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View Full Version : The rights of animals (discussion)


Rachel
23-08-2006, 08:29
Thread moved from Daily Weirdness (http://forum.tatysite.net/showthread.php?t=9120) due to major off-topic-ness.

This (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eveningstarnf8.jpg) was in my local newspaper yesterday.

A man died from catching what my rabbit Lena has :none:

Kyro
23-08-2006, 11:25
I saw that in one of the national papers and thought of Lena. It's pretty scary :none:

Rachel
23-08-2006, 16:48
Oh well, the guy deserved to die - he got it from picking up a rabbit he shot.

tatuftw99
23-08-2006, 21:06
You think he deserved to die because he shot a rabbit? :confused:

Zero682
23-08-2006, 21:09
Oh well, the guy deserved to die - he got it from picking up a rabbit he shot.

Wow, Isn't that a little harsh?

nath
23-08-2006, 21:14
You think he deserved to die because he shot a rabbit? Wow, Isn't that a little harsh?
No....Rach is like that and she's able to destroy, by distance, the computers from all those who don't like the rabbits.....
Do you like the rabbits? :p

Zero682
23-08-2006, 21:15
*Now hiding under desk

Kyro
23-08-2006, 21:48
You think he deserved to die because he shot a rabbit?
Isn't that a little harsh?

A life is a life. What makes a human life more valuable than that of a rabbit? If he shot and killed a human most people would say he deserved to die.

QueenBee
23-08-2006, 22:04
I don't think you can really compare the life of a human to the life of a rabbit... :none: We've created for ourselves a society where we have connections and relationships. I don't think any rabbits cried, but the dude's mother is probably devastated.

I am a huge animal lover and I feel much more sorry when I hear about animals being killed or dying, than humans... :(

But still, how ironic - the guy killed someone and then he got a taste of his own medicine and died. It's kind of funny, really...

Rachel
23-08-2006, 22:38
I don't think you can really compare the life of a human to the life of a rabbit... :none:Don't ever talk to me again.

Zero682
23-08-2006, 22:49
* Not leaving underneath the desk anytime soon

Rachel
23-08-2006, 22:54
Zero682, shooter?

Zero682
23-08-2006, 22:56
Hmm??

Rachel
23-08-2006, 22:57
I mean do you shoot animals? I'm asking coz of you doing your hiding thing.

Zero682
23-08-2006, 22:58
Nope, Worst thing i have is an airsoft gun. Hiding because it seems like a wars gonna break loose in the forums soon.

Rachel
23-08-2006, 22:59
Nope, Worst thing i have is an airsoft gun.Why do you feel the need to have that?

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:00
Airsoft?? Some times me and friends play capture the flag. The pellets don't hurt what so ever though. Just to tell you when you been hit.

Rachel
23-08-2006, 23:01
No idea what that game is, but whatever. Guns are guns.

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:04
Capture the Flag is when you have 2 teams and the teams have to try to get each others flags that are at their base. I haven't used them for a long time though. Their sitting in a drawer. Guns are needed sometimes to protect though.

Rachel
23-08-2006, 23:08
Guns are needed sometimes to protect though.Is that in general life or in this game?

If you mean real life, that is not the case. People who say they carry guns to "protect" themselves usually carry guns because someone else could be carrying a gun...it's an endless & stupid cycle.

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:09
Im talking about defiending against animals, like bears. I mean if im camping and this bear wants to maul me, i would like something better than a stick.

Rachel
23-08-2006, 23:14
Zero682, statements like that make me want to go back to a time before there were guns.

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:15
Like what ??

Rachel
23-08-2006, 23:17
"My life is more important than anothers."

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:21
I think my lifes worth more than any animal thats not human. Cause come life or death, I want to live.

Rachel
23-08-2006, 23:22
I think my lifes worth more than any animal thats not human.Not everyone would agree, me being one of those people. Sorry.

And on that note, I'm off to bed. Bye bye!

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:24
Night.

Kyro
23-08-2006, 23:28
I think my lifes worth more than any animal thats not human.

I don't understand people with that sort of attitude. What is it that makes us humans so much more important? Don't all animals have an equal right to live?

Zero682
23-08-2006, 23:30
So your saying if you life came down to either you die or say some animal dies, you will be willing to die in order for it to keep on living?

Kyro
23-08-2006, 23:39
No. I want to live and would do whatever it took to survive, but to say my life was worth more than theirs would be ridiculous. In my opinion all lives are equal. I don't deserve to live more than them, and they don't deserve to live more than me.

spyretto
24-08-2006, 00:14
Very altruistic notion but it makes no sense

dradeel
24-08-2006, 00:19
No. I want to live and would do whatever it took to survive, but to say my life was worth more than theirs would be ridiculous. In my opinion all lives are equal. I don't deserve to live more than them, and they don't deserve to live more than me.
I agree!

