'm not too curious?...

the unforgiven
18-04-2007, 16:14
Personally I despise Sarkozy and his crypto-fascist ways.
funny cuz I had a conversation about that with a friend 4 hours ago
and I personally don't think that Sarko is a fascist, even if I don't know how to explain it ;)

anyway, this friend of mine recommends me to listen to some podcats from RMC
so here's the link (http://rmc.fr/index.php?id=262&idemission=38) if you're interesting too

Sunrider
18-04-2007, 17:25
On which bases do you discribe Sarkozy as a "crypto-fascist "?
Except the fact that it's an habit in France to call all people who belong to Right as Fascists...

In which country are you living if I'm not too curious?...


Oh that's nonsense, I'd never call Chirac a fascist, and he's a right-winger.

Sarkozy's platform feeds on anti-immigration sentiment, without even trying to look at the reasons for the problems in the banlieues. He feeds off this negative sentiment, and the fear for islam of the general populace.

During the 2005 civil unrest, he, as interior minister of the entire french population, SHOULD have tried to calm down the situation; instead, to Sarko, it served as a launching pad for hiis political campaign for president, by describing the protestors as a "rabble" and calling for the troubled suburbs to be "Karcherised".

It's a reality though, that in France, like in much of Europe, children who are born in a suburb simply get no chances to build a better life for themselves. They get no chances for a good education, or a job. Even when they get an education, do you think a lot of people with an arabic or african appearance get a fair shot at a job? That's just naive. Sarkozy, however, does not care about improving the lives of these millions of frustrated people; he just wants to clean his country. While playing on these sentiments however, he tries to make his platform look like a classic rightist one. FN, with a human face, if you will.

The success of this method has apparently even influenced le pen to give his own platform a more human face. It's still junk, though.

Another thing that greatly worries me about Sarkozy is the fact that he is not a great believer in laïcité, which I think is one of the greatest things about French political culture.

I would like to point out though, that I, at no point, said "Sarkozy is a fascist". What I said was "I despise Sarkozy and his crypto-fascist ways"; it may look, and sound similar, but there is a subtle difference here.

To answer your other question, I live in the Netherlands. My father is mixed French/Russian, my mother is French. I was born in France and moved to the Netherlands when I was a child, but I still visit relatives in France several times a year, read French newspapers, watch French tv etc.

the unforgiven
18-04-2007, 18:21
children who are born in a suburb simply get no chances to build a better life for themselves
it could sound hard but some of them just don't want to try to do something with their lives, they're just acting like a bunch of w*nkers and play the victims of the society card when it's needed
really no offence, I'm aware of discrimination, I know some guys who used to be the men in their neighboorhood and now they really want to make something else, to find a job etc etc
and it's really good ... but I also see the opposite and it sucks

about the 2005 riots, I know someone who was a victim of it, he lives in La Duchère, disctrict well-known in Lyon to be pretty violent and so on, his car got fired and his insurance didn't cover this kind of accident
he simply looked for the ones who made that, they were actually a bunch of 16-17 years old, he threatened them and made them pay for what they did ... this guy is black and he's built like a bulldozer, I really think that these teens wouldn't give a damn if it hadn't been the case

ok, maybe, you don't see my point but I'm trying to say that some teens don't realise the consequences of their acts because nobody chase after them to make them pay or feel guilty
and it's unacceptable to go on like that! I know it sounds rude, but people have to assume their acts
I'm sure it's easier to find a job when your police record is clean
it's really pissing me off when people say that they don't wanna try because they're from suburbs and they don't have any chance no matter what happen
there's always exceptions, and we have to stand together to change that state of mind

btw, I'm not sure that the pseudo US capitalist project that Sarko proposes is the best way to solve this kind of problems but who knows? Ségolène's boot camps don't sound better ... :blabla:

spyretto
18-04-2007, 18:24
So who won? Le Pen or somebody else :p

PowerPuff Grrl
18-04-2007, 18:35
ok, maybe, you don't see my point but I'm trying to say that some teens don't realise the consequences of their acts because nobody chase after them to make them pay or feel guilty
and it's unacceptable to go on like that!

