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QueenBee
14-04-2006, 16:18
I had a discussion with my mom about prostitution and I figured I would ask you guys what you thought about it.

What are your opinions on prostitution? Should it be legal or not?

I personally think prostitution should be legal, if the person decides to sell sexual favors then I don't see why that should be wrong. I mean, it's their body afterall - and they should be able to decide how they want to use it. Maybe it's because I see sex and love as different things - I think sex is just a natural act, and love is an emotion, they are not the same thing and I don't see why sex can't be sold for what it is.

I am against trafficking though, meaning that I am against people being forced into prostitution, that is obviously an awful thing.

I think a person should be able to decide what to do with their body.

Rachel
14-04-2006, 16:37
I don't see the point in a law because it's not as though laws ever stop people doing anything does it?

It should be legal though because many prostitutes get attacked by their customers and end up not reporting it to the police because they are too worried about getting into trouble themselves.

Personally I think prostitution is no different to doing porn, except at least in the porn industry you can pretty much guarantee you won't catch anything as everyone is regually tested. So if the prostitute will only work with protection (i.e condom) then I don't see a problem.

haku
14-04-2006, 16:38
I also think that prostitution should be legal, if people want to earn money that way, it's their right. Strictly speaking, prostitution *is* legal in most European countries anyway, it's "solicitation in public" which is generally illegal (hooking in the street), but advertizing your services on the internet or in newspapers and then service your customers in a private location is totally legal.

QueenBee
14-04-2006, 16:43
It should be legal though because many prostitutes get attacked by their customers and end up not reporting it to the police because they are too worried about getting into trouble themselves.
Strictly speaking, prostitution *is* legal in most European countries anyway, it's "solicitation in public" which is generally illegal (hooking in the street), but advertizing your services on the internet or in newspapers and then service your customers in a private location is totally legal.
I'm not sure if the women (or men, mostly women are prostitutes though) are afraid to speak out here in Sweden or not... but I do know that what they are doing is not considered illegal. It's the people who pay for their favours who are doing the illegal thing (meaning, it's legal to sell yourself but illegal to buy someone else).

I think also many women (again, men also, but mostly women) don't go to the police because their pimps would probably kill them (literally).

There was a lady here in Sweden who worked as a prostitute and she wanted to be treated like any other worker, except her act isn't really considered a job. She went to the police and reported the Sweden's prime minister because she "pays to him", so according to her this means that he is her pimp. And pimpin' ain't legal here, yo.

nath
14-04-2006, 16:45
I agree with you QueenBee.
Think prostitution should be legalized and recognized as a "normal" job.
It exists for several hundreds of years now and it will always exist.

In France, we saw interviews of prostitutes who were arrested sometimes to pass the night to the post of police BUT, in the same time, the government was asking to them Taxes for the money they've earned. :D *French logic!*

Before there were "closed houses". I don't know why they 've closed them.
The result was that the girls went to the street to work and I don't think it's the best thing.

Think too that if it was legalized,may be, it would slow all these horrible traffics, all this violence ...
At least, the girls could report more easily the abuses...

So indeed, what about to replace all the bad and violent pimps by just one single pimp who/which would treat them better in respecting their rights and protecting them from the violence: the State!!

I know...not moral at all..but, in France the State was the owner of the tobacco fabrication and distribution so....what about to improve in the "condemnable world" in becomming the official Pimp?.... :D

PS: sorry ...so slow in writing that I've just repeated the previous posts which were non present when I began to write.

marina
14-04-2006, 16:53
To tell you the truth, I don't have a good answer for this one. I just know that I'd hate for my daughter to ever have to earn a living through sex, so it'd be hard to vote for a law that would allow the daughters of other people do it.

PowerPuff Grrl
14-04-2006, 18:44
Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world; it has been operating under every single form of government known to mankind so it is pretty obvious that regardless of what people do as long as the demand for commitment-free sex is there, it'll still be running. So the real question becomes whether we want the gov't to regulate the industry, creating a safer environment for it or just turn the blind eye on it.