I mean, I value the life of a human more than anything else, but at the same time do I also think that we don't have the right to live more than any other animal. We're on the top of the food chain and feed on other animals and plants aso ... also, we are a product of nature like everything else, and we should respect the fact that everything else is there so that we can survive - therefor should we also value everything else (animals and plants aso.) as we do with humans. We depend on others, so that makes them equally valued as us. Hehehe.. it's a tricky topic and I hate taking either side of it :) But yeah, I think that saying humans value more than everything else without adding a "but [...]" is wrong, yet I can't totally disagree with the statement either. Hehe.

Edit: why are ALL of zero's msgs deleted? It's crazy hard to understand the whole thing with the last page, allthough I do understand most of it. It's annoying tho. Hehehe.

He deleted them. I brought them back.

Zero682
24-08-2006, 00:44
I don't want to fight with people over this topic. I have a feeling this will never end then. I have already sent a message to the admin about deletion. By the way thanks to the people who were nice to me.

dradeel
24-08-2006, 01:22
I don't want to fight with people over this topic. So my account will be deleted soon.
Imo there's no need for any deletion. People are entitled their right to have their own opnions! :) I wouldn't agree your account being deleted, and I think it's a pity if it's you who don't have the will to be a member anymore. Whatever the reason may be, it shouldn't be necessary. BUT I've been away for 2 days, so I haven't really been able to keep on track with everybody else. Things might've happened?

tatuftw99
24-08-2006, 02:20
Looks like this whole thing kinda escalated to far lol. I understand both sides of the argument and i have honestly never put much thought into the subject before now. So i dont really have a side .

Rachel
24-08-2006, 17:31
So your saying if you life came down to either you die or say some animal dies, you will be willing to die in order for it to keep on living?Do other animals have guns to protect themselves?

Zero682
24-08-2006, 19:08
Nope humans are defensless and they built weapons at first to defend ourselves. Sadly nowadays weapons have gotten out of control.

Rachel
24-08-2006, 19:10
LOOOOOOOL Zero, thought you were going? :laugh:

Did you expect me to grovel for you to stay in that PM?!

Grow up!

Winkie
24-08-2006, 19:23
What's going on here, anyway? :p It started about that shooting of rabbits, right? Or am I mistaken? Can't everyone just act a bit mature and not threaten with "i'll delete my account" or stuff. If you have something to say, say it. If you don't, shut the f**k up and don't start acting like a 3 years old.. :S Zero, I don't know you, but why do you want to delete your account? Nobody's telling you to go, as far as I know, but I don't think we'll beg you to stay, do as you please, but don't act like "I'm gonna delete" because that's soo childish.

Rach, that purple stuff in your signature is awesome :p

Rachel
24-08-2006, 19:28
It started about that shooting of rabbits, right?Yup :(

Can't everyone just act a bit mature and not threaten with "i'll delete my account" or stuff. If you have something to say, say it. If you don't, shut the f**k up and don't start acting like a 3 years old.. :S Zero, I don't know you, but why do you want to delete your account? Nobody's telling you to go, as far as I know, but I don't think we'll beg you to stay, do as you please, but don't act like "I'm gonna delete" because that's soo childish.Totally agree Winkie :yes: He already deleted his posts so I brought them back as they made the thread totally unreadable.

Rach, that purple stuff in your signature is awesome :pLOOOOOL I love it too! Sean (Tatutaty) is a genius! :gigi:

QueenBee
24-08-2006, 19:36
Don't ever talk to me again.
Are you being serious? :lalala:

Guns are needed sometimes to protect though.
That's just bullshit.... guns are completely useless in nature. If a person or an animal is attacking you, there are other ways to protect yourself. But my strategy is to avoid any waters where there are sharks, or forests where there are bears. :p

I didn't know about this story before, and I think you're the greatest guy, but some people should learn to respect other people's opinions... there's really no point in deleting your account because someone said something that you didn't agree with. If you want to leave, you don't need to log in again... I mean, we have members here who visited once, registered an account, and never came back.

Winkie
24-08-2006, 19:40
Right, it's not like anyone cares bout my opinion, but here it is anyway:

Shooting rabbits:
When you're alone in the woods and starved to death, feel free! You need to eat to stay alive and nature's about living and killing, in fact.
When you're just bored as hell, please get a life! You are NOT supposed to kill other creatures just for fun! What's the use of it?

Acting like a 3 years old:
I don't know how old you are Zero, but please act as if you are at least 15. You behave like a 3 years old, and I don't think they should have access to the internet. If they do, I'm gonna talk to their parents.

Deleting posts:
Why would you delete your posts? You typed it, had the time to think about the things you were going to say, so why delete it? Because you feel like it's a competition you should win? That's not what this is about.
As far as I know, and as far as I am concerned, this is a forum. A place where you can talk and give your opinion on something. People don't have to think you're right. You don't have to think other people are right. Zero, if you don't agree with Rachel, that's fine. But don't act this childish please. It's not really convincing or something.

Rachel's signature:
I want one! Where can I buy 'em? :p

QueenBee
24-08-2006, 19:42
I think he deleted his posts because he didn't think it was gonna be such a big deal. Makes it a bit difficult to follow the debate though!

*gonna go hug my cats now*

spyretto
24-08-2006, 19:46
I don't agree that all people's lives are worth the same ( never mind the rabbits )
For example metalheads' lives are more worthless than the others.

