View Full Version : Gangs, Positive or Negative?
I saw an episode of a TV show where they talked about gangs,,, this people said some of them like Lating Kings, are actually social organizations which care for their people advancement,,, (as they say) they're against bad treatment, discrimination,,,, but some of them have been engaged in criminal activities. I read this article in Wikipedia which can help you if you need more info.
Wikipedia ; The Latin Kings started out as a social organization for the advancement of the Puerto Rican community in the Chicago area in the 1940s. The organization spread nationally, and by the 1970s it came to be dominated by individuals engaged in criminal activity, in particular, narcotics trafficking.
Members of the Latin Kings identify themselves with the colors gold and black, the five pointed star or the initials ALKN (Almighty Latin King Nation). Some have tattoos of royal crowns (a common symbol for the gang) on their bodies. The Latin kings also use a symbol called "The Master" which is a picture of a Kings head with one tear drop. The Latin Kings wear beads around their necks in a pattern of five black and five gold.
Today, the Latin Kings are associated with the People Nation and is one of the most violent street gangs in the United States. The Chicago Crime Commission estimates that there are over 20,000 Latin Kings in the Chicago area alone. Latin Kings are also found on the East Coast, Puerto Rico, Mexico, South America, and Madrid. This last set has proven controversial, however, as many Puerto Ricans regard Spaniards as white European oppresors rather than part of the "Latino brown" community. Still it should not be forgotten that there are Latin American barrios even in Madrid. thanks to www.wikipedia.org
So you knew this side of gangs,,, what do you think now?
Gangs can have the good side to them and the bad side.. good side is.. it provides you with some sort of protection, bad side.. mostly associated with violence and can ge you into a lot of trouble at times but thats only from personal experiences, other than that i dont really know enough to make up my mind :ithink:
LOL @ gangs being 'social organizations'… seriously people?
Gangs are criminal organizations, they deal (drugs and weapons), they racket, they rob, they rape, they murder… Do you really think that's what a social organization is supposed to do? (If in doubt read the Red Cross charter, i'm pretty sure it says that dealing, racketing, robbing, raping and murdering are things that a social worker are *not* supposed to do.) :rolleyes:
The only good things I can see about gangs are the feeling of belonging, support and protection one would have being a part of one. For society as a whole I would say they are a bad thing, but I don't really know enough to say anything more than that.
so,, more people know as much as me about gangs :D
The only good things I can see about gangs are the feeling of belonging, support and protection one would have being a part of one. For society as a whole I would say they are a bad thing, but I don't really know enough to say anything more than that.
That's true, and I agree. It's because gangs are a reality that some people need the feeling of belonging and the protection, cause they need a protection against rivalling gangs. If there were no gangs there would be ALOT LESS robberies and violence! Especially in big cities where it's a big problems - in the ghettoes and where not. Gangs are negative, period. It's only positive for the ignorant people who actually feel needed to join one. And that's not really positive, they simply don't know better, and perhaps they've been threatened by the gang to join... We don't need any gangs at all!
People only join gangs if they have (or plan) to do something illegal. So yeah, it's about protection after your illegal activities. After all, no one is gonna do anything back to you if you have a huge group of people who would kick the shit out of the other person.
I agree with haku, dradeel and Rachel.
Think that "idea" that you're a "Man" because you belong to a gang is absolutely dangerous.
I am with haku, dradeel and Rachel.
So you are all in one gang , right ?:D
QueenBee
10-05-2006, 10:48
marina, LOL!
The word "gang" symbolizes a criminal organization, does it not? It's not like Greenpeace go around calling themselves a gang.
So, gangs as they are these days, are dangerous and criminal. Such as TLK which you mentioned, obviously nothing right with those.
Having to seek the feeling of protection in a gang isn't positive either. You're just fooling yourself. I bet as soon as you have a gun pointed to your head your dear gangfriends will run from the scene. :rolleyes:
Who the hell considers them social organizations anyway? People who are afraid they will get their asses beaten if they say otherwise?
It's obviously all down to interpretation on what a gang really is.
Lets see what the dictionary says:
1. A group of criminals or hoodlums who band together for mutual protection and profit.
2. A group of adolescents who band together, especially a group of delinquents.
3. Informal A group of people who associate regularly on a social basis: The whole gang from the office went to a clambake.
4. A group of laborers organized together on one job or under one foreperson: a railroad gang.
So obviously the first two definitions associate the word with criminality. And that's probably what most of us think of when we hear the word "gang". It's the most common use of the word so any other meaning (eventhough it validly exists) would sound odd. Like saying someone's gay? The first thing popping into your head wouldn't be that they're "happy", would it? ;)
I'm scared of all gangs :p
PowerPuff Grrl
10-05-2006, 16:12
When the Italian Mafia first set up shop in the States it was pretty much because the police in cities like NYC, Chicago, Philidelphia, etc. didn't really police Italian neighbourhoods thus leaving them vulnerable to robbery, which happened often. The Mafia would then offer their services of proctection to these neighbourhoods for a fee. So, I can see this as being a social positive.