I'll admit ignorance in French affairs but going by this, wouldn't it be the failure of the state to prosecute these individuals. I mean if there is no law and order, or any constant police presence in these suburbs (God, that has a totally different meaning here, it's kinda funny actually) then how do you expect criminals to behave like?

Perhaps immigrants are frustrated that they are painted in the same brush as criminals who are also immigrants.
:dknow:

Re: Le Pen
Good God don't me that guy is actually getting support.

PS: Royale sounds like an idiot, harsh I know, but she does.

nath
18-04-2007, 18:44
Thanks for your clear answer Sunrider.

I absolutely catch your state of mind.
But I don't have the same and I think it's a little bit easy to see people who will vote for him just as simple blind people who hate the immigrants. :)

Anaïs,you've absolutely expressed what I think.
Thanks for that :rose:

the unforgiven
18-04-2007, 18:50
PowerPuff Grrl, I'm not for an individual prosecution, I want the police to do a great job
but I mean some young people don't fear anything! they don't respect authority
for example, in my neighboorhood (which is kind of quiet lol) there's a police patrol everyday and everyday it's the same, kids throw stones on the car etc etc
I remember once I've called the firemen cuz I've found a dude badly injured and inconscient in my street, and the guys who did that were yelling at me in a very not polite way
it's not a big deal, at least for me ... but I think it shows that we need a serious different way to see the problems

oh and btw, when I'm talking about youth it's not immigrants ... actually I didn't think about that at all lol
the trouble makers are from every origins and I don't care about the color of the skin, when you break the law, you break the law ... no matter who you are :p

and yeaaah! I think immigrants have a good reason to be frustrated! it sucks how people always put everyone in the same bag (I don't know if it's the same expression lol)
haha! I totally had this discussion earlier and I said that the difference of cultures is a plus for the society
we need to learn from everyone, and to respect etc etc

edit : Nath you're welcome :rose:

spyretto
18-04-2007, 19:10
to the 3 people who posted above:

God will punish you for ignoring me :p

spyretto
19-04-2007, 16:50
hey none of you is gonna make good politicians, when you're simply ignoring the public's questions. No care for the public i.e moi - no votes. Fundamental rule in politics :)

PowerPuff Grrl
19-04-2007, 17:23
You, on the other hand, are tailor made for American Politics; not only do you think you are the public but you also think God is on your side as well.

haku
22-04-2007, 16:33
A voté! :p

haku
22-04-2007, 19:01
Presidential election, first round, provisional results:

1. Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP) - 29,4 %
2. Ségolène Royal (PS) - 26,2 %

3. François Bayrou (UDF) - 18,6 %
4. Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN) - 10,8 %

5. Olivier Besancenot (LCR) - 4,7 %
6. Philippe de Villiers (MPF) - 2,5 %
7. Marie-George Buffet (PC) - 2,1 %
8. Dominique Voynet (Verts) - 1,6 %
9. Arlette Laguiller (LO) - 1,5%
10. Frédéric Nihous (CPNT) - 1,2 %
11. José Bové (Alter) - 1 %
12. Gérard Schivardi (PT) - 0,4 %

Turnout: 86 %

Sunrider
22-04-2007, 19:18
Presidential election, first round, provisional results:

1. Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP) - 29,4 %
2. Ségolène Royal (PS) - 26,2 %

3. François Bayrou (UDF) - 18,6 %
4. Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN) - 10,8 %

5. Olivier Besancenot (LCR) - 4,7 %
6. Philippe de Villiers (MPF) - 2,5 %
7. Marie-George Buffet (PC) - 2,1 %
8. Dominique Voynet (Verts) - 1,6 %
9. Arlette Laguiller (LO) - 1,5%
10. Frédéric Nihous (CPNT) - 1,2 %
11. José Bové (Alter) - 1 %
12. Gérard Schivardi (PT) - 0,4 %

Turnout: 86 %

Thanks! I'm quite disappointed about Bayrou not reaching the runoff. Not because I am particularly fond of him, or his platform, but between Royal, Sarkozy and Bayrou, he seemed the lesser of 3 evils to me.