Peace.

Totally agree Winkie He already deleted his posts so I brought them back as they made the thread totally unreadable

Rachel that's called over-exercising your powers as a mod. If he wants his posts deleted, so be it.

Winkie
24-08-2006, 19:46
Why are they more worthless?

Rachel
24-08-2006, 19:49
Shooting rabbits:
When you're alone in the woods and starved to death, feel free! You need to eat to stay alive and nature's about living and killing, in fact.
When you're just bored as hell, please get a life! You are NOT supposed to kill other creatures just for fun! What's the use of it?Oh I totally agree there. We are animals just the same as foxes, we need to eat.

But killing something for your own sick enjoyment is just fucked up. There is a direct link between animal abuse and violence directed to humans, that is a FACT. So I think that shows what the average hunter is like.

Why are they more worthless?Winkie, ignore spy, he's just being his usual sarcastic self and trying to start a fight :p

the unforgiven
24-08-2006, 19:53
May I ask this lil' question : who is vegetarian here?
just curious ^^

Rachel I agree with Winkie your signature is awesome, praise Tatutaty brilliant poetry

Winkie
24-08-2006, 19:53
Okay I'll ignore him..
But I agree with you, killing just because you enjoy it is SICK, it's fucked up, it's cruel. If you have to kill to eat, that's okay. I can't say I really say "yeah let's go kill the rabbit and cook it" but well, if I have to choose between dying or staying alive, I'd kill something to eat.. That's the way the world works. But I'd NEVER kill just because I'd love to do it.. :)
And if you think about it, as far as I know (maybe I'm wrong) only humans do it. Animals never kill for fun. They kill because they feel threatened, or because they need food, or because they are in a fight, but you'll NEVER see a snake kill a mouse or anything, just because he feels like killing.. :) There always has to be a reason and "I'm so bored" isn't a good reason.. :)

Naïs, I've been a vegetarian for over a year, but then I decided that it is human to eat meat, and I stopped. Like I said, people need to kill, in order to eat. A plant or anything else is alive too, just in some different way, so if I'd not want to eat anything that has been alive, I'd better stop eating at all..

Rachel
24-08-2006, 19:57
May I ask this lil' question : who is vegetarian here?
just curious ^^I was for a few years but I got really unhealthy :/ I just don't like vegetables & fruit enough :/

I now only eat pork and very rarely beef. I actually didn't eat beef from the age of 6 til about a year ago because I like cows so much :/

Rachel that's called over-exercising your powers as a mod.No, it's called making a thread readable.

spyretto
24-08-2006, 19:59
Why are they more worthless?


Cause they have a negative view of life.
Life's too short to be sad.
Etc.

QueenBee
24-08-2006, 19:59
I don't agree that all people's lives are worth the same ( never mind the rabbits )
For example metalheads' lives are more worthless than the others.

LOL! That's not true, spyretto!
Rapists.. I think they should all be shot. Or suffocated or whatever.
But I don't like how we see ourselves better than animals... and I can't understand why anyone would enjoy killing a living creature for fun (unless it's a bug).

the unforgiven
24-08-2006, 20:04
btw, I agree with Winkie
don't need to kill animals without a "real" purpose

I'm not veg, I like eating meat :p but I can understand people who said they are veg cuz' it's insane to kill an animal

about the gun stuff : calm down guys hehe
everybody has in own opinion and we need to respect each other ;)
so, peace and love

spyretto
24-08-2006, 20:06
LOL! That's not true, spyretto!
Rapists.. I think they should all be shot. Or suffocated or whatever.
But I don't like how we see ourselves better than animals... and I can't understand why anyone would enjoy killing a living creature for fun (unless it's a bug).

Well, we're not better than animals but our lives are worth more. We have what we call a moral system while the animals don't, that's why we're here discussing this, aren't we? Some animals only serve the food chain. We're civilised, animals are animals. We're more complicated beings.

For all those reasons and a lot more.

I personally don't condine the killing of animals, not only for fun but for food even ( as we can have an adequate non animal diet, so we don't need them to survive. ) But we all understand the universe is carnivorous.


So when we kill animals for food we still kill them for pleasure ( pleasure of our belly ).

Winkie
24-08-2006, 20:09
Let's take a breath first..

Dolphins are way more intelligent than humans can ever be. Their systems are so difficult we still don't understand. Monkeys are very intelligent. Even cockroaches are smart, they have to be! They've been on this Earth for over millions of years, and they'll probably still live when all humans are dead.
Don't ever say that we are worth more, because we are supposed to be civilised. We're not. We have war, and hunger, and stuff like that.
Animals are animals. Humans are beasts.

spyretto
24-08-2006, 20:13
Let's take a breath first..

Dolphins are way more intelligent than humans can ever be. Their systems are so difficult we still don't understand. Monkeys are very intelligent. Even cockroaches are smart, they have to be! They've been on this Earth for over millions of years, and they'll probably still live when all humans are dead.
Don't ever say that we are worth more, because we are supposed to be civilised. We're not. We have war, and hunger, and stuff like that.
Animals are animals. Humans are beasts.