I think it was only when the Mafia branched out to illegal trade like drugs, firearm and prostitution that's when dead bodies start falling due to all of the eventual turf wars from rival gangs. And this pretty much is the situation with gangs now.
The Hell's Angels, once a notorious gang, are pretty much harmless now in Canada, particularly Montreal. Though they are known to distribute some drugs, they have been able to broker peace with other gangs and have helped maintain a ceasefire. Judging by what people have said about accidentally encountering a Hell's Angel member, they sound like the nicest people alive.
PS: When seeing the title of this thread my first thought was "Now what can be so wrong about Scooter Gangs?".
People only join gangs if they have (or plan) to do something illegal.If something is illegal that doesnt mean that's something wrong.Maybe the rule needs changing.
Social association like any other but their activities have a negative character. That's why they are called gangs and not a sect or a business team.
I'm scared of all gangs :p
So am I :( !,,, I'm scared of them 'cause they're dangerous,, at least in my country we haven't seen yet anything positive,,,, there are innocent people killed everyday by these guys fighting each other,,,, they even kill underage kids who don't want to enter in their gang or want to quit when they're inside.
I was watching this program where they say some things are said about them are not true,,,, they say they're like family, they protect each other... but, they also commit these crimes, which are not justified.
xmad,; If something is illegal that doesnt mean that's something wrong.
In most of the cases, something illegal is absolutely wrong !, but there are also some things which governments punish which don't make sense,,, for example; in my country they've just forbbiden people to take someone else in their motorcycles,,, it doesn't make sense,,,,, but some things are forbidden to avoid something worse.
QueenBee
10-05-2006, 19:35
xmad,; If something is illegal that doesnt mean that's something wrong.
But even if something is legal, it doesn't make it right... so it's the other way around aswell. I think it's just a matter of personal opinion. For example I'd like to be able to buy cigarettes legally even though I'm under the age here in Sweden, while in Denmark they sell cigarettes to people from the age 16 and up. But of course that is just my personal opinion as I am a smoker. :dknow:
Legalize weed! :lol:
If something is illegal that doesnt mean that's something wrong.Maybe the rule needs changing.You telling me gangs are there to do good deeds? :rolleyes:
Oh yes, lets legalise murder, what a fantastic friendly act that is :rolleyes:
lets legalise murder, what a fantastic friendly act that is :rolleyes:
Some of you want to murderer anyone who messes with Yulia, so what's the problem :dknow: ???????
I don't want to murder anyone.
I didn't say; Rachel wants to murderer... ,, anyway, I didn't say it seriously,,, :no:
If something is illegal that doesnt mean that's something wrong.Maybe the rule needs changing.
That's true, but as long as it's illegal it will only be done by criminals from gangs, and the protection for these things are given by the same gang ... and not done by payed employees or protected by the police as it would've been if it was legal. As long as criminal syndicates and gangs are doing things it's dangerous and negative .. and therefor wrong. It's not right until it's legalized, which in many cases should be done. :)
This goes for A LOT of things really.
In most of the cases, something illegal is absolutely wrong !,
As you said in most of the cases."most of them isnt all of them."
But even if something is legal, it doesn't make it right
Yeah,I agree with that.
You telling me gangs are there to do good deeds?
Yes and No.
Oh yes, lets legalise murder, what a fantastic friendly act that is
How did you jump to this conclusion??
Legalize weed!
That's one example of things that should be legalized, along with a couple of other narcotics as well, and if you throw in prostitution you've pretty much covered the biggest issues which I think should be legalized today. These are things that are controlled by criminals, and therefor is dangerous and not so good for society = negative and wrong. But that's just because it creates more criminals as it's pushing more money into the criminal networks. Smoking weed and having sex for money itself aren't wrong - we're talking about the freedom of yourself and your right to decide over your own body ... -, but it's the way you're getting it that's wrong. Legalizing it is the right thing, and then you can do these things the right way as well. :)
Oh yes, lets legalise murder, what a fantastic friendly act that is
Murder is pretty serious. I think there are a lot of stuff between what's legal today and doing something as serious as killing someone that are more suitable for this discussion :)
Gangs and mafias are criminal organizations and they will stay criminal organizations, you can legalize whatever you want and that won't change anything to their criminal activities.
People who join gangs and mafias are people who *want* to be criminals, they want to make a lot of money, fast and easy, and they don't care if they have to rob and murder to get what they want.