What surprises me a little is Arlette Laguiller's result. Only 1,5%? During the last elections I think I remember her getting about 4%. Olivier Besancenot´s succes does not come as a surprise at all. I reckon many past PCF voters have voted for him during this election. As for the PCF itself, 2,1% is downright pathetic. This used to be the largest party in France, and was, until the 1970´s the dominant party of the left. La Mutation has been a failure for the party, it has blown up in their face, but they just won't let it get through to them.

forre
22-04-2007, 19:55
Thanks for the figures. As predicted.
The Grand slam final players (http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/0/14533/14533203_Presidents.jpg)

nath
22-04-2007, 20:04
Personally, I'm really happy about one thing: that French people went to vote in a such huge amount: I think it's around 79% of people who have voted against 58% in 2002.

The other point is the result: Sarkozy-Royal.
Even if Royal has her faults, I think it's important to maintain this Right-Left opposition.

Because even if a lot of left People have voted for Bayrou, we don't have to forget that previously he was from Right.

So I think, people would have lost interest for the 2nd tour if it would have been Bayrou at the second tour...I mean, I think about Left People.

Let's hope that the second tour will motivate French people in a such amount.

the unforgiven
22-04-2007, 20:37
YEAH I'm glad that more than 80% of frenchies voted today and secondly hooray for the FN result seriously it's a victory (even if it's still 4 millions of votes) I'm so glad that son of biiiiip failed haha! it's not a surprise that he's not in the 2nd round but it's cool that he's not the third man :D :D

Sunrider
22-04-2007, 20:54
YEAH I'm glad that more than 80% of frenchies voted today and secondly hooray for the FN result seriously it's a victory (even if it's still 4 millions of votes) I'm so glad that son of biiiiip failed haha! it's not a surprise that he's not in the 2nd round but it's cool that he's not the third man :D :D

I'll toast to that! :coctail:

It didn't look for a moment like he would repeat his previous election feat, but still it's good to see his overall popularity dropping. A large portion of the far-right vote has gone to Sarkozy though, and there is a reason for that. But I've told you guys how I feel about him already so I won't bore you with that again. :p

haku
23-04-2007, 01:03
Presidential election, first round, final results:

1. Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP) - 31.11 %
2. Ségolène Royal (PS) - 25.83 %

3. François Bayrou (UDF) - 18.55 %
4. Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN) - 10.51 %

5. Olivier Besancenot (LCR) - 4.11 %
6. Philippe de Villiers (MPF) - 2.24 %
7. Marie-George Buffet (PC) - 1.94 %
8. Dominique Voynet (Verts) - 1.57 %
9. Arlette Laguiller (LO) - 1.34 %
10. José Bové (Alter) - 1.32 %
11. Frédéric Nihous (CPNT) - 1.15 %
12. Gérard Schivardi (PT) - 0.34 %

Turnout: 84.60 %

Source (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/vi/0,47-0@2-823448,54-899922,0.html)


I've voted for Bayrou so of course i'm disappointed, but 18% is not too bad.

freddie
23-04-2007, 12:45
Does Ségolène Royal have any chance in round two?

haku
23-04-2007, 15:34
Does Ségolène Royal have any chance in round two?It's looking very difficult for her, the balance is clearly in favor of the right wing:

Right
Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP) - 31.11 %
Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN) - 10.51 %
Philippe de Villiers (MPF) - 2.24 %
Frédéric Nihous (CPNT) - 1.15 %
Total: 45.01 %

Left
Ségolène Royal (PS) - 25.83 %
Olivier Besancenot (LCR) - 4.11 %
Marie-George Buffet (PC) - 1.94 %
Dominique Voynet (Verts) - 1.57 %
Arlette Laguiller (LO) - 1.34 %
José Bové (Alter) - 1.32 %
Gérard Schivardi (PT) - 0.34 %
Total: 36.45 %

Center
François Bayrou (UDF) - 18.55 %

The center could tip the balance but Bayrou won't support either Sarkozy or Royal, Bayrou is now focused on the parliamentary elections (which take place a month after the presidential). Bayrou is probably going to create a new party to make a clear cut with the center-right past of the UDF and become a true centrist force. Bayrou's goal will be now to obtain enough seats in the next parliament to become an influencial force over the next government (right or left).
As for Bayrou's electors, there are indications that a large part simply won't vote in the presidential second round and is now waiting for the parliamentary elections, the rest will go more or less equally to the left and the righ so it won't change the balance.