And the latter isn't working, y'all.

Rachel
14-04-2006, 18:52
So the real question becomes whether we want the gov't to regulate the industry, creating a safer environment for it or just turn the blind eye on it. One of the reasons I don't think they want to regulate is because of religious pressure. Coz as far as the churches would be concerned regulating would equal promotiong etc :rolleyes:

PowerPuff Grrl
14-04-2006, 19:09
Yeah because avoiding common sense and sweeping prostitution under the carpet would work out so well, I mean it worked wonders for the child molestation scandal, right?

Rachel
14-04-2006, 19:10
Well, that's the churches idea on common sense, i.e they have none.

freddie
14-04-2006, 19:30
It should be made legal if not for anything else for the sake of the prostitutes. It'll take away all the power from the pimps and actually give ladies the right to proper medicare.

Khartoun2004
14-04-2006, 19:49
Rachel has a good point. In the US I believe the only state where prostitution is legal would be Navada. I think in the US if the government started regualting prostitution and made it legal, then all the fundamentalist groups would flip the fuck out and it would be much like Roe v. Wade.

Personally, I don't agree with prostitution, I feel sad people that have to resort to selling themselves just to live, it doesn't reflect well on a countries economy or government. I also feel sad for people that actually pay a person to fuck them... they can't find someone willing to do it for free? Just go to a night club. However, I still agree that there needs to be laws governing STD testing and to protect the prostitutes from being assaulted.

haku
14-04-2006, 20:34
they can't find someone willing to do it for free? Just go to a night club.Well, it's about the same thing and it's certainly not free, at least not for straight guys. If you go to a club to cruise straight girls just for a quick shag, you'll end up paying everything for the girls (because that's always been the unsaid understanding in those places, guys give money, girls give sex in exchange, it's also a business transaction), and by the end of the evening, you'll have spent more money on the girls than on an average prostitute. So some guys prefer to go to prostitutes, it's the same process, just faster and to the point.

exileut
14-04-2006, 20:43
There was a lady here in Sweden who worked as a prostitute and she wanted to be treated like any other worker, except her act isn't really considered a job. She went to the police and reported the Sweden's prime minister because she "pays to him", so according to her this means that he is her pimp. And pimpin' ain't legal here, yo.

Anyone can get a job at mcdonalds. The only reason to work as a prostitute is you make more money. A lot more money. That would be hard for me. Selling your body to strangers just because it pays better. How do they justify that?

zebu
14-04-2006, 23:36
just cos it has always been done doesnt mean it should be made legal to do it. it sends out the wrong message.

QueenBee
14-04-2006, 23:43
...what's the right message?

forre
14-04-2006, 23:52
...what's the right message?
Do you have The Book? Read it! :D

Lux
14-04-2006, 23:52
i personally would not sell my body. however, that does not mean it is the right choice for everybody. i don't impose this view or any view on others, and when it comes to prostitution, ppl can and should do what they please. whether it's sending out a positive message doesn't mean anything to me because every single action that anyone takes can be interpreted in a positive or negative light. on one hand, it's empowering because it says that women are taking control of their lives and doing with their bodies whatever they please. on the other hand, it is seen as one of the most degrading (if not THE most) means to earn a living. i suppose it's truly up to the individual.

zebu
15-04-2006, 00:10
...what's the right message?

i dont know. but im sure that the message that selling ur body is ok isnt the right one.

Lux
15-04-2006, 00:43
that's the thing..what is the 'right' message is far too interpretive to come to a conclusion. eventually ppl just agree to disagree. and when integrated with law and politics the 'right' message becomes exponentially more convoluted. and with religion, even moreso.

QueenBee
15-04-2006, 00:53
Do you have The Book? Read it!
Oh yes, under the pillow at all times. ;)


i dont know. but im sure that the message that selling ur body is ok isnt the right one.
And that is... why? Some people sell their ideas, others sell their bodies. :D If it's their choice then I don't see why not. It's like strippers, they get paid to dance around half-naked but nobody feels sorry for them unless they are lonely mothers looking for a quick pay.