That sounds like rhetoric and it goes back to a morality system. You can't compare a man to a dolphin because a dolhpin is an animal and a man is a man. It's a totally different proposition, as you wouldn't equate a plant with an animal. a plant is a living thing also but you wouldn't compare it to the life of an animal.

I think people are more sensitive to animals because their systems are similar to humans.

Winkie
24-08-2006, 20:15
So if we are sensitive to animals, why do we kill them for fun? Cuz that was what this was all about.

spyretto
24-08-2006, 20:18
So if we are sensitive to animals, why do we kill them for fun? Cuz that was what this was all about.

Cause we're creatures urged by desires that we can't control .
But we do have vegetarinism and veganism, which opposes that practice to such an extent that they wouldn't even eat the end product.. And we're against cruelty to animals.

So there are those people who freely indulge in their sadistic urges by hunting and killing animals for fun and those who oppose that behaviour...those who oppose it are the vast majority.

Rachel
24-08-2006, 20:20
You can't compare a man to a dolphin because a dolhpin is an animal and a man is a man.Why are we in a totally different category? Because you want to think of us as more important :p We are actually no different!

a plant is a living thing also but you wouldn't compare it to the life of an animal.Oh man, we won't even go down this avenue :rolleyes:

Winkie
24-08-2006, 20:23
Okay.
1) We are creatures urges by desires we can't control.
Killing is not a desire. I don't wake up in the morning thinking "Oh let's buy a Clock 9 and blow someone's head off." Killing is nothing but an instinct to have power over one another. It is needed in times of war and danger, but I can hardly imagine a little rabbit kill or attack a human being in such a way that killing the rabbit is necessary.

2) we do have vegetarinism and veganism, which opposes that practise. And we're against cruelty towards animals.
This is the complete opposite of number 1. If we have these things, and are against cruelty towards animals, then why do we still kill for fun? Please explain this to me. Cuz you are saying two complete different things right now.

3) So there are those people who freely indulge in their sadistic urges by hunting and killing animals for fun and those who oppose that behaviour.
Then WHY do those people who are against killing for fun, not have that desire to kill? Because if it was human, everyone would have it.. So it's not a natural thing.

spyretto
24-08-2006, 20:26
Why are we in a totally different category? Because you want to think of us as more important :p We are actually no different!

Dolphins are obviously inferior to humans aren't they? Otherwise they would be able to achieve things of equal importance as the humans have achieved. I mean the human is a cross between an aninal and a higher being, isn't it? That's why a human is more important than an animal. That's how the idea of the god as an ultimate being originates as well.

You can't throw everything away and call what the humans have achieve a "fluke" We're animals of a higher order, because we're partly not of this earth.

QueenBee
24-08-2006, 20:28
I mean the human is a cross between an aninal and a higher being, isn't it?
The what, now? :spy:

spyretto
24-08-2006, 20:32
The what, now? :spy:


lol, seriously have you ever thought what your purpose in life in? I mean if even plants and animals do have a purpose - to add to the food chain - what is the human's purpose? nothing? It's obvious that we're - or our spirits are- banished in this planet aren't we? Do you think that the idea of a ultimate being that EVERY single civilization has embraced in the course of history is something that they simply came up with, or brainwashed with?

To me it's obvious that Man did not originate on this planet. This is the only logical explanation .
Don;t let yourselves down by equating them to animals

Rachel
24-08-2006, 20:34
Dolphins are obviously inferior to humans aren't they? Otherwise they would be able to achieve things of equal importance as the humans have achieved.spyretto, it all depends on what your idea of "equal importance" is. I'm sure dolphins don't know everything we do, so why would we know everything about what they know & do?

That's how the idea of the god as an ultimate being originates as well.Well, seeing as I would happily use the bible as toilet paper I don't think that really holds up your argument (to me, anyway)

Winkie
24-08-2006, 20:38
Okay Spy, first of all: Be serious, or shut up.
lol, seriously have you ever thought what your purpose in life in?
This is not being serious. So if you can't be serious or at least try to be, shut up.

There is no such thing as a God. If you believe human beings are so powerful, then were is that God to control our power? Cuz everytime we kill eachother in a war, I don't see some God come down from heaven to stop us. So there are a few options
1) God is non-existent
2) God is a sadistic asshole who likes us to be in pain

I'll go for option 1.

Rach, I have a few bibles, feel free to use them. I want to get rid of them anyway. Catholic School, so had to buy them -_-'

spyretto
24-08-2006, 20:43
spyretto, it all depends on what your idea of "equal importance" is. I'm sure dolphins don't know everything we do, so why would we know everything about what they know & do?

Well, seeing as I would happily use the bible as toilet paper I don't think that really holds up your argument (to me, anyway)


So you believe that the dolphins have built cities underwater, or got some kind of civilization going on ;)?

I'm not talking about the Bible here, I'm talking about the idea of a spirit amanating from the earthly body and going "somewhere" after the physical death. The Bible may be a lot of crap, but it's very selfish to suggest that in a universe that extends ad infinitumi there's no life elsewhere. It's also not very logical.