Also, what a difference between Sarkozy's and Royal's speeches last evening! Sarkozy's speech was excellent, it was clear and inspired, and he talked very early, right after the results were announced. Royal's speech was an embarrassment, it was laborious, hesitant, and down right boring, and she appeared so late (what the hell was she doing all that time, hadn't she prepared anything because she didn't think she would make it to the second round?).

the unforgiven
23-04-2007, 16:04
what a difference between Sarkozy's and Royal's speeches last evening!
I second that! I was so surprised by Sarko and not at all by Ségolène. it's a pity that she doesn't know how to make a proper speech :dknow:
her speech was long and boring, I didn't pay so much attention
I guess she has a problem with speaking while reading a paper because when she's "natural" it's way better

haku
24-04-2007, 14:09
As required by law, Jacques Chirac and his wife have published a list of their properties (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-900907,0.html) before leaving office, it's in French so i'll sum up:

- château de Bity (that's the one in the picture), a small castle in Limousin region, estimated value of 500,000 euros
- a house in the same region inherited from Jacques Chirac's mother, estimated value of 60,000 euros
- various pieces of furniture and work of arts, estimated value of 200,000 euros
- 580,000 euros in stock accounts
- 74,000 euros in cash and saving accounts


Also, the article mentions that the Chirac couple has found a new 180m2 apartement in Paris (quai Voltaire, 7th arrondissement) where they will move in after they leave the Elysée palace in a couple of weeks.

haku
24-04-2007, 20:34
Sarkozy had a public meeting this evening here in Rouen, not a random choice of course since Rouen is the largest centrist city in France and both Sarkozy and Royal are trying to gather the centrist voters.
Unfortunately the centrist mayor of Rouen, Pierre Albertini, hasn't remained neutral, he was at Sarkozy's meeting, he officially stated that he was supporting Sarkozy for the second round and he even hugged the guy (http://www.lefigaro.fr/assets/photo/albertini.jpg)… :rolleyes:
Rouennais are posting tonight on Albertini's blog and they are majorly *pissed*, no doubt that Albertini has lost tonight a lot of votes for next year's municipal election.

Le maire de la plus grande ville UDF votera Nicolas Sarkozy au second tour (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-901388,0.html) :rolleyes:

nath
25-04-2007, 09:12
By hasard, I saw 45 mn of Sarkozy meeting , yesterday evening....after was diffused 45 minutes of the meeting of Royal...

I'm sorry , but I switched off the tv....what Royal said is SO flat.....
At the opposite, I absolutely agreed with Sarkozy's speach.

I was even surprised (because it's the first time that I hear a full speach of him) to observe how similar are my thoughs from his.
I know my reputation is absolutely dead now but I assume it! ;)

Another thing, I was used, when I had to read a newspaper , to read Liberation..

So I read it these last times on the net...and I have to say that I was really disappointed...
Instead of a kind of comparaison between the different candidates and a kind of neutral analyse....it was just a part of this ashamed state of mind where , instead of analysing the program of a candidate, you joke about him/ and you use as a weapon the big CARICATURE!!!

haku
25-04-2007, 16:44
François Bayrou just had a press conference (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6591461.stm) and as expected, he hasn't given any advice on how to vote in the second round (though he has clearly hinted that he will himself vote for Royal).
More importantly, he has announced that he will create a new centrist Democrat Party that will be ready for the next parliamentary elections (something that i fully support, bravo).
The UDF will most probably disappear, a few years after the RPR disappeared as well, it's a whole page of French political history that is being turned.

By hasard, I saw 45 mn of Sarkosy meeting , yesterday evening....after was diffused 45 minutes of the meeting of Royal...

I'm sorry , but I switched off the tv....what Royal said is SO flat.....
At the opposite, I absolutely agreed with Sarkozy's speach.We were watching the same channel as i saw the same thing. :D Yeah, Sarkozy is a great orator, his speeches are remarkable. Royal simply doesn't know how to talk, the way she stumbles and pauses every four or five words is beyond annoying.