And meanwhile the pornstars live in their mansions, all happy and what not. :D

freddie
16-04-2006, 16:00
I agree that selling one's body might be morally wrong to today's society, but morality itself borderlines on religion and religion has no place in business nor when determining what's right and wrong. I don't like anykind of moral smugness when it comes to subjects like this. Who are we to judge what people can do with their personal liberties? It has no infulece whatsoever on the greater public good or the decline of it... it's strickly a personal decision what someone might choose to do with their own bodies to make a living. What about professional athletes who dedicate their lives to the world of sports which also becomes their sole money making tool. Aren't they "selling their athletic bodies" to achieve their goals? The only difference in this case is the moral one, which as I stated has no value in question of personal liberties.

zebu
18-04-2006, 23:56
so if we legalize prostitution, we should legalize for example that person can sell whatever organ he or she has, its his body! best would be to have auctions of kidneys so if u have a better one than the other poor ppl ull get more money. and why shouldn't we legalize slavery. if one willingly wants to sell his/her body for a longer period of time or lifetime, to get money to give it to his kids to have a better life. why not? its his free will. right. yeah. this kind of analogy is wonderful.

dradeel
19-04-2006, 01:39
so if we legalize prostitution, we should legalize for example that person can sell whatever organ he or she has, its his body! best would be to have auctions of kidneys so if u have a better one than the other poor ppl ull get more money. and why shouldn't we legalize slavery. if one willingly wants to sell his/her body for a longer period of time or lifetime, to get money to give it to his kids to have a better life. why not? its his free will. right. yeah. this kind of analogy is wonderful.
You're free to decide over your own body. Noone has the right to tell YOU what's best for YOU when YOU want to and have the ability do what YOU want. I wouldn't ever accept anyone to tell me what to do now as I'm 18 and therefor decide 100% over my own life. My parents can advice me, but not boss me.

Yes, today you can actually devote your life into what could almost be called slavery. Ever heard of being a butler? ;)

The market for organs aren't really that big, so people don't really go around buying and selling organs as they do with blood or sperm. There just isn't any way of producing new organs for selling without risking the life of someone. Breeding human beings for their organs just isn't very humane ... and surely noone would do that. But people have the ability to decide if they want an organ given away. You can register yourself as an organ-donor, and as soon as you die, you will be given away to the health-service so that the organs the needed will be used for transplantations (that's the correct word, aye? heh)...

I firmly believe that every human being has the right to decide over themselves, 100%. I strongly believe in the right for everyone to breath and put into their bodies what they want, and to sell sex for money if they wish to do so. Not only will this relief the society for some huuuge criminal problems, take away unnessecary long queues at prisons, but also filter out the lethal drugs and narcotics produced by criminals ... and in that way you'd solve huuuge amounts of health problems.

When talking about prostitution you'd give more rights to the individual prostitutes, cause the criminal connections with pimps and "protection" aren't needed. If one thought about the safety and rights for these individuals, you'd have sooo many problems that would actually go away ... instead we reject to do this, cause a few people spread false propaganda - mostly these are religious people and very conservative politicians.

zebu
19-04-2006, 11:12
Yes, today you can actually devote your life into what could almost be called slavery. Ever heard of being a butler? ;)

lol slaves would be more than happy to be butlers. You missed the point here, when u r a slave u dont have a salary, freedom of moving, u sell all of u, its quite diff form being a butler.