Winkie
24-08-2006, 20:49
Actually Spy, the only thing I believe is that you are just a little boy who can't have a serious discussion.
Importance is not about building cities, or about having weapons, or about those kind of things.
The first time you realise that, I might concider you as "important". Right now, I'd rather go and see some dolphins, cuz I think they have more brains than you.

Kyro
24-08-2006, 20:51
So you believe that the dolphins have built cities underwater, or got some kind of civilization going on ;)?

You believe that being able to build cities and establish civilizations would make them important? Those are things that are important to humans, not to other animals. To judge all creatures by our standards is an ignorant thing to do and only serves to make us feel superior.

Winkie
24-08-2006, 20:54
Spy: I did NOT say there was no life somewhere else. I just said I do NOT believe in God.
Basically, if you DO believe in the bible, you have to say there is no life out there. Because WE (human beings) are a mirrored image of God, as the Bible puts it, and the Bible does not say that God created a second Earth.
If you DON'T believe in the Bible, it's easy to believe Darwin, who says that we evolved from monkeys. So, if we did evolve from monkeys, eventually we evolved from one-cell-creatures, and those things have been found on other planets, so that is a way to think of life outerspace.

So basically: You're screwed. If you want to act mature, know what you're talking about.

QueenBee
24-08-2006, 21:14
lol, seriously have you ever thought what your purpose in life in?
Does there *have* to be a purpose outside of living and dying? You seem to imply that there is some sort of higher power out there. I don't believe there is.

So you believe that the dolphins have built cities underwater, or got some kind of civilization going on?
Just because they haven't, doesn't mean that they are dumb, does it? How can you say intelligence is based on how many cities you can build? Humans were smart, or maybe dumb enough to do so. I think we just put ourselves in a big mess

spyretto
24-08-2006, 21:41
Spy: I did NOT say there was no life somewhere else. I just said I do NOT believe in God.
Basically, if you DO believe in the bible, you have to say there is no life out there. Because WE (human beings) are a mirrored image of God, as the Bible puts it, and the Bible does not say that God created a second Earth.
If you DON'T believe in the Bible, it's easy to believe Darwin, who says that we evolved from monkeys. So, if we did evolve from monkeys, eventually we evolved from one-cell-creatures, and those things have been found on other planets, so that is a way to think of life outerspace.


I believe in neither to be quite honest with you. I don't believe we have evolved from monkeys cause if we evolved from them there wouldn't be monkeys around wouldn't it? That's quite obvious, unless you can give an explanation as to why one form of species only evolved and others wouldn't. If so, why didn't the dolhpins evolve in a similar way? We had this discussion before in the forum and the conclusion is that the Darwinist theory can simply offer no explanation other than that it is some kind of "fluke". And as the condition of life on the planet is governed by universal laws, you can't just assume that one form of life evolved in such a way because there were special conditions they had to adapt to. Humans are anatomically close to being defenceless creatures - food prey, as others - yet they're not. Their have cognition not only to defend themselves with but conquer the planet. This is not something you can simply "evolve" into.

I don't believe in the bible stories either, because it's as simple as you have put it: they don't accept the existence of other forms of life out there, and also because their whole belief system is based on morality, in do's and donts - something which is highly subjective. But as there is probably a little truth in Darwinism - it might not be adequate to explain human evolution but does explain a lot about how animals might have evolved - that's why you see so many different variations of animal species, they adapt to the environment they live in order to survive - I also believe that there is a little truth in religion as well, I mean the notion of the spirit exists in all belief-systems, and so does the notion of superior beings, who may have come in contact with earth. ( well, in religion it's God, of course, who is "extraterrestrial". )
Science accepts it as well: while religion provides us moral teachings by which a person's spirit will be "saved" after the earthly life is ceased, scientists are simply trying to build a vessel that will enable us to make contact with the gods that exist out there.

Does there *have* to be a purpose outside of living and dying? You seem to imply that there is some sort of higher power out there. I don't believe there is.


Just because they haven't, doesn't mean that they are dumb, does it? How can you say intelligence is based on how many cities you can build? Humans were smart, or maybe dumb enough to do so. I think we just put ourselves in a big mess

I'm not saying that our lives need to necessarily serve some purpose because we're superior beings. I'm talking about what is a common occurency on earth: there is purpose in nature to behold in every single living organism out there towards the benefit of the continuation of life on this planet. Every single one except MAN. Man is the only species that not only serves no purpose at all but it's actually a counter force acting against it. We destroy rather than repair, we're totally at odds with nature and the continuation of life on the planet.
So isn't it obvious to you that the Man's purpose may lie somewhere "else"??
Nature would simply not allow to create a Frankenstein monster like Man that would eventually destroy it, would it?

Kyro
24-08-2006, 22:18
Nature would simply not allow to create a Frankenstein monster like Man that would eventually destory itself, would it?