Let me add that i have no particular problem with Sarkozy and people who support him, he certainly doesn't scare me or anything, he's simply following a right wing policy and i can totally understand that, i even often agree with what he says in the economic field, but there are other fields where he's going beyond what i can personally support, he sounds way too pro-American for my taste (everybody knows that i am pro-European) and the way he speaks of religion and christianity goes against my strict secularist and atheist principles, i don't want the state to push religion on me.

And yeah, Libération has become a trash paper lately.

forre
25-04-2007, 21:48
Yeah, Sarkozy is a great orator, his speeches are remarkable. Royal simply doesn't know how to talk, the way she stumbles and pauses every four or five words is beyond annoying.
Then as it seems for now Sarkozy is going to be the next President. I don't think French people are going to choose someone, who embarrasses herself. France is an important figure in international politics. Royal is good for nothing speaking of representing France internationally.

nath
25-04-2007, 21:57
France doesn't work like that Olga...at the ultimate point, a French won't vote or will vote "blank"....but it's very very seldom that you will see a person from Left wing vote for a Right wing representant or a person from Right wing vote for a Left wing representant ...

There are some exceptions ,of course, as François Bayrou who was from Right Wing , then has definitely himself as a center person and now, even if he doesn't give officially directives to his members to vote, seems to indirectly push the things for that his members vote for Ségolène Royal ...with some little things as "Sarkozy is a Berlusconi...."... ;)

forre
25-04-2007, 22:05
nath, French people are like any other people. They will think twice before voting for Sego. If blank, then Sarkozy wins anyway.

nath
26-04-2007, 06:32
Patrick, you who have studied the different programs with more attention than me...what do you think?
Do you think that the Bayrou's program is closer to the Royal/Left one or closer to the Sarkozy/Right one, please?
Merci:rose:

Juliette
26-04-2007, 12:37
Nath you can see the values shared by the UDF and UMP there : http://www.dialogue-initiative.com/ledebat/archives/9-Charte-des-valeurs-communes-UDF-UMP.html

that's the blog of Jean-Pierre Rafarin :)

hope it helps..

haku
26-04-2007, 16:52
Patrick, you who have studied the different programs with more attention than me...what do you think?
Do you think that the Bayrou's program is closer to the Royal/Left one or closer to the Sarkozy/Right one, please?My personal opinion is that Bayrou is now closer to Royal than Sarkozy.

Let's put it this way, if i draw a line from left to right, and i put Fabius at the left end, and Sarkozy at the right end, i think Bayrou would be right in the middle, i think there are as many differences between Bayrou and Fabius as between Bayrou and Sarkozy.
Of course Royal is not at all as far left as Fabius, on my line, i would say that Royal is right between Fabius and Bayrou, as for DSK, i would say that DSK is between Royal and Bayrou.

The problem for Royal is that she has to navigate between her left (Fabius) and her right (DSK), if she went much closer to DSK and abandoned Fabius, she could easily form a coalition with Bayrou, Bayrou and DSK could easily govern together. But i don't think she's going to do that, not for this election, and Bayrou can't accept any agreements with the PS as it is, Bayrou can't govern with Fabius no more than he can govern with Sarkozy.

My personal hope (and i think that's what Bayrou is hoping too) is that the PS will soon break off in two parts, an anti-liberal part (the Fabius line) which would constitute an extreme left party (like what the FN is at the extreme right), and a social-democrat part (the DSK line) that would join forces with Bayrou's Democrat party to create a truly modern social-democrat opposition in France.

haku
27-04-2007, 15:22
Sarkozy has announced last evening (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-30678520@7-37,0.html) that he will remove French troups from Afghanistan if he's elected, which is a good decision. I also remember that he mentioned several weeks ago that he would remove most (if not all) French troups from Africa, which is also a good decision (especially if it's all of them).
France is a small country that no longer has any influence in the world and we shouldn't have any troups outside of Europe (except in French overseas territories of course and French nuclear submarines can continue to patrol the oceans but that's it), i support a full withdrawal of French forces outside of Europe and i'm glad to see that Sarkozy is close to that opinion as well.

nath
27-04-2007, 17:57
Patrick, may be I'm wrong, but I think that Bayrou is may be closer to Royal's program about the social way but he is closer to Sarkozy about the economical way and in this domain , in perfect opposition, with the economical program of Royal.