If you legalize some of the gangs/mafias activities, that won't make their members become honest workers earning an average living from it. If an activity is legal, it's no longer extremely profitable and they will abandon that activity to switch to other illegal activities where they can make loads of money.
Gangs and mafias are criminal organizations and they will stay criminal organizations, you can legalize whatever you want and that won't change anything to their criminal activities.
Well, there are several examples that actually states that if you legalize something that ONLY a criminal organization are dealing with, and there are businesses that will do these things in a secure and proper way, then yes, the criminal activites on that field will go away. Also because a business will have to conquer with the former criminal prices in the beginning. You will get rid of much of the (if not the whole) problem.
There is a "ranch" in Nevada, US, with a legal business of prostitutes. They are employees and work on hours. They check in when they get to work, and strict rules about hygeene and safety are good for the ladies - as they can now go to the police if they get raped while being a prostitute, they have easy access to the equipment and healthcare needed to prevent sexual transfered deseases (as they also get health insurance along with their work aso), and they have working conditions you and me could only dream about.
Girls who choose prostitution would of course choose this alternative before the street. Cause this is a huge selling industry with alot of possibilities. They won't have a problem to get work, as legalization would probably let it grow to new heights. And that's actually good.
If you legalize some of the gangs/mafias activities, that won't make their members become honest workers earning an average living from it. If an activity is legal, it's no longer extremely profitable and they will abandon that activity to switch to other illegal activities where they can make loads of money.
No, that's right, but it will stop them from recruiting new poeple on that field. That's VERY important... when the different sources for recruiting are taken away from the criminal organizations they will suffer a great deal. What you will be left with are the minor criminals who do common criminal stuff - you'll never get rid of them ... but the really big organizations; if you take away their daily income and their source of recruiting they will cease to excist... or in the changing fase be forced to do major robberies - which will always go straight to hell for them ... which leaves us with the minor criminals which honestly isn't a "big" problem.
Of course, these things are easier to do in western countries, as western/industrial countries could easier face some problems in the changing face. But minor changes show that problems go away, they are not created. So I believe we need to do it on a larger scale as well! The modern civilization, human rights and so on, have been shaped by radical changes --- and we should never be afraid to have more of them! :)
PowerPuff Grrl
12-05-2006, 00:42
Interesting conversation you guys have going here, I have to say though that I completely agree with dradeel.
Legalization of prohibited substances obviously won't make honest people out of criminals, I'll agree with you there haku, but I don't think that that it'll get them out of the business altogether either. Illegal substances and activities are freaking lucrative businesses, there's money to be made and gangs already have extensive product knowledge and know precisely which demographic of people to aim for. If ever turned legal they have about 30 years of experience surrounding this venture, that is a massive head start on upstart competition. And sure those earnings will be taxed (good for gov't, btw) and regulations will be placed, I think that's something criminals wouldn't mind, it sure beats the hell out of risking life-in-prisonment sentences or death at the hands police, rivals, or your own gang members.
People who join gangs don't necessarily want to be criminals, they want lots of money and power in the easiest, fastest way possible. If criminal life grants them that, then they'll gladly take it. I'm pretty sure that if current gang members had the opportunity, resources and education of the upper class then they'd probably join the corporate world. I'm not saying, of course, that lower-class people become criminals solely because of their social class, that's bullshit, but that people in the corporate world exude the same criminal behaviour as gangsters so I feel gang members would fit in nicely in the corporate world. Your Jeffery Skillings, Benard Ebbers, Dutch Shell, McDonalds, Nike, etc. all have the same psychotic nature as gangsters except what they do is legal... until it is not.
So bring on the West Coast Crack-Cocaine Corporation!
I would sooo buy stocks in that.
So bring on the West Coast Crack-Cocaine Corporation!
I would sooo buy stocks in that.
Hahahah... hear, hear! :D:D
Your Jeffery Skillings, Benard Ebbers, Dutch Shell, McDonalds, Nike, etc. all have the same psychotic nature as gangsters except what they do is legal... until it is not.
LOL. That's an interesting observation. And quite true at that. I think it all comes down to that fundamental human instinct to prosper no matter what the consequences or how many (sometimes also human) sacrifices and obstacles have to be surpassed. Yet I think there's still some basic difference to criminal gangs and anything that's being brought together legally. Yes, it's true most people use crimina activity to achieve their goals, but there are also people that consider the sheer act of doing something forbiden a drug. A criminal act (beside the obvious possible financial gain) is also a slap in the face to society and that could be a big lure for some individuals. It is one of the basic three phenomenons that contributes to establishments of criminal gangs (besides financial gains and the sense of belonging for those who don't seem to function in a normal society).
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