Why not? At some point, by chance, we evolved a certain way which allowed us to go against nature. Our self destruction would be nature's way of restoring balance.

spyretto
24-08-2006, 22:35
I wasn't talking about Man's destruction but the planet's destruction. The planet has no ways of rejuvenating itself once Man destroys it, it will become another dead planet. Man has crossed the line where nature could simply impose its laws for its own benefit. Man's "purpose" is alien to life itself, so I can't see how this is "nornal" in an earth system that is striving towards preservation.

Rachel
25-08-2006, 18:40
Great news (http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/news/story.aspx?brand=ESTOnline&category=News&tBrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=znews&itemid=IPED24%20Aug%202006%2010%3A50%3A50%3A107) :p I hoped this would happen. :coctail:

The quote "If they were, they would know that rabbit culling is a part of country life..." is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. I live pretty much in the country but you don't see me shooting rabbits.

***

And another thing, I just saw about this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/5285888.stm) on my local news. Sick bastard. Nothing more to be said.

Mary-sheccid
25-08-2006, 19:14
Yes Rachel, its truth.

we just follow the stereotypes..

Rachel
25-08-2006, 19:19
Mary-sheccid, what do you mean?

Mary-sheccid
25-08-2006, 19:30
Is that in general life or in this game?

If you mean real life, that is not the case. People who say they carry guns to "protect" themselves usually carry guns because someone else could be carrying a gun...it's an endless & stupid cycle.

ohh, sorry.

i was talking about this... :)

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 19:33
Great news I hoped this would happen.

"But the couple were horrified when anti-hunting extremists telephoned them within days of their son's funeral and implied their son deserved to die." that's not respectful !!
I'm sorry but in this thread we try to say that a life is a life
I disagree with these kind of phone calls, I mean if I were this guy parents I would be desperate.
these anti-hunting extremists seem to forget that it's hard to lose someone you love !!
I'm shocked !!

btw, the conclusion is right "The League Against Cruel Sports has described the telephone calls as "completely unacceptable''."

I just saw about this on my local news
I'm sure he used to be a beloyed husband eeeewww *ironic*
it's disgusting

Rachel
25-08-2006, 19:35
that's not respectful !!Neither is shooting something that has done nothing to you.

btw, the conclusion is right "The League Against Cruel Sports has described the telephone calls as "completely unacceptable''."I know for a fact they don't really think that. :p

Mary-sheccid
25-08-2006, 19:41
Neither is shooting something that has done nothing to you.
:p

Yes Rachel, is truth too, he just was doing that for fun... kill isn´t fun! not for me!

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 19:41
Rachel I never say that shooting rabbits is respectful!!
so next time I'll read in newspaper that someone in my town is dead I'll call his/her family to say "Hi, I just read that one of your relative died ... it's awesome"
WTF? I can't stand that !!
holy crap, I forgot something : their son (rabbit killer eeeww) just died few days ago, they need to receive calls like that !! really they need it and I'm sure they're happy and eager for more phone calls

mad world ... oops it's normal !! Sorry, when someone deserves to die we don't have to respect his/her family
btw, who can judge if somebody deserves to die? I'm not sure we are (I mean human in general)

:D

Rachel
25-08-2006, 19:46
btw, who can judge if somebody deserves to die? I'm not sure we are (I mean human in general)Human? You're singleing us out here which shouldn't be done - we are animals just as rabbits. The guy judged the rabbit should die when he shot it. There is no difference.

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 19:52
I mean humans can't judge if someone deserve to die, same for rabbits or any animal
it's just crazy to kill somebody (humans, animals or aliens ...) but it's also crazy to harass people like that!!
some humans are dumb, they did stupid things etc etc
but it's life, we can't change the world with "a blink of an eye"
so I can't understand why anti-hunting guys call this family, what did they think? that it'll change something?
it's not really clever, if people wanna change general state of mind and stuff I'm not sure they will manage with "stupid" phone calls
:p

Mary-sheccid
25-08-2006, 19:54
Not neither the rabbit, nor the boy were deserving to die, both are a part of the life.

I feel it for his family, is sad when someone that you love dies.

Rachel
25-08-2006, 19:55
so I can't understand why anti-hunting guys call this family, what did they think? that it'll change something?It's called revenge. Making a phone call is nothing compared to taking a life.

Plus, it keeps this event for longer in the spotlight.

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 20:03
It's called revenge. Making a phone call is nothing compared to taking a life.

one rabbit died (one or more?)
one guy died
that's enough, isn't it?
sometimes I can understand revenge but I really think it's too cruel
may be I'm a lil' bit naive, but I'm not sure I could live happily while knowing I'm an asshole who just likes revenge !!

Plus, I'm not sure that these anti-hunting callers know this guy, he may be a "great" guy (ok he shooted rabbits) who may help old people to buy groceries or these kind of stuff
so, I just ask : who the hell are they to call and said that he deserved to die? who the hell are they to say that they have the right to do that in the name of "holy revenge"?
that's sick

ok, I'm naïve but it's my point of view ... don't wanna agree or else

Rachel
25-08-2006, 20:07
the unforgiven, you make me both laugh & feel frustrated. I was going to reply but then I thought "what is the point?" because we are going round in circles and are obviously never gonna agree.