We'll see, but i'm pretty sure that the way he is actually behaving will turn against him....may be, he will keep some electors for socialist party but I'm pretty sure he has already lost a lot of members from the Right wing and that a lot of persons will leave him soon.

May be a lot of Socialists will follow him in his new party but I think too that his result in the next elections in june will be badder than the result he got last week.

spyretto
27-04-2007, 23:40
I placed a bet today, 1000 UK pounds on Mr Sarkozy to win...looks like a sure bet...don't know anything about French politics - nor will I ever care - but my take is that the voters would not go for a socialist let alone a woman. France's natural inclination is conservatism.
Do you think I should put another 1k on it or should I be content with just the one ?? It's 1.25 so we're talking 250 pounds of free, unadulterated, effortless, hot cash... or should I go for the double and the half K?

So France has troops in Afghanistan? Now that's what in laymen's terms is called "effing hypocrites.

haku
28-04-2007, 04:05
So France has troops in Afghanistan? Now that's what in laymen's terms is called "effing hypocrites.Because France doesn't have any troops in Iraq? It's a completely different situation. The operation in Afghanistan is a *NATO* operation, French troops are over there under NATO command, and the operation is backed by a UN resolution agreed upon by all permanent members (exactly like the Kosovo operation where France also has troops).
On the other hand, the invasion of Iraq is not a NATO operation and is not backed by a UN resolution, thus France and quite a few other countries consider it illegal and won't participate.


And i don't know if you should bet more money, all i can say is that it does seem like a slam dunk for Sarkozy at the moment, it's almost certain that he's going to win.

haku
30-04-2007, 23:17
A pro-European collective has asked Sarkozy and Royal to endorse 7 measures in favor of European integration:

1. Work to define the role and missions of the European Union for the years to come

2. Give a President to the European Union, eventually directly elected by EU citizens

3. Give as many legal and budgetary powers to the EU parliament as to the Council of Ministers

4. Generalize majority votes and engage reinforced cooperations in areas where unanimity votes cause deadlocks

5. Work to establish a true economic and social governance of the eurozone, including the creation of an EU Finance Minister

6. Create a "European Semester" allowing all EU citizens aged 15 to 25 to spend 6 months in another EU state, during their studies or within a European civil service.

7. Make the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights legally binding

Original article (http://www.europanova.eu/) (in French)


Sarkozy fully agrees with all 7 measures.

Royal agrees with the creation of an EU President but is not sure they should be directly elected by EU citizens, and she would limit the European Semester to a student exchange program. She fully agrees with the 5 other measures.


So Sarkozy is ready to go a bit further in European integration than Royal.

freddie
01-05-2007, 08:23
3. Give as many legal and budgetary powers to the EU parliament as to the Council of Ministers.

Whatwhatwhat? This would infact favour the larger nations. How wholey uneuropean. :p

nath
01-05-2007, 09:15
There is something that I don't understand, Patrick, in your state of mind...

*One one hand, you want a big Unification of "Europe",even with one President of this European Union...

*and , on the other hand, for France, you wish the opposite of this Unification: I mean the Autonomy of all the different French Regions...

So,could you explain to me, more in details, your point of view, please, because I surely miss something but it seems to me there is here a kind of contradiction for my poor mind...:)

haku
01-05-2007, 22:42
There is something that I don't understand, Patrick, in your state of mind...

*One one hand, you want a big Unification of "Europe",even with one President of this European Union...

*and , on the other hand, for France, you wish the opposite of this Unification: I mean the Autonomy of all the different French Regions...

So,could you explain to me, more in details, your point of view, please, because I surely miss something but it seems to me there is here a kind of contradiction for my poor mind...I don't see it as a contradiction, i see it as a 3-level federation - Province > State > Federation (http://norambre.free.fr/tatysite/EU-FR-Nor.jpg) - each with distinct powers and reponsibilities.

The fact that i want a European federation doesn't mean that i would want everything to be decided and managed at the top federal level, there are many things that are best managed at the state level and many things that are best managed at the provincial level. Each entity would be far enough from the other 2 in terms of size and population so they would not compete or interfere with each other's powers and responsibilities, i mean, it's obvious that a province would have nothing to do with foreign affairs, and it's obvious that the federation would not manage daycare centers.