The market for organs aren't really that big, so people don't really go around buying and selling organs as they do with blood or sperm. There just isn't any way of producing new organs for selling without risking the life of someone. Breeding human beings for their organs just isn't very humane ... and surely noone would do that. But people have the ability to decide if they want an organ given away. You can register yourself as an organ-donor, and as soon as you die, you will be given away to the health-service so that the organs the needed will be used for transplantations (that's the correct word, aye? heh)...

thank u for ur organ donor explanation thing. lol i think we r all familiar with that. anyway that has nothing to do with selling organs. ppl sell organs on the black market cos they have no money. so often they die or have serious health problems later, cos they r not treated in regular hospitals. so if prostitutes should have protection from pimps, health insurance etc. why not give the same protection to ppl who sell organ so they can feed their families. maybe state could take a % of the money from the sale of the organ and in return give that person safe removal of his kidney. :D state would have a bigger budget and ppl more money. lovely.

freddie
19-04-2006, 12:05
so if we legalize prostitution, we should legalize for example that person can sell whatever organ he or she has, its his body! best would be to have auctions of kidneys so if u have a better one than the other poor ppl ull get more money. and why shouldn't we legalize slavery. if one willingly wants to sell his/her body for a longer period of time or lifetime, to get money to give it to his kids to have a better life. why not? its his free will. right. yeah. this kind of analogy is wonderful.

It's futile to compare organ selling with prostitution. Sex is something people do everyday. It's like eating and drinking. Having surgeries and removing organs is definitely not an everyday occurence in one's life. Every surgery can be leathal, even if it's just a rutine. The heart could go into cardiac arrest at any moment and despite doctor's best efforts some people die on the operating tables like that. No such worries with sex. It can be a completely benign activity if one is responsible with protection. So whether you like it or not... it still comes down to obsolete moral issues.

QueenBee
19-04-2006, 12:56
I don't think slaves choose slavery... :lol:

and why shouldn't we legalize slavery. if one willingly wants to sell his/her body for a longer period of time or lifetime
when u r a slave u dont have a salary
Plus you just contradicted (is that the expression?) yourself, first you said that slavery should in that case be legalized because people should be able to sell their bodies freely, and the you said that slaves don't even earn any money. And if you sell something - you gain something, so if they're not gaining any money they are selling nothing. They're doing it without any gain for them.

And like freddie said, sex is different than slavery or organ selling. Sex is a natural act, and people do it everyday. We're animals and sex is one of the most important things in our nature (sex and nutrition) - so I personally think that if people want to sell sex then that's fine.

marina
19-04-2006, 12:56
Sex is something people do everyday

Speak for yourself ! :mad:



:)

zebu
19-04-2006, 17:26
I don't think slaves choose slavery... :lol:



Plus you just contradicted (is that the expression?) yourself, first you said that slavery should in that case be legalized because people should be able to sell their bodies freely, and the you said that slaves don't even earn any money. And if you sell something - you gain something, so if they're not gaining any money they are selling nothing. They're doing it without any gain for them.

yeah ancient slaves didnt chose it. i was talking bout modern ones. and no i didnt contradict myself. when u sell urself to be a slave u get the money which presumably poor ppl would give to their families. once u sold urself u dont get paycheck or anything.:)

QueenBee
19-04-2006, 17:42
Oh you mean like that, I get it now. :)
Sad thing is people mostly sell their children... :( I mean, the parents sell their daughters, or their sons, to work.. Then they are paid for their childrenand can continue supporting heir family. Really sad.

I don't see how you would compare this to prostitution though. :laugh: People who sell themselves for slavery gain nothing afterwards... and they themselves usually don't get any money (but their families)

once u sold urself u dont get paycheck or anything.
But if prostitution was legal, you would get a paycheck (well you know what I mean, you would get paid in a fair matter for your job)... and you would do your work because you'd want to, and it would be considered real work, and you wouldn't have to hide or be scared to get caught. I definitely think it should be legal. I mean, whose business is it anyway? When two people have sex for money, nobody is getting hurt, unless of course someone is forced to do it. If it was performed legally and one could choose to be a prostitute, no-one would get hurt. Why exactly do you think prostitution that both parties agree with, is bad? Morals? God? :gigi:

I just think of these people who go to clubs because they wanna have quick sex and forget about the person the day after. For me, it's the same thing except money isn't involved.