Kyro
25-08-2006, 20:08
Making a phone call is nothing compared to taking a life.

But will it help? It's just a harsh reminder to the parents that their son has just died, and if anything it will turn people who don't yet have a full opinion against the activists. How can that be a good thing?

Plus, it keeps this event for longer in the spotlight.

I guess that is the one good thing about it. People need to be made aware of and made to think about things like this.

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 20:12
the unforgiven, you make me both laugh & feel frustrated. I was going to reply but then I thought "what is the point?" because we are going round in circles and are obviously never gonna agree.
we agree on it Rachel lol
I just said to myself that I'm not continue to answer
btw, my english sucks and I can't explain what I really have in mind :p
happy to make you laugh,it's the same here (I mean you make me laugh) :D

Rachel
25-08-2006, 20:13
But will it help? It's just a harsh reminder to the parents that their son has just died, and if anything it will turn people who don't yet have a full opinion against the activists. How can that be a good thing?Honestly I don't think anyone's opinion is gonna change because of this, people usually have formed a view.

And quite honestly I don't really care if some people turn against activists, it won't change what we, yes I said we, are doing. Rabbits don't have a voice so someone has to do something.

Maybe this will scare people off shooting animals because they may catch something, that can only be a good thing :yes:

I'm going out to see my g/f now, so whatever replies there are I'll reply to later :)

Mary-sheccid
25-08-2006, 20:15
Rachel, Unforgiven. i respect your opinions!..
but please, stop!.. nobody have the absolutly truth..

Rachel
25-08-2006, 20:17
Before I go, have a look at this (http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/news/story.aspx?brand=ESTOnline&category=News&tBrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=znews&itemid=IPED24%20Aug%202006%2007%3A29%3A19%3A350). I'd like to see someone pull his or her's nails off.

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 20:22
Before I go, have a look at this. I'd like to see someone pull his or her's nails off.
I totally agree, it's just so horrible!! the man/woman who had done that is a total freak!!

Mary-sheccid
25-08-2006, 20:22
that´s sad!... i fee me bad for that...

freddie
25-08-2006, 20:25
I don't support condemning people to death, even if it's sick fucks like animal torturers etc. Talion law is never a good thing. This is exactly the humanity that seperates us from them. After we start killing people who kill kittens where do we end up? An eye for an eye and no more human then they are. I'm not saying they don't deserve strict punishment - even jail-time. Yet as a pacifist I can't support these cries for public linching. I want to remain human. Something they failed to do by being cruel to animals. I won't let them degrade me to their level though.

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 20:28
freddie :bow: I agree with you, totally, definitely etc etc
Talion law is never a good thing.
that's what I tried to say :cool:

Kyro
25-08-2006, 20:30
Before I go, have a look at this (http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/news/story.aspx?brand=ESTOnline&category=News&tBrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=znews&itemid=IPED24%20Aug%202006%2007%3A29%3A19%3A350). I'd like to see someone pull his or her's nails off.

That seems to me almost worse than shooting the rabbits. At least the guy who shot the rabbit thought he had a good reason to (not that I believe that justifies it in any way), whereas this is just mindless cruelty. People like that truelly deserve to suffer intolerable pain :mad:

Winkie
25-08-2006, 20:48
I believe in neither to be quite honest with you. I don't believe we have evolved from monkeys cause if we evolved from them there wouldn't be monkeys around wouldn't it? That's quite obvious, unless you can give an explanation as to why one form of species only evolved and others wouldn't. If so, why didn't the dolhpins evolve in a similar way? We had this discussion before in the forum and the conclusion is that the Darwinist theory can simply offer no explanation other than that it is some kind of "fluke". And as the condition of life on the planet is governed by universal laws, you can't just assume that one form of life evolved in such a way because there were special conditions they had to adapt to. Humans are anatomically close to being defenceless creatures - food prey, as others - yet they're not. Their have cognition not only to defend themselves with but conquer the planet. This is not something you can simply "evolve" into.
Right, now I know for sure you're stupid. Sorry to say it, but it's true. No personal insults, please.
We DID evolve from monkeys, or you have to believe we evolved from dolphins. We have 95% of our genes in common with monkeys, and 90% with dolphins. Which option do you prefer?
I don't know if you ever went to school, but try to follow some biology lessons, if you ever make it there. It might teach you a thing or two. Like Darwin, or why birds and other animals may look a lot like some other animals who live on the complete other side of the world. Thinking of that, try to follow history too, and think about the "Jura" time, and other historical important periods, long long long ago before human beings appeared.
We did evolve. We simply didn't stop when we were supposed to. We always want more.

I don't believe in the bible stories either, because it's as simple as you have put it: they don't accept the existence of other forms of life out there, and also because their whole belief system is based on morality, in do's and donts - something which is highly subjective. But as there is probably a little truth in Darwinism - it might not be adequate to explain human evolution but does explain a lot about how animals might have evolved - that's why you see so many different variations of animal species, they adapt to the environment they live in order to survive - I also believe that there is a little truth in religion as well, I mean the notion of the spirit exists in all belief-systems, and so does the notion of superior beings, who may have come in contact with earth. ( well, in religion it's God, of course, who is "extraterrestrial". )
Science accepts it as well: while religion provides us moral teachings by which a person's spirit will be "saved" after the earthly life is ceased, scientists are simply trying to build a vessel that will enable us to make contact with the gods that exist out there.
Soo basically you're saying animals did evolve by Darwin's theory but humans did not? Where are we from then? You don't believe in a God, you don't believe in a evolution theory. What do you believe in? Do you think this is all just a dream or something. God. You're even more confusing than me.

Cat story:
That is just horrible. I completely agree with that. I don't understand WHY people want to torture animals all the time. It starts when they are kids, they have to tease other kids at school. When they grow older they torture animals and when they have kids of their own they mistreat them and beat them.. :S Sick bastards..

QueenBee
25-08-2006, 21:55
The anti-hunting activists are total dumbasses... calling the guy's parents and saying those things? That's just stupid. They lost their son, and it's not their fault that he killed that rabbit, they shouldn't be the new victims. But those other articles are completely sick, I can't even read them in full... I hope those people are put in jail and never released. :mad:

the unforgiven
25-08-2006, 22:11
ok, I'm naïve but it's my point of view ... don't wanna agree or else
I just quote myself cuz' I just realized I made a mistake loool I don't wanna write "agree" I wanna write "argue" ... sorry for the misunderstanding

Rachel
25-08-2006, 22:54
...and it's not their fault that he killed that rabbitOnce again I totally disagree with you. They are brought up that way - they have probably been hunting for generations, so to say it wasn't their parents fault is complete rubbish. In the article I posted it already showed their feelings on shooting rabbits.

marina
11-09-2006, 05:41
Hang on a minute !

What about cockroaches ? Do cockroaches have the rights ?

freddie
11-09-2006, 20:08
Hang on a minute !

What about cockroaches ? Do cockroaches have the rights ?
Good point. As for myself I never squish bugs as a rule - even the more annoying ones like flies and mosquitos.

u2kforever
12-09-2006, 08:19
I don't think you can really compare the life of a human to the life of a rabbit...

Translate:

" I dont think you can really compare the life of a human to the life of a animal "

Either way it sounds out of place. Humans, animals, the entire world is one, all are important. :)

I don't think any rabbits cried

Animals has feelings just like humans. If you disagree, you must be a scientist :eek:

I am a huge animal lover and I feel much more sorry when I hear about animals being killed or dying, than humans... :(



I gather you was haivng a bad day when you posted this right? LOL

spyretto
12-09-2006, 16:06
Good point. As for myself I never squish bugs as a rule - even the more annoying ones like flies and mosquitos.

Seriously, imagine how many ants and minuscule bugs you have all killed with your walking though. So you think they don't have rights, do you?
I have only one word for you all: Murderers! :bebebe:

marina
12-09-2006, 16:17
Exactly ! And what do think , spy , about those do-gooders who pick the stray poor kitten up on the street and it infested with ewww....you know what ! nasty little fleas ...
Do they wash them away , do they poison the poor little things , eh ? Shocking !!!!

the unforgiven
12-09-2006, 16:46
What about cockroaches ? Do cockroaches have the rights ?
hope not or I'll be put in jail :p

freddie
12-09-2006, 17:08
Yeah I did say it was an interesting point. Maybe a line should be drawn that only beings with higher levels of awareness have rights. :D
Of course there's a huge philosophical discussion about what higher levels of awareness really represents. Lets put it this way though (and this is only my definition mind you): it's a difference of a being who's aware it exists and feels subjective pain as opposed to a being which is just a bag of instincts which make it move about... no thinking process whatsoever, except for the basic survival stuff (for instance like spiders who's whole existance is being dictated by their instinctual sense of making webs and always moving from colder to warmer space.)

marina
12-09-2006, 17:23
Well ....yes , I didn't mean it as a joke . It's very difficult to draw the line somewhere...
Let's see , we all love animals (I hope) Who doesn't ?
When I saw the pics of baby seal hunting ....god....my eyes wished to crawl into a dark corner and die!
I would never trust a man who is cruel with pets , burning kittens alive , twisting the dogs legs for fun ...If he/she does it to the pets , he could do it to anybody . Everybody.
But that total obsession with animals could lead to absurdity . We stop people from hunting , shooting , fishing ....the next right move by any logic could be protecting bugs and worms , cockrouches....And they eat their way through our crops , our green veg ..Mind you it would be only food we can get if we stop fishing and killing animals for meat ..
Where is the line ? Can I eat a baby carrot without being shamed for robbing veg of it's young ?

spyretto
12-09-2006, 22:26
I personally couldn't give a rat's ass about animal rights but I'd take the spider or the roarch out of the house and bid her farewell, rather than kill her. For me it's a sensible thing to do; try not to harm other living creatures, no matter how insignificant they might seem to be.

marina
13-09-2006, 12:28
In this video, a monkey protects his cat pal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EWWmxYh_xE) from a chicken poking around

The soundtrack is the sweet song "J'Taime"