I want a European federation because i don't think any European state on its own has enough weight to be heard in international matters, especially with powers like the US, China or India that are (or will be) so much more powerful than any European state. I also want a European federation because i think European people have enough in common to live together, after all the descendants of those same Europeans live together in the US federation or the Canadian federation for example, i don't see why they could not live together in a European federation.

A European federation would only manage continental and global matters like foreign affairs, international relations, defense, protection of civil liberties and human rights, and any other areas that states would decide to transfer to the top federal level.
That leaves many things for the state and provicial levels.

And yes, i do think that it would be better if French provinces had a greater autonomy to manage their local affairs, i think that way too many things that only concern a local population are decided in Paris. Maybe it's the word 'autonomy' that bothers you, i could have called it 'greater decentralization', i'm not asking for much, i think it would already be great if the powers of departements and regions were merged into one entity. I think provinces should manage things like roads, transports, schools, hospitals, etc, the things that are close to people's everyday life and are best managed by a local authority (in my opinion).
But let me be clear on one thing, those provincial powers would be *delegated* by the state, not *transfered*, meaning that the state keeps the right to take those powers back if need be, and those provinces would have no law-making powers, they would have to follow state and federal laws.

Hopefully i'm clear enough. :lalala:

haku
06-05-2007, 19:02
Presidential election, second round, final results:

1. Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP) - 53.06 %

2. Ségolène Royal (PS) - 46.94 %

Turnout: 84 %

spyretto
06-05-2007, 19:18
would like to thank misogynist conservative Frenches for making 500 pounds with 2 minutes of effortless work..a couple of clicks away on the betting site..you can go ahead and delete this, but you can't delete my hapiness.

Long live France! LOL

ps. Richard Gasquet being thrashed in tennis also made me a few spoils. You can't go wrong with laying those losers...it's the post-Zidane just go agaist the French sure money revenge era.

the unforgiven
06-05-2007, 19:24
I'm not surprised at all
let's wait and see the reactions
I hope riots won't happen, that's all
people need to respect the choice of most of french

I'm already fed up with media and their analysis :p

freddie
07-05-2007, 13:19
Kind of a let down eventhough she didn't have much chance. I don't like conservatives of any particular flavour. They're all bad news as far as I'm concerned. I was hoping for a new matriarchal western world lead by Merkel-Royale-Clinton holly trinity. Oh well... one can dream. :)

forre
07-05-2007, 13:49
spyretto, You could bet on that? :eek: Halliluia! I wish I lived in your country.

Yeh, there were some riots as usual. Only God knows why people need to destroy shops and turn streets into a mess. Sarko wasn't forced onto France by a third party. French people chose the guy. So, end of the story.

We were on the spot, mosly stuck in the press section until the votes were announced. There're a few pics from the event:
http://rittz.livejournal.com/133738.html#cutid1

haku
08-05-2007, 00:25
there were some riots as usual.There are still some riots tonight. :rolleyes: This is exactly why Sarkozy has been elected, most French people are completely fed up with those thugs.
And it's particularly stupid to riot now considering that there are parliamentary elections next month, the more they riot, the more the general population feel unsafe, and the more seats the UMP will get in the next parliament, personally i'm expecting a UMP flood in the next parliament if this goes on for a few days.

haku
14-05-2007, 17:37
Nicolas Sarkozy will be sworn in next wednesday (16 May), right after the ceremony he will immediately fly to Berlin to have his first official meeting with Angela Merkel, a clear sign that Nicolas Sarkozy intends to maintain and even strengthen the French-German close friendship.

It's to be noted that Tony Blair flew to Paris a few days ago to meet Nicolas Sarkozy before he was sworn in, they had a long private meeting, a sign that Paris and London are probably going to be closer during Nicolas Sarkozy's mandate.
Tony Blair even posted a video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Cu9187tCY) to congratulate Nicolas Sarkozy.

haku
16-05-2007, 00:06
The French government resigned today (that's normal, the government always resigns the day before the new president is sworn in), and Jacques Chirac said his final au revoir (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/video/0,47-0@2-823448,54-910559@51-843695,0.html) this evening.

haku
16-05-2007, 16:23
In pictures (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6661341.stm): Sarkozy sworn in as president
(in the 2nd picture, it's his wife, 2 sons (out of 3), and 2 step-daughters)


************
Sarkozy pledges new era of change

France's new President Nicolas Sarkozy has taken office at a ceremony in the Elysee Palace, after waving goodbye to President Jacques Chirac.