dradeel
19-04-2006, 20:02
lol slaves would be more than happy to be butlers. You missed the point here, when u r a slave u dont have a salary, freedom of moving, u sell all of u, its quite diff form being a butler.
Well... I can't think of anyone who would sell their freedoms for money. I mean, you don't do that by choice. It's something you do when you have no choice. You do that cause you're "forced to do so", and then that person who buys you takes advantage of your situation - which is illegal. People have fundemental human rights. Noone wants to sell these without being forced to do so? So when you're in such a situation the society have a responcibility to take care of you.
so if prostitutes should have protection from pimps, health insurance etc. why not give the same protection to ppl who sell organ so they can feed their families.
I didn't say prostitutes should have protection from pimps. I said if you legalized it, and let the prostitutes work under safe enviorments, there wouldn't be any pimps or any criminal league that demanded money from the prostitutes as protection money.

But yeah, I guess you would get something close to a pimp in a system I'd like to have - but it would be an employer, owning a business and having workers who give a service. The prostitutes sign work contracts and what-not all the contracts and deals are called in english between an employer and an employee. Like factory-workers have --- they didn't have any rights at the end of the 1800s, but they do now. :) Why can't prostitutes have the same?

And with prostitues under controled enviorments, you could have a much bigger control of sexual transfered deseases, which would all in all be a very big plus imo. Both for "customers" and the prostitutes. :)
It's futile to compare organ selling with prostitution. Sex is something people do everyday. It's like eating and drinking. Having surgeries and removing organs is definitely not an everyday occurence in one's life.
A very good point. Again I believe that people who takes the risk of selling organs aren't doing so by choice. They do it if they have no choice, and in this case as well; that's when the society have a responcibility to take care of these people.

Obie
19-04-2006, 21:59
Prostitution IS LEGAL!, the fact is that you can't do it wherever you want,,, that's the real problem.

When a prostitute "works" near a school or parks where children are playing,,, there's danger, people who pay for sex are not always the best people, they could hurt children then. And the control of traffic of persons would be even more difficult,,,,,,,,,

EXAMPLE; in Galapagos, an Ecuadorian island, fishers were not allowed to fish sharks,,,,,now they're permitted to keep them ONLY if they accidentally catch them.....the problem is that ACCIDENTS have been more common since then........ When law is weak then something even worse might happen,.

dradeel
19-04-2006, 22:14
Prostitution IS LEGAL!, the fact is that you can't do it wherever you want,,, that's the real problem.
It actually varies from country to country/state to state (if you're in USA). In some it's kinda legal the one way or the other, and in some it isn't legal at all.

In Norway it's illegal to be a pimp, and it's illegal for the prostitutes to gather in bordels. It's not illegal for the prostitutes to sell their services on the streets tho, but it's illegal for a person to buy their services ... I'm pretty sure that's how it is. Heh. And frankly, that pretty much means it's illegal all the way. But I don't want it to be illegal, and I want it to get off the streets, but not into criminally run bordels and stuff :) I'm thinking about the health and well being of the prostitutes, customers and releaving police for a lot of bull shit work. It's time they could've spent on more important cases that they simply haven't got the resources or the time to handle...

When a prostitute "works" near a school or parks where children are playing,,, there's danger
I don't think that's the biggest problem with the trade of sexual services really. Not only do prostitutes want to be descrete about it, but especially customers want to avoid public attention. Schools aren't the best spot for such. And parks here in Norway are mainly dominated by drug-users :laugh:

QueenBee
19-04-2006, 22:15
Prostitution IS LEGAL!
Not everywhere, I don't think...
Here it is illegal to buy sex. Legal to sell it - I'm guessing so that the girls won't get into trouble if they speak up about their pimps or something.

It doesn't really matter if it's legal or not anyway, I was just wondering if you guys thought it should or shouldn't be. :D

dradeel
23-04-2006, 20:24
And now, let me advice everyone to watch: Penn and Tellet: Bullshit, season 4, episode 2 - Prostitution.

Aaah, it's like it was served on a silver plate for this conversation :)

Of course, the one I downloaded was bugged, so I was only able to watch 1 and a half minutes of it. *sigh*. Well, here we go again! hehehe