The new centre-right president succeeded his former mentor after defeating the Socialists' Segolene Royal in the 6 May run-off election.

In his inaugural address, Mr Sarkozy called for change and national unity.

He said his first decision was to make all schools read a letter home written by a World War II resistance fighter.

'We need results'

Mr Sarkozy said France needed "to take risks and follow initiatives".

The country also needed to "rehabilitate the values of work, effort, merit and respect" and defeat intolerance, he said.

A 21-gun salute marked his assumption of the presidency, after a brief private conversation with Mr Chirac.

One of Mr Chirac's last tasks was to hand over the launch codes of France's nuclear arsenal.

Mr Sarkozy, 52, was accompanied at the ceremony by his wife Cecilia, wearing an eye-catching golden dress, and other family members - their son Louis and four children from their previous marriages.

In his speech Mr Sarkozy attacked racism and stressed that "order and authority is needed" to deal with security challenges.

"We need results because the French people in their daily lives need improvements... We need to invent new solutions."

He warned that "never have the risks of inertia been so great for France" as in today's fast-moving world.

But he vowed to "defend the independence of France... the identity of France".

He also called for "a Europe that protects" and the development of "a Mediterranean union".

Mr Sarkozy later rekindled the flame on the tomb of the unknown soldier at the Arc de Triomphe.

He said he could never read the letter from a young resistance fighter, Guy Moquet - who was executed in 1941 - to his parents without being "profoundly moved".

Mr Sarkozy said it was essential children knew the horror and barbarism of war and the extent of Moquet's sacrifice.

Berlin trip

On Tuesday, Mr Chirac bade farewell to the nation in a televised address after 12 years at the Elysee.

The BBC's Paris correspondent Caroline Wyatt notes that Mr Chirac leaves behind unemployment of more than 8% and a nation uncertain of its place in the world and divided over its future.

Mr Sarkozy, formerly interior minister, has a reputation as a law and order hardliner. He made the fight against illegal immigration and crime prominent in his election campaign, along with the issue of national identity. For the first time modern France is now being ruled by an immigrant's son.

"The people conferred a mandate on me... I will scrupulously fulfil it," he promised. He won with 53% of the vote and enjoys a powerful mandate after a massive turnout by the electorate.

He praised Mr Chirac's contributions to peace and the environment. The two men have been both allies and foes over the past 30 years.

Mr Sarkozy is later to travel to Berlin to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a key ally and the current president of the European Union.

Mr Sarkozy is not expected to name his prime minister and cabinet until Thursday.

A former minister, Francois Fillon, is expected be made prime minister.

Reports also suggest that a senior member of the defeated Socialist party, Bernard Kouchner, is a leading candidate for the post of foreign minister.

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6660277.stm)

the unforgiven
16-05-2007, 16:42
I've watched a part of it on tv, not the all thing cuz I had other things to do but I have to say that Sarko is such a show man :p
anyway, adieu Jacques

forre
16-05-2007, 16:50
Sarko needs to learn how to walk better otherwise he soon will face lots of parodies on his walking.

A sort of big inauguration. Cannons shooting, horses, etc. LOL. Well, an impressive show.

haku
23-05-2007, 19:53
The official portrait of President Sarkozy (http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8475/sarkozyportraitofficielxv9.jpg) has been revealed (it's the portrait that is put in all public buildings), i like it.

the unforgiven
23-05-2007, 20:49
The official portrait of President Sarkozy has been revealed
he looks gayish ;) YAY for the european flag
I didn't watch news for days I should read some newspaper to stay tune with his "brand new" politic

the unforgiven
29-05-2007, 19:24
what about the legislatives election? I've just seen that some homophobic guy named Christian Vanneste will run for an alternative party CNI cuz he was banned from the UMP
but there's no UMP guy against him ... is that a way to support him?

zebu
12-06-2007, 20:26
sarkozy drunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd44XTlUQjQ